Topic: Comolli and Bruckner leave by mutual consent

[Bob Loblaw]

Ruthless say some, reckless says I.

Whilst people are lining up to praise them for ruthlessly dismissing Comolli for last summer, they’re missing the wood from the trees. The idea that the DoF is perhaps the most long-term role at the football club, and also that it was recklessness on their part initially to hire Comolli in that role through sheer nepotism.
...

One big rudderless ship. All we have to go on is another interview from Tom Werner paying lip service, that's about as much leadership as i see at the club atm and it's fucking depressing.

[SheikhMo]

[Juan Loco]

How much influence does Ayre have do you think? (Not in the Comolli appointment)

I honestly do not know. The best quote I've seen on Ayre so far to sum up my feelings are "not a war time consigliere". I think FSG are probably loathe to upset him given our revenues have been going up and up since he got into the job. Apparently he was pretty poor as a CEO with Huddersfield though.

[Juan Loco]

On TTT:

Wow – night of long knives indeed

And same source has just told me that at least 3 more people losing their jobs today.

Andy Scolding – Head of Technical Analysis
John Achterberg – Frist-team GK coach
Both apparently gone

Am wondering what will happen to Steve Hitchen and Darren Burgess. Hitchen was brought in by Comolli and they worked at Spurs together. Burgess I think was brought in at the same time as Bruckner and enjoyed a close relationship with Comolli.

[Tomo!]

Why Bruckner too?

Seems strange we've not been to bad with injurys under him have we, fixed Torres.?

Saying that we've had Gerrards infection and Carroll was possibly more worse for wear then we thought when we bought him?

[Azzandro]

Kenny to owners 'Part of the problems with this season is that i did not get the players i wanted, Gerrard wasn't fit until December due to infection, in some games we were given wrong tactical advise and Reinas had a dip in form. Blah blah blah our fault as a collective including me/management and underperforming players'

Maybe this is the result?

[Didi_ram]

Hope Valero is back.And if someone like Hitchen also goes,I hope it is the Newcastle scout Graham Carr.

[Davidbowie]

I am really impressed with the ruthlessness shown by the owners. They felt Comolli wasn't doing what he should be and axed him, no messing about. I like it.

[royhendo]

Phenomenal post.

[The G in Gerrard]

I honestly do not know. The best quote I've seen on Ayre so far to sum up my feelings are "not a war time consigliere". I think FSG are probably loathe to upset him given our revenues have been going up and up since he got into the job. Apparently he was pretty poor as a CEO with Huddersfield though.

It has been alleged he got involved in the footballing matters near the end of H&G's reign, do you think that this still may be the case here? When it came to Comolli's dismissal, Kenny's reappointment?

Who is FSG's "go to guy" in Liverpool to assess what happens on a day to day basis?

Note - I don't have reservations on FSG as you do, I think its hard to expect a turn around in fortunes off the field after decades of mismanagement imo.

[redbyrdz]

With you on that.

I asked why Valero hadn't come back before, it was around the time that Pepe was "discouraged", and was told that Pepe would ask for him to come back if he stayed....he stayed, and they hired Achterberg......really strange.

Wasn't Achterberg promoted from the reserves GK coach?

Would be made up if Valero comes back!

[JP-65]

Am wondering what will happen to Steve Hitchen and Darren Burgess. Hitchen was brought in by Comolli and they worked at Spurs together. Burgess I think was brought in at the same time as Bruckner and enjoyed a close relationship with Comolli.

I understand the third is the lawyer.

[buzzing]

Kenny to owners 'Part of the problems with this season is that i did not get the players i wanted, Gerrard wasn't fit until December due to infection, in some games we were given wrong tactical advise and Reinas had a dip in form. Blah blah blah our fault as a collective including me/management and underperforming players'

Maybe this is the result?

To an extendt - Lets nto foret Kenny didn't have to say yes to Carroll, ADam, Downing...etc

[Red_Isle_Chap]

Top post Juan mate, really is food for thought.

[El_Pistolero]

Juan with a belter.

[Eeyore]

Ruthless say some, reckless says I.

