Topic: UAPs over America: real or balloons??

[[new username under construction]]

So flares then

[Riquende]

I ‘jumped’ on it because it’s a bit of a mad take. There’s an old joke, what do you call a marine with an iq of 160… a platoon.

But you're overlooking that those marines are putting their reputations on the line... I can't see why anyone would do that and therefore they automatically become credible. I think that's how it works in these circles, anyway.

At no point have our resident Mulder & Scully in here (yes I'm aware Scully was a skeptic, sue me for bad analogous practices) considered whether the people they're paying attention to are simply right or wrong, they only seem concerned with whether or not they might be purposefully lying.

[Alan_X]

Now before you even say it, (Alan!) I know some of you don't favour the two media folk who are reporting this on their platform.

However, come on let's look at the information and images. Hell, I'd even be interested in Mick (effing) West or anyone's professional analysis of the photography around this incident, which has over 50 witnesses.

This is certainly UAP, in so much that we need a full understanding of what the object is. I'd go further and put a skeptical hat on, saying: would it be insane if this WAS a United States experimental craft?


Anyway, here's the material:


https://www.weaponizedpodcast.com/news-1/mojave-triangle-uap

Its parachute flares. The 50 witnesses saw five lights hovering (floating) and then ‘shapeshifting’ (drifting). There’s an official contemporaneous report of the training exercise with images of five flares in IR where the trails are clear.

And more experienced military personnel point out the witnesses are low level personnel on a training base.

https://twitter.com/blackvaultcom/status/1661052262981185536?s=46&t=BVwBNFINLWf3r4jvm6o6uw

This is a typical UFO/UAP report. 5 lights in the sky. They are real lights but if you believe in UFOs they become a craft “the size of a football field” because of the arrangement of the lights. When the arrangement changes this is clearly evidence of ‘shapeshifting’ and when one of the lights detaches itself it becomes a four-light craft the size of a football field with a separate probe.

“Triangles” are the new “flying saucers” and are perfect for UFO spotting because any three lights can form a triangle. If there’s a fourth it’s either a power source or a separate probe.

[Alan_X]

So flares then

[Alan_X]

Look! A spaceship!

This could be two triangle craft in formation with an escort orb following a fighter or…

A fighter dropping aerial parachute flares.

[lionel_messias]

Its parachute flares. The 50 witnesses saw five lights hovering (floating) and then ‘shapeshifting’ (drifting). There’s an official contemporaneous report of the training exercise with images of five flares in IR where the trails are clear.

And more experienced military personnel point out the witnesses are low level personnel on a training base.

https://twitter.com/blackvaultcom/status/1661052262981185536?s=46&t=BVwBNFINLWf3r4jvm6o6uw

This is a typical UFO/UAP report. 5 lights in the sky. They are real lights but if you believe in UFOs they become a craft “the size of a football field” because of the arrangement of the lights. When the arrangement changes this is clearly evidence of ‘shapeshifting’ and when one of the lights detaches itself it becomes a four-light craft the size of a football field with a separate probe.

“Triangles” are the new “flying saucers” and are perfect for UFO spotting because any three lights can form a triangle. If there’s a fourth it’s either a power source or a separate probe.

Interesting.

I didn't think we'd be engaging much on this one.

"It's parachute flairs."


Wow, I love your certainly. Especially as I'm not claiming anything extraordinary.

Show me a 4K image on this thing. Show me infrared and lets get a reading of what was physically there.

The baseline now seems to be, we have to get sensor proof of an "object's" size and velocity.

I'm happy for any incident to be classified whatever it is, mundane, weather condition, whatever but what I don't like (obviously) is the blanket thinking, "oh these things are always X, yeah bunch of dumb marines etc".

We always need higher proofs but generally I'd say people don't stand around with their colleagues either making shit up or being extremely obtuse about flairs.

I belive in this case there are actual FLAIRS used to illustrate the object, so you can see real flairs next to something that does not appear to be flairs.

Anyway, show me 4K or 1080p. And give me sensor data on what was out there.

[lionel_messias]

Look! A spaceship!

This could be two triangle craft in formation with an escort orb following a fighter or…

A fighter dropping aerial parachute flares.

