Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé

[Samie]

Frank Rijkaard

[Draex]

Doesn’t look the most athletic though does he?

Looks ok to me, certainly no slower than peak Fabinho.

[Coolie High]

The 8s are great, I'm glad we've got all 3 of them albeit there are question marks over Szoboslai and Gravenberch (although he was outstanding yesterday). We should have signed him instead of Endo.

Nah I believe 2 8’s was enough, Macallister and one of Szoboszlai/Gravenberch. I made the same argument  at the start of the season that we would have been better served going for an 6/8 instead of
Gravenberch because we already had a similar 8 in Jones.
 
Gravenberch can still turn into a top player but he wasn’t addressing a pertinent issue in our squad, we need someone with raw athleticism who was more defensively focused, it’s no surprise we’ve let the league go because we are easy to play through and lack athleticism and tactical noise throughout our midfield. The only great athlete out of all the names we have is Szoboszlai and he isn’t a defensive player, we needed a defensive version of him.

Endo signing was fine, it addressed an area where we needed bodies at the very minimum, signing 3 attacking 8’s was a bad use of our finances for me.

[RyanBabel19]

Most managers in this league would prefer a 6ft plus DM, both the best DMs in the league in Rice and Rodri fit this template.

Having a 6 foot plus DM is great for this league but it's not really a must, it just helps in some aspects.

Drop Mascherano into our team sweeping up danger for MacAllister to advance, would be fucking incredible

[Sarge]

It will be interesting to see who leave just as mush as who comes in. That may dictate who we go after.

Possibly leaving my guess would be.

Kellegher
Tmisikas
Salah
Carvalho
Philips
Van De Berg
Williams

Loans

Gordon
Doak
Beck
Clarke
Bajetic
Danns
Koumas
McConnell

Matip and Thiago out too.

[Knight]

Nah I believe 2 8’s was enough, Macallister and one of Szoboszlai/Gravenberch. I made the same argument  at the start of the season that we would have been better served going for an 6/8 instead of
Gravenberch because we already had a similar 8 in Jones.
 
Gravenberch can still turn into a top player but he wasn’t addressing a pertinent issue in our squad, we need someone with raw athleticism who was more defensively focused, it’s no surprise we’ve let the league go because we are easy to play through and lack athleticism and tactical noise throughout our midfield. The only great athlete out of all the names we have is Szoboszlai and he isn’t a defensive player, we needed a defensive version of him.

Endo signing was fine, it addressed an area where we needed bodies at the very minimum, signing 3 attacking 8’s was a bad use of our finances for me.

Endo can play the 6 position but didn’t address the lack of athleticism and ease of being played through at all. He was a body that didn’t fix the problem. Assuming Andre would have fixed that we could have got a body in at 6 in Andre who actually sorted the problem and also bought the 8s we did given we definitely needed 2 8s and arguably needed 3 anyway.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Endo can play the 6 position but didn’t address the lack of athleticism and ease of being played through at all. He was a body that didn’t fix the problem. Assuming Andre would have fixed that we could have got a body in at 6 in Andre who actually sorted the problem and also bought the 8s we did given we definitely needed 2 8s and arguably needed 3 anyway.

There really aren't too many elite 6s around at the moment that are attainable, or at least there weren't last summer. If you look at who we were linked with...

Sangare - can't get into Forest's team.
Caicedo - looks extremely limited at Chelsea.
Andre - no one took a chance on him despite him being openly available at a very affordable price.
Kone - in and out of Monchengladbach's team.
Ugarte - average season at PSG and criticised heavily for his ability on the ball.
Palhinha - a walking yellow card and awful on the ball.
Amrabat - potentially the Premier League's worst midfielder.
Lavia - played 13 minutes all season.

Keeping our powder dry after Caicedo fell through was probably the right decision, regardless of how the season has turned out. Hopefully there are more standouts this time around.

[Hazell]

Badgerman? Seriously, I'm sure there are a few names we'll be looking at that no one's even considered and it also depends on the environment they're coming into. I would've thought someone like Caicedo say, would have had a better season if he'd have signed for us (still not worth £100m+ though).

And now that top 4 is all but secure, I'm sure we'll start to hear some names.

[JackWard33]

Don't see how a 6 is a huge priority - especially if we're going to play with a double pivot in which Mac is pretty close to un-upgradable as the more defensive of the 2
If we need a body with Thiago leaving and Bajetic not ready (unsure on the second bit) and so that Endo doesn't have to play a lot of league games then cool but spending big on it doesn't seem necessary or that easy to do ..or likely to improve your results that much 

Lots of work / opportunity elsewhere .. as ever.. spend your money in both boxes

[Agent99]

The French league usually has some top class DMs. Where the fuck are they all?