Whilst people are lining up to praise them for ruthlessly dismissing Comolli for last summer, they’re missing the wood from the trees. The idea that the DoF is perhaps the most long-term role at the football club, and also that it was recklessness on their part initially to hire Comolli in that role through sheer nepotism.

I’ll be repeating myself a fair bit here, so I’ll just quote what I wrote about the situation last weekend:


My concern was given a bit of credence this morning when I had an email off someone who had been told by a pretty sound journo that Comolli’s appointment was basically suggested by Billy Beane, a baseball man, but a close friend of Comolli’s.

So here we have a couple of businessmen who think of themselves as the Thinking Men of sports business. Their first move after getting in the door is to give the most powerful, all-encompassing role at the football club to a friend of a friend on the recommendation of someone they admire in baseball. Oh yeah, we’re really moving forward and innovating.

It’s arguably a stupider call than Hicks & Gillet using Klinsman as a ‘football consultant’. Arguably that’s exactly what FSG needed. They needed someone who could help them out as they went along, safe in the knowledge that if they were undermining anyone it was a short-term manager who was deeply unpopular with the fans. The total opposite of H&G with Rafa.

But no, FSG with their self-appointed images of being both innovators and gamblers jumped straight in, appointing Damien Comolli to the role of Director of Football Strategy (and then ultimately Director of Football).

As I say, this is an organisation that expects us to grant them time and patience with decisions like the protracted firing of Hodgson, the search for an MD and the non-movement on the stadium front. How can they ask for patience, and expect us to trust they’re carrying out a full and proper search through the best candidates, when they give the role with the most power on the footballing side of things to Comolli on a whim.

This isn’t about the job Damien Comolli did. I happen to think he did alright and that long-term his signings will look better than they currently do. But that’s long-term. Whether you think Comolli pissed money up the wall this summer or not, I think you’ve got to say it is rash to give someone such a long-term role and then sack them so quickly for disappointing.

My point isn’t necessarily about Comolli though – I think he did ok, but I also don’t see what made him the stand-out candidate for the job in the first place, other than he was the only one. That’s kind of the crux of this. Whether you think Comolli was good or bad, the question should be why he got the job in the first place.

There’s plenty on here now praising their vision and their strategy for correcting their mistake so quickly, but once again they seem to have made the decision with no consultation from someone with experience in football, which is what got them into the mess in the first place.

Personally I think a Director of Football is essential at a club our size. I think a coach has to earn that level of power through success, which is what Ferguson and Wenger have done. A club shouldn’t be modeled on the whim of an individual whose job expectancy is usually two years (or at Liverpool probably close to 4-5 in the last 20 years).

You need someone to ensure that the vision remains consistent and unaltered. You need a support system to ensure the manager can do his job with people working around him. It’s about giving Kenny a platform that allows him to do his job. You don’t just give him that platform in name only and then hang him out to dry as has happened countless times this season, specifically with the Suarez case but on other issues as well.

You don’t necessarily call it a Director of Football, because that title carries a certain stigma in this country for some reason. It’s too foreign to swallow perhaps. You have someone in position to carry through that long-term strategy though. If you want Kenny to use more of the kids from the academy you have someone who says that to the press, who says that there isn’t immediate pressure if the results go wrong. You don’t have people giving us a target at the start of the season whilst simultaneously querying why we’re not seeing 5 or 6 home grown teenagers a week (ok, slight hyperbole, but you see what I’m getting at).


I could rant on this a while, but I’m arsed. I’m being asked to place faith in a long-term strategy where people are employed through nepotism, and now we’re being asked to hold faith while they correct that ‘mistake’, with another decision on a whim with seemingly no advice behind it from someone of a football background. We’ll see.

Really good post Juan the mistake for me was not getting an experienced Football CEO like Dein or Barwick in before they appointed Comolli.The biggest worry for me is that they still haven't woken up to the importance of having a shrewd Football administrator on board.Werner talked about Ayres role being about bringing in the funding to the Club when there is far more to the role than that in English Football.

I would much rather have a Peter Robinson figure and a Chief Scout than a Comolli style DoF. The biggest problem with Comolli for me was that he fell between two stools he was neither a football man or a suit.