Alan, you appear to be an intelligent person. But this is absolute bullshit, as the two things you are referencing do not compare.
Flairs fall due to gravity. These lights stayed at their altitude, for 10 minutes as reported.

Like I said earlier in a short post, not sure you read it but I would not be blown away if this object was some sort of advanced US stealth craft but the logic on that is a bit shonky as well, given the base in question is massive, so why fly it in front of so many of your own marines, who have eyes and iPhones?

[rob1966]

Its parachute flares. The 50 witnesses saw five lights hovering (floating) and then ‘shapeshifting’ (drifting). There’s an official contemporaneous report of the training exercise with images of five flares in IR where the trails are clear.

And more experienced military personnel point out the witnesses are low level personnel on a training base.

https://twitter.com/blackvaultcom/status/1661052262981185536?s=46&t=BVwBNFINLWf3r4jvm6o6uw

This is a typical UFO/UAP report. 5 lights in the sky. They are real lights but if you believe in UFOs they become a craft “the size of a football field” because of the arrangement of the lights. When the arrangement changes this is clearly evidence of ‘shapeshifting’ and when one of the lights detaches itself it becomes a four-light craft the size of a football field with a separate probe.

“Triangles” are the new “flying saucers” and are perfect for UFO spotting because any three lights can form a triangle. If there’s a fourth it’s either a power source or a separate probe.

That takes me back to the 80's to the reports of strange triangular shaped craft that didn't show up on Radar and the military denied anything was flying in the area

[Alan_X]

Here’s another from 2018 over San Diego.

https://www.cbs8.com/amp/article/news/mystery-solved-military-flare-training-lights-up-the-san-diego-night-sky/509-b8fa3172-b52a-4951-8e66-354890462063

[rob1966]

Alan, you appear to be an intelligent person. But this is absolute bullshit, as the two things you are referencing do not compare.
Flairs fall due to gravity. These lights stayed at their altitude, for 10 minutes as reported.

Like I said earlier in a short post, not sure you read it but I would not be blown away if this object was some sort of advanced US stealth craft but the logic on that is a bit shonky as well, given the base in question is massive, so why fly it in front of so many of your own marines, who have eyes and iPhones?

Military flares drop on parachutes, they can be long burn and the heat from the flare creates lift, like a hot air balloon, this is what keeps them in the air for long periods of time.

[Alan_X]

Interesting.

I didn't think we'd be engaging much on this one.

"It's parachute flairs."


Wow, I love your certainly. Especially as I'm not claiming anything extraordinary.

Show me a 4K image on this thing. Show me infrared and lets get a reading of what was physically there.

The baseline now seems to be, we have to get sensor proof of an "object's" size and velocity.

I'm happy for any incident to be classified whatever it is, mundane, weather condition, whatever but what I don't like (obviously) is the blanket thinking, "oh these things are always X, yeah bunch of dumb marines etc".

We always need higher proofs but generally I'd say people don't stand around with their colleagues either making shit up or being extremely obtuse about flairs.

I belive in this case there are actual FLAIRS used to illustrate the object, so you can see real flairs next to something that does not appear to be flairs.

Anyway, show me 4K or 1080p. And give me sensor data on what was out there.

There’s infra red from the military of five flares in that arrangement at the same time and date in the same location. It’s a large base so they probably didn’t tell a load of grunts that there would be an exercise which had fuck all to do with them just in case they got excited about some lights in the sky.

I’ve just posted an identical event seen by loads of people over San Diego in 2018.

Parachute flares don’t fall under gravity (they have parachutes) and can be visible from more than 25 miles away. They hang in the air for 10 minutes or more - they’d be useless if they didn’t. All of this is easily researched and explained.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flare

Which is more likely? A huge craft the size of a football field hovering over a military installation or military training flares from training exercise floating near a military installation?

Or as you suggest - a vast flying craft using non-terrestrial technology flying in full view of some random marines with no security classification?

[BarryCrocker]

Here’s another from 2018 over San Diego.

https://www.cbs8.com/amp/article/news/mystery-solved-military-flare-training-lights-up-the-san-diego-night-sky/509-b8fa3172-b52a-4951-8e66-354890462063

If you squint at it is says 'Glazers Out'.

