Author Topic: This is the year... (mentioned in the Sunday Times)  (Read 43903 times)

Offline -HH-

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #120 on: July 28, 2008, 09:52:16 pm »
u watch same thing will happen this year man u and chelsea will kill u in the league and next season u will all be on here writing on the optimism posts.....well good luck with that guys......... if u get rafa out u may have a chance to turn things around

We finished 11 points off top last season, and 9 points off Chelsea. If that's NOT close (as you claim) then how come we're midtable when we're 11 points ahead of the team in 5th?

We have some good, knowledgeable Hammers here. Which makes it a pity that you should come here and show the other side of things. Shame.
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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #121 on: July 28, 2008, 10:26:29 pm »
Hi guys, i'm a United fan, intrested to see how you think your strongest 11 now stack's up against ours, as I can see some of you are quite confident.

Reina vs Sar: Not much to choose here. United fans say sar, Liverpool fans Reina. Reina is much younger and will probably improve further, while we will need to asses a replacement soon. As it stands though i'd say a draw.

Carragher vs Brown: You guy's hold carragher in very high regard. I might be wrong putting him in at right back, but i'll leave it to you to correct me on that because I can't see him at CB for you, yet he is a very influential player who benefits your team. As far as the player comparison goes it's Brown comfortably for me. He did an excellant job for us last year, where as I can see Carragher getting repeatedly exposed.

Skrtel Agger vs Ferdinand Vidic: What I believe will become a very good pairing for you at the back hasn't had the oppurtunity to form a partnership. It would be a tad presumptious to think they will be as good as or better than the best pairing in Europe.

Evra vs Dossena or Degen (forget which one is LB): Up against Evra though, not a chance. Evra is one of the finest LB's in the world, Dossena or Degen as it stands are not.

So in conclusion I think we are currently quite a bit better man for man, but you have good potential in a new looking back line for next season. Benitez also has a good record with creating a solid foundation, so you could be very strong in this area. I especially like the potential of your new CB pairing. I'd like to know what you guys think of the back line comparison. I'd be happy to discuss other area's to, unless you guys just want to slaughter me for this post.

Offline kiwikopit

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #122 on: July 29, 2008, 04:19:41 am »
in a way the manc has a point. but when you compare the depth in the two squads we have it over them in a massive way.
for so many years now teams have had to rely on depth in the premier league and i think this is the year that we have the best depth in the league and its what will win us our 1st premier league title.

Offline dfdave12

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #123 on: July 29, 2008, 04:30:12 am »
I'm sorry but I won't be drawn into saying "this is our year" like so many other people. Lets just see how we start, yeah?

Offline i_wun_bite

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #124 on: July 29, 2008, 04:50:06 am »
I'm sorry but I won't be drawn into saying "this is our year" like so many other people. Lets just see how we start, yeah?

Agree. I'm not too confident in saying that "this is our year". We have not beaten any of the other top 4 teams on a more regular basis before i say it will be our year. But i do think we seem stronger than any of our teams in the past 8 years. I think we should be able to put a better challenge this year and maybe contending for the title... but winning it seems beyond us for now.

Offline i_wun_bite

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #125 on: July 29, 2008, 05:11:36 am »
Hi guys, i'm a United fan, intrested to see how you think your strongest 11 now stack's up against ours, as I can see some of you are quite confident.

Reina vs Sar: Not much to choose here. United fans say sar, Liverpool fans Reina. Reina is much younger and will probably improve further, while we will need to asses a replacement soon. As it stands though i'd say a draw.

Carragher vs Brown: You guy's hold carragher in very high regard. I might be wrong putting him in at right back, but i'll leave it to you to correct me on that because I can't see him at CB for you, yet he is a very influential player who benefits your team. As far as the player comparison goes it's Brown comfortably for me. He did an excellant job for us last year, where as I can see Carragher getting repeatedly exposed.

Skrtel Agger vs Ferdinand Vidic: What I believe will become a very good pairing for you at the back hasn't had the oppurtunity to form a partnership. It would be a tad presumptious to think they will be as good as or better than the best pairing in Europe.

Evra vs Dossena or Degen (forget which one is LB): Up against Evra though, not a chance. Evra is one of the finest LB's in the world, Dossena or Degen as it stands are not.

So in conclusion I think we are currently quite a bit better man for man, but you have good potential in a new looking back line for next season. Benitez also has a good record with creating a solid foundation, so you could be very strong in this area. I especially like the potential of your new CB pairing. I'd like to know what you guys think of the back line comparison. I'd be happy to discuss other area's to, unless you guys just want to slaughter me for this post.

Reina vs EVS - Even stevens. But as u mentioned EVS will not improve any further but as for Reina, he is only 25 (will be 26 in a months time) and is still young. There is still alot more room for him to improve. GKs usually peak around 30.

Degan/Abby/Finnan vs Brown - honestly not too sure who will start at right back. Degan is a relative unknown. Abby looks to be heading back to Spain for personal reasons. Finnan maybe traded to Villa for Barry. Let's use Carra as RB then. I think Carra's lack of pace will leave him exposed to the quicker and technically gifted wingers but what he lacks for pace, Carra has determination and concentration. Brown has the pace but i do believe that he suffers from a lapse of concentration once in a while. At RB or CB, I will not take Brown over Carra on any day. I think you will feel that same about not taking Carra over Brown.

Skrtel Agger vs Ferdinand Vidic: You win. We have not had the chance to see both Skrtel and Agger together on a competitive basis. Based on that alone, there can be no argument that this CB pairing is definately better than Ferdinand and Vidic. But if we are talking about the potiental, I think Skrtel and Agger has it to equal or even better the pairing of Ferdinand and Vidic. Agger and Ferdinand will be considered the similar type of players, cultured defenders, I think Agger's distribution and control of the ball isn't any worse than Ferdinand but he does pack in wicked shots from distance. Vidic and Skrtel will be like the tough as rock no nonsense defenders - however Skrtel's distribution of the ball is pretty decent. Better than Vidic i would say.

