Author Topic: Lucas a cut above as trim inspires improved Liverpool FC form (Read 196675 times)

woof · « **Reply #1920 on:** August 30, 2009, 04:50:43 am »

Quote from: i_wun_bite on August 30, 2009, 03:22:38 am

would lucas be considered a good player or an average player?

He has improved this season. He doesn't make too many mistakes now. As to the positive contribution to the team, he's certainly not a replacement for Alonso. If Xabi is rated 8.5/10, then I'd rate Lucas a 6/10.

lfc_bhoy · « **Reply #1921 on:** August 30, 2009, 05:44:02 am »

Quote from: woof on August 30, 2009, 04:50:43 am

He has improved this season. He doesn't make too many mistakes now. As to the positive contribution to the team, he's certainly not a replacement for Alonso. If Xabi is rated 8.5/10, then I'd rate Lucas a 6/10.

You're a brave one. Rating a player who had the benefit of starting consistently, regardless of form, over a backup player who's only starting to get regular time.

smurfinaus · « **Reply #1922 on:** August 30, 2009, 06:05:04 am »

After watching the first few games, you can see he is trying to play further forward (seen him ghost into the box a number of times more than last season), however the others arent really on the same wavelength in regards with the 1-2's you can see him try to play - it will be interesting to see how he goes when Aquilani is able to play - both players like 1-2's have a lot of movement & like through balls - although as others at the moment have noted - Lucas doesnt do it a lot due to lack of movement up front or having opposition player in his face. Im actually a bit more concerned about Masch - i know he isnt there for his passing, but pressure from opposition players seems to be affecting him somewhat...lot of back passes..

Art Vandelay · « **Reply #1923 on:** August 30, 2009, 12:17:12 pm »

He could do with a goal. Preferably an important one. Preferably an absolute beauty. I think his confidence would go through the roof, and we'd start to see more from the lad. Wouldn't harm the confidence the other players have in him either, which seems like it could do with a boost.

LIVER · « **Reply #1924 on:** August 30, 2009, 12:58:33 pm »

Quote from: scouselad69 on August 30, 2009, 01:42:29 am

So you´d play Pacheco Instead of Lucas ,Cos you think he shows talent Despite the fact that he´s got No 1st team experience! Honestly words fail me

right so how did Fabregas gain his experience, how did Rooney gain his experience, how did Gerrard gain his experience? by getting chances in the first team! At least bed him in, I can't see him doing worse than Lucas, in fact I'm sure he would have an impact in some of our play.

Crouser · « **Reply #1925 on:** August 30, 2009, 01:11:02 pm »

1st red card on him this season, he really is a replace for Alonso

Twelfth Man · « **Reply #1926 on:** August 30, 2009, 01:22:58 pm »

Quote from: LIVER on August 30, 2009, 12:58:33 pm

right so how did Fabregas gain his experience, how did Rooney gain his experience, how did Gerrard gain his experience? by getting chances in the first team! At least bed him in, I can't see him doing worse than Lucas, in fact I'm sure he would have an impact in some of our play.

How did Babel get his experience? By playing one game then dropped. Perhaps on for 10 minutes in the next. Lucas is Benitez's love child..

LIVER · « **Reply #1927 on:** August 30, 2009, 01:27:02 pm »

lolol he does favour some players i.e. Kuyt, Lucas over others i.e. Keane, Crouch, even Gerrard in the early days! sometimes his stubbornness is bad for him. I would give Aurelio a chance sometimes in midfield, he can spray the ball about and has good technique, also probably the best at set pieces in our squad. Give Pacheco some games in midfield, see how he does, coming on last 20 minutes here and there and starting Carling Cup games, if not then play him in the second striker role.

Hightown Phil · « **Reply #1928 on:** August 30, 2009, 01:50:06 pm »

Pacheco isn't a midfielder you plantpot.

Zizou · « **Reply #1929 on:** August 30, 2009, 01:52:54 pm »

This has probably been mentioned, but it looked to me like the ref had his hand in his pocket to book Davis again before Lucas even went over to him. Bolton were a moaning bunch of pricks yesterday, all over Torres as well..got just what they deserved.

LIVER · « **Reply #1930 on:** August 30, 2009, 01:53:40 pm »

no but I feel he can be in the same mould as Fabregas and he did play in midfield during pre-season and looked good. Stevie G was a defensive mid, now he's a second striker.

liverpooll · « **Reply #1931 on:** August 30, 2009, 01:53:43 pm »

Quote from: LIVER on August 30, 2009, 01:27:02 pm

lolol he does favour some players i.e. Kuyt, Lucas over others i.e. Keane, Crouch, even Gerrard in the early days! sometimes his stubbornness is bad for him. I would give Aurelio a chance sometimes in midfield, he can spray the ball about and has good technique, also probably the best at set pieces in our squad. Give Pacheco some games in midfield, see how he does, coming on last 20 minutes here and there and starting Carling Cup games, if not then play him in the second striker role.

