Topic: FSG discussion thread

[Egyptian36]

That is not true. I've seen locals with Liverpool accents okay with Liverpool being sportwashed either on Youtube, Tiktok or other social media places. This is not just exclusive to global fans but rather a problem with social media fans.

I said most. You seeing some of them on TikTok doesn't make it not true.
Did you see the Arab LFC communities btw ? they are embarrassing

[JRed]

Most of us do not want sportswashers. We all want Liverpool to be able to compete. The way the league is going we will have to compete with several sportswashing regimes plus united.
How are we going to compete? No, I don’t want us owned by a sportswashing regime so I really just don’t know what the answer is.

[Billy Elliot]

, you will not find a Butcher or self-made person in Liverpool with the required $4Bn to own the club.

That just had me wondering where Norwich would be if Bernard Matthews had bought them. They'd be booootiful.

[lionel_messias]

Most of us do not want sportswashers. We all want Liverpool to be able to compete. The way the league is going we will have to compete with several sportswashing regimes plus united.
How are we going to compete? No, I don’t want us owned by a sportswashing regime so I really just don’t know what the answer is.

I don't know if the answer is possible but a very very wealthy American Group that sees a link between our club's intrinsic value and a time when individual match streaming rights (on Apple or whoever) will be more than they are now. If that sort of owner could provide Klopp with around £275 million initially, and insist on a new and powerful Director of Football, who would ultimately be in place when Klopp moves on - would be ideal. For me.

I have little idea how top financiers see football panning out over the next 10 years, this is key because Global TV rights and commerce should be among the highest in the World for Liverpool. But to compete with City, United, Newcastle, Arsenal and Chelsea will cost a pretty penny, longterm.

[Avens]

I don't know if the answer is possible but a very very wealthy American Group that sees a link between our club's intrinsic value and a time when individual match streaming rights (on Apple or whoever) will be more than they are now. If that sort of owner could provide Klopp with around £275 million initially, and insist on a new and powerful Director of Football, who would ultimately be in place when Klopp moves on - would be ideal. For me.

I have little idea how top financiers see football panning out over the next 10 years, this is key because Global TV rights and commerce should be among the highest in the World for Liverpool. But to compete with City, United, Newcastle, Arsenal and Chelsea will cost a pretty penny, longterm.

Honestly, they don't even have to be wealthy. The club earns enough itself to sustainably compete. FSG have done a great job of it until recently and at this point, if the purse strings are loosened to allow us to buy when we need to we will continue to compete. It doesn't have to be FSG money, just LFC-generated money, of which there is plenty.

City and Newcastle need states to fund them because, unlike us, they don't earn enough to do it themselves.

[Henry Gale]

Honestly, they don't even have to be wealthy. The club earns enough itself to sustainably compete. FSG have done a great job of it until recently and at this point, if the purse strings are loosened to allow us to buy when we need to we will continue to compete. It doesn't have to be FSG money, just LFC-generated money, of which there is plenty.

City and Newcastle need states to fund them because, unlike us, they don't earn enough to do it themselves.

Wouldn't that just put us in the exact same position we are in now?

[arabliverpool90]

I don't understand why linking the FSG with Trump ? John Henry is from Boston a state that is considered one of the most Liberal states in the US, more Liberal than any place in the UK, I know that doesn't mean he himself is a Liberal, but from the articles I read it seemed that 90% of the donations went to the Democrats which means that the  FSG are mostly Liberal.

[Historical Fool]

I think you should think a bit more before coming out with jawdropping generalisations like those

None of this really matters in the end. None of it. Everything is utterly pointless. Even football. Nothing whatsoever really matters.

[MJD-L4]

I think most local supporters do care and they are who matters the most.
Most of global fans don't care simply because they saw how corrupt the Premier League and the UK government are after what happened at Man City, thier thinking is milk a stupid rich people like what everyone else is doing.

Sigh 

[24/7]

None of this really matters in the end. None of it. Everything is utterly pointless. Even football. Nothing whatsoever really matters.

Correct. However, I've been invited to moderate this forum by its owners. So that's what I do, until such point I don't want to any more. Everything is a choice.

[Billy Elliot]

Sigh 

I don't really agree that OOT's would want some weird sugar daddy any more or less than locals. But don't see what's wrong with saying locals matter more.