[Sarge]

CDM we have Endo plus a young Bajetic the only two who can really play that role, now the thing is Hey You Guys!! may have other ideas and himself and Mikey will get it done.

[Knight]

Don't see how a 6 is a huge priority - especially if we're going to play with a double pivot in which Mac is pretty close to un-upgradable as the more defensive of the 2
If we need a body with Thiago leaving and Bajetic not ready (unsure on the second bit) and so that Endo doesn't have to play a lot of league games then cool but spending big on it doesn't seem necessary or that easy to do ..or likely to improve your results that much 

Lots of work / opportunity elsewhere .. as ever.. spend your money in both boxes

hehe you're nothing if not consistent Jack. How you can watch us get destroyed in transition for 3 seasons (particularly 22/23 but it was an issue 21/22 and this season too) and not think a DM really matters I don't know but I like the consistency! Which CBs aren't good enough do you reckon VVD? or Konate or both? If Konate is the issue availability or quality or both?

[JackWard33]

hehe you're nothing if not consistent Jack. How you can watch us get destroyed in transition for 3 seasons (particularly 22/23 but it was an issue 21/22 and this season too) and not think a DM really matters I don't know but I like the consistency! Which CBs aren't good enough do you reckon VVD? or Konate or both? If Konate is the issue availability or quality or both?

where did I say it didn't matter?

[killer-heels]

hehe you're nothing if not consistent Jack. How you can watch us get destroyed in transition for 3 seasons (particularly 22/23 but it was an issue 21/22 and this season too) and not think a DM really matters I don't know but I like the consistency! Which CBs aren't good enough do you reckon VVD? or Konate or both? If Konate is the issue availability or quality or both?

He is right though, its both boxes where we have done poorly this past month. Cant score much and letting in goals easily.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

He is right though, its both boxes where we have done poorly this past month. Cant score much and letting in goals easily.

Letting goals in isn't just a defender issue though is it?

[Chris~]

I'm not sure you can give Trent and Salah the freedom we do now and not have a 6 who's priority is stopping counters + covering space. Although also maybe at the point of whether we can do that with one as well

[MonsLibpool]

He is right though, its both boxes where we have done poorly this past month. Cant score much and letting in goals easily.

A team is a system.

If we're stronger in the middle then we concede  fewer chances and the game is more "one-way traffic".

[Egyptian36]

Joao Gomes from Wolves is really a very good player.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Well transfer nerds I am ready to give my scouting report from the Copenhagen match 

Rooney didn't come on, and generally other than one brilliant cross wing play was not great

BUT

Who did catch the eye was a lad called Orri Óskarsson. He played for 37 minutes from the bench and scored a hatrick - a great instinctive near post header, a brilliantly finished sliding finish, and an excellent daisy cutter shot from just outside the area.

Played the line well, good with the header, pretty quick, some real meat passes.

19 year old Icelandic striker, from what I can see has scored 12 goals from an equivalent of 17 games in minutes in all competitions.

To me the ideal low risk high reward signing as he would cost very little and could be very very good, and if he isn't, doesn't mean much for us

[Bread]

My prediction (not necessarily who I want to sell) is that we lose the following senior players this summer:

- Kelleher
- Adrian
- Matip
- Tsimikas
- Thiago
- Salah
- One of Nunez or Diaz (probably Diaz as he's seemingly attracting more interest) but definitely not both.

That leaves us needing a backup GK, a CB, a LB, and potentially 2 forwards. So a mini-upheaval but not a huge one. I'd personally love us to test Newcastle's, Palace's and Wolve's resolve for Isak, Olise and Ait Nouri respectively.

[Hazell]

Joao Gomes from Wolves is really a very good player.

Do we really need a Brummie Joe Gomez?

Just getting in there before Nick.

[Fromola]

Makelele, Kante, Mascherano or Matic - if all four were coming through now aged 22 and available for the same fee, which one would you sign for us?

The key is strength and other physical and technical qualities. Height is just an added advantage, mainly at set pieces and aerial duals.

Kante was the best defensive midfielder around, by a mile, for a few years at 5 foot 7. Mascherano a world class DM  for us and Argentine for years at 5 foot 9.

People got carried away thinking Caicedo was a Kante clone, but who knows how well he'd have done here.