Dossena/Aurelio vs Evra - Dossena is an unknown, at least to me. Evra wins for now.

Bottomline: I think your defence as it is now is stronger than ours. But we definately have the potiential to better yours.

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #126 on: July 29, 2008, 06:14:49 am »
Hi guys, i'm a United fan, intrested to see how you think your strongest 11 now stack's up against ours, as I can see some of you are quite confident.

So in conclusion I think we are currently quite a bit better man for man, but you have good potential in a new looking back line for next season. Benitez also has a good record with creating a solid foundation, so you could be very strong in this area. I especially like the potential of your new CB pairing. I'd like to know what you guys think of the back line comparison. I'd be happy to discuss other area's to, unless you guys just want to slaughter me for this post.
The point of the original post was to look at our defence from an attacking perspective because we have been pretty stingy at the back over the past few years.  The reason some of us are more confident this term is because the new full backs, together with Agger and Skrtel, give us more going forward from the back than in the past.


Offline Danny_

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #127 on: July 29, 2008, 06:53:04 am »
Now that we have keane, we have some real firepower up front.   We could do it this year but it depends on our start.  If we get a good start and everyone stays fit, then yes, we could do it.  I'm not saying we will but we have a chance.

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #128 on: July 29, 2008, 07:00:27 am »
This is a very important year, and we have to get to 19 before United get to 18.

Too early to see how the new editions will fit in, but we have definitely made improvements, we just need to be consistent, kill teams off when we are 1 up, and more importantly get the better of United, Chelsea, Everton and Arsenal home and away. The rest is a piece of piss ;)

Offline -HH-

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #129 on: July 29, 2008, 07:21:19 am »
Hi guys, i'm a United fan, intrested to see how you think your strongest 11 now stack's up against ours, as I can see some of you are quite confident.

Reina vs Sar: Not much to choose here. United fans say sar, Liverpool fans Reina. Reina is much younger and will probably improve further, while we will need to asses a replacement soon. As it stands though i'd say a draw.

Carragher vs Brown: You guy's hold carragher in very high regard. I might be wrong putting him in at right back, but i'll leave it to you to correct me on that because I can't see him at CB for you, yet he is a very influential player who benefits your team. As far as the player comparison goes it's Brown comfortably for me. He did an excellant job for us last year, where as I can see Carragher getting repeatedly exposed.

Skrtel Agger vs Ferdinand Vidic: What I believe will become a very good pairing for you at the back hasn't had the oppurtunity to form a partnership. It would be a tad presumptious to think they will be as good as or better than the best pairing in Europe.

Evra vs Dossena or Degen (forget which one is LB): Up against Evra though, not a chance. Evra is one of the finest LB's in the world, Dossena or Degen as it stands are not.

So in conclusion I think we are currently quite a bit better man for man, but you have good potential in a new looking back line for next season. Benitez also has a good record with creating a solid foundation, so you could be very strong in this area. I especially like the potential of your new CB pairing. I'd like to know what you guys think of the back line comparison. I'd be happy to discuss other area's to, unless you guys just want to slaughter me for this post.

These kind of comparisons are pointless. You were the better side in the league over the past few seasons, we're playing catch up. Impoving player for player will help, but it's as much about mentality and even luck across the season and no-one can say for sure how that will go.
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Offline Red number seven

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #130 on: July 29, 2008, 09:26:59 am »
Hi guys, i'm a United fan, intrested to see how you think your strongest 11 now stack's up against ours, as I can see some of you are quite confident.

Reina vs Sar: Not much to choose here. United fans say sar, Liverpool fans Reina. Reina is much younger and will probably improve further, while we will need to asses a replacement soon. As it stands though i'd say a draw.

Carragher vs Brown: You guy's hold carragher in very high regard. I might be wrong putting him in at right back, but i'll leave it to you to correct me on that because I can't see him at CB for you, yet he is a very influential player who benefits your team. As far as the player comparison goes it's Brown comfortably for me. He did an excellant job for us last year, where as I can see Carragher getting repeatedly exposed.

Skrtel Agger vs Ferdinand Vidic: What I believe will become a very good pairing for you at the back hasn't had the oppurtunity to form a partnership. It would be a tad presumptious to think they will be as good as or better than the best pairing in Europe.

Evra vs Dossena or Degen (forget which one is LB): Up against Evra though, not a chance. Evra is one of the finest LB's in the world, Dossena or Degen as it stands are not.

So in conclusion I think we are currently quite a bit better man for man, but you have good potential in a new looking back line for next season. Benitez also has a good record with creating a solid foundation, so you could be very strong in this area. I especially like the potential of your new CB pairing. I'd like to know what you guys think of the back line comparison. I'd be happy to discuss other area's to, unless you guys just want to slaughter me for this post.

I have been doing man to man comparisons with my manc mate every summer for the last decade, some years we have edged it, some years you have. We haven't won a title, you've won loads. I'm not sure how relevant they are!

Having said that, I agree with your assessment except Reina, who I think is far better than VDS.

RB is a relative weakness for both sides. If it were the Finnan of 2 years ago I would say he edged it, but as it stands, I have to say Brown is better than anyone we've got there (unless Degen surprises me)

LB Dossena is unproven. If he is close to Evra I will be delighted.

CB Agger is an absolute Rolls Royce but I can't hand on heart say he has so far proven he is as good as Ferdinand, who I htink is probably Europe's best defender. Agger is very quick and is possibly an even better ball player than Ferdinand - we shall see. Not sure who'll play with Agger, but, again, can't say Carra is as good as Vidic and Skrtel is still far too raw to compete (potentially similar player, though).

Rest of the side, I think we actually edge. The 'match up' system takes Ronaldo's total class out of the equation (which is one reason player to player match ups don't really work - Ronaldo only scores one point in this where he is about 50% of your attack and was the worlds best player last season)

What are the match ups?

