Topic: Dog Attacks

[jillcwhomever]

I read it like that as well - sorry if thats not what you meant but read like that to me

He was explaining how the dog reacts not blaming anyone.

[Elmo!]

It's a difficult subject this, but I think anyone saying either "it's the owners", or "it's the dog breed" is wrong, as always it's never black and white and the problem sits somewhere in the middle.

I do get annoyed by my mum and her partner, who have a lovely dog who wouldn't harm anyone, but he's fast, reasonably big (cross between a beagle and a pointer) and doesn't have the best recall. He was a rescue, though wasn't really mistreated, he just had an owner who wasn't capable of looking after him with the right amount of excercise and training as a puppy. They let him off the lead in places I don't think they should and he does go running up to people - just to say hello (and looking for treats...) but I've no doubt he can be intimidating. He does wear one of those collars where you can remotely give him a shock in case he does misbehave.

[rob1966]

I read it like that as well - sorry if thats not what you meant but read like that to me

Didn't think it did, its pretty obvious to me I'm not blaming, just describing actions that trigger predators.

Jill was talking about dickheads not watching their dogs and how she was chased. It's because her cycling triggered the dog - as far as I'm concerned, in public places, ALL dogs should be on leads, you can't turn your back on them as they will do stuff out of instinct. This poor kid was just running past, as kids do and the dog was triggered. Then the fella running, without knowing, is triggering the dog with his actions, end of the day its a predator and they, totally innocently, are displaying prey behaviour. It's not stuff we should have to know in the UK.

[reddebs]

That was the point that Alan was making above though - German Shepherds and Rottweilers were bred to be working dogs, specifically to herd and protect livestock. If they are poorly trained they can be disruptive through their herding instinct or potentially dangerous to a stranger who encroaches on their 'territory' or threatens their 'flock'. But that is very different to the various breeds that were bred (or whose ancestor breeds were bred) to fight other dogs or bulls, whose natural instinct if poorly trained is to aggressively maim and kill.

That dog walker who got killed a while back is an example of what I mean - as far as the news reports say, whilst she was attacked by all the dogs, it was her own Bully XL that went for her throat and killed her.

The above goes for what you might call negligent, lazy or inexperienced owners. In the hands of an abusive owner any dog breed can and likely will become dangerous (with the level of danger depending on the size of the dog).

I've had border collies for over 20yrs and would never recommend them as a family pet unless they do some proper research into the breed.

They will naturally 'herd' your kids and control their behaviour with a nip as they would with unruly sheep. 

Over a thousand years of breeding isn't easily or quickly bred out of them.

[rob1966]

I've had border collies for over 20yrs and would never recommend them as a family pet unless they do some proper research into the breed.

They will naturally 'herd' your kids and control their behaviour with a nip as they would with unruly sheep. 

Over a thousand years of breeding isn't easily or quickly bred out of them.

My dickhead Dad bought one from a farm in Wales, fucking hell, he was a nightmare - did exactly as you say, used to herd his nephews, nices and daughters mates about the house, nipping at ankles, had far too much energy, should never have been sold to my Dad.

[jillcwhomever]

My dickhead Dad bought one from a farm in Wales, fucking hell, he was a nightmare - did exactly as you say, used to herd his nephews, nices and daughters mates about the house, nipping at ankles, had far too much energy, should never have been sold to my Dad.

They need to target the breeders as well, working dogs shouldn’t be sold to families full stop. It amazes me how many I see on the prom, where I live.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Funny reading some replies in here.

Its not the dog type, its the owner. Its exactly the same tripe you hear from American gun nuts.

Its not the super powerful, high calibre, 20 rounds a second assault weapons that's the issue, its the owner.

Dead right lol.

The very same thought occurred to me earlier.

[Wool]

Reading the report, the incident all started with this Bully xl when the young girl ran past. This triggers the predator in the dog, as prey runs, non prey stands its ground. I noticed the last fella it attacked was also running and it targeted him, this could just have easily been a small terrier going for the kid and even a small terrier is capable of giving a fatal bite to a child.

