Topic: Sub lost visiting the Titanic.

[Chakan]

On a CNN interview yesterday, it was mentioned that they had lost contact with the sub once before for 2 hours, last year I think, though it got sorted out in the end. Can't believe people would take that risk, but these aren't just the average person. One of them has also gone on a spaceflight last year, so taking risks seems to add to the enjoyment.

Guess when you have that much money everyday life becomes blasé

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Salger]

This may already have been answered previously but I don't understand why there is so much uncertainty about the subs location. Surely they must have known its location at the point they lost contact with it and you could make some accurate predictions about it's subsequent location from that? Lots of people saying 'it may be caught up in the wreckage' - surely they would have known if it was already at the wreckage site before losing contact?

[jambutty]

If the tapping is coming from the sub, the captain should know tap code to indicate their situation, no?

[Musketeer Gripweed]

This may already have been answered previously but I don't understand why there is so much uncertainty about the subs location. Surely they must have known its location at the point they lost contact with it and you could make some accurate predictions about it's subsequent location from that? Lots of people saying 'it may be caught up in the wreckage' - surely they would have known if it was already at the wreckage site before losing contact?

If they are at The Titanic they should just be looking for a big iceberg. They won't be far from that.

[rob1966]

If the tapping is coming from the sub, the captain should know tap code to indicate their situation, no?

There's not a proper captain on board, the CEO of the company is driving it, he's an ex engineer and pilot, so I doubt he even knows morse code

This may already have been answered previously but I don't understand why there is so much uncertainty about the subs location. Surely they must have known its location at the point they lost contact with it and you could make some accurate predictions about it's subsequent location from that? Lots of people saying 'it may be caught up in the wreckage' - surely they would have known if it was already at the wreckage site before losing contact?

They don't know if the vessel even has a distress beacon, so they don't know if its on the bottom or on the surface (although the tapping sounds reported would suggest its on the seabed) and if its still near the wreck site or if it's miles away, so basically they are looking for a white tube about the size of a Transit van in the Atlantic Ocean.

[lionel_messias]

If the tapping is coming from the sub, the captain should know tap code to indicate their situation, no?

How to tap "We're fucked" in Morse code?

[jambutty]

There's not a proper captain on board, the CEO of the company is driving it, he's an ex engineer and pilot, so I doubt he even knows morse code

Tap is Morse for dummies.  There's no dah in Tap.

[Clint Eastwood]

If the tapping is coming from the sub, the captain should know tap code to indicate their situation, no?

Morse code would be a bit of a stretch, but supposedly the drill is to tap continuously for three minutes every hour and half hour. That's one of those useful survival tips you're never taught in school so it's good to know.

[west_london_red]

This may already have been answered previously but I don't understand why there is so much uncertainty about the subs location. Surely they must have known its location at the point they lost contact with it and you could make some accurate predictions about it's subsequent location from that? Lots of people saying 'it may be caught up in the wreckage' - surely they would have known if it was already at the wreckage site before losing contact?

Losing contact with the surface is normal after a certain depth, so losing contact in itself doesn’t mean there’s a problem. The concerns started when the sub didn’t re-establish contact, so there’s quite a big window as to when the sub got into trouble. At the depth of the Titanic there is no way for the sub to communicate out of the water unless the sub has a tether or umbilical cord (which this sub didn’t) so there’s a huge period where the sub goes silent even when everything is working as expected.

[PhilV]

Didn't wanna chip in on this but here I am now

The Americans not accepting help from certain companies is mental, reminds me a lot of the Kursk incident where the Russian denied everything until it was way too late and it was perfectly feasible to rescue them.

There are a few bad takes on this thread, so as someone who works in the industry, let me address them:

1. People saying it is simple and blah blah, simple is good in these sort of vehicles, less things to go wrong.

2. The controller is common in DSV/UROV's and even Submarines, I have seen PS4 controllers used and XBOX ones also, same as USAF use for their drones. It is a simple, mass produced set of switches which is intuitive, it makes a lot of sense and you can have lots of spares.