I would suggest;

Mascherano v Hargreaves
Alonso (?Barry) v Carrick
Torres v Tevez
Keane v Rooney
Gerrard v Scholes
Babel v Ronaldo

I would only give you as a definite Ronaldo, and Rooney and Carrick possibles. Ronaldo would win against whoever you matched him up to, though, so as I say it is artificial.

Also it doesn't take into account United's winning habit and mentality or their ability to manipulate officials into stupid sendings-off!

Difficult because we played different systems, and noone's sure how we'll play this year with the signing of Keane.
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Offline timiano

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #131 on: July 29, 2008, 09:37:16 am »
All I can say about this season's campaign, is that there are goals-a-plenty. Defenders will concentrate on Torres at their peril, with such attacking prowess coming from Keane, Gerrard and Babel supporting.

If we stay tight at the back like previous to last year, we will almost certainly be challenging come next May. Win it? Not sure, but we'll certainly be in contention.

Offline Perspective

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #132 on: July 29, 2008, 10:27:18 am »
Reina vs EVS - Even stevens. But as u mentioned EVS will not improve any further but as for Reina, he is only 25 (will be 26 in a months time) and is still young. There is still alot more room for him to improve. GKs usually peak around 30.

Degan/Abby/Finnan vs Brown - honestly not too sure who will start at right back. Degan is a relative unknown. Abby looks to be heading back to Spain for personal reasons. Finnan maybe traded to Villa for Barry. Let's use Carra as RB then. I think Carra's lack of pace will leave him exposed to the quicker and technically gifted wingers but what he lacks for pace, Carra has determination and concentration. Brown has the pace but i do believe that he suffers from a lapse of concentration once in a while. At RB or CB, I will not take Brown over Carra on any day. I think you will feel that same about not taking Carra over Brown.

Skrtel Agger vs Ferdinand Vidic: You win. We have not had the chance to see both Skrtel and Agger together on a competitive basis. Based on that alone, there can be no argument that this CB pairing is definately better than Ferdinand and Vidic. But if we are talking about the potiental, I think Skrtel and Agger has it to equal or even better the pairing of Ferdinand and Vidic. Agger and Ferdinand will be considered the similar type of players, cultured defenders, I think Agger's distribution and control of the ball isn't any worse than Ferdinand but he does pack in wicked shots from distance. Vidic and Skrtel will be like the tough as rock no nonsense defenders - however Skrtel's distribution of the ball is pretty decent. Better than Vidic i would say.

Dossena/Aurelio vs Evra - Dossena is an unknown, at least to me. Evra wins for now.

Bottomline: I think your defence as it is now is stronger than ours. But we definately have the potiential to better yours.

All good point's. Can't really dis agree with any of that. As I stated Skrtel Agger is a CB pairing with the potential to be one of the best around, however it will be intresting to see how well they convert that potential into performances.

Offline Perspective

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #133 on: July 29, 2008, 10:34:02 am »
I have been doing man to man comparisons with my manc mate every summer for the last decade, some years we have edged it, some years you have. We haven't won a title, you've won loads. I'm not sure how relevant they are!

Having said that, I agree with your assessment except Reina, who I think is far better than VDS.

RB is a relative weakness for both sides. If it were the Finnan of 2 years ago I would say he edged it, but as it stands, I have to say Brown is better than anyone we've got there (unless Degen surprises me)

LB Dossena is unproven. If he is close to Evra I will be delighted.

CB Agger is an absolute Rolls Royce but I can't hand on heart say he has so far proven he is as good as Ferdinand, who I htink is probably Europe's best defender. Agger is very quick and is possibly an even better ball player than Ferdinand - we shall see. Not sure who'll play with Agger, but, again, can't say Carra is as good as Vidic and Skrtel is still far too raw to compete (potentially similar player, though).

Rest of the side, I think we actually edge. The 'match up' system takes Ronaldo's total class out of the equation (which is one reason player to player match ups don't really work - Ronaldo only scores one point in this where he is about 50% of your attack and was the worlds best player last season)

What are the match ups?

I would suggest;

Mascherano v Hargreaves
Alonso (?Barry) v Carrick
Torres v Tevez
Keane v Rooney
Gerrard v Scholes
Babel v Ronaldo

I would only give you as a definite Ronaldo, and Rooney and Carrick possibles. Ronaldo would win against whoever you matched him up to, though, so as I say it is artificial.

Also it doesn't take into account United's winning habit and mentality or their ability to manipulate officials into stupid sendings-off!

Difficult because we played different systems, and noone's sure how we'll play this year with the signing of Keane.

True, you can't really judge man for man. It's intresting to see players pitted next to each other like that. You certainly have some strength in midfield and attack now. In previous years Liverpool teams always looked relatively weak on paper. However with the likes of Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres, Agger, Skrtel you have some top class players littered throughout the team now. Dare I say a team that might well finally challenge. However that said, you will need Degen, Dossena, Keane, Babel etc to show they can cut it, and help out and undoubtedly top class core.

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #134 on: July 29, 2008, 11:59:00 am »
Top, top article, hilarious and inspiring. Well done L6. I'm not quite as optimistic as you, but I have to say I've been quietly confident for most of this close season. We're not getting quite the backing we should be, lots of things are still in the crapper, Rafa has no reason to be staying as loyal as he is...yet the signings so far seem to me to be in the right direction, Rafa seems bizarrely happy and quietly confident, as a team we are known to respond well to adversity.

