Topic: Welcome to Liverpool Ryan Jiro Gravenberch

[classycarra]

I've always maintained all dutch footballers are either the angel/devil archetype - for every seedorf, gakpo or kuyt there's a van persie, bergkamp or heitinga.

van basten, koemen and reizeger are all absolute pricks - and man-children to boot. imagine those two managers having a whinge about him to the press, instead of being professional and just talking directly to him. it's like ten haag - they have a habit of giving away way too much of what happens behind closed doors

[Peabee]

I’ve got a lot of respect for Ryan making that decision. He would have been told to expect some backlash, but he’s put his future and the club first.

I find it confusing those dicks, like Koeman, complaining can’t see why he made the decision. They just sound like pigheaded nationalists.

[MBL?]

I love the decision he's made especially since he would have known there would be backlash. The detractors of this guy all talk about a lack of commitment and then moaning about not playing. I don't see Klopp putting up with that so this is a great start. Nobody doubts the talent Ryan has, it seems to be all about application.

[Samie]

If Sharkman and Sonny Silooy start moaning about it, I'll be very disappointed.

My Goat's would never.

[Beninger]

Under 21 friendly, 4 weeks into a very important season for us and him. The whole state of it can fuck off, as well as anyone taking offense. Dramatic.

[I've been a good boy]

Why would he even want to play for Koeman after this? Fuck him and fuck the Dutch national team, or any national teams for that matter. Club before country always.

[Ghost Town]

Van Basten sticking his beak in now.


Just waiting for the ghost of Rinus Michels, ghost of Johan Cruyff, Ruud Gullit, Johan Neeskens and Frank Rijkaard and my mate Shark to have their say now.

I've got one ear out for Vincent van Gogh's opinion on this

[rossipersempre]

Not like the Dutch football establishment to have loud unsolicited and hypocritical opinions on Gravenberch's completely personal and extremely valid reasons for withdrawing from a pointless U21 squad.

Arseholes.

[MBL?]

Why would he even want to play for Koeman after this? Fuck him and fuck the Dutch national team, or any national teams for that matter. Club before country always.

He still will. Rightly so as well. Most players will hold their national team success above the club game. It was the right choice for him to skipp the u21s but there's no way he would have if it was the seniors.

[wemmick]

If Gravenberch finds top form under Klopp, Koeman and company will change their tune quickly. They'll pretend they never said a thing.

[Samie]

He already has 11 caps for the Dutch senior team. He was put back into the Under 21's to face the might of Moldova Under 21's.  If the Dutch are shit scared of Moldova Under 21's and they need Gravenberch then the Dutch generation coming up is shit as fuck. 

[farawayred]

Mountains out of mole hills, but I think that whole situation could have been handled more gracefully. His agent could have informed the coach that due to Ryan's move he intends to stay with the club for the first international break, the coach could not have called him up, and all would have been nice and dandy.

[Bobinhood]

If Gravenberch finds top form under Klopp, Koeman and company will change their tune quickly. They'll pretend they never said a thing.

 

100%

[Bobinhood]

Mountains out of mole hills, but I think that whole situation could have been handled more gracefully. His agent could have informed the coach that due to Ryan's move he intends to stay with the club for the first international break, the coach could not have called him up, and all would have been nice and dandy.

Also 100%

[The_Nomad]

I've got one ear out for Vincent van Gogh's opinion on this

Well played sir. Well played. 

[MNAA]

If Sharkman and Sonny Silooy start moaning about it, I'll be very disappointed.

Sonny Silooy. Always like that name. Another one was Jan Jongbloed

[Knight]

Well in Ryan - one weekend in and he's caused an international incident. Love him already

National FAs - every single one - can all get to absolute fuck. I'll never understand the masochism from footballers as a whole, with the collectivism available to them with their unions, that they still in 2023 tolerate being lorded over by a bunch of old men in suits who never played football.

They're throwing their toys out the pram over not having a substitute available for their Championship level group games (despite dropping him for shite at the world cup) - no sign of compassion from any of his managers (former players too) for him having just arrived in a new city for a new job.

Forgive me carra but I did find your, shall we say, strong take, quite amusing given this just above it from Ghost.

It's just part of the way everything has to be absolutist these days. There seems little room for considered, thoughtful reactions that take context and other factors into account. A lot of it is driven by 'optics' a notion so dumb it was clearly devised by someone who had been at the other type of optics.

Hmm, does that sound a bit absolutist?

Anyway, good on Gravenberch for staying back. Much, much better for him to get used to living here, sorting the sorts of stuff involved in moving country and getting settled in at work than jetting off for the u21s.

[spider-neil]

Staying behind to focus on his Liverpool career? I thought Gravenberch had an attitude problem?

[Enders]

Sonny Silooy. Always like that name. Another one was Jan Jongbloed

Passed away last week aged 82 - RIP

[Paul1611]

I hope big Virg is on the phone to that dick reiziger telling him to do one

[rob1966]

Its actually a win for the Dutch U21s. He gets up to speed with Klopps tactics, they work on his fitness, he trains with the best midfield in the world, he starts to get game time, he's ready to go when they actually need him to be.

[El Denzel Pepito]

Mountains out of mole hills, but I think that whole situation could have been handled more gracefully. His agent could have informed the coach that due to Ryan's move he intends to stay with the club for the first international break, the coach could not have called him up, and all would have been nice and dandy.