Maybe first you should visit the thread of knee jerk reactions.....

Hightown Phil · « **Reply #1932 on:** August 30, 2009, 02:01:07 pm »

Quote from: LIVER on August 30, 2009, 01:53:40 pm

no but I feel he can be in the same mould as Fabregas and he did play in midfield during pre-season and looked good. Stevie G was a defensive mid, now he's a second striker.

So you want us to play an 18 year old out of position in the first team because you think it might suit him?

You're not the brightest, are you?

LIVER · « **Reply #1933 on:** August 30, 2009, 02:16:53 pm »

what's that go to do with brightness? it's like me saying you are too stupid to see talent...

what's the point of having potential talent if they don't get a chance, how are they meant to develop? surely by playing with and against the top players.

no I'm not saying a starter week in week out, I'm saying give him a chance, so you haven't seen an 18 year old play for a big club before? Oh I forgot, Man U and Arsneal DON'T play players because of their age and DON'T give them a chance.

I can't see Voronin affecting anything, and I would certainly have Pacheco ahead of him and give him a little run out here and there and see how he does, whether it's centre mid or as a second striker.

How is it a knee jerk reaction? I am yet to see a game from Lucas where he has looked anything but average, I'm sorry but I was one of those that were saying he needs games and time, but he is yet to produce. The only time people have said he's looked good is when he actually looked better than his usual average performances but weighing them up against others he still didn't look top 4 quality, in fact I doubt he would get into a top 10 team.

Hazell · « **Reply #1934 on:** August 30, 2009, 02:53:49 pm »

Quote from: LIVER on August 30, 2009, 02:16:53 pm

How is it a knee jerk reaction? I am yet to see a game from Lucas where he has looked anything but average, I'm sorry but I was one of those that were saying he needs games and time, but he is yet to produce. The only time people have said he's looked good is when he actually looked better than his usual average performances but weighing them up against others he still didn't look top 4 quality, in fact I doubt he would get into a top 10 team.

He'd get into Arsenal's midfield and Man Utd's midfieild. Out of interest, how do you rate his performances this season? What's he been doing well? And Poorly?

Tom_B · « **Reply #1935 on:** August 30, 2009, 02:56:16 pm »

Quote from: Hazell on August 30, 2009, 02:53:49 pm

He'd get into Arsenal's midfield and Man Utd's midfieild.

Do you reckon he would? Ahead of Carrick/Fletcher or Fabregas/Denilson?

Not sure myself, but it wouldn't be cut and dry either way.

Crazyhorse7778 · « **Reply #1936 on:** August 30, 2009, 02:58:19 pm »

Don't think he'd get into United's myself, but he's better than Denilson for my money.

LIVER · « **Reply #1937 on:** August 30, 2009, 02:59:54 pm »

that actually made

Quote from: Hazell on August 30, 2009, 02:53:49 pm

He'd get into Arsenal's midfield and Man Utd's midfieild. Out of interest, how do you rate his performances this season? What's he been doing well? And Poorly?

haha! that made me chuckle, seriously.

I do agree that Song and Denilson are average players too, but Arsenal can carry them, also they are missing Nasri, Rosicky, Fabregas and Walcott, all fantastic talents! He wouldn't get near Man U's team either, even Giggs and Scholes are more effective, Fletcher is their version of Kuyt but still has more quality than Lucas and Carrick is very good technically too, they have Hargreaves out injured.

This season his performances, have been consistently average, as they have been since he has joined. He cannot do anything special i.e. score a crucial goal, make an assist, can't tackle. He is very ineffective. I would even play Aurelio ahead of him based on his performance in midfield last season and his overall ability. He is basically using up a space in our team that could be given to someone else.

Even if he manages to have a good game it does not outweigh all the times he has played very average, as anyone can have a good/poor game.

p.s I am not hating on the player, I just think it's about time we stop trying to compete in the league with average players. Especially if there are other's who could get the opportunity to play.

BIGdavalad · « **Reply #1938 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:18:10 pm »

Quote from: Tom_B on August 30, 2009, 02:56:16 pm

Do you reckon he would? Ahead of Carrick/Fletcher or Fabregas/Denilson?

Not sure myself, but it wouldn't be cut and dry either way.

He'd walk into United's. Don't think he'd get into a full strength Chelsea or Arsenal's though.

Peyres · « **Reply #1939 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:19:53 pm »

Lucas can't tackle? Check the stats he's made more successful tackles than Mascherano

kingkenny79 · « **Reply #1940 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:27:28 pm »

between Lucas & Masch so far this season, it was the latter perfomance's that has been not up to standard, poor delivery, poor decision making, shooting despite knowing full well his inability, poor pass, etc

Crazyhorse7778 · « **Reply #1941 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:28:37 pm »

Quote from: Peyres on August 30, 2009, 03:19:53 pm

Lucas can't tackle? Check the stats he's made more successful tackles than Mascherano

Proof that stats are close to worthless.