[Garlic Red]

The key is strength and other physical and technical qualities. Height is just an added advantage, mainly at set pieces and aerial duals.

Kante was the best defensive midfielder around, by a mile, for a few years at 5 foot 7. Mascherano a world class DM  for us and Argentine for years at 5 foot 9.

People got carried away thinking Caicedo was a Kante clone, but who knows how well he'd have done here.

For me it’s as much about the partnership. Kante was truly brilliant, but there’s no doubting he was at his best when he was able to forge a proper partnership, usually with someone that could hold and screen, essentially letting him off the leash to disrupt. Funnily enough, Arsenal have used Rice in a similar way at times when they’ve let Jorginho sit in front of the back four, essentially given Rice freedom to press high and pen the opposition in.

I think height can be important in the position but only because it can be so difficult to dribble past taller, rangey players. It felt like our defensive three of Van Dijk, Matip and Fabinho were impenetrable at times because they were so big and rangey.

As has been alluded to, the 6 market is really poor at the moment, it feels like we want a unicorn and there simply aren’t the players coming through. I’m wondering if we can possibly get creative and find an alternative solution. I can remember watching Fabinho play centre back and right back for Monaco, I seem to recall Mourinho wanted to sign him as a defender when he was at United, too. Are there any centre backs out there that look like they could play midfield? Could Inacio? I’ve seen a few saying Slot isn’t afraid to get creative with his positional solutions. Maybe we have to think outside the box with the potential 6. I don’t think it can be ignored, for me it’s become one of the most crucial positions to preventing counter attacks and balancing the entire team.

[Sarge]

- One of Nunez or Diaz (probably Diaz as he's seemingly attracting more interest) but definitely not both.

Doubt either would be sold, I would hope not.

[Wingman]

Yeah I can’t see us going for him, just saying ordinarily he’d tick a lot of boxes of what we want from a signing. I can’t see Newcastle selling any of their best players, especially to clubs they want to consider direct rivals.

Which is a shame as I’d quite like to see Guimares and Isak in red

[PeterTheRed ...]

It will be interesting to see who leave just as mush as who comes in. That may dictate who we go after.

Possibly leaving my guess would be.

Kellegher
Tmisikas
Salah
Carvalho
Philips
Van De Berg
Williams

Loans

Gordon
Doak
Beck
Clarke
Bajetic
Danns
Koumas
McConnell

Apart from Thiago, Matip and Adrian, who are out of contract in the summer, I think that all the other players will be given the chance to impress our new manager in pre-season. I can see Salah leaving and being replaced by a younger right sided wide forward. Mo has been a great servant, but he is turning 32 in June, and it is time for us to move on. Kelleher will probably want to leave and be a starter somewhere, but we can always replace him with an experienced backup. Phillips and Williams will hopefully get their permanent moves (finally).

As for the younger players, like Van den Berg (who is having a great season at Mainz), Carvalho (doing great since his move to Hull), Morton, Beck, Ramsay, Bajcetic, Clark, Gordon, McConnell, Doak, Koumas, Danns and the likes, I expect them to be part of the pre-season squad, and for their future to be resolved later in the summer ...

[Egyptian36]

For me it’s as much about the partnership. Kante was truly brilliant, but there’s no doubting he was at his best when he was able to forge a proper partnership, usually with someone that could hold and screen, essentially letting him off the leash to disrupt. Funnily enough, Arsenal have used Rice in a similar way at times when they’ve let Jorginho sit in front of the back four, essentially given Rice freedom to press high and pen the opposition in.

I think height can be important in the position but only because it can be so difficult to dribble past taller, rangey players. It felt like our defensive three of Van Dijk, Matip and Fabinho were impenetrable at times because they were so big and rangey.

As has been alluded to, the 6 market is really poor at the moment, it feels like we want a unicorn and there simply aren’t the players coming through. I’m wondering if we can possibly get creative and find an alternative solution. I can remember watching Fabinho play centre back and right back for Monaco, I seem to recall Mourinho wanted to sign him as a defender when he was at United, too. Are there any centre backs out there that look like they could play midfield? Could Inacio? I’ve seen a few saying Slot isn’t afraid to get creative with his positional solutions. Maybe we have to think outside the box with the potential 6. I don’t think it can be ignored, for me it’s become one of the most crucial positions to preventing counter attacks and balancing the entire team.

Agree.