I wouldn't say this is our year just yet, but we can do it, our rivals aren't yet strengthened to the extent I feared, and we have every chance of a trophy or two. I thought I'd feel terrible after the Manc double, but it's almost like the worst has happened and in a strange way the pressure's off. All the media attention should be on Fergie/Scolari and Wenger, who all have something to prove, live up to, whereas no-one will be expecting us to do that well, which means we will get some time off from intense scrutiny, like Arsenal did last season. Plus we have a very young side, that has now had some useful experience added to it.
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Offline JCLFC

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #135 on: July 29, 2008, 12:52:06 pm »
A cracking read and defo no harm in being optimistic.
I think Keane is a cracking signing, granted its a fair few quid - but unfortunately thats the way it is nowadays. But at the end of the day I look at it player for player, Crouch goes - Keane comes. Does it make us stronger, I think it does.
He will play off Torres better, always puts a shift in and should defenders make the mistake of following Torres leaving Keane free - he knows where the goal is.
I think Barry would add a natural balance to the middle of the park, he can also cross the fucker, which is something we have missed for years. An yeah he does the simple thing easy. So again I think he would be another good buy, would still like Xabi to stay though.
If Arbeloa goes it will be all in we have only actually spent 6/7 million, so the funds are feasibly still there - you would hope.

As far as the chrimbo pressies go, I never had a space hopper - that still agrieves me!

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #136 on: July 29, 2008, 05:28:09 pm »
Finding inspiration and indeed some kind of solace in the words of George Michael indicates that you may well be teetering on the edge of insanity.

'Last Christmas...'



Enjoyable read, but if I had a penny for every time I heard, 'this is our year', I'd have £5.63.

Offline lunnylad

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #137 on: July 29, 2008, 05:28:14 pm »
Don't even try to say that when you look at this team top to bottom you don't feel much more comfortable if we get in the players we are looking at.

I'd be more comfortable, but parts of that post don't ring true to me. Particularly about the 7 subs we might have. Babel v Eagles? Compare apples to apples - how about Anderson or Nani? or more likely Giggs this year. Or talking about a cart horse like Ben Haim? Agreed - he's shit. But Bosingwa & Deco aren't, you know, the 2 quality signings they brought in?

Now, don't get me wrong here - I am staunchly a red, and I want number 19 as much as the next man...BUT, let's be realistic here - to make the jump from 4th to 1st is going to mean the current crop of players perform way beyond what they've shown themselves to be capable of over a full prem season. I am optimistic (honest) but I am also cautious - I've seen too many false dawns, and I guess that's what I'm trying to say. It was a fantastic post, the problem is it reminds me of so many others from the start of 'this year' seasons....

YNWA
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good luck to Rafa, where the fuck's Keane?....

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #138 on: July 29, 2008, 05:32:02 pm »
I think people have misinterpreted the 'this is our year...' claim. It is only my personal belief and a massive hunch that we'll win the title this season and the reason I wrote this is because I found that feeling rare, as I've only thought that ONCE in the past fourteen/fifteen years.

Don't take this article as a massive 'arrrr ay we'll defo win the league, we're boss', just a quietly confident lad's ramblings in hope and possible expectation.

Offline Old No7

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #139 on: July 29, 2008, 05:36:37 pm »
great post.

However, can we stop saying this is our year, i've heard it so many times over the years, its becoming a joke.

Not that I want to be pessamistic, i just favour an approach of cautious optimism

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #140 on: July 29, 2008, 05:39:09 pm »
I entitled it 'this is the year' as opposed to 'this is our year' for a reason... ;)

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #141 on: July 29, 2008, 05:43:29 pm »
Damn you L6 Red, and that cracking thread by Royhendo has got me all excited again.  :)

Offline Kerem

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #142 on: July 29, 2008, 05:47:50 pm »
Liverpool do have a very strong squad this year. Will be fun to watch.
I really think this year will be a record breaking year for Torres.
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Offline Old No7

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #143 on: July 29, 2008, 05:50:49 pm »
I entitled it 'this is the year' as opposed to 'this is our year' for a reason... ;)

a good point well made

Offline Jacketh

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #144 on: July 29, 2008, 06:06:00 pm »
I can see the Ronaldo Tevez Rooney type trio being applied iwth Gerrard Torres Keane.

Manchester United have expierience, there teams knows how to win the league. Its that simple, they can grind a 1-0 away or slaughter a team 3-0 at home, much like what they did to us last year. IF we can beat United at anfield this season.. because its an early game in the season it could give us the major boost we need, to start and believe. For me its not about player vs player its about squad v squad. This are long seaons we play and the top teams must have good replacement to call upon. I believe we have the best centre backs in the league, we have 4 top quality players who could arguably get into any side in europe.  In our midfield we have a few world class players, ie Gerrard Mascher, both of whom can be match winners. We have a young starlet in Ryan Babel who has shown sights of brilliance and i am looking forward to see him develop.

Now, on the issue of the right side. For me i believe kuyt can do a good job there this season, he will have a good right back supporting him going forward and he will give 110%. Plus we have some great backups in Xabi, Yossi and Lucas, I believe our midfield is the 3rd best in the league behind United and Chelsea although we can outplay any midfield at our best. Our strikers have always been an issue, although now we suddenly seem gifted in the area. Torres, Keane, N'Gog, Voroning and Nemeth all have the ability to score goals. In my opinion we have the best striker in europe in Torres and we may have found the perfect partner in Keane. Along with Nemeth, N'Gog and Voronin for back up we look quite nice in this department.

Overall I believe we have a squad who are definately capable of challenging for the title, aslong as we can keep up with the Uniteds and Chelseas we will be in with a shout, and who knows the premiership might have a new home. As far as im concernced United and Chelsea are the favourites, but that suites us. We are the biggest underdog.. Istanbul and Athen.. who'd of thought it.

With some passion and belief we can win the league, so lets take our vitamins and say our prayers.

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Offline t0m

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #145 on: July 29, 2008, 06:06:41 pm »
I'm sorry but I won't be drawn into saying "this is our year" like so many other people. Lets just see how we start, yeah?
i totaly agree. we all could all be big headed and say yep were going to get number 19. and i hope we do. but i think we should take one game at a time.. and lets see what happends
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Offline zarababe

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #146 on: July 29, 2008, 09:32:46 pm »
this is the season - believe believe - i do
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Offline Redshadow77

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #147 on: July 30, 2008, 03:10:30 am »
It's not a matter of squad depth and/or buying another player or being the 'last piece of the jigsaw' or as certain idiot radio/tv presenters who are former players (ahem Paul Merson, Cough Alan Brazil) put it being 2 or 3 top class players short of the league title.

