Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread

[Chris~]

Do you guys think Duncan will be promoted to the U23s in the second half of the season? U18s football seems a little easy for him.

Depends on who gets loans. Could be behind Origi, solanke, woodburn, miller, mcauley needing minutes as well.. Both him, Glatzel and a couple others should be seeing more minutes with the u23s soon though, just need to clear out the stagnating u23s.

[Sinyoro]

Duncan- woah. Never seen such hunger for goals. This kid is a future super star. Unbelievable mentality, and ability to boot!

[vallapureddy]

Ki-jana hoever is called up to train with first team. Any insight on this lad who watched him live?

[Lycan]

maybe a bit young to understudy robertson next season or do we think the door is always open?

Adam Lewis will hopefully be understudy to Robbo.

[ElPayaso]

Solanke will hopefully be loaned out in January, but I guess it depends on the future of Origi. Not sure Crystal Palace and Roy Hodgson is the right place for him, but another PL team would suit him well.

Hoever looks amazing from what I've seen so far, not a big sampla size so far but he's performed well both at CB and RB for both U18 and U23's. When he was playing CB against Napoli in UYL it looked like VVD was playing.

[Chris~]

Hoever has looked alright. Wouldn't say he's stood out massively compared to the other defenders though and he looks too small at the moment to play centre back for the frist team. Imagine he was promised some quick progression when signing.

[Phil M]

Duncan is a game changer, as natural a goal scorer as I’ve seen at the academy for years.

He should go a long, long way.

The next Adam Morgan

[_Redman]

anyone know when's the draw for the youth league?

[Chris~]

anyone know when's the draw for the youth league?

Next February,/march for us as the 2nd placed teams have a play off match vs someone from the champions path.

[plura]

Hoever has looked alright. Wouldn't say he's stood out massively compared to the other defenders though and he looks too small at the moment to play centre back for the frist team. Imagine he was promised some quick progression when signing.

I haven’t seen him myself but read a good few articles about him impressing massively so far. Sure he might have been promised a few things, like being paid attention to. But I doubt he’s not earned everything by his efforts and performances. Like shown with quick progression to the first team.

[Chris~]

I haven’t seen him myself but read a good few articles about him impressing massively so far. Sure he might have been promised a few things, like being paid attention to. But I doubt he’s not earned everything by his efforts and performances. Like shown with quick progression to the first team.

It happens, it also wouldn't be the worst thing we've promised/given a kid to get them to sign up, probably quite standard when signing highly rated players around his age . I'm also not doubting bis effort.

[MNAA]

Hoever earned his progression just as Curtis  Jones and Rafa Camacho had through impressive performances when given the opportunity. He is definitely too good for U18 and have also done well at U23. Watched his performance in the U23 4-0 win over Everton, you can understand why coaches were impressed

[AmanShah21]

Have Bobby Duncan and Ki-Jana Hoever been moved to the U23s yet? It looks like they are too good for the U-18s already so wondering if they have been promoted yet? I know Brewster got promoted to U23 last season and now those 3 look like they'd be training in and around the first team in the near future.

[TepidT2O]

Have Bobby Duncan and Ki-Jana Hoever been moved to the U23s yet? It looks like they are too good for the U-18s already so wondering if they have been promoted yet.

Hoever has already moved to the under 23s, but he didn’t play on Monday as he’s now training with the first team

[dakid]

Woodburn isn't a striker like Duncan though but Brewster is another name to throw into the mix. Hopefully he returns the same player he had been out for alot longer than originally diagnosed and there has been very little spoken about the injury since which is worrying.

Depends on who gets loans. Could be behind Origi, solanke, woodburn, miller, mcauley needing minutes as well.. Both him, Glatzel and a couple others should be seeing more minutes with the u23s soon though, just need to clear out the stagnating u23s.

[demain]

Came across this fascinating interview with Michael Beale, where he describes his journey as a coach from Chelsea, Liverpool, Brazil to Rangers while expounding upon the more important aspects of youth coaching and the constant challenge to keep learning as a coach: https://www.coachesvoice.com/rangers-coach-michael-beale-steven-gerrard-liverpool-chelsea/

Highlights include the philosophical differences between pathways for youth development at Chelsea and Liverpool which convinced him to take a pay cut to leave Chelsea, how Trent Alexander-Arnold stood out at age 15 from his peers, Klopp's enviable capacity to put people at ease when he meets them, and why he agreed to join Gerrard at Rangers.