Football is not that complicated. You have a top deep playmaker then you pair him with a top defensive midfielder. You have a traditional striker then you need a playmaker behind him, false 9 you need two goal scoring forwards flanking him and so on ..

Currently our midfield isn't balanced we need to build around Mac.

[RedG13]

Agree.

Football is not that complicated. You have a top deep playmaker then you pair him with a top defensive midfielder. You have a traditional striker then you need a playmaker behind him, false 9 you need two goal scoring forwards flanking him and so on ..

Currently our midfield isn't balanced we need to build around Mac.

The best MF this season been Mac Allister, Jones, Szoboszlai and it been very good too. Mac Allister been good at the 6. He roles wo trent playing 8 was very similar to his 6 role.

[Samie]

Edwards sent the scouts to Sweden to watch Hacken again. Eyeing up that Winger again? 

[Sarge]

Edwards sent the scouts to Sweden to watch Hacken again. Eyeing up that Winger again? 

Who is he?

[RyanBabel19]

Edwards sent the scouts to Sweden to watch Hacken again. Eyeing up that Winger again? 

Sonko or someone else as Sonko was going to Gent in Jan wasn't he?

[Samie]

Was he? Then it must be someone else mate. 

[RyanBabel19]

Was he? Then it must be someone else mate. 

I'm not gonna pretend to know any of their other players I dont watch Swedish footie

[Knight]

where did I say it didn't matter?

Sorry my doesn't 'really matter' comment was shorthand for how it isn't a 'huge priority,' isn't 'necessary to spend big on' and isn't 'likely to improve your results that much'. My sense is that DMs actually can move the dial more than you think they do. I may well be wrong on that but it's interesting that Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool were willing to go over £100 million for DMs in the summer, perhaps they're less fungible than the common narrative on here? I reckon we're much more vulnerable than we could be defensively because we're not very good in transition and we're not good in transition partly because our deepest lying midfielder is often one of the worst athletes on the pitch. Admittedly some of the fees for DMs comes from their on ball work not just defensive work but I also think we could do with an upgrade here. Are our difficulties in beating a press entirely systemic or is personnel playing a role too? In many systems the DM is a key player in progressing the ball through a press, I reckon our inability to do it (quite often this season) is partly down to issues with the DM.

[Samie]

I'm not gonna pretend to know any of their other players I dont watch Swedish footie

What were you even doing on the RAWK Transfer forum/thread? Mac Red runs a tight ship here and he expect you to know evreything from evreywhere.

[Sarge]

What were you even doing on the RAWK Transfer forum/thread? Mac Red runs a tight ship here and he expect you to know evreything from evreywhere.

Yep he is in for a right good explanation from him.

[RyanBabel19]

What were you even doing on the RAWK Transfer forum/thread? Mac Red runs a tight ship here and he expect you to know evreything from evreywhere.

I got a bit lost to be honest, I was actually looking for Arsenal Mania

[William Regal]

If we make only one signing this summer, it needs to be Arsenals set piece coach

[slotmachine]

I wonder what the odds are that we get linked with Koopmeiners (again). He's been quoted as saying he wants to leave Atalanta.

This is a no brainer for Slot. Superb presser and very athletic his wikpedia says he has 25 goals in 92 games for Atlanta which is better than 1 in 4 excellent for a midfielder. He is horrible to play against as we have seen against us. Slot had him at AZ Alkamar and is now entering his prime years at 26 years old. We really have a lack of players in the 25-30 age bracket. He would probably cost around 40m and would be superb in the double pivot with Macca. Also another captain and leader which you can never have enough of.

[Coolie High]

Sorry my doesn't 'really matter' comment was shorthand for how it isn't a 'huge priority,' isn't 'necessary to spend big on' and isn't 'likely to improve your results that much'. My sense is that DMs actually can move the dial more than you think they do. I may well be wrong on that but it's interesting that Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool were willing to go over £100 million for DMs in the summer, perhaps they're less fungible than the common narrative on here? I reckon we're much more vulnerable than we could be defensively because we're not very good in transition and we're not good in transition partly because our deepest lying midfielder is often one of the worst athletes on the pitch. Admittedly some of the fees for DMs comes from their on ball work not just defensive work but I also think we could do with an upgrade here. Are our difficulties in beating a press entirely systemic or is personnel playing a role too? In many systems the DM is a key player in progressing the ball through a press, I reckon our inability to do it (quite often this season) is partly down to issues with the DM.

Can you remember the last title  winner without a top class DM? Probably United 10+ years ago. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel, we know what works.