[Alan_X]

Military flares drop on parachutes, they can be long burn and the heat from the flare creates lift, like a hot air balloon, this is what keeps them in the air for long periods of time.

UFO twitter has explained this - apparently the military put up flares at the same time as disinformation to cover  the appearance of an enormous spaceship.

[rob1966]

UFO twitter has explained this - apparently the military put up flares at the same time as disinformation to cover  the appearance of an enormous spaceship.

Very clever

[Alan_X]

Very clever

UFO twitter knows…

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

That takes me back to the 80's to the reports of strange triangular shaped craft that didn't show up on Radar and the military denied anything was flying in the area

Apart from a lot of the eye witness reports on these triangular craft reported them flying very low level, very slowly and silent apart from a low hum with no engine noise. Don’t think think known US stealth craft have that ability. Not saying they were alien craft, but I don’t think eye witness testimony should be completely ignored.

[rob1966]

Apart from a lot of the eye witness reports on these triangular craft reported them flying very low level, very slowly and silent apart from a low hum with no engine noise. Don’t think think known US stealth craft have that ability. Not saying they were alien craft, but I don’t think eye witness testimony should be completely ignored.

The B2 is so quiet it can fly over an observer and not be heard, even at low level at air shows you can speak normally as it flies past. It has it's engines buried insode the plane, has tech to cool the exhaust, due to its shape it can fly very slowly. This is a 34 year old plane, imagine the developments made since then in noise reduction

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/XbH4D5IW6eA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/XbH4D5IW6eA</a>

[[new username under construction]]

If it's flares (which looks very likely) ((Unless the infrared shows something completely different)) you'd wonder how Corbell and Knapp explain away apparently 2 years of investigating this! Corbell has looked a bit of a numpty on more than one occasion now and Knapp has been a clown for years unfortunately, as I said before there are a few who are worth following in the field but maybe not these two

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

The B2 is so quiet it can fly over an observer and not be heard, even at low level at air shows you can speak normally as it flies past. It has it's engines buried insode the plane, has tech to cool the exhaust, due to its shape it can fly very slowly. This is a 34 year old plane, imagine the developments made since then in noise reduction

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/XbH4D5IW6eA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/XbH4D5IW6eA</a>

Perhaps it can be Rob, I guess that’s the problem with eye witness testimony. When someone reports seeing a huge dark triangular object flying silently and slowly so low overhead that they cannot see the ends of the wings, you presume it would be obvious to discern a jet engine noise from a low hum. The Stephenville case from 2008 is another example, where you think surely the pilot witnesses would have known if it was a B2 rather than describing something a half mile wide and a mile long. But who knows?

Ps good point about the age, who knows what they are currently working on.

[Alan_X]

Apart from a lot of the eye witness reports on these triangular craft reported them flying very low level, very slowly and silent apart from a low hum with no engine noise. Don’t think think known US stealth craft have that ability. Not saying they were alien craft, but I don’t think eye witness testimony should be completely ignored.

We’ve all seen that dramatic scene in our favorite television show or movie when a key eyewitness stands up in court and names the guilty party, and everything is wrapped up nicely as the end credits begin to roll. However, the truth is, it rarely works like that in real life, and often someone’s memory may not be as reliable or as accurate as we think.

Eyewitness accounts have long been known to have the potential to be unreliable. In fact, The Innocence Project reports that mistaken eyewitness identifications contributed to 71% of the more than 360 cases overturned by post-conviction DNA evidence.

https://www.houghlaw.com/blog/are-eyewitness-accounts-reliable/#:~:text=Eyewitness%20accounts%20have%20long%20been,by%20post%2Dconviction%20DNA%20evidence.

Eye witness evidence is among the worst there is. When we “see” something it’s almost always partial and our brain fills in the gaps. This has been explained in endless studies of how we all see and how vision actually occurs in the brain. Pareidolia is not just about seeing faces but mapping what we expect to see onto what we actually see.

If you expect to see UFOs, you’ll see UFOs in all sorts of things.

Looking forward to the big disclosure. Is it this week?

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

We’ve all seen that dramatic scene in our favorite television show or movie when a key eyewitness stands up in court and names the guilty party, and everything is wrapped up nicely as the end credits begin to roll. However, the truth is, it rarely works like that in real life, and often someone’s memory may not be as reliable or as accurate as we think.