No, what is wrong with us - What is always wrong with us is our mentality - Consider;  Since 1990 when we last won the league, there's been at least FIVE occasions when we've started so well you could only see us winning the league in 1990/1991 (started with 9 straight league wins), 1996/1997 (when we started like a house on fire and were actually top at Christmas), 2001/2002 (when we right in contention until a horrible period in December), 2002/2003 (when we got to and remained top until that awful winless period began in Mid-November) and last season (when until the Portsmouth game no one got near us).  After those starts though a horrible combination of injuries, loss of confidence due to unlucky defeats and/or loss of form combined to rob us of our momentum and we never looked like the same team.

It's also a fact that had 2005/2006 started in October (after which we had TWO runs of 10 straight Premier League wins in a row) OR had we won just FOUR more games last season then we could have won either of those league titles quite comfortably WHATEVER the other three did.  Why didn't we? One word - Mentality.

United I am ashamed to say have it, Chelsea have it (although they bought it) and Arsenal until 2004 (ironically their invincible year) had it; WE have not - the It of which I speak? That dead eyed certainty that a home banker win IS going to be OUR win, the knowledge that we WILL win a game no matter what, that NONE of our title rivals are safe no matter how many points we are behind them (ala us in 81/82 or United in 2002/2003 not much difference is there? Both came from more than 10 points back to win the league BOTH under the 3 points for a win rule - so it can be done).  That is what Liverpool are missing and haven't had since the very start of the 1990's and when we get that back? THEN and only then will we reclaim the league title.  The best way to do it of course is for Rafa' to just let the team play as he does in the CL where we DO have that dead eyed certainty of which I speak (we're the best English team IN EUROPE by a mile and have been since 2001).  But for some reason he hasn't done that until now - the other way of claiming back what I call 'the aura' is to fill the team with captains and/or strong minded individuals who can think for themselves and who KNOW how to win the game or there own whatever the position. 

Rafa' now appears to be doing this - will it work? Who knows? But the fact we lost less games than United last season and were victories over Chelsea (twice), Arsenal (twice), Villa (H) and Spurs (H) from winning the league (any 4 would have done it).  Suggests it IS working - Maybe the player we needed this season wasn't the FINAL piece of the jigsaw as certain idiots elsewhere have put it but the RIGHT PIECES and in a creative defender whose strong and quick from the start of the season (Agger) and an inside forward to strike fear into those trying to close down Torres, Babel and Gerrard (Keane of course) Maybe we've found the RIGHT PIECES - Barry? Maybe he'd be good, maybe not but Alonso's form or lack of it last year wasn't our problem - Our DEFENCE was - we started games well plenty of times but how often did we show the necessary professionalism/MENTALITY/aura to finish the game and the foes off? Not often enough as the table shows.  We need to remedy that this year and maybe the likes of Keane and Agger playing a BIG part will help with that.  The other thing we need is the fans treating EVERY league game like a CL big night to start scaring EVERYONE who comes to Fortress Anfield again and a bit of humility (i.e. one game at a time rather than 'win it Rafa or else'). 

Seriously, do some of the idiots who post on here and say title challenge or else, win it or else - He's had long enough etc and all the other crap they spout seriously BELIEVE that WHEN we won the league as of right, year in - year out (and despite only being 30 I've seen us win EIGHT league titles so YES it DID happen, and it will again) think that the managers got that kind of crap from idiot know-all fans? Of course not, they simply said we'll take it one match at a time and last season is history now let's worry about THIS year - So before you go getting all jealous of the Manc filth and their idiot fans boasting and bragging about last year - REMEMBER - that's history now and it's about time we made some more of that or our record will be it (history) if we carry on turning on our own - "A divided house cannot stand alone";  You should ALL remember that and re the Mancs "those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know" - If they talk to much, let them - it just shows them up as idiots - YOU don't want that do you? So let them be ridiculed - and who knows? Maybe it'll be US ridiculing them - if we're humble, professional and above all CONSISTENT enough this year, you never know..........................


PS To the West Ham fan - read the stats above - there's already TWO occasions when despite the odds stacked against us we've come within 2 wins (over Chelsea in 05/06) or 4 wins (take your pick from all our wonderous draws last year) of winning the damn thing AND we already have FA Cup and CL winners medals AND runners up medals since Rafa' got here - not so bad a record when you look it like that is it? A Hammer giving US advice on managers? As if LOL........

PPS The United fan;  You may have the best defence but WE have the best goalie - he's won the Golden Gloves in the past THREE seasons and thus is indisputably better than VDS and Skrtel and Agger are younger that means they WILL be better than Rio and Vidic (who only have 2/3 seasons left as a top level partnership) it's a matter of time that's all.

As to Dossena - I scarce think you can knock an ITALIAN (you know - they invented defending almost?) as worse than a Frenchman (Evra) after the pathetic French showing in Euro 2008.  Although I'll give you Degen as he's almost wholly untried yet.

Funny how you never mentioned midfield though isn't it?  You want to compare Babel to Nani? Babel got 11 goals last year - How many did Nani get?  Mascherano is FAR better than Hargreaves in the holding role and Gerrards the closest thing in  the PL to what Scholes WAS;  Carrick and Alonso I'd say is a draw although the Spaniard is by far the better passer and should we get Barry, he scores far more than Carrick as well. The only CLEAR advantage you have here is Ronaldo and he's hardly going to be that on crutches for 3 months is he?  Either way, we'll now finally look at your other missing area;  This is my favourite area;

Upfront: You also missed THIS area; Although I can guess why as with TORRES - We have a player who is better than ALL of yours upfront (Rooney, Tevez AND Saha), with Keane we have at least the equal of Tevez and when played upfront consistently Kuyt is also his equal (you don't remember his first season with 17 League goals do you? and last year he got 11).  Incidentally WHEN Babel's played upfront consistently as he will be soon, we might just have another Ronaldo on our hand's which will be fun.  Saha's a good bench option for you (as Crouch was for us last year and Kuyt will be prob') but he's always injured.  As to Rooney;  He's better than our other strikers but he's not better than Torres and Keane can score almost as many which should make next year interesting to say the least.  So no, you DON'T have it over us in any way anymore except one and that's mentality and Who knows? we may even fix that this year, which should make things interesting to say the least.............................