If someone running is enough to set them off and attack/potentially kill someone it’s even more reason this breed should be outlawed.

[Jiminy Cricket]

It was all the little girl's fault. She deserved it. Running like that. What was she playing at?

Yep. What we need is good people with Bully XLs.

[Jiminy Cricket]

The knee jerk media and knee jerk Govt never learn this. They banned the pit bull, the Tosa and a few others and the dickheads just find other dogs to train to be lethal. It'll be Staffies, Alsations, Dobermans, Rottweilers, whatever they can get to train, that'll be the net "hard man" dog. From what I've read, the bully was bred from the Pit Bull with the intention of removing the aggression that is inherent in the pit bull, but any dog can be trained to be aggressive. One of the worse dogs I've ever known was my mates Alsation/Labrador cross, that was a fucking psycho and he'd not trained it that way, it was just the dogs personality.

And that's the problem. Comments along the lines of, it is the owner, not the dog, misses the point that - like people - some dogs are mental and were born or degenerated that way. If the dog is built to take down a bull, then that's fucking huge problem.

I have no time for dog owners who help perpetuate the problem for trying to excuse the problem and some problem owners. There always will be problem owners for so long as they are permitted to own (potentially) dangerous dogs. And even small dogs can be an absolute menace.

[CraigDS]

Terriers were bred to chase small things that run, and there are many many attacks by them on kids (and other animals). These should be banned too then, no?

[jillcwhomever]

Terriers were bred to chase small things that run, and there are many many attacks by them on kids (and other animals). These should be banned too then, no?

I wouldn’t buy a terrier for the reasons you have stated, plenty of people do though.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Terriers were bred to chase small things that run, and there are many many attacks by them on kids (and other animals). These should be banned too then, no?

Yes. Why not?

[rob1966]

Yep. What we need is good people with Bully XLs.

That's not what I'm saying ffs.

And that's the problem. Comments along the lines of, it is the owner, not the dog, misses the point that - like people - some dogs are mental and were born or degenerated that way. If the dog is built to take down a bull, then that's fucking huge problem.

I have no time for dog owners who help perpetuate the problem for trying to excuse the problem and some problem owners. There always will be problem owners for so long as they are permitted to own (potentially) dangerous dogs. And even small dogs can be an absolute menace.

You've just described every dog in the UK. The only answer then is to ban and destroy every dog in the UK, ban the import/breeding/ownership, give long jail terms to anyone owning a dog. Won't work though, criminals still get hold of guns, dickheads will still get hold of the dogs.

[Chakan]

Yes. Why not?

So what breed of dog would you be comfortable with? I mean we've ruled out all the terrier classes, staffies, bullies, alsatians, collies...

I mean what's left?

[Jiminy Cricket]

That's not what I'm saying ffs.

You've just described every dog in the UK. The only answer then is to ban and destroy every dog in the UK, ban the import/breeding/ownership, give long jail terms to anyone owning a dog. Won't work though, criminals still get hold of guns, dickheads will still get hold of the dogs.

Did I? Your words, not mine. So, what's the logical conclusion?

[Nobby Reserve]

Terriers were bred to chase small things that run, and there are many many attacks by them on kids (and other animals). These should be banned too then, no?

The difference is the size & strength of the dog, and therefore how easily they can cause a lot of damage and how difficult it is to defend against one/stop one attacking someone/another pet.

Terriers also covers a huge range of dogs, from Yorkshire Terriers to Pit Pull Terriers.

When we hear of maulings by dogs leading to death or serious injury, it almost always is done by a handful of breeds - and all of those are large/muscular.


