Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread

[dakid]

England U19 highlights vs Germany. Ojo and Rossiter feature. http://youtu.be/U_HQtHFP2l8

[lastbaron]

Ojo could have a great future. His physical structure and technique are quite exceptional for his age. He needs to find what role suits him best and work on that.

[[new username under construction]]

Ojo could have a great future. His physical structure and technique are quite exceptional for his age. He needs to find what role suits him best and work on that.

Tricky isn't it. I'm not sure he's quite anything....if you know what I mean. Hopefully he gets some games for us in the future, I really like him

[ThePeetmix]

Tricky isn't it. I'm not sure he's quite anything....if you know what I mean. Hopefully he gets some games for us in the future, I really like him

It's probably why these loans are good for Ojo. Give him more of a regular role in a side.

I think for the most part nowadays, he's being used as a left winger.

[stevelecool]

I'd like to see Ojo drifting wide from a central position, like how Di Maria played in Madrid's 4-3-3. Think that's the position that best suits him, even though he's rarely been used centrally.

[Fromola]

According to the Australian FA, Brad Smith is currently without a club. Just to make it "official" even though the club and player have been quiet about it.

http://under23s.footballaustralia.com.au/article/vidmar-names-strong-squad-for-olyroos-matches/tmgjoy6yw6bv1o79wyi2v66p7

Well done the club on cutting his loan spell short at Swindon last season when he was playing every week at the top of League One. Really benefited all parties that.

[lfcmason]

Ryan Kent going to Coventry City on loan

[Lovely Man]

England U19 highlights vs Germany. Ojo and Rossiter feature. http://youtu.be/U_HQtHFP2l8

Great finish by Ojo, some first touch as well under pressure.


He looks a danger, bit raw like Adama Traore, but very powerful and very quick and good reflexes.

I also really like Solanke, and I sort of hope that Chelsea are caught napping and we can steal in there in the future.  Much like Sinclair, and Sturridge, the homegrown lads will never get a go while Chelsea are so fixated on short term success and immediate results.

[Aceldama]

This is a good read: https://youthhawk.wordpress.com/2015/09/07/the-problems-and-promises-of-modern-english-youth-football-a-deconstruction/

It's a very detailed critique of the usual suspects. We get a brief positive mention. It's long but I think it's worth reading the whole thing if you have the time, there are so many quotable passages.

[jboy14]

Great little article on Harry Wilson here : http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-starlet-harry-wilson-10013943?s


I think he will do well there and maybe if luck is on his side, he could make the Wales Euro 2016 squad along with 3 other Liverpool players.

[Fromola]

Ryan Kent going to Coventry City on loan

Good move, but didn't the club prevent him joining Swindon because they wanted him on a Championship loan?

[Chris~]

This is a good read: https://youthhawk.wordpress.com/2015/09/07/the-problems-and-promises-of-modern-english-youth-football-a-deconstruction/

It's a very detailed critique of the usual suspects. We get a brief positive mention. It's long but I think it's worth reading the whole thing if you have the time, there are so many quotable passages.

On the bit about football league sides giving players a chance and then them being bought, I imagine Lewis Cook will be the next one to get snapped up by a Premier League side. It'll be interesting to compare his progress with Rossiter who looks like he's skipping the loan phase and to a lesser extent Ledson if he gets off the u21s bench.

[Aceldama]

On the bit about football league sides giving players a chance and then them being bought, I imagine Lewis Cook will be the next one to get snapped up by a Premier League side. It'll be interesting to compare his progress with Rossiter who looks like he's skipping the loan phase and to a lesser extent Ledson if he gets off the u21s bench.

Ledson seems to be stalling compared with his peers in this group. He doesn't seem that close to the Everton first team and he's gone from captaining England youth teams to not being in the squad.

From that England U19 squad you have two central midfielders playing regular league football (Reed and Cook) and two on the fringes of PL teams with better than average records of promoting youth (Onomah and Rossiter). For the purpose of comparison it's a shame there aren't another couple of central midfielders in the group from Chelsea/Man City.

[dakid]

Interesting article this. Surprised only two of our promoted players from the academy since 2010/11 season have played 25 games for us and one of them is gone now.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-united/68/post/2596330/kane-and-premier-league-youth-graduates-chances-slipping

[ThePeetmix]

Good move, but didn't the club prevent him joining Swindon because they wanted him on a Championship loan?

I imagine we were holding out as long as we could for one, but the opportunity just never came along.

[DefJack]

England U19 highlights vs Germany. Ojo and Rossiter feature. http://youtu.be/U_HQtHFP2l8

Great pass by Rossiter in that video, he definitely has that ability, would like to see it come out more.

[Mr Mingebag Squid]

Good move, but didn't the club prevent him joining Swindon because they wanted him on a Championship loan?

I thought the Swindon manager said he wanted him, but there were Championship clubs interested, so was unlikely to get him. Maybe nothing concrete materialised and Coventry were the best team to put in an offer?

Plus, with Swindon having three from us, they couldn't loan any more of us could they?