3. The safety systems. There seemingly are none, this is the main flaw for me, it's proper amateur hour, the main thing is the lack of cameras on arms, you need a 3rd person view of your surroundings to properly navigate them, using one or two close to body cameras is super dangerous in a ROV let alone a DSV with crew.


I would hypothesise that they are stuck under something, why? Well the DSV will have water fuses, if it remains in water for too long, they pop, drop the ballasts and deploy the balloon to bring it to the surface safely and automatically. Clearly that has not happened so I would say it must be stuck under wreckage they got too close to or something otherwise the fuses failed or whatever but it is simple tried and tested tech... very odd!!

[lobsterboy]

If the tapping is coming from the sub, the captain should know tap code to indicate their situation, no?

Think the tapping is just the crabs trying to open their dinner?

Seriously, I'd rather go by implosion than a long drawn out suffocation or drowning by a leak.
Simultaneously ignited and compressed to the size of a golf ball by the force of millions of tons of water suddenly rushing into every orifice faster than the human brain can comprehend.

[BlackandWhitePaul]

Didn't wanna chip in on this but here I am now

The Americans not accepting help from certain companies is mental, reminds me a lot of the Kursk incident where the Russian denied everything until it was way too late and it was perfectly feasible to rescue them.

There are a few bad takes on this thread, so as someone who works in the industry, let me address them:

1. People saying it is simple and blah blah, simple is good in these sort of vehicles, less things to go wrong.

2. The controller is common in DSV/UROV's and even Submarines, I have seen PS4 controllers used and XBOX ones also, same as USAF use for their drones. It is a simple, mass produced set of switches which is intuitive, it makes a lot of sense and you can have lots of spares.

3. The safety systems. There seemingly are none, this is the main flaw for me, it's proper amateur hour, the main thing is the lack of cameras on arms, you need a 3rd person view of your surroundings to properly navigate them, using one or two close to body cameras is super dangerous in a ROV let alone a DSV with crew.


I would hypothesise that they are stuck under something, why? Well the DSV will have water fuses, if it remains in water for too long, they pop, drop the ballasts and deploy the balloon to bring it to the surface safely and automatically. Clearly that has not happened so I would say it must be stuck under wreckage they got too close to or something otherwise the fuses failed or whatever but it is simple tried and tested tech... very odd!!

Nice to read something written by someone who knows what they are talking about.

Thanks Phil

[Nick110581]

Didn't wanna chip in on this but here I am now

The Americans not accepting help from certain companies is mental, reminds me a lot of the Kursk incident where the Russian denied everything until it was way too late and it was perfectly feasible to rescue them.

There are a few bad takes on this thread, so as someone who works in the industry, let me address them:

1. People saying it is simple and blah blah, simple is good in these sort of vehicles, less things to go wrong.

2. The controller is common in DSV/UROV's and even Submarines, I have seen PS4 controllers used and XBOX ones also, same as USAF use for their drones. It is a simple, mass produced set of switches which is intuitive, it makes a lot of sense and you can have lots of spares.

3. The safety systems. There seemingly are none, this is the main flaw for me, it's proper amateur hour, the main thing is the lack of cameras on arms, you need a 3rd person view of your surroundings to properly navigate them, using one or two close to body cameras is super dangerous in a ROV let alone a DSV with crew.


I would hypothesise that they are stuck under something, why? Well the DSV will have water fuses, if it remains in water for too long, they pop, drop the ballasts and deploy the balloon to bring it to the surface safely and automatically. Clearly that has not happened so I would say it must be stuck under wreckage they got too close to or something otherwise the fuses failed or whatever but it is simple tried and tested tech... very odd!!

Thanks for this Phil.

What about being locked in? That it can only be opened from outside only.

That seems madness.

[killer-heels]

Thanks for this Phil.