Yep, and even though it played out the way it did, you'd expect Koeman to remain amicable and say something along the lines of "Of course it's disappointing but I understand Ryan's decision since he's made a big move for his career and it's important for him to integrate into his new club. Ryan finding form at Liverpool will benefit the international team in the future so whilst I wish he could be with us, I understand his reasons and look forward to seeing him during the next international break".

Instead, he chose to hang him out to dry. Ridiculous comments from a manager.

[ThePoolMan]

The Dutch under 21 are playing Moldavia and North Macedonia - if they cannot win those two matches without Gravenbirch, the Dutch have much bigger problems. If these national team managers can think beyond the immediate short term (which they clearly cannot), they should have realised immediately it will only be of help to Gravenbirch's future for the national team if he can settle in as fast as possible for his new club in the toughest and most physical league in the world and earn a regular place in the Liverpool first team and improve as fast as possible. This is especially so given that he has been going backwards for the whole of last season at Munich which was a wasted year at such a crucial stage of his development. But of course they only reveal their own total lack of any concern for the player and his ability to fulfil his vast potential and their preoccupation to exploit him for th ehere and now as much as possible. 

Kudos to Gravenbirch for showing his commitment to his new club.

[lamonti]

Dutch people provided their opinions on something? Shocking.

[MD1990]

Good for us.
You can sense he will be out of the Netherlands squads for a few camps now.

[classycarra]

Forgive me carra but I did find your, shall we say, strong take, quite amusing given this just above it from Ghost.

hahaha nice juxtaposition - I don't think (but cant remember) I'd read posts above, so think it was a funny coincidence rather than inception!

[DonkeyWan]

Ok - it is still absolutely stupid!  Especially as by the age of 23, 95% of players who are destined for the top should be better than starting piddling U21 games.  If the idea is that they should be able to play all the games - then make it genuinely under the age of 21 at the start of qualifying (or even better under 20) - qualifying matches have barely started and players are already 21! 

The problem with that is smaller nations (i.e. Ireland, Republic of), might only have a handful of talents every decade or so. If they started qualifying and got their team to the tournament, but then weren't allowed play, the team would get absolutely hockied and the player themselves would be denied an international tournament by dint of timing. So, to make it fairer for all, they allow players who start a campaign to finish a campaign.

[Scottymuser]

The problem with that is smaller nations (i.e. Ireland, Republic of), might only have a handful of talents every decade or so. If they started qualifying and got their team to the tournament, but then weren't allowed play, the team would get absolutely hockied and the player themselves would be denied an international tournament by dint of timing. So, to make it fairer for all, they allow players who start a campaign to finish a campaign.

I understand that - that's why I suggested the birth year should be moved earlier - my major issue is that with this rule, it means that a player that has established himself in the senior squad (which Ryan had until Koeman came back) could, say, go to the Under 21s this year, the Euros next year, the Under 21s again in 2025, then the WC in 2026 - effectively having 4 summers were they are playing a month long tournament - but someone who is slightly older would would have 2 of the summers off. 

[shank94]

Boo hoo he doesn’t want to play against Malaria and North Malaria. Shut it Keyman

[Aeon]

Ηi friends, I live in shitty Belgium. I am not Belgian, Dutch ot British.
 
I think Belgians and Dutch would compete for the title of the worst of humanity, if there was such competition.

Their lack of perspective and their thickness surprise you every day.

I hope this helps the conversation.

[tubby]

Ηi friends, I live in shitty Belgium. I am not Belgian, Dutch ot British.
 
I think Belgians and Dutch would compete for the title of the worst of humanity, if there was such competition.

Their lack of perspective and their thickness surprise you every day.

I hope this helps the conversation.

Thanks for clearing things up.

[newterp]

Austin Powers needs to weigh in here.

[Crosby Nick]

Sonny Silooy. Always like that name. Another one was Jan Jongbloed

Sydney’s brother?

[Red Cactii]

Mountains out of mole hills, but I think that whole situation could have been handled more gracefully. His agent could have informed the coach that due to Ryan's move he intends to stay with the club for the first international break, the coach could not have called him up, and all would have been nice and dandy.

I reckon the agent probably did that but they picked him anyway to try and prove some point. I'm sure the Netherlands captain will be asking Koeman what the fuck he was playing at digging out his new club teammate like that.

[Samie]

His reaction to hearing YNWA. 

https://twitter.com/TheAnfieldTalk/status/1698994035556286771

[So… Howard Philips]

Anyone concerned that Pep Ljinders maybe in his ear touting his ‘tactics tome’?

Ryan May wish he’d turned up with his boots for the kick around with Moldova.

[Samie]

 

[AmanShah21]

His body language gives me a little bit of the Gini vibes, mostly because i miss Gini's wide smile and crinkly eyes, but it'd be nice to have someone with that sort of personality again in the locker room.

[spider-neil]

‘…and then he laughed when I said you’re a good coach’.

[Tobez]

Ηi friends, I live in shitty Belgium. I am not Belgian, Dutch ot British.
 
I think Belgians and Dutch would compete for the title of the worst of humanity, if there was such competition.

Their lack of perspective and their thickness surprise you every day.

I hope this helps the conversation.

As a fellow expat living in Belgium, this is a bit harsh. I love this place!