The following extract underscores why old-school managers like Mourinho are struggling to replicate past success:

Over the course of my time at Liverpool, I realised something. I’d got there as a good coach – but, really, it had very little to do with coaching. It had more to do with how I managed people. Whether they would take the message from me. How motivated I could get them.

The fact that you can coach and know the game helps, but it was about that relationship.

I’d done a lot of studying on open questioning and become used to having open conversations with the boys. In that scenario, I learned you have to have no ego, because not everyone in the group will take to you. You have to spread that around your staff.

Lovely stuff, and would be interested to read PoP's perspective on young coaches like Beale and their contrast with young managers like Stevie.

[HopefulRed]

Adam Lewis and Ki-Jana Hoever still both training with the firsts today.  You would have thought the latter would have been given time off to go home for Christmas but I bet he’s jumped at the chance of staying to train with the firsts. 

Interesting to read in the Echo today that Moreno has claimed he has been offered a new contract but is not signing yet, if at all, rather keeping his options open to offers. 

[Djimi Smicer34]

Bobby Adekanye has told the club he's running down his contract and going to Lazio on a free transfer in the summer according to Neil Jones.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/liverpools-adekanye-set-for-lazio-switch/16jfexhec919a1omz6y1knen5q

[[new username under construction]]

Bobby Adekanye has told the club he's running down his contract and going to Lazio on a free transfer in the summer according to Neil Jones.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/liverpools-adekanye-set-for-lazio-switch/16jfexhec919a1omz6y1knen5q

Meh, he's ok and good at what he does but all round game a bit pants i think

[Chris~]

Right move for him if they are giving him some guarantees, wasn't going to get a look in here and would have had to be loaned out somewhere.

[Djimi Smicer34]

Meh, he's ok and good at what he does but all round game a bit pants i think

I'd agree.

He is talented, very quick and has a good trick in his locker to get away from defenders.  But he reminds me a lot of Adama Traore in that he really lacks end product - seems like it takes him 20-30 shots on goal to score.  That might improve with regular game time at senior level, but Adekanye has never been one that I thought would make the breakthrough at Liverpool.

[hassinator]

Liverpool youngster Bobby Adekanye (19) is set to join Lazio on a free at the end of the season.

#LFC had been keen to extend the Dutch youth international's deal at Anfield, but were left frustrated by the delaying tactics of his agent, Junior Minguella. [@neiljonesgoal]

good player in there but always injured and came here having fucked over barca so no surprise he's on his way.

[TepidT2O]

Couldn’t hit a cows arse with a banjo.

Was never going to make it for that reason.

[hassinator]

Couldn’t hit a cows arse with a banjo.

Was never going to make it for that reason.

quick tho

[RogerTheRed]

Seen a tweet by Shamal Geaorge saying it was “good to be back with the boys. Beat Utd 3-0 and saved two pens”.
Any idea what match this was?
Thanks

[HopefulRed]

Seen a tweet by Shamal Geaorge saying it was “good to be back with the boys. Beat Utd 3-0 and saved two pens”.
Any idea what match this was?
Thanks

An U23 friendly - see @jacklusby_

[Giono]

Adam Lewis and Ki-Jana Hoever still both training with the firsts today.  You would have thought the latter would have been given time off to go home for Christmas but I bet he’s jumped at the chance of staying to train with the firsts. 

Interesting to read in the Echo today that Moreno has claimed he has been offered a new contract but is not signing yet, if at all, rather keeping his options open to offers. 

A few folks have been suggesting that Adam Lewis is ready to step up next season amd replace Moreno. Independent of what anyone thinks about Moreno, do folks who follow our U23 closely believe that Lewis is ready for that step just yet?

My guess is no. That is based on the fact that although his rise has been quick from U18 to U23 to training with the 1st team squad, he still is only 18. That is very young for a defender. I also figure that if Moreno is being offered a new contract that Klopp doesn't think Adam is fully ready to make the step just yet.

I'm curious what folks who follow the U23 much closer than I do think about Lewis. I'd love if we have another TAA on our hands, but TAA was exceptional and not the norm.