It's their city the team are representing. If the club does anything immoral, it impact the reputation of the city of Liverpool more than any other City. And locals have the Club in their back garden, where as you and I don't.

I don't get why OOT's (like myself) get upset when it's said that local fans are most important - they simply are.

[SamLad]

None of this really matters in the end. None of it. Everything is utterly pointless. Even football. Nothing whatsoever really matters.

whoa, easy on mate. I don't think I can take all the enthusiasm.

[24/7]

whoa, easy on mate. I don't think I can take all the enthusiasm.

He's quoting me, don't worry. It seems to be some sort of game

[Redric1970]

The top middle and bottom of it is we won’t make top 4 (I’ve already had a bet to be donated to RAWK), the team has been allowed to age at a position of being one of the top 2-3 teams in world football last year to a complete joke this year and this is no exaggeration has the ever been a bigger implosion than this in world football going from being pretty much unbeatable to an absolute shambles, and if anyone has seen anything that looks remotely like a team that can go on a massive winning run well you’ve been watching something different to most of us. Forget that money chart showing us third next season we will drop 5-6 places without the £60-£100mil Cl football brings, the facts are we’ve spent £280ish or whatever it is net in the last 10 years that quite simply doesn’t work anymore that’s a fact spending £30mil per season won’t work, if FSG stay or sell a minority stake that money needs to be invested in the team not some penguin ice hockey players because quite simply if our manager can’t rebuild this team forget competing with city and Real Madrid.

[arabliverpool90]

Without global fans the club wouldn't been 2nd in the most revenue. Not saying that locals don't matter, everyone matters and don't take it the wrong way 

[MJD-L4]

I don't really agree that OOT's would want some weird sugar daddy any more or less than locals. But don't see what's wrong with saying locals matter more.

It's their city the team are representing. If the club does anything immoral, it impact the reputation of the city of Liverpool more than any other City. And locals have the Club in their back garden, where as you and I don't.

I don't get why OOT's (like myself) get upset when it's said that local fans are most important - they simply are.

I see your point and you raise a good one regarding the clubs decisions impacting the local area. I get it.

We're all in this together though and we all want what is best for the club.

I just get fed up with the constant implication from some fans that my support means less because I wasn't born within a certain radius of Anfield.

[Mister Flip Flop]

The decision on who buys the club will be made on profit and profit alone for the owners. FSG are a business, they ain't turning down an extra billion or whatever because the new owners are morally corrupt. For me the decision to sell was made the minute ESL went south and i'd say FSG where left bewildered by objections to it especially by our own supporters. I'm not saying it was perfect and it needed some tuning especially in regards promotion and relegation but it gave us a chance to compete with the oil clubs long term and have success.

FFP and ESL failing will change football forever and i fear it will leave many including myself no choice but to walk away from the club iv'e supported nearly 50 years.

[Macc77]

I see your point and you raise a good one regarding the clubs decisions impacting the local area. I get it.

We're all in this together though and we all want what is best for the club.

I just get fed up with the constant implication from some fans that my support means less because I wasn't born within a certain radius of Anfield.

I have a good mate from Ireland, now lives in the US, he loves the club with every bit as much passion as I do, and I'm from Liverpool and have been going the game since the 80s. My birthplace and ability to go to games doesn't make me any more a fan than him, I agree with your general point.

However, as he'll admit, when Liverpool win or lose it has no effect on where he lives. It doesn't generate discussion in the local bars, in his street, at his kids school, at work. He is an individual amidst a general population of people who do not share his passion, so he lives and breathes it alone to some degree or via his mates back here or the odd person there who also shares his passion.

In Liverpool the plight of the club seeps into loads of things. You go into work, to school, down the local, chat to the fella down the road, and the results and the state of the club matter in a more direct sense. The way the club behaves has an impact on the city, good or bad, and frames peoples perceptions of it and therefore of those living there. It's an everyday thing that people far away from the city never have to contend with to any degree, because in the majority of instances a Liverpool fan in the US, Japan, Indonesia or even Surrey etc isn't identified by others as being linked to the city, but rather linked to the football club, and won't be asked to justify or explain stuff about the city in the way locals will. 