We need to make the right decisions because LFC is far too important to be used as an experiment by FSG.

[CharlieAdamsLeftFoot]

On TTT:

Wow – night of long knives indeed

And same source has just told me that at least 3 more people losing their jobs today.

Andy Scolding – Head of Technical Analysis
John Achterberg – Frist-team GK coach
Both apparently gone

was hoping that was going to be the case, easily visible since his appointment the decline in Pepe's form.

[TepidT2O]

I honestly do not know. The best quote I've seen on Ayre so far to sum up my feelings are "not a war time consigliere". I think FSG are probably loathe to upset him given our revenues have been going up and up since he got into the job. Apparently he was pretty poor as a CEO with Huddersfield though.

As Werner said, he's an outstanding MD.....



In other words he's not a CEO....


It's why he didn't deal with the Suarez affair well, it's not his forte

[gods_left_peg]

On TTT:

Sorry to sound stupid what is TTT

[nutmegger]

This is getting more comments than a post match thread after a loss

[Alan_X]

Was stephen1martin who tweeted it though. Gives it creedence. To an extent.

Creedence to what? That Kenny asked for the meetings to be brought forward? Or the made-up-shite speculation that Comolli and Bruckner were influencing what was happening on the pitch?

I can understand that Kenny wanted the meetings brought forward for a couple of reasons: To deflect attention away from the players before a big game and to prevent the risk of rumours about sackings (which would include Kenny) leaking out before the game and hanging like a shitty fart over the club during the most important game of the season so far.

But hey, why go for a sensible answer when there's a good conspiracy to be peddled?

[redbyrdz]

This is getting more comments than a post match thread after a loss

Arguably, it is bigger? A loss is a loss, shit happens. This is about our long-term 'strategy', if we believe FSG.

[scouse29]

One big rudderless ship. All we have to go on is another interview from Tom Werner paying lip service, that's about as much leadership as i see at the club atm and it's fucking depressing.

How is it rudderless? The current set up was not working or had failed so FSG are trying an alternative approach. That suggests to me a strong management team.

As for depressing just think back 18 months or so. Look at the two big commercial deals in recent times. Parry would never of secured such a deal. Just look back at the Granada fuck up for one of his shit under selling deals.

[TepidT2O]

Numerous sources confirming that Dein has been at our last two games....


It may mean nothing, it may mean he was acting as a consultant for FSG, it may mean he's inline for the CEO post.....

[JP-65]

Sorry to sound stupid what is TTT

The Tomkins Times

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Can't say I'm surprised if that happens

Not at all, after reading Reina´s autobiography.

[El_Pelusa_10]

Not at all, after reading Reina´s autobiography.

what was said in his book?

[Red Beret]

We have no idea of the mechanics behind this decision.  We can question the timing and the statements and interpret the apparent clumsiness of the situation all we want.  Fact is we don't know. I don't think we need to worry yet about the club having revolving doors installed and becoming like City or Chelsea when it comes to coaches and other staff though.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Creedence to what? That Kenny asked for the meetings to be brought forward? Or the made-up-shite speculation that Comolli and Bruckner were influencing what was happening on the pitch?

I can understand that Kenny wanted the meetings brought forward for a couple of reasons: To deflect attention away from the players before a big game and to prevent the risk of rumours about sackings (which would include Kenny) leaking out before the game and hanging like a shitty fart over the club during the most important game of the season so far.

But hey, why go for a sensible answer when there's a good conspiracy to be peddled?

For the meeting to be brought forward. That´s what he tweeted. Don´t buy into the other stuff.

I just thought Stephen Martin was widely considered to be, oh dear forgive me, "in the know". On here among you mods aswell.

Maybe I´m mistaken.

[Pistolero]

One big rudderless ship. All we have to go on is another interview from Tom Werner paying lip service, that's about as much leadership as i see at the club atm and it's fucking depressing.

nonsense.

[Juan Loco]

It has been alleged he got involved in the footballing matters near the end of H&G's reign, do you think that this still may be the case here? When it came to Comolli's dismissal, Kenny's reappointment?

Who is FSG's "go to guy" in Liverpool to assess what happens on a day to day basis?