The Japanese say ''Those who know don't talk while those who TALK? Don't know'';  Maybe Everton, Chelsea and United fans should try listening sometimes.......................

Offline vicgill

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #148 on: July 30, 2008, 02:18:26 pm »
Hi guys, i'm a United fan, intrested to see how you think your strongest 11 now stack's up against ours, as I can see some of you are quite confident.

Reina vs Sar: Not much to choose here. United fans say sar, Liverpool fans Reina. Reina is much younger and will probably improve further, while we will need to asses a replacement soon. As it stands though i'd say a draw.

Carragher vs Brown: You guy's hold carragher in very high regard. I might be wrong putting him in at right back, but i'll leave it to you to correct me on that because I can't see him at CB for you, yet he is a very influential player who benefits your team. As far as the player comparison goes it's Brown comfortably for me. He did an excellant job for us last year, where as I can see Carragher getting repeatedly exposed.

Skrtel Agger vs Ferdinand Vidic: What I believe will become a very good pairing for you at the back hasn't had the oppurtunity to form a partnership. It would be a tad presumptious to think they will be as good as or better than the best pairing in Europe.

Evra vs Dossena or Degen (forget which one is LB): Up against Evra though, not a chance. Evra is one of the finest LB's in the world, Dossena or Degen as it stands are not.

So in conclusion I think we are currently quite a bit better man for man, but you have good potential in a new looking back line for next season. Benitez also has a good record with creating a solid foundation, so you could be very strong in this area. I especially like the potential of your new CB pairing. I'd like to know what you guys think of the back line comparison. I'd be happy to discuss other area's to, unless you guys just want to slaughter me for this post.


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Offline Perspective

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #149 on: July 30, 2008, 04:59:19 pm »
It's not a matter of squad depth and/or buying another player or being the 'last piece of the jigsaw' or as certain idiot radio/tv presenters who are former players (ahem Paul Merson, Cough Alan Brazil) put it being 2 or 3 top class players short of the league title.

No, what is wrong with us - What is always wrong with us is our mentality - Consider;  Since 1990 when we last won the league, there's been at least FIVE occasions when we've started so well you could only see us winning the league in 1990/1991 (started with 9 straight league wins), 1996/1997 (when we started like a house on fire and were actually top at Christmas), 2001/2002 (when we right in contention until a horrible period in December), 2002/2003 (when we got to and remained top until that awful winless period began in Mid-November) and last season (when until the Portsmouth game no one got near us).  After those starts though a horrible combination of injuries, loss of confidence due to unlucky defeats and/or loss of form combined to rob us of our momentum and we never looked like the same team.

It's also a fact that had 2005/2006 started in October (after which we had TWO runs of 10 straight Premier League wins in a row) OR had we won just FOUR more games last season then we could have won either of those league titles quite comfortably WHATEVER the other three did.  Why didn't we? One word - Mentality.

United I am ashamed to say have it, Chelsea have it (although they bought it) and Arsenal until 2004 (ironically their invincible year) had it; WE have not - the It of which I speak? That dead eyed certainty that a home banker win IS going to be OUR win, the knowledge that we WILL win a game no matter what, that NONE of our title rivals are safe no matter how many points we are behind them (ala us in 81/82 or United in 2002/2003 not much difference is there? Both came from more than 10 points back to win the league BOTH under the 3 points for a win rule - so it can be done).  That is what Liverpool are missing and haven't had since the very start of the 1990's and when we get that back? THEN and only then will we reclaim the league title.  The best way to do it of course is for Rafa' to just let the team play as he does in the CL where we DO have that dead eyed certainty of which I speak (we're the best English team IN EUROPE by a mile and have been since 2001).  But for some reason he hasn't done that until now - the other way of claiming back what I call 'the aura' is to fill the team with captains and/or strong minded individuals who can think for themselves and who KNOW how to win the game or there own whatever the position. 

Rafa' now appears to be doing this - will it work? Who knows? But the fact we lost less games than United last season and were victories over Chelsea (twice), Arsenal (twice), Villa (H) and Spurs (H) from winning the league (any 4 would have done it).  Suggests it IS working - Maybe the player we needed this season wasn't the FINAL piece of the jigsaw as certain idiots elsewhere have put it but the RIGHT PIECES and in a creative defender whose strong and quick from the start of the season (Agger) and an inside forward to strike fear into those trying to close down Torres, Babel and Gerrard (Keane of course) Maybe we've found the RIGHT PIECES - Barry? Maybe he'd be good, maybe not but Alonso's form or lack of it last year wasn't our problem - Our DEFENCE was - we started games well plenty of times but how often did we show the necessary professionalism/MENTALITY/aura to finish the game and the foes off? Not often enough as the table shows.  We need to remedy that this year and maybe the likes of Keane and Agger playing a BIG part will help with that.  The other thing we need is the fans treating EVERY league game like a CL big night to start scaring EVERYONE who comes to Fortress Anfield again and a bit of humility (i.e. one game at a time rather than 'win it Rafa or else'). 