I lived in London for years. Cockney Reds I've worked with were never asked about Liverpool in the wider sense of the city, but it always happened to me. I was the Scouse Liverpool fan, I knew what was going on in the city, etc, so the tone was different when talking to other football fans than it was when those same people discussed football with Liverpool fans from London. It's a subtle difference. Non-locals are no less important, but their identity is different.

[Egyptian36]

I see your point and you raise a good one regarding the clubs decisions impacting the local area. I get it.

We're all in this together though and we all want what is best for the club.

I just get fed up with the constant implication from some fans that my support means less because I wasn't born within a certain radius of Anfield.

Nobody said it means less. I am not local myself but it's their City and LFC represents their City. Whatever happens it effects them the most just look at the area around Man City. Their demands matters more. I don't know why this triggered your inferiority complex.

[Pistolero]

I have a good mate from Ireland, now lives in the US, he loves the club with every bit as much passion as I do, and I'm from Liverpool and have been going the game since the 80s. My birthplace and ability to go to games doesn't make me any more a fan than him, I agree with your general point.

However, as he'll admit, when Liverpool win or lose it has no effect on where he lives. It doesn't generate discussion in the local bars, in his street, at his kids school, at work. He is an individual amidst a general population of people who do not share his passion, so he lives and breathes it alone to some degree or via his mates back here or the odd person there who also shares his passion.

In Liverpool the plight of the club seeps into loads of things. You go into work, to school, down the local, chat to the fella down the road, and the results and the state of the club matter in a more direct sense. The way the club behaves has an impact on the city, good or bad, and frames peoples perceptions of it and therefore of those living there. It's an everyday thing that people far away from the city never have to contend with to any degree, because in the majority of instances a Liverpool fan in the US, Japan, Indonesia or even Surrey etc isn't identified by others as being linked to the city, but rather linked to the football club, and won't be asked to justify or explain stuff about the city in the way locals will. 

I lived in London for years. Cockney Reds I've worked with were never asked about Liverpool in the wider sense of the city, but it always happened to me. I was the Scouse Liverpool fan, I knew what was going on in the city, etc, so the tone was different when talking to other football fans than it was when those same people discussed football with Liverpool fans from London. It's a subtle difference. Non-locals are no less important, but their identity is different.

Good post mate...I think you've identified and explained the key difference there

[MJD-L4]

Nobody said it means less. I am not local myself but it's their City and LFC represents their City. Whatever happens it effects them the most just look at the area around Man City. Their demands matters more. I don't know why this triggered your inferiority complex.

Not what you said earlier is it?

You (interestingly since you claim to be an OOT fan) made a sweeping generalisation that fans from outside Liverpool don't care about the image of the club and that we're all happy to milk a sportwashing regime for success which is simply not true.

Anyway, I'm not in the business of getting into long drawn out arguments on here so I'm off now.

[vblfc]

I don’t think this is a local or OOT. thing. I also suspect FSG likely don’t see this as most/many of us would see this (to be fair I don’t know). They are businesssmen with an investment after all, looking for a return.
But I would like to be sure that any future partner or owner will know that using Liverpool, Anfield, The Kop, liverbird,  the fans etc as images to enrich their “image” is not something we want or support.  It doesn’t sit well with us to have the sportswashed package, the SM bots, the doctored videos with the false fans, the idolising of the owners etc.
sorry - Probably not making my point well - but believe it is better we make it before it’s a done deal, if it is to have any impact.

[number 168]

All supporters are important but sometimes living in our city counts for more. I remember the march in 2007 to support Rafa. That was an amazing and emotional event which could only have happened because we got together and marched, a social media petition or angry posts on forums would have counted for little.

[lionel_messias]

I don't really agree that OOT's would want some weird sugar daddy any more or less than locals. But don't see what's wrong with saying locals matter more.

It's their city the team are representing. If the club does anything immoral, it impact the reputation of the city of Liverpool more than any other City. And locals have the Club in their back garden, where as you and I don't.

I don't get why OOT's (like myself) get upset when it's said that local fans are most important - they simply are.

Kind of.


I work in marketing and I was lucky enough to spend a day at Anfield in 2018, meeting with the club's UK marketing team and some other folk for a workshop. This is how they think about it:
There is no doubt the fan who walks to the ground, lives in Liverpool and perhaps has been going since 1960s (or similar) is the lifeblood of the club, and in a sense the meaning of the club. But we are an international club now, for better or worse, and fans in Malaysia, Oslo, Singapore, Dallas, New York etc And the club thinks about those groups of fans as well, always.