As I say, make owners criminally responsible for the actions of their dogs. I think there'd quickly be a revision of behaviour by most (ie, putting them on leads/muzzling the dog... or even just not buying 'dickhead breeds')

[Jiminy Cricket]

So what breed of dog would you be comfortable with? I mean we've ruled out all the terrier classes, staffies, bullies, alsatians, collies...

I mean what's left?

I think if dog owners wish to argue that not all dog breads should be banned, they'd do well to not argue that it is the owner, not the dog, so all dogs breads are OK. It is a similar argument to that used by those who do not support banning assault rifles in the US. 'If someone intends to kill someone, they will find a way', and similar shite.

[Chakan]

I think if dog owners wish to argue that not all dog breads should be banned, they'd do well to not argue that it is the owner, not the dog, so all dogs breads are OK. It is a similar argument to that used by those who do not support banning assault rifles in the US. 'If someone intends to kill someone, they will find a way', and similar shite.

You can't compare it guns, guns have 1 purpose. Dogs don't.

[Crosby Nick]

Yep. What we need is good people with Bully XLs.

By the way, in no way was Rob putting the blame on the people running, I thought that was pretty clear.

[Wool]

Recent statistics show the concerning involvement of XL bullies in fatal dog attacks. In 2021, two out of four fatal dog attacks in the UK were attributed to XL bullies. This number increased to at least six out of ten attacks in 2022. XL bullies accounted for 45% of dog attacks on humans and other dogs this year.

🤷🏽

[Crosby Nick]

I’d literally never heard of an XL Bully until the other day. How long have they been around?

[Jiminy Cricket]

By the way, in no way was Rob putting the blame on the people running, I thought that was pretty clear.

Oh, I realised that. But there was an opportunity to post 'a funny' which also happened allow me to make a point too.

[Nobby Reserve]

By the way, in no way was Rob putting the blame on the people running, I thought that was pretty clear.

I didn't think he was blaming the people running, but it came across that he was somehow excusing the dog as it was just following its primal instrinct.

[Jiminy Cricket]

You can't compare it guns, guns have 1 purpose. Dogs don't.

Firearms are used in sport. They are used to protect livestock. They are used in hunting. They are used as a dick extension. They are used to murder.

Whereas dogs are used...

[Nobby Reserve]

You can't compare it guns, guns have 1 purpose. Dogs don't.

So the problem minority of dog-owners, the purpose is pretty similar.

You can't want round carrying a deadly weapon like a knife or a gun in this country (to project your menace onto other people) but you can walk round with a deadly weapon like a bulldog breed or mastiff or the like.

[thejbs]

I like dogs. Always have. But I’d love to be able to go on a walk without having to see a dog taking a shit on the pavement. I also hate that private walking routes in Ireland have been closed off because dickhead dog owners won’t heed ‘no dogs’ signs.

[Andy82lfc]

I don't know what the answer is but have plenty of experience having been bitten a few times and having dogs myself. At the absolute minimum all dogs should be on leads in ALL public spaces at ALL times by law. Like many other countries there should be designated pens inside parks where dogs can socialise and run around at will. That would at the very least have stopped my last two attacks in parks, not to mention help people enjoy time more who don't like dogs or have small children.

In terms of the more aggressive breeds I'm really of the thought of banning a lot of them, yes including staffies and others. It won't solve everything but I can't see many scals wanting to act hard with a poodle or golden retriever and as a lot say it will stop the "bad owners" wanting them. Yes poodles, retrievers, etc can all cause attacks too but it should become more niche and it's all about narrowing it down.

Can't honestly see why people would have a big issue with that. Instead of your next dog being a staffie its a Lab or spaniel instead. Seriously what is the big problem with that?

[Chakan]

Firearms are used in sport. They are used to protect livestock. They are used in hunting. They are used as a dick extension. They are used to murder.

Whereas dogs are used...

Guns are made to hurt. Dogs aren't.

What is the instinct of a gun? Guns are inanimate objects. You control the purpose of a gun, plain and simple.

Dogs are living, breathing, entities that control themselves.