Seriously, do some of the idiots who post on here and say title challenge or else, win it or else - He's had long enough etc and all the other crap they spout seriously BELIEVE that WHEN we won the league as of right, year in - year out (and despite only being 30 I've seen us win EIGHT league titles so YES it DID happen, and it will again) think that the managers got that kind of crap from idiot know-all fans? Of course not, they simply said we'll take it one match at a time and last season is history now let's worry about THIS year - So before you go getting all jealous of the Manc filth and their idiot fans boasting and bragging about last year - REMEMBER - that's history now and it's about time we made some more of that or our record will be it (history) if we carry on turning on our own - "A divided house cannot stand alone";  You should ALL remember that and re the Mancs "those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know" - If they talk to much, let them - it just shows them up as idiots - YOU don't want that do you? So let them be ridiculed - and who knows? Maybe it'll be US ridiculing them - if we're humble, professional and above all CONSISTENT enough this year, you never know..........................


PS To the West Ham fan - read the stats above - there's already TWO occasions when despite the odds stacked against us we've come within 2 wins (over Chelsea in 05/06) or 4 wins (take your pick from all our wonderous draws last year) of winning the damn thing AND we already have FA Cup and CL winners medals AND runners up medals since Rafa' got here - not so bad a record when you look it like that is it? A Hammer giving US advice on managers? As if LOL........

PPS The United fan;  You may have the best defence but WE have the best goalie - he's won the Golden Gloves in the past THREE seasons and thus is indisputably better than VDS and Skrtel and Agger are younger that means they WILL be better than Rio and Vidic (who only have 2/3 seasons left as a top level partnership) it's a matter of time that's all.

As to Dossena - I scarce think you can knock an ITALIAN (you know - they invented defending almost?) as worse than a Frenchman (Evra) after the pathetic French showing in Euro 2008.  Although I'll give you Degen as he's almost wholly untried yet.

Funny how you never mentioned midfield though isn't it?  You want to compare Babel to Nani? Babel got 11 goals last year - How many did Nani get?  Mascherano is FAR better than Hargreaves in the holding role and Gerrards the closest thing in  the PL to what Scholes WAS;  Carrick and Alonso I'd say is a draw although the Spaniard is by far the better passer and should we get Barry, he scores far more than Carrick as well. The only CLEAR advantage you have here is Ronaldo and he's hardly going to be that on crutches for 3 months is he?  Either way, we'll now finally look at your other missing area;  This is my favourite area;

Upfront: You also missed THIS area; Although I can guess why as with TORRES - We have a player who is better than ALL of yours upfront (Rooney, Tevez AND Saha), with Keane we have at least the equal of Tevez and when played upfront consistently Kuyt is also his equal (you don't remember his first season with 17 League goals do you? and last year he got 11).  Incidentally WHEN Babel's played upfront consistently as he will be soon, we might just have another Ronaldo on our hand's which will be fun.  Saha's a good bench option for you (as Crouch was for us last year and Kuyt will be prob') but he's always injured.  As to Rooney;  He's better than our other strikers but he's not better than Torres and Keane can score almost as many which should make next year interesting to say the least.  So no, you DON'T have it over us in any way anymore except one and that's mentality and Who knows? we may even fix that this year, which should make things interesting to say the least.............................

The reason I didn't continue to compare is I wanted to just talk about the back lines initially. As for saying your full back is better than Evra because he is Italian is obscene. I was hoping for a decent discussion not this mindless drivel. I'm not to sure about how much each player played but Nani scored 4 goals and got 11 assists last year, and United fans were happy with his 1st season. I'm not taking away from Babel he look's like you have a top prospect on your hands. I can't really be bothered to address the rest as you are clearly not looking for a reasonable debate. I'd be more than happy to with someone else who will look at the situation in a reasonable manner. I think you have a good point regarding mentality though. And buying Barry and Keane, captains of their respective clubs, could be a good way to bring in that kind of positive strong mind set.

Offline Perspective

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #150 on: July 30, 2008, 05:01:27 pm »
Is this you  http://www.redcafe.net/f7/scouse-delusion-rhyme-211944/

No. I have seen that thread, but nothing to do with me. I got banned from Redcafe about a year back.

Offline Perspective

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #151 on: July 30, 2008, 05:07:19 pm »
Just some general thought's I have on the rest of the team:

A Keane Torres partnership is very well balanced, where as a Rooney Tevez partnership isn't so much so. Now while Torres is as good, or better even based on last season alone, than our front 2, Keane is not as good as either in my opinion, which some what even's the score. Plus Rooney and tevez already have a season under their belts together.

From what I saw of Kuyt and Voronin, even though Kuyt was often used off the right, they just don't appear to be good enough. We also have issue's with depth. Although, perhaps not if Ferguson plan's on playing Ronaldo through the middle more and more as he did last season. We may also be lucky with Saha and get a few games, but I wouldn't bank on someone who appears to be made of biscuits.

Offline lunnylad

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #152 on: July 30, 2008, 06:07:03 pm »
I can see the Ronaldo Tevez Rooney type trio being applied iwth Gerrard Torres Keane.

Manchester United have expierience, there teams knows how to win the league. Its that simple, they can grind a 1-0 away or slaughter a team 3-0 at home, much like what they did to us last year. IF we can beat United at anfield this season.. because its an early game in the season it could give us the major boost we need, to start and believe. For me its not about player vs player its about squad v squad. This are long seaons we play and the top teams must have good replacement to call upon. I believe we have the best centre backs in the league, we have 4 top quality players who could arguably get into any side in europe.  In our midfield we have a few world class players, ie Gerrard Mascher, both of whom can be match winners. We have a young starlet in Ryan Babel who has shown sights of brilliance and i am looking forward to see him develop.

Now, on the issue of the right side. For me i believe kuyt can do a good job there this season, he will have a good right back supporting him going forward and he will give 110%. Plus we have some great backups in Xabi, Yossi and Lucas, I believe our midfield is the 3rd best in the league behind United and Chelsea although we can outplay any midfield at our best. Our strikers have always been an issue, although now we suddenly seem gifted in the area. Torres, Keane, N'Gog, Voroning and Nemeth all have the ability to score goals. In my opinion we have the best striker in europe in Torres and we may have found the perfect partner in Keane. Along with Nemeth, N'Gog and Voronin for back up we look quite nice in this department.