What about being locked in? That it can only be opened from outside only.

That seems madness.

Its not like their going to be able to open it up from the inside down there are they?

[Schmidt]

Its not like their going to be able to open it up from the inside down there are they?

Without a way to open it from the inside they could float to the surface and still suffocate.

[killer-heels]

Without a way to open it from the inside they could float to the surface and still suffocate.

Wouldnt they get crushed?

[Schmidt]

Wouldnt they get crushed?

I meant if they were able to shed ballast they'd be able to float up to the surface, but if they're locked in from the outside they're still relying on someone finding them.

[PhilV]

Thanks for this Phil.

What about being locked in? That it can only be opened from outside only.

That seems madness.

I would assume that design choice was made in regard to the pressures and thus using machinery to secure seal was better than a manually operated one. Unfortunately cannot give better insight on this one as I know more about ROV's but I would hazard at the seal being the reason, machinery keeps it much more secure/tight than any human released handle could. Also, I'd imagine also smart choice so no one could have a freak out inside and open it.

Someone earlier (apologies, forget who) linked to Triton's webpage (re-linked below) - they are big boys in making submersibles for ultra deep dives (they have gone to the Challenger Deep, deepest point in the ocean like... 4-5 times), I actually am not familiar with their design but they look awesome, would love to see the tech.

https://tritonsubs.com/subs/ultradeep/

[stewil007]

Projections of only about 20 hours of oxygen left, unless they get to them soon, you can only think the worst will or already has happened

[Nick110581]

I meant if they were able to shed ballast they'd be able to float up to the surface, but if they're locked in from the outside they're still relying on someone finding them.

That’s what I meant

I doubt that would be very safe too

[rob1966]

I would assume that design choice was made in regard to the pressures and thus using machinery to secure seal was better than a manually operated one. Unfortunately cannot give better insight on this one as I know more about ROV's but I would hazard at the seal being the reason, machinery keeps it much more secure/tight than any human released handle could.

Someone earlier (apologies, forget who) linked to Triton's webpage (re-linked below) - they are big boys in making submersibles for ultra deep dives (they have gone to the Challenger Deep, deepest point in the ocean like... 4-5 times), I actually am not familiar with their design but they look awesome, would love to see the tech.

https://tritonsubs.com/subs/ultradeep/

It was me - I couldn't understand how a millionaire/billionaire chose to go down in an uncertified submersible with constant references to death in the waiver (3 on page on page 1 alone), when for £10million, if he felt like buying it or a lot less if available to rent  (BBC1 use the 3000 version for their filming, so I assume the 13000 is also available) he could have a fully certified vessel from a highly professional company. No way on this earth would I take my son that deep in the sea in anything but the very very best available.

[PhilV]

It was me - I couldn't understand how a millionaire/billionaire chose to go down in an uncertified submersible with constant references to death in the waiver (3 on page on page 1 alone), when for £10million, if he felt like buying it or a lot less if available to rent  (BBC1 use the 3000 version for their filming, so I assume the 13000 is also available) he could have a fully certified vessel from a highly professional company. No way on this earth would I take my son that deep in the sea in anything but the very very best available.

Sorry for forgetting but good on you for mentioning it.

I for one totally agree, wouldn't be caught in that OceanGate one, even if they were paying me! I honestly firmly believe people forget not everyone who is ultra wealthy is also very smart, our capitalistic society seemingly says they go hand in hand, well you had Steve Jobs die of a very treatable cancer cause he decided he knew better and eatign fruit would sort it, Elon is Elon and here you have this guy, when, as you say there is better alternatives.

I'd equate it to going to do a rally in a homebuilt car by some guy who has some understanding of it instead of using a WRC Subaru or whoever is good at rally cars these days.

[Snail]

The waiver they signed mentioned death three times on first page.

You would have to have some faith in the guy leading it.

One of them could’ve given me their 250 grand instead, they’d be alive and I wouldn’t be stuck renting!