Note - I don't have reservations on FSG as you do, I think its hard to expect a turn around in fortunes off the field after decades of mismanagement imo.

I always assumed that part of the reason they went for this set up - MD and a DOF was that they didn't have a go to guy. Basically Ayre does the business, Comolli does the football. I assumed they would ask both. H&G's reign is different entirely for me. An absolute clusterfuck, so I wouldn't really know what to think of Ayre being involved in the footballing side back then.

My reservations with FSG aren't that they aren't turning things around or haven't already. It's not even that they're directionless because I think that is up for debate. My problem is that they're determined to be seen as innovative, calculated-risk takers. They want us to take them seriously as thinking men in football, where every decision is mulled over and analysed and then if it's still debatable, they're not adverse to taking high risk, high reward option.

They want to be seen as that but all their long-term vision, statistical analysis and innovation saw them appoint director of football because he was friends with Billy Beane. Their same long-term vision and strategy has seen them replace that person after less than a full season. It's a massive mistake. Either he was the right man for the job, in which case you give him a lot of time, even in a bad season - or - he was the wrong man for the job and you appointed him on a whim, flying in the face of your principles and pissing on the idea that the fans should trust you 'cos you're a steady pair of hands, when you're employing people on a whim because they're a mate of a mate who isn't even involved in football!

[Red Genius]

How is it rudderless? The current set up was not working or had failed so FSG are trying an alternative approach. That suggests to me a strong management team.

As for depressing just think back 18 months or so. Look at the two big commercial deals in recent times. Parry would never of secured such a deal. Just look back at the Granada fuck up for one of his shit under selling deals.

I agree, they are not here to micro manage, rather steer the ship in the direction they intend and allow those they've put in place to manage that course on a day by day - week to week basis.

They come back after a sizeable chunk of time to re-evaluate that direction and are not happy with the delivery, so are making adjustments.

I see no problem with that at all.

[Alan_X]

I just thought Stephen Martin was widely considered to be, oh dear forgive me, "in the know". On here among you mods aswell.

Maybe I´m mistaken.

I don't know if he's in the know. Do you know?

[Groundskeeper Willie]

what was said in his book?

That he loved working with Valero, but, how do I put it, could tolerate working with Achterberg.

[dast18]

doc was fired cos he failed to get spearing off steroids. fact.

wtf?

[Groundskeeper Willie]

I don't know if he's in the know. Do you know?

Since I wrote "thought", clearly not. It was just the impression I´ve had from here.

[Suareznumber7]

Achterberg gone as well

[TepidT2O]

I always assumed that part of the reason they went for this set up - MD and a DOF was that they didn't have a go to guy. Basically Ayre does the business, Comolli does the football. I assumed they would ask both. H&G's reign is different entirely for me. An absolute clusterfuck, so I wouldn't really know what to think of Ayre being involved in the footballing side back then.

My reservations with FSG aren't that they aren't turning things around or haven't already. It's not even that they're directionless because I think that is up for debate. My problem is that they're determined to be seen as innovative, calculated-risk takers. They want us to take them seriously as thinking men in football, where every decision is mulled over and analysed and then if it's still debatable, they're not adverse to taking high risk, high reward option.

They want to be seen as that but all their long-term vision, statistical analysis and innovation saw them appoint director of football because he was friends with Billy Beane. Their same long-term vision and strategy has seen them replace that person after less than a full season. It's a massive mistake. Either he was the right man for the job, in which case you give him a lot of time, even in a bad season - or - he was the wrong man for the job and you appointed him on a whim, flying in the face of your principles and pissing on the idea that the fans should trust you 'cos you're a steady pair of hands, when you're employing people on a whim because they're a mate of a mate who isn't even involved in football!

Ayre really only got the job though as they couldn't find any one else... He's done a fine job on the business side by all accounts, but a spokesman, a leader of the club he isn't.

[tanvir]

DOF and MD to merge into one role, i.e. CEO. Mr. Ayre, I guess.

[Adeemo]

Numerous sources confirming that Dein has been at our last two games....


It may mean nothing, it may mean he was acting as a consultant for FSG, it may mean he's inline for the CEO post.....

Twitter sources?