[Chris~]

I don't think he is. Think he might lack some athleticism to play there for us to be honest, especially when he first breaks through and would need it more to cover for positioning errors as he gets to grips with the first team. Alexander-Arnold is always going to be the comparison for academy fullbacks and he completely dominated games from right back for the u18s, 23s and England, Lewis did a bit from the u18s, but hasn't anywhere else yet from what I've seen. He'll probably need a loan before coming back, if we're ever going to use loans in that way. Would still be happy to see him at least get on the bench vs Wolves.

[Sinyoro]

A few folks have been suggesting that Adam Lewis is ready to step up next season amd replace Moreno. Independent of what anyone thinks about Moreno, do folks who follow our U23 closely believe that Lewis is ready for that step just yet?

My guess is no. That is based on the fact that although his rise has been quick from U18 to U23 to training with the 1st team squad, he still is only 18. That is very young for a defender. I also figure that if Moreno is being offered a new contract that Klopp doesn't think Adam is fully ready to make the step just yet.

I'm curious what folks who follow the U23 much closer than I do think about Lewis. I'd love if we have another TAA on our hands, but TAA was exceptional and not the norm.

Moreno may be offered a contract in order to protect his value in the event of a sale.

As for Adam Lewis, yes I think he is ready to deputise for Andy. He is a proper footballer, not just a left back. He is very good at everything- defence, offence, setpieces and creativity. He can dribble too.  He is a leader as well which tells you all you need to know about his mentality.

He will get some games next season esp in the cups. The other lad on the right, Neco Williams is also talented but a bit understated

[[new username under construction]]

I think he wouldn't be if it was just Robo and him for the position, I think Milner and Clyne being able to cover there makes it a lot easier to introduce the lad slowly without worrying about buying another left back

[Djimi Smicer34]

Unless we sell Moreno and bring in a new left-back in January, Lewis will more than likely get some opportunities early on in pre-season and then it would down to him to take them.

[HopefulRed]

I don't think he is. Think he might lack some athleticism to play there for us to be honest, especially when he first breaks through and would need it more to cover for positioning errors as he gets to grips with the first team. Alexander-Arnold is always going to be the comparison for academy fullbacks and he completely dominated games from right back for the u18s, 23s and England, Lewis did a bit from the u18s, but hasn't anywhere else yet from what I've seen. He'll probably need a loan before coming back, if we're ever going to use loans in that way. Would still be happy to see him at least get on the bench vs Wolves.

I agree with this.  Lewis is good, but you have to be exceptional to be a second choice and Lewis is no where near ready for that.  There are so many really good academy players just doing well to carve out a role in the Championship, by which I mean the standards are really high.   Lewis is not as good as Moreno (yet) and yet Moreno, who has played for Spain and is a Europa League winner, rarely gets a sniff.   (I’m not saying this because I am a big Moreno fan, I think Moreno is rash in defence, but I think Lewis needs to work a lot more on his defending too).  At this moment I would trust Camacho more at right back than Lewis at LB, but then Camacho has benfitted from 12 months with the 1sts.   Lewis probably needs the same, then a loan in a years time. 

But I really do want Lewis to shine and breakthrough.  I celebrate when our academy kids get a chance.  Just a shame that Klopp hasn’t been able to give any of ours an opportunity so far this season (bar Trent who is completely established already).  For a change Chelsea’s kids, at least Calum Hudson Odoi and Ampadu (ok, so he is really an Exeter developed, but he’s getting minutes despite only being 18.  And Mourinho even gave minutes to Angel Gomes at Man U.  Spurs and Arsenal kids are getting time, and Foden has had a fair bit at City.  We are falling behind.  Maybe a lower league opposition would have helped during the league cup, instead of Chelsea. 

[Djimi Smicer34]

But I really do want Lewis to shine and breakthrough.  I celebrate when our academy kids get a chance.  Just a shame that Klopp hasn’t been able to give any of ours an opportunity so far this season (bar Trent who is completely established already).  For a change Chelsea’s kids, at least Calum Hudson Odoi and Ampadu (ok, so he is really an Exeter developed, but he’s getting minutes despite only being 18.  And Mourinho even gave minutes to Angel Gomes at Man U.  Spurs and Arsenal kids are getting time, and Foden has had a fair bit at City.  We are falling behind.  Maybe a lower league opposition would have helped during the league cup, instead of Chelsea.