[liverbloke]

Didn't wanna chip in on this but here I am now

The Americans not accepting help from certain companies is mental, reminds me a lot of the Kursk incident where the Russian denied everything until it was way too late and it was perfectly feasible to rescue them.

There are a few bad takes on this thread, so as someone who works in the industry, let me address them:

1. People saying it is simple and blah blah, simple is good in these sort of vehicles, less things to go wrong.

...

but therefore surely there is less to go right when a problem occurs?

[alonsoisared]

Interesting reading Phil's post there, thanks for sharing that.

Total sympathy with the people on board. Complaining about their carbon footprint flying to all corners of the world is one hell of a stretch. At the end of the day they're human beings suffering pretty much the worst imaginable way of dying, I find it very hard to just say "wow what a bunch of fucking idiots".

Also a lot of people wondering why it's a big story. It's a pretty unique situation isn't it? Migrant boats, tragically, sink all the time. People are becoming immune to it. Lots of people care deeply about it and it is a major talking point all year round. There are clearly some people who can be accused of double standards for the way they talk about this story compared to their opinions on refugees but it's not everyone.

This story is massive for many reasons, not least the grizzly way in which it looks like these people are about to go. The homemade sub with the Xbox remote, it's a story that captures the imagination. Hence why the people who don't think it should be such a big story are all contributing merrily to this 5 page thread about it. Some stories will always get more attention than perhaps it deserves in terms of it's actual global significance and this is one of them.

[rob1966]

Sorry for forgetting but good on you for mentioning it.

I for one totally agree, wouldn't be caught in that OceanGate one, even if they were paying me! I honestly firmly believe people forget not everyone who is ultra wealthy is also very smart, our capitalistic society seemingly says they go hand in hand, well you had Steve Jobs die of a very treatable cancer cause he decided he knew better and eatign fruit would sort it, Elon is Elon and here you have this guy, when, as you say there is better alternatives.

I'd equate it to going to do a rally in a homebuilt car by some guy who has some understanding of it instead of using a WRC Subaru or whoever is good at rally cars these days.

Agreed, being rich doesn't equate with having common sense or being bright. I just cannot fathom (pardon the pun) how anyone can treat the safety aspect of deep sea tourism as a joke, like OceanGate seems to have done. I've done helicopter pleasure flights, I've done a skydive and with the companies involved safety was the No1 priority. With knowing how badly it can go wrong in a chopper, there is no way I'd have taken my lad up in a cobbled together home built helicopter, but maybe I'm just more aware than these people.

[alonsoisared]

Agreed, being rich doesn't equate with having common sense or being bright. I just cannot fathom (pardon the pun) how anyone can treat the safety aspect of deep sea tourism as a joke, like OceanGate seems to have done. I've done helicopter pleasure flights, I've done a skydive and with the companies involved safety was the No1 priority. With knowing how badly it can go wrong in a chopper, there is no way I'd have taken my lad up in a cobbled together home built helicopter, but maybe I'm just more aware than these people.

perhaps they've taken for granted the idea that if it's allowed to happen and costs that much money then it must be legitimate? Youd think if it was unsafe and not fit for purpose then it wouldn't even be legal? I don't know. They've taken a gamble, no doubt about it. 

[Nobby Reserve]

When the occupants of the mini-sub 'wake up' tomorrow...

[Nick110581]

Agreed, being rich doesn't equate with having common sense or being bright. I just cannot fathom (pardon the pun) how anyone can treat the safety aspect of deep sea tourism as a joke, like OceanGate seems to have done. I've done helicopter pleasure flights, I've done a skydive and with the companies involved safety was the No1 priority. With knowing how badly it can go wrong in a chopper, there is no way I'd have taken my lad up in a cobbled together home built helicopter, but maybe I'm just more aware than these people.

All the reports seem to suggest the French guy on board is super experienced.

I would imagine they put full faith in him.