Overall I believe we have a squad who are definately capable of challenging for the title, aslong as we can keep up with the Uniteds and Chelseas we will be in with a shout, and who knows the Premier League might have a new home. As far as im concernced United and Chelsea are the favourites, but that suites us. We are the biggest underdog.. Istanbul and Athen.. who'd of thought it.

With some passion and belief we can win the league, so lets take our vitamins and say our prayers.

You never know what you might wake up to

Some of this sounds rational mate, but what are you chattin' at with our forwards!?!? Voronin is as pony as his 'tail, N'Gog is a prolific 1 in 15 (in what is, frankly, a shit league) and Nemeth, whilst undoubtebly having potential, is massively unproven at this level.

If there is one are we lack depth, it's up front....ynwa
6 may come first, but we all want 19
good luck to Rafa, where the fuck's Keane?....

Offline Red number seven

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #153 on: July 30, 2008, 07:54:04 pm »
A Keane Torres partnership is very well balanced, where as a Rooney Tevez partnership isn't so much so. Now while Torres is as good, or better even based on last season alone, than our front 2, Keane is not as good as either in my opinion, which some what even's the score. Plus Rooney and tevez already have a season under their belts together.
Tevez and Rooney scored 14 and 12 respectively last season. Tevez scored 7 in a poor side the previous. Rooney's record at United is between 11 and 16 a season for 4 seasons in the best attacking side in the country. 6 and 9 for the 2 seasons at Everto (he was very young, in fairness)

Robbie Keane has scored, for six consecutive seasons - you guessed it - between 11 and 16 premier league goals in a middling to upper third side. I think he is the only current player to be on 6 consecutive double figure seasons.

Now I know goals aren't all, but bearing in mind his main role has always been the link player this does suggest a remarkable degree of consistency.

Robbie Keane is a really clever player, with great feet and a load of bottle. He is not electrically quick, but Torres can do that bit. I think Keane is very underrated and I suspect you will agree in 12 months.

I also think Tevez is only a decent centre forward, not in Rooney's class and I can't see you paying the alleged 30+ million for him. Can you?

From what I saw of Kuyt and Voronin, even though Kuyt was often used off the right, they just don't appear to be good enough.
Agree with all that.
"You just have to give them credit for not throwing in the towel" - Gennaro Gattuso, May, 2005

And then we'll get 4th as well and everyone in the whole world can do one.

Offline -Sad Fuck-

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #154 on: July 30, 2008, 10:29:49 pm »
After watching that, I'm confident we're capable of winning the league.
hi

Offline Tom_B

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #155 on: July 30, 2008, 11:05:38 pm »
Still think we are one top attacking player away from a title challenge.
We're on our way to glory...

Offline Red number seven

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #156 on: July 31, 2008, 12:31:03 am »
come on a 28 year old for that much when torres' fee was similar thats a joke, he couldn't fire totenham anywhere but some how he's gonna the almighty liverpool somewhere ?  ?? ??  give me a break.

come on keane has little pace and is slightly over weight !it doesn't matter how many players he rests if 1 of them is torres or gerrard if one of them isn't there the team is average

i know its not exactly mid table but it might as well be compared to the standards of the big 2

u watch same thing will happen this year man u and chelsea will kill u in the league and next season u will all be on here writing on the optimism posts.....well good luck with that guys......... if u get rafa out u may have a chance to turn things around



Text messaging is a very useful means of communication but it has a lot to answer for.

That's all.
"You just have to give them credit for not throwing in the towel" - Gennaro Gattuso, May, 2005

And then we'll get 4th as well and everyone in the whole world can do one.

Offline Red number seven

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #157 on: July 31, 2008, 12:32:20 am »
Still think we are one top attacking player away from a title challenge.
What if Babel steps up his game?

To be fair, I probably agree if he doesn't. I have high hopes for him ths season, though.
"You just have to give them credit for not throwing in the towel" - Gennaro Gattuso, May, 2005

And then we'll get 4th as well and everyone in the whole world can do one.

Offline Camina Camina

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #158 on: July 31, 2008, 01:28:05 am »
Good Thread L6, but I think you may have overlooked the key missing piece of the jigsaw in winning No. 19

Muzzies!

Specifically a player with a Muzzy!

All of our title winning teams that I can remember had at least one player with a Muzzy, for the jinx to be broken we need a muzzy in the team, the karmic linkage is obvious when you think about it.

Now Rafa is trying his best, but deep down we all know a Goatee is merely a Muzzy with undercarriage, and it has to be a player that steps up to the plate and grows one for the team and keep it all season.

The obvious candidate in my opinion is Yossi!









* It is late and I am slightly drunk so all of the above might be bollocks
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Offline Ozzy_Red

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Re: This is the year...
« Reply #159 on: July 31, 2008, 01:48:40 am »
I think Us, Chelsea and the Mancs all have the quality to win the Prem. I don't man to man match-ups are really important, cos if they were Chelsea would have shit on both us and the mancs. The big question this season is who can be consistant, and in the big games, who can play well together. If we are consistant and play well together, than i think we will bring home #19. Chelsea is not a team that are consistant and play well as a team. Their match-winners bring them home usually, but sometimes they just fall apart, Chelsea will win the league if both us and the mancs are inconsistant.

Man U are a top class team, but I do think (and hope) they aren't going to play as well this season as they did last season, even if Ronaldo stays, I don't beleive he will play as well as he did last season, Giggs, Scholes and Brown, seem to be getting worse and worse each time I see them play. Rooney is overrated Tevez dosen't fit in, and VDS isn't the keeper he was 12 months ago.

If Gerrard, Torres and Keane fire, we could be in for a great season! We have a strong defence, top class midfield and in my opinion one of the top 5 keepers in the world. #19, here we come!
Rarfer out! Go the Liverpool Reds Football Franchise!

Wanker : Manchester United fan. Follower of Manchester United. Denzien of Manchester. More likely to know more about white dog poo than football.