Eyewitness accounts have long been known to have the potential to be unreliable. In fact, The Innocence Project reports that mistaken eyewitness identifications contributed to 71% of the more than 360 cases overturned by post-conviction DNA evidence.

https://www.houghlaw.com/blog/are-eyewitness-accounts-reliable/#:~:text=Eyewitness%20accounts%20have%20long%20been,by%20post%2Dconviction%20DNA%20evidence.

Eye witness evidence is among the worst there is. When we “see” something it’s almost always partial and our brain fills in the gaps. This has been explained in endless studies of how we all see and how vision actually occurs in the brain. Pareidolia is not just about seeing faces but mapping what we expect to see onto what we actually see.

If you expect to see UFOs, you’ll see UFOs in all sorts of things.

Looking forward to the big disclosure. Is it this week?

Hence saying shouldn’t be completely ignored. It’s used in a court of law? 2 motorcyclists died on my road last weekend, police are asking for eye witnesses, why is that? Because it can be used to corroborate other evidence and that’s what I’m saying here. Eye witnesses testimony shouldn't be not be completely ignored especially when supported by other data.

Crazy to think this is even being questioned.

Why do the skeptics always have to throw in cheap digs too. Ridicule has been used over the decades to shut down conversations they don’t like  😂

[Alan_X]

Stephenville:

Pilot Steve Allen saw the object when he was out clearing brush off a hilltop near the town of Selden. Allen described the unidentified object as being an enormous aircraft with flashing strobe lights — and it was totally silent.

He said the UFO sped away at more than 3,000 mph, followed by two fighter jets that were hopelessly outmaneuvered. Allen said it took the aircraft just a few seconds to cross a section of sky that it takes him 20 minutes to fly in his Cessna.

The veteran pilot said the UFO, an estimated half-mile wide and a mile long, was "bigger than a Wal-Mart."
[/b]
Seriously?

[liverbloke]

re it being military - but you also have to think why they have made a mile wide craft?

engineer - i know we've made a plane at around 200ft in length but i've got an idea... let's not keep making larger and larger ones... let's just make one a fucking mile wide!

his boss - you're fired!

and size is really hard to judge - when you see 3,4 or 5 lights in the sky, you simply can't just say 'that must be a mile wide'

and what happened in the end?

did they just switch the lights off? and if so - why did they turn them on in the first place?

[lionel_messias]

If it's flares (which looks very likely) ((Unless the infrared shows something completely different)) you'd wonder how Corbell and Knapp explain away apparently 2 years of investigating this! Corbell has looked a bit of a numpty on more than one occasion now and Knapp has been a clown for years unfortunately, as I said before there are a few who are worth following in the field but maybe not these two

I am far from being convinced this is flares, even parachute ones. I would agree with you though that Jeremy Corbell would look rather silly if something he spent 2 years sitting on and working on turns out to be mundanely explained away within 24 hours of publication.

[Alan_X]

Hence saying shouldn’t be completely ignored. It’s used in a court of law? 2 motorcyclists died on my road last weekend, police are asking for eye witnesses, why is that? Because it can be used to corroborate other evidence and that’s what I’m saying here. Eye witnesses testimony shouldn't be not be completely ignored especially when supported by other data.

Crazy to think this is even being questioned.

I’m not questioning whether those marines saw 5 lights in the sky. I’m sure they did because they filmed the lights and we also know there were flares in the sky in that area, at that time and on that date.

I am questioning whether they saw a vast flying craft that ‘shapeshifted’ but doesn’t appear in any of the images or videos.

[Alan_X]

re it being military - but you also have to think why they have made a mile wide craft?

engineer - i know we've made a plane at around 200ft in length but i've got an idea... let's not keep making larger and larger ones... let's just make one a fucking mile wide!

his boss - you're fired!

and size is really hard to judge - when you see 3,4 or 5 lights in the sky, you simply can't just say 'that must be a mile wide'

and what happened in the end?

did they just switch the lights off? and if so - why did they turn them on in the first place?

Maybe they only turn the lights on when they’re flying over or near military bases?