[macca007]

Ledson seems to be stalling compared with his peers in this group. He doesn't seem that close to the Everton first team and he's gone from captaining England youth teams to not being in the squad.

From that England U19 squad you have two central midfielders playing regular league football (Reed and Cook) and two on the fringes of PL teams with better than average records of promoting youth (Onomah and Rossiter). For the purpose of comparison it's a shame there aren't another couple of central midfielders in the group from Chelsea/Man City.

My mate coached Ledson at everton until he left the other year.  Said they had higher expectations for him than Barkley and even Rooney.  And that was not long ago

[C]

He's only 18, i'm sure Ledson is going to get his chance - as mentioned he's shown great promise for years and will surely be a premier league player. Just a case of getting his break, he's got Besic, Barkley, Barry, Cleverly (inj) Gibson, McCarthy, Osman to get past. Strange he doesn't have a squad number though.

what about Loftus Cheek at Chelsea, i've seen him make a fair cameos.

[Chris~]

Ledson's not started the season as a starter for their u21 side though. Could be injury related or something else I guess.

[RaveDave]

I thought the Swindon manager said he wanted him, but there were Championship clubs interested, so was unlikely to get him. Maybe nothing concrete materialised and Coventry were the best team to put in an offer?

Plus, with Swindon having three from us, they couldn't loan any more of us could they?

I read an article today online somewhere that said two championship clubs wanted him but neither would agree to Liverpool's request for him to be guaranteed a certain amount of playing time.

[exiledintheUSA]

I read an article today online somewhere that said two championship clubs wanted him but neither would agree to Liverpool's request for him to be guaranteed a certain amount of playing time.

Good to hear that we are making certain demands.  Nothing worse than sending a kid out of loan and to not get any playing time.

[Mr Mingebag Squid]

Good to hear that we are making certain demands.  Nothing worse than sending a kid out of loan and to not get any playing time.

Agreed. As poor as the U21 league is, there's no point sending a kid to go sit on another teams bench, or worse, turn out for their U21 team.

If a prospective team can offer at least 45 mins a game then that's what we should be after.

[KingKolo]

Agreed. As poor as the U21 league is, there's no point sending a kid to go sit on another teams bench, or worse, turn out for their U21 team.

If a prospective team can offer at least 45 mins a game then that's what we should be after.

On the flipside, isn't it a bit dodgy for a young player to get used to playing no matter how he performs in training or in games? Moreover, these loan moves should serve as a good test of a young players ability to cut it at a higher level. If Kent had ended up on the bench at a Championship club, it would maybe tell us about his overall potential.

[Lovely Man]

It's hard to see how any of the young players are going to get a chance to move into the first team when Rodgers is having a hard enough time giving gametime to players like Allen, Lucas, Lallana, Ings, Origi, Toure, Moreno, not to mention Markovic who is on loan.

Not sure what Joe Gomez did in training, but to get straight into the first team from where he was at Charlton is extraordinary.

[Cpt_Reina]

It's hard to see how any of the young players are going to get a chance to move into the first team when Rodgers is having a hard enough time giving gametime to players like Allen, Lucas, Lallana, Ings, Origi, Toure, Moreno, not to mention Markovic who is on loan.

Not sure what Joe Gomez did in training, but to get straight into the first team from where he was at Charlton is extraordinary.

That's a good thing isnt it? Having to be extraordinary to get in to our team? Thats what we want.

Be arsed with handing out games to the likes of El Zhar and Plessis because there's nobody better than them keeping them out.

If those still at the club like Kent/Brannagan/Teixeria/whoever need to be extraordinary to get a game then I'm more than happy with that, because it means that we've set a decent bar for them. If they reach it (like Gomez) then we're laughing.

Rodgers wont hesitate in playing those who set themselves apart.

[Chris~]

Gomez, Ibe and Rossiter have all played in the first 4 games, I wouldn't worry about young players not getting game time under Rodgers.

With the injuries we've got in midfield we might see someone else make the squad for next Thursday if Rodgers really does want to rest most the first choice players. Plus there's a home game against League Two opposition the week after that.

[Lovely Man]

That's a good thing isnt it? Having to be extraordinary to get in to our team? Thats what we want.

Be arsed with handing out games to the likes of El Zhar and Plessis because there's nobody better than them keeping them out.

If those still at the club like Kent/Brannagan/Teixeria/whoever need to be extraordinary to get a game then I'm more than happy with that, because it means that we've set a decent bar for them. If they reach it (like Gomez) then we're laughing.

Rodgers wont hesitate in playing those who set themselves apart.

But some players need top level experience to get the last bit of their development, and may then go on to be extraordinary, compared with their peers.

If we take Shelvey as an example, that lad wouldn't be where he is today if he was being loaned here there and everywhere, and being stuck in our U21's.  His motivation has come from being exposed to top level footy for a sustained period, seeing his flaws, and then wanting to work on them.

We've got a bunch of players who will never recognise their flaws as a top level player, because they never get a game at top level for long enough to recognise it themselves.

[g1norris]

I know it has been mentioned earlier but Coventry announce Kent Loan...