LIVER · « **Reply #1942 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:30:18 pm »

So your whole argument is that? it's because Mascherano is there to make tackles, Lucas gets the toe pokes in (although he has been making less mistakes this season when tackling), but it doesn't mean he can 'tackle'. Anyway he no real quality and saying he would get into any of the top teams is laughable. when at full strength he wouldn't get into Tottenhams, Evertons, City's, never mind Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea!

I know we need to support our players but blindingly backing them on a message board because he's a Liverpool player is a bit too desperate, it's totally different to the idiots that boo, I wouldn't do that but he isn't Liverpool quality. He isn't the only one either though so I'm not picking him as a scapegoat, but he is the one that keeps getting chance after chance when he offers nothing.

LIVER · « **Reply #1943 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:30:56 pm »

Quote from: kingkenny79 on August 30, 2009, 03:27:28 pm

between Lucas & Masch so far this season, it was the latter perfomance's that has been not up to standard, poor delivery, poor decision making, shooting despite knowing full well his inability, poor pass, etc

That's why it's even more important having someone can do that beside him and Lucas is not the man.

BIGdavalad · « **Reply #1944 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:31:20 pm »

Quote from: LIVER on August 30, 2009, 03:30:18 pm

when at full strength he wouldn't get into Tottenhams, Evertons, City's, never mind Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea!

Which of United's central midfielders are better than him then?

St Skrtel · « **Reply #1945 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:34:11 pm »

First match he was crap, the match later he had potential. Last match he was crap again, but after this match he has potential again. Followthe path he should be on the bench for the next match and rightly so, 4-4-2 should be enough for moving the buses.

Tom_B · « **Reply #1946 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:34:19 pm »

Quote from: BIGdavalad on August 30, 2009, 03:31:20 pm

Which of United's central midfielders are better than him then?

To be fair I reckon Carrick and Hargreaves are definitely, and maybe Scholes and Fletcher.

smicer07 · « **Reply #1947 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:35:09 pm »

I'd say he's better than Fletcher and Hargreaves, and obviously not as good as a younger Scholes.

scouselad69 · « **Reply #1948 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:37:02 pm »

Quote from: LIVER on August 30, 2009, 12:58:33 pm

right so how did Fabregas gain his experience, how did Rooney gain his experience, how did Gerrard gain his experience? by getting chances in the first team! At least bed him in, I can't see him doing worse than Lucas, in fact I'm sure he would have an impact in some of our play.

I don´t think you´re making a good analogy here,Pacheco may have talent But I just wouldn´t be making a Comparison Between him and rooney,Fabregas or Gerrard becos he clearly isn´t at that level yet!Ok bed him in by all means as you suggested Use him in cup games or the odd cameo appearance!But you said you´d use him ahead of Lucas which is a ludicrous suggestion for a team with such high aspirations!There is a reason he´s not even making it onto the bench and it´s nothing to do with Rafa´s stubbornness!!

smicer07 · « **Reply #1949 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:38:00 pm »

Maybe people should just get behind the lad. Old fashioned, I know.

BazC · « **Reply #1950 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:38:10 pm »

Quote from: kingkenny79 on August 30, 2009, 03:27:28 pm

between Lucas & Masch so far this season, it was the latter perfomance's that has been not up to standard, poor delivery, poor decision making, shooting despite knowing full well his inability, poor pass, etc

Sorry, not having that. Mascherano's been brilliant so far in my opinion- he's busting a gut every second of every game to try and cover the role he had last season, parts of Alonso's role and now, he has to be more wary of the attacking fullbacks (compared to Arbeloa and Aurelio, Johnson and Insua are practically wingers).

His passing's been anything but poor. He's probably misplaced as many passes in the 3 games so far as some of our players have in half a game. Sure a lot of his passes go sideways and backwards, but it's upto Gerrard, Lucas, Yossi et all to give him the options to go forward- when they have offered them, he's picked them out.

As for the shooting- yeah it was frustrating against Villa. But it's not like they were shite shots- pretty much all on target, but still fairly comfortable I suppose.

1 for 4 isn't bad.

Also, I fail to understand how knocking one of our players suddenly makes a good argument for someone who's playing well. If the people who think Lucas is playing shite, do yuo really need to come back and say well he's playing better than Mascherano/Gerrard (and as was said last season, Alonso)?

LIVER · « **Reply #1951 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:39:31 pm »

No way even they can effect a game better than Lucas, at least Scholes can make assist and control the tempo here and there. Carrick has more quality overall, Fletcher (who I don't really like) has more quality and is better all round (without being spectacular himself), Hargreaves is better, Giggs even though he's past it can still effect the game and is better on the ball and passing.