Others have probably made the point already, that locals will represent the ties the club has to the City, local issues, politics and a POV that is more inherently Liverpool. For one thing, that doesn't often get mentioned but if very rich owners come in, they might offer investment and improvements to the local area. This is cited in Manchester, for City, outsiders cite sportswashing but are perhaps not best placed to judge if new owners have brought either money, jobs or new facilities to a local community. That matters not, if you are in Oslo or Kansas.

I think what I am saying is: respect is due to those who spend £1000s to visit the club from abroad and strangely (or not) they may love the club just as much as someone who lives 800 yards away from Anfield.

[PaulF]

Correct. However, I've been invited to moderate this forum by its owners. So that's what I do, until such point I don't want to any more. Everything is a choice.

Rawk has owners? Didn't know that. Can we sell it to a despotic regime and get better moderators?

[lionel_messias]

Rawk has owners? Didn't know that. Can we sell it to a despotic regime and get better moderators?

They have a sustainable model, one in, one out moderator-wise. When one loses their mind and is found under a park bench muttering about net-spend and sportswashing, covered
in Wagon Wheels and saliva; they can draft in another one incentivised with Kit kats and Greggs vouchers.

[Billy Elliot]

Kind of.




I think what I am saying is: respect is due to those who spend £1000s to visit the club from abroad and strangely (or not) they may love the club just as much as someone who lives 800 yards away from Anfield.

Someone 800 yards from Anfield might support Everton and absolutely hate Liverpool (the club). But if Liverpool FC does something immoral it impacts the person living 800 yards from Anfield a lot more than someone who loves them and can afford £1,000 to fly into a match. Not sure why it's even being debated. The actions of Liverpool affects people in L4 more than L30 - never mind another continent.

[lionel_messias]

Someone 800 yards from Anfield might support Everton and absolutely hate Liverpool (the club). But if Liverpool FC does something immoral it impacts the person living 800 yards from Anfield a lot more than someone who loves them and can afford £1,000 to fly into a match. Not sure why it's even being debated. The actions of Liverpool affects people in L4 more than L30 - never mind another continent.

I'm with you, I hear what you are saying. Let's hope what you are referring to as "doing something immoral" is not indefensible because you have to suspect neither local or out of Towners have a say in who buys the club. Not until after the fact, anyway.

[Billy Elliot]

I'm with you, I hear what you are saying. Let's hope what you are referring to as "doing something immoral" is not indefensible because you have to suspect neither local or out of Towners have a say in who buys the club. Not until after the fact, anyway.

Yeah, if someone comes in and does something positive for the area then it has a bigger positive impact the closer you are to Anfield - by the same token.

Glass half full n that.

[Macc77]

There is no doubt the fan who walks to the ground, lives in Liverpool and perhaps has been going since 1960s (or similar) is the lifeblood of the club, and in a sense the meaning of the club. But we are an international club now, for better or worse, and fans in Malaysia, Oslo, Singapore, Dallas, New York etc And the club thinks about those groups of fans as well, always.

This is all true of course, nobody that owned the club would ignore the financial gains to be had from our global fanbase. But what is sometimes missed is that our global fanbase is made up of a hell of alot of people who started following us when we weren't winning much, when deciding to lump in behind United or Chelsea would have been the more rewarding venture in terms of instant gratification. Same now, every fan around the world that chooses Liverpool instead of Man City, or in the future Newcastle, has done so for a certain reason.

Those reasons in the past or now must contain (in alot of cases) some desire to follow us because of something special about us, about our culture, our history, Anfield, etc. Most if not all of those things stem from what people in Liverpool have done to make us special off the field. Without Scousers making Liverpool FC unique and special, alot of the people around the world who follow us simply wouldn't.

[Redric1970]

Most of us do not want sportswashers. We all want Liverpool to be able to compete. The way the league is going we will have to compete with several sportswashing regimes plus united.
How are we going to compete? No, I don’t want us owned by a sportswashing regime so I really just don’t know what the answer is.