That's not true at all.

Hudson-Odoi looks set to leave Chelsea for Germany because of lack of opportunities and Ampadu has been linked with a loan this January given that he's barely had a look-in under Sarri; City are about to lose Brahim Diaz to Real Madrid because of his lack of opportunities there; Solskjaer gave Angel Gomes a few minutes against Huddersfield.

Skipp has gotten a PL start at Spurs, Foden can barely get off the bench at City and Arsenal have given some youngsters run outs in one of the easiest groups in the Europa League.

[lamonti]

I have heard repeatedly through the year that Rhian Brewster was guaranteed first team game time if he signed a pro deal with us rather than move to Borussia Mönchengladbach. Has this been reported by any of the legit sources or is it a case of 2+2=5 from fans?

Isn't it more likely that given he was recovery from a horrific injury that's had him out for at least a year — more now by the looks of it — he just thought it would be better to do it in comfortable surroundings and not in a place where he's a stranger, learning a new language, and with equally little possibility of playing football?

I can't see him being remotely ready for senior football just yet. Happy to be corrected, but I just thought about it again when I heard the "guaranteed game-time" idea repeated again on a TAW transfer podcast.

[Djimi Smicer34]

I have heard repeatedly through the year that Rhian Brewster was guaranteed first team game time if he signed a pro deal with us rather than move to Borussia Mönchengladbach. Has this been reported by any of the legit sources or is it a case of 2+2=5 from fans?

Isn't it more likely that given he was recovery from a horrific injury that's had him out for at least a year — more now by the looks of it — he just thought it would be better to do it in comfortable surroundings and not in a place where he's a stranger, learning a new language, and with equally little possibility of playing football?

I can't see him being remotely ready for senior football just yet. Happy to be corrected, but I just thought about it again when I heard the "guaranteed game-time" idea repeated again on a TAW transfer podcast.

It was in the summer, yes.

[rawcusk8]

I don't think we are falling behind at all. It's easy to give youth a chance when you're playing a pub team from the far ends of Europe. Arse and Chelsea have been afforded that this season but how many of their kids get a chance when it matters? More aimed towards Chelsea than Arsenal. They are in negotiations with Bayern for Odoi, as for Ampadu for all his hype and talent has played 117 minutes. Foden is quality but is he really going to be a starter anytime soon? As for Jose giving youth a chance then

I have huge trust in our academy set up, a little bit of luck with the draws in the cups then the promising kids would have been involved more but it wasn't meant to be.

edit: Brewster will be in with the first team once he's back from injury, if they are good enough they will get their chance eventually.

[Chris~]

Ultimately first team matters more than the academy, so unless we have spare games in the league/CL, or easy cup games, where we are now means the academy kids are going to struggle for game time. Chelsea and Arsenal are kind of where we were in 12/13, but with better squads, in that they can afford to give kids game time, especially in the Europa League. And even then chelsea seem desperate to get players like Loftus-Cheek and Hudson-Odoi to leave.

I think Angel Gomes has about 30 minutes senior football so wouldn't really use him as an example. United should be seeing a few new academy players getting minutes this season though. They're not making top 4 and have some rubbish in that squad they should be phasing out.

[RyanBabel19]

Whatever happened to Juanma? Have we still got him and is he any good?

[Nessy76]

I have heard repeatedly through the year that Rhian Brewster was guaranteed first team game time if he signed a pro deal with us rather than move to Borussia Mönchengladbach. Has this been reported by any of the legit sources or is it a case of 2+2=5 from fans?

Isn't it more likely that given he was recovery from a horrific injury that's had him out for at least a year — more now by the looks of it — he just thought it would be better to do it in comfortable surroundings and not in a place where he's a stranger, learning a new language, and with equally little possibility of playing football?

I can't see him being remotely ready for senior football just yet. Happy to be corrected, but I just thought about it again when I heard the "guaranteed game-time" idea repeated again on a TAW transfer podcast.

Far as I remember it was reported that he was going to be a part of the first team squad. I don't believe anyone really thinks Klopp would do something as daft as to give him a "guarantee" of games.

[Chris~]

Whatever happened to Juanma? Have we still got him and is he any good?

Yes and no