He can do nothing better than any of them and overall is not as good as any of them.

smicer07 · « **Reply #1952 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:41:11 pm »

Quote from: LIVER on August 30, 2009, 03:39:31 pm

No way even they can effect a game better than Lucas, at least Scholes can make assist and control the tempo here and there. Carrick has more quality overall, Fletcher (who I don't really like) has more quality and is better all round (without being spectacular himself), Hargreaves is better, Giggs even though he's past it can still effect the game and is better on the ball and passing.

He can do nothing better than any of them and overall is not as good as any of them.

Giggs and Scholes are better than him? On current ability? I want whatever you're smoking.

koolkamal · « **Reply #1953 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:42:23 pm »

Quote from: smicer07 on August 30, 2009, 03:38:00 pm

Maybe people should just get behind the lad. Old fashioned, I know.

Asking for a bit too much there. I'm pretty surprised that non of our supporters have been signed to manage Liverpool because it's absolutely clear that they know more then Benitez, more then his entire staff, more then Dunga.

BazC · « **Reply #1954 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:42:47 pm »

Quote from: LIVER on August 30, 2009, 03:39:31 pm

No way even they can effect a game better than Lucas, at least Scholes can make assist and control the tempo here and there. Carrick has more quality overall, Fletcher (who I don't really like) has more quality and is better all round (without being spectacular himself), Hargreaves is better, Giggs even though he's past it can still effect the game and is better on the ball and passing.

He can do nothing better than any of them and overall is not as good as any of them.

I'd have Lucas in my time over any of that lot. Maybe not Carrick, but probably even him by the end of this season.

He'd walk into Arsenal's team for sure. He's exactly the sort of player that thrives there- he'd replace Denilson no sweat and do better than him as well.

Both of those teams have attackers who are always moving and are very good at playing one touch football. In other words- they suit Lucas' game to a tee.

LIVER · « **Reply #1955 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:43:22 pm »

Quote from: scouselad69 on August 30, 2009, 03:37:02 pm

I don´t think you´re making a good analogy here,Pacheco may have talent But I just wouldn´t be making a Comparison Between him and rooney,Fabregas or Gerrard becos he clearly isn´t at that level yet!Ok bed him in by all means as you suggested Use him in cup games or the odd cameo appearance!But you said you´d use him ahead of Lucas which is a ludicrous suggestion for a team with such high aspirations!There is a reason he´s not even making it onto the bench and it´s nothing to do with Rafa´s stubbornness!!

Well for me, he has shown more quality in pre-season than Lucas has since he's joined us. Bed him in the Carling Cup games but that depends on what team is played, it's not good if its a weak team. Quality players need quality around them to bring the best out of them.

Sure, I support whoever plays, but support isn't going to make him a good enough player, and I wouldn't go around shouting at him during a game, I much rather prefer to vent my frustration in words on a message board, what's wrong with that?.

LIVER · « **Reply #1956 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:46:01 pm »

Quote from: smicer07 on August 30, 2009, 03:41:11 pm

Giggs and Scholes are better than him? On current ability? I want whatever you're smoking.

Score's the winner against Barca and makes a number of good passes and assists still even though he is past it, and the same with Giggs, who was the difference against Arsenal in the end. What has Lucas done?

Maybe that system would suit Lucas better but he still wouldn't excel, you forget that Arsenal are missing FOUR of their regular midfielders, he would have no chance.

Tom_B · « **Reply #1957 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:46:19 pm »

Quote from: smicer07 on August 30, 2009, 03:38:00 pm

Maybe people should just get behind the lad. Old fashioned, I know.

I am behind him, but that doesn't mean I have to think he is better than say Hargreaves. I hope he does make it and cements himself as a first team player.

I am behind Skrtel, but I don't think he is better than Ferdinand.

scouselad69 · « **Reply #1958 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:49:53 pm »

[quote author=LIVER link=topic=242103.msg6069343#msg6069343 date=12516434

Sure, I support whoever plays, but support isn't going to make him a good enough player, and I wouldn't go around shouting at him during a game, I much rather prefer to vent my frustration in words on a message board, what's wrong with that?.
[/quote]Theres nothing wrong with that!But why be so surprised that you´re "venting"on a discussion thread on a forum draws alternative opinions to you´re own?

LIVER · « **Reply #1959 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:50:36 pm »

Yeah I agree, I am behind whoever plays as well but I'm making my points on my opinion on a message board, people need to calm down. lol

It doesn't make you any better of a supporter if you force your opinion and hide the cracks of a player just because your a fan. I disagree with the ones who spout crap during games because that affects the players, talking about it on a message board doesn't. (Unless they're on here, then in which case Lucas step your game up! get extra training!)