Do we know if this vessel has done this before ?

[liverbloke]

Agreed, being rich doesn't equate with having common sense or being bright. I just cannot fathom (pardon the pun) how anyone can treat the safety aspect of deep sea tourism as a joke, like OceanGate seems to have done. I've done helicopter pleasure flights, I've done a skydive and with the companies involved safety was the No1 priority. With knowing how badly it can go wrong in a chopper, there is no way I'd have taken my lad up in a cobbled together home built helicopter, but maybe I'm just more aware than these people.

oh rob - you've plummeted the deepest depths with that one


..and before anyone gets upset - it's only gallows humour - we hope for the best outcome

[lobsterboy]

One of them could’ve given me their 250 grand instead, they’d be alive and I wouldn’t be stuck renting!

No bragging rights down the golf club for doing that though!

[Chakan]

Agreed, being rich doesn't equate with having common sense or being bright. I just cannot fathom (pardon the pun) how anyone can treat the safety aspect of deep sea tourism as a joke, like OceanGate seems to have done. I've done helicopter pleasure flights, I've done a skydive and with the companies involved safety was the No1 priority. With knowing how badly it can go wrong in a chopper, there is no way I'd have taken my lad up in a cobbled together home built helicopter, but maybe I'm just more aware than these people.

Are there other companies doing these titanic viewings? Just curious.

[killer-heels]

One of them could’ve given me their 250 grand instead, they’d be alive and I wouldn’t be stuck renting!

Yeah but that way they wouldn’t have been able to see the place that Jack painted Rose.

[killer-heels]

When the occupants of the mini-sub 'wake up' tomorrow...

Deffo worth it. Height of Leo’s fitness as well.

[liverbloke]

Are there other companies doing these titanic viewings? Just curious.

now don't you go and get on one will yer - but if you do can i have your camera stuff?

[lionel_messias]

Aside from the tragic drama, this now looks like one of the most ridiculous follies of the Century. The health and safety equivalent of setting fire to yourself.

[redbyrdz]

Didn't wanna chip in on this but here I am now

The Americans not accepting help from certain companies is mental, reminds me a lot of the Kursk incident where the Russian denied everything until it was way too late and it was perfectly feasible to rescue them.

There are a few bad takes on this thread, so as someone who works in the industry, let me address them:

1. People saying it is simple and blah blah, simple is good in these sort of vehicles, less things to go wrong.

2. The controller is common in DSV/UROV's and even Submarines, I have seen PS4 controllers used and XBOX ones also, same as USAF use for their drones. It is a simple, mass produced set of switches which is intuitive, it makes a lot of sense and you can have lots of spares.

3. The safety systems. There seemingly are none, this is the main flaw for me, it's proper amateur hour, the main thing is the lack of cameras on arms, you need a 3rd person view of your surroundings to properly navigate them, using one or two close to body cameras is super dangerous in a ROV let alone a DSV with crew.


I would hypothesise that they are stuck under something, why? Well the DSV will have water fuses, if it remains in water for too long, they pop, drop the ballasts and deploy the balloon to bring it to the surface safely and automatically. Clearly that has not happened so I would say it must be stuck under wreckage they got too close to or something otherwise the fuses failed or whatever but it is simple tried and tested tech... very odd!!

Keep wondering if they could be stuck under the boat the came from.


To be honest to me the most likely scenario is that for some reason the ballast jammed and they couldn't dump it to resurface.

[Chakan]

now don't you go and get on one will yer - but if you do can i have your camera stuff?

If I had 10mil to spend on a submarine ride to doom, i'd buy you and me a new camera setup!

[Ray K]

Tap is Morse for dummies.  There's no dah in Tap.

There's definitely a ta-dah in Tap though. Just ask Sammy Davis Jnr

[red_lfc_costello]

Do we know if this vessel has done this before ?

pretty sure its been mentioned that this vessel has done this 'trip' a number of times but i cant find a quote