Coventry City sign Liverpool midfielder Ryan Kent on a youth loan deal until January 16th.

More: http://bit.ly/1gbt834

[Lovely Man]

Gomez, Ibe and Rossiter have all played in the first 4 games, I wouldn't worry about young players not getting game time under Rodgers.

With the injuries we've got in midfield we might see someone else make the squad for next Thursday if Rodgers really does want to rest most the first choice players. Plus there's a home game against League Two opposition the week after that.

I would argue that Rossiter's experience the first team is a different beast to the time, and roles, enjoyed by pace-merchants Ibe and Gomez.

[CraigDS]

But some players need top level experience to get the last bit of their development, and may then go on to be extraordinary, compared with their peers.

If we take Shelvey as an example, that lad wouldn't be where he is today if he was being loaned here there and everywhere, and being stuck in our U21's.  His motivation has come from being exposed to top level footy for a sustained period, seeing his flaws, and then wanting to work on them.

We've got a bunch of players who will never recognise their flaws as a top level player, because they never get a game at top level for long enough to recognise it themselves.

Why wouldn't their flaws be obvious playing first team football out on loan?

[Lovely Man]

Why wouldn't their flaws be obvious playing first team football out on loan?

Because it's not the PL.

EG. Lloyd Jones could hit the gym and work on heading balls 50 yards, and he'd find himself to be a very good League One defender.

But he'd feel like he stepped into another world if he came into the PL, and would discover other flaws in his game that he needs to work on.

[CraigDS]

Because it's not the PL.

EG. Lloyd Jones could hit the gym and work on heading balls 50 yards, and he'd find himself to be a very good League One defender.

But he'd feel like he stepped into another world if he came into the PL, and would discover other flaws in his game that he needs to work on.

Isn't that the whole point though?

They have flaws which could potentially see them sink if they played in the PL (unless they are an outstanding talent - which is rare) - so they work on the weaknesses which show at a lower level, then they'll be better players when they come to the PL and will hopefully push for more game time to allow them to further improve again.

It's all done in stages. There is no use in throwing players who aren't ready into the PL for a few minutes here and there.

[Chris~]

I would argue that Rossiter's experience the first team is a different beast to the time, and roles, enjoyed by pace-merchants Ibe and Gomez.

Think that's the first time I've seen Gomez described as a pace merchant.

[plura]

Think that's the first time I've seen Gomez described as a pace merchant.

Not saying he's that, but how much and for how long time have you seen descriptions of Gomez? Besides these past 1-2months, well can it be that much?

[Mr Mingebag Squid]

On the flipside, isn't it a bit dodgy for a young player to get used to playing no matter how he performs in training or in games? Moreover, these loan moves should serve as a good test of a young players ability to cut it at a higher level. If Kent had ended up on the bench at a Championship club, it would maybe tell us about his overall potential.

I did think this as I posted. I guess you'd want them to get the minutes to try and prove their worth, almost like an initial month with as much game time as possible - then review - if player form is poor, you give the loaning team a bit more Carte Blanche to do as they deem fit and encourage the player to improve to warrant a place.

Worst thing would to do would be loaning the kid to a team where he gets 5 minutes here and there and no real time to develop confidence and force his way in, and spends his time not really doing anything.

Probably never could happen dictating to other teams like this unless they were true feeder teams.

[Chris~]

Not saying he's that, but how much and for how long time have you seen descriptions of Gomez? Besides these past 1-2months, well can it be that much?

Is there any way to answer that without it coming across like 'I liked them before they were cool'

[Mr Mingebag Squid]

Because it's not the PL.

EG. Lloyd Jones could hit the gym and work on heading balls 50 yards, and he'd find himself to be a very good League One defender.

But he'd feel like he stepped into another world if he came into the PL, and would discover other flaws in his game that he needs to work on.

Thing is, you've assumed there that League One teams lump the ball. Yes, you'll get the odd team that does this - but think you'll be surprised by how many teams like to get the ball down and play.

I'd rather a defender earn his craft against a wily old pro in the lower leagues and see how he deals with that first - if you can't handle a Kevin Phillips, Jamie Cureton, Akinfenwa style player - then you're not really going to get much luck against a Drogba or Sanchez.

Playing lower down the leagues exposes younger players to challenges they wouldn't necessarily face in the PL - and by going on loan, you'd want them to make mistakes and learn from them.

[lfcmason]

Coventry have scored the most goals in England so far so I fail to see how it's a bad move for Kent. Good experienced manager in Tony Mowbray too.

[jdpapa3]

On the flipside, isn't it a bit dodgy for a young player to get used to playing no matter how he performs in training or in games? Moreover, these loan moves should serve as a good test of a young players ability to cut it at a higher level. If Kent had ended up on the bench at a Championship club, it would maybe tell us about his overall potential.

Every situation has its own unique circumstances, but clubs definitely treat loan players differently than they do their own. Maybe Ibe's loan terms were a big part of him getting back into the team after a dip in form. If a club just wants one of ours to make numbers for emergency depth, then they won't be interested in doing these types of agreements. It's a way of ensuring that the club actually likes the player.