Comparing one to the other is useless.

[Trump's tiny tiny hands]

Probably the weirdest thing I found since living in London is finding all these larger dog breeds here. What purpose does it serve other than boring the living shit out of them, or driving them mad, with a lack of activity.

[Draex]

Dogs are animals at the end of the day, doesn't matter how much training you give them.

We have a working cocker spaniel, very well trained, we spent hours and hours in empty fields training him so he comes back to recall.

Still wouldn't leave him alone with our 5 week old baby.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Just so that I'm on the same page.

Do all of you that are in the blame the dog brigade also think that Bull Mastiffs should be banned ?

How about the Cane Corso , Staffies, Rotties, German Sheps & please answer about each breed.

[jillcwhomever]

Guns are made to hurt. Dogs aren't.

What is the instinct of a gun? Guns are inanimate objects. You control the purpose of a gun, plain and simple.

Dogs are living, breathing, entities that control themselves.

Comparing one to the other is useless.

How do you classify dangerous dogs though one which are bred for fighting specifically?

[jillcwhomever]

Just so that I'm on the same page.

Do all of you that are in the blame the dog brigade also think that Bull Mastiffs should be banned ?

How about the Cane Corso , Staffies, Rotties, German Sheps & please answer about each breed.

Those dogs should be muzzled when they are in public places they shouldn’t be running around freely among children or wildlife for that matter.

[ljycb]

Those dogs should be muzzled when they are in public places they shouldn’t be running around freely among children or wildlife for that matter.

It actually makes sense to muzzle all dogs when walking them, especially while we live in a society where people still litter.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Just so that I'm on the same page.

Do all of you that are in the blame the dog brigade also think that Bull Mastiffs should be banned ?

How about the Cane Corso , Staffies, Rotties, German Sheps & please answer about each breed.

I think that whatever the solution is it needs to be more subtle than simply banning breeds - probably something along the lines of the licenses you need to keep dangerous wild animals.

Bull Mastiffs; Cane Corsos; Rottweilers and German Shepherds were all bred for livestock protection/herding and as such have different instincts to dogs that were originally bred to fight.

Staffies are probably in a bit of a grey area I guess.

[Andy82lfc]

Those dogs should be muzzled when they are in public places they shouldn’t be running around freely among children or wildlife for that matter.

At the absolute minimum that's what should be happening and on lead at all times. It blows my mind to sometimes see owners letting these types of dog run around children and others in parks. So irresponsible and also unfair to other people who want to enjoy the same area but don't like dogs, or many who are scared of dogs. Such shitty, selfish behaviour.

[Chakan]

How do you classify dangerous dogs though one which are bred for fighting specifically?

Just the way they are trained to fight they can be trained to not fight. But I wouldn't specifically own one unless it's been fully trained out of fighting. When a bully/staffie/whatever dog is born it has an instinct to protect/fight/herd/whatever. But with training you can train them to go against their natural instincts to a point.

I still wouldn't have that dog out without a leash or be in total control of that animal before I take it out.

If you can't control the animal you shouldn't have it. Plain and simple.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Those dogs should be muzzled when they are in public places they shouldn’t be running around freely among children or wildlife for that matter.

Would you put St. Bernards, Golden Retrievers, Border Collies & Great Danes in the same bracket ?

When I was growing up everybody wanted German Sheps & Chow Chows banned.

[B0151?]

But certain type of dogs only seem to attract bad owners. Without those owners the extremely aggressive breeds wouldn’t have been created.

The thing is as soon as you ban one breed another breed equally capable of destruction will become that type of knobheads favourite breed. It's great for headlines to say we will stop dog attacks by banning this breed but how much will it actually solve.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do anything mind. Just there has been a number of breeds banned over the years and a new popular one pops up with the same headlines so its definitely not a problem that is solved with a magic ban of a breed (which given how many different variants of breeds and the potential to create a new variant is a pretty hard thing to.even police)