Why is it always one or the other, chelsea and arsenal and spurs and West Ham and Aston Villa aren’t owned by sports washers by they outspend us by £100s of millions at the moment and arsenal made nearly €300mil less than us and didn’t have champions league football.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Why is it always one or the other, chelsea and arsenal and spurs and West Ham and Aston Villa aren’t owned by sports washers by they outspend us by £100s of millions at the moment and arsenal made nearly €300mil less than us and didn’t have champions league football.

The models those clubs employ is mostly based on loans and debt, which as we know is a dangerous game with the wrong owner.

But we do have more money coming in than we are spending. Perhaps we currently need to loosen the purse string a bit.

The reality of our valuation as well means it is essentially one or the other - sportswashers, or a loan based buy out.

[JRed]

Why is it always one or the other, chelsea and arsenal and spurs and West Ham and Aston Villa aren’t owned by sports washers by they outspend us by £100s of millions at the moment and arsenal made nearly €300mil less than us and didn’t have champions league football.

Yes, we have to spend more to be able to continue competing. FSG will not spend the required money on the team. So it looks like we would have to be sold, but I don’t see anyone paying what FSG want apart from sportswashers.

[Redric1970]

None of us want sportswashers but they are naive if they believed spent £30ml per season would keep us competing with your city’s and madrids, especially when your rivals are spending 10 times what you are. They should have replaced a big name player in midfield gradually and it should have been an evolution not a revolution, now we are at the point that rather than replace 1 player it’s highly
Likely we need to replace 3, plus ad to that a fair few players can walk away for nothing, and the next season we will already drop 6-7 places on that money earned chart because I can’t for a minute see us getting top four.

[jepovic]

Most football fans support clubs that are nowhere near winning PL or CL titles, but they still enjoy it.
If Liverpool becomes another oil club, I think I would lose interest.

[JRed]

Most football fans support clubs that are nowhere near winning PL or CL titles, but they still enjoy it.
If Liverpool becomes another oil club, I think I would lose interest.

We are not most clubs. We are the most successful club in the history of English football. 

[24/7]

They have a sustainable model, one in, one out moderator-wise. When one loses their mind and is found under a park bench muttering about net-spend and sportswashing, covered
in Wagon Wheels and saliva; they can draft in another one incentivised with Kit kats and Greggs vouchers.

That's exactly what happened!!!!!

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I don't understand why linking the FSG with Trump ? John Henry is from Boston a state that is considered one of the most Liberal states in the US, more Liberal than any place in the UK, I know that doesn't mean he himself is a Liberal, but from the articles I read it seemed that 90% of the donations went to the Democrats which means that the  FSG are mostly Liberal.

Liberals in the USA are not even close to being as Liberal as those here,they're not even as Liberal as most Tories.

[TwitterJayy]

Most football fans support clubs that are nowhere near winning PL or CL titles, but they still enjoy it.
If Liverpool becomes another oil club, I think I would lose interest.

I understand how the special feeling might go. (Personally I don’t think it will)

But the point is that other clubs have an actual connection to a club. If a lad wants to take his son the game, he isn’t facing a mad battle for tickets or spending well over the £££. If a young child wants a STH, they more than likely get one with any wait being minimal.

Liverpool as a club is not a team for the locals anymore. Any young fan now growing up, the only chance they will have to get tickets is buying hospitality at over the odds. I’m not starting a local vs non local debate, but surely there has to be an understanding here. I have no problem with non locals and foreign fans, they should be welcome but the priority should be getting more locals in the ground.

We don’t have that, therefore we have sold our soul but with consequences of being a big club it’s normal. Therefore I expect us to be able to ‘compete’ with other clubs.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

I don't understand why linking the FSG with Trump ? John Henry is from Boston a state that is considered one of the most Liberal states in the US, more Liberal than any place in the UK, I know that doesn't mean he himself is a Liberal, but from the articles I read it seemed that 90% of the donations went to the Democrats which means that the  FSG are mostly Liberal.

It is because FSG is not just John Henry and Tom Werner, it is consists of a bunch of other billionaires which includes Michael Egan & Patrick Egan who are big Trump supporters (Michael actually sites on our board of directors) and the former Republican Governor of Illinois, Bruce Rauner who also endorsed Trump and tried to ban abortion in the state.

If you want to see who are the shareholders in FSG, just scroll down to the bottom of this link and google each one - https://fenwaysportsgroup.com/leadership/