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Stephenville:

Pilot Steve Allen saw the object when he was out clearing brush off a hilltop near the town of Selden. Allen described the unidentified object as being an enormous aircraft with flashing strobe lights — and it was totally silent.

He said the UFO sped away at more than 3,000 mph, followed by two fighter jets that were hopelessly outmaneuvered. Allen said it took the aircraft just a few seconds to cross a section of sky that it takes him 20 minutes to fly in his Cessna.

The veteran pilot said the UFO, an estimated half-mile wide and a mile long, was "bigger than a Wal-Mart."
[/b]
Seriously?

That’s what he said yes. As well as up to 40 others. Followed by US jets being outmanoeuvred chasing it before shooting off like a bullet. Who knows what the feck it was but there’s 40 eye witnesses, radar data and the air force/military caught lying.

It wouldn’t be the first report of such a gigantic craft. There’s been many over the years. Here’s one Guernsey 2007 as described by the pilot.

https://youtu.be/Uw_DNHEvwck

Again, not saying these sightings are aliens or anything, but things are being seen that cannot be accounted for.

[[new username under construction]]

I am far from being convinced this is flares, even parachute ones. I would agree with you though that Jeremy Corbell would look rather silly if something he spent 2 years sitting on and working on turns out to be mundanely explained away within 24 hours of publication.

I think this one is already settled mate, loads of others that can't be explained though

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

I’m not questioning whether those marines saw 5 lights in the sky. I’m sure they did because they filmed the lights and we also know there were flares in the sky in that area, at that time and on that date.

I am questioning whether they saw a vast flying craft that ‘shapeshifted’ but doesn’t appear in any of the images or videos.

Dunno, but it all forms part of the story. The other thing that’s not been mentioned much, didn’t Corbell mention a 60 vehicle air/ground search party was sent out to investigate? Are they really that incompetent to send out a search party to chase their own exercises?

As it happens, I think in all likely, this incident will have a prosaic explanation. But at this point there’s no confirmation what it was.

[[new username under construction]]

Dunno, but it all forms part of the story. The other thing that’s not been mentioned much, didn’t Corbell mention a 60 vehicle air/ground search party was sent out to investigate? Are they really that incompetent to send out a search party to chase their own exercises?

As it happens, I think in all likely, this incident will have a prosaic explanation. But at this point there’s no confirmation what it was.

Was it not just literally the base exercise? bunch of people mistake that for a search party

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Was it not just literally the base exercise? bunch of people mistake that for a search party

Dunno, would have to look more into what was said about the search party. Some clarity on that would be helpful. I took it to be that it was sent out in response to what was seen, but happy to be corrected if someone knows definitively

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

https://twitter.com/heylukoverthere/status/1661329560875548672?s=61

Think I read somewhere that the NASA agenda will be to brief on what methods their team studying UAP will be using.

[rob1966]

That’s what he said yes. As well as up to 40 others. Followed by US jets being outmanoeuvred chasing it before shooting off like a bullet. Who knows what the feck it was but there’s 40 eye witnesses, radar data and the air force/military caught lying.

It wouldn’t be the first report of such a gigantic craft. There’s been many over the years. Here’s one Guernsey 2007 as described by the pilot.

https://youtu.be/Uw_DNHEvwck

Again, not saying these sightings are aliens or anything, but things are being seen that cannot be accounted for.

You have to take a lot of what that fella is saying with a pinch of salt. He's got a pilots licence and a Cessna, but that doesn't necessarily mean much, my 14 yr old has started flying lessons, his 17 yr old mate is a pilot and owns a Cessna, doesn't make them experts. Then its the claims of the size.  How high was this thing? He's saying its a mile wide, what's he basing that on, has he exact reference points? It had to be more than a mile up to not hit the ground when it was manouevering at least to not clip the earth. He mentions a Wal Mart, which is a ridiculous comparisson, Anfield is huge and is only 200yds or so from the Kop turnstiles to the New Anny, I've delivered to huge RDCs, 100 bays each side and they're not a mile long. I live right on the exit flightpath of Manchester airport and the A380's fly right over me. I can't even tell you what height they are at nor their exact size. I thought one the other day was a few hundred feet up, according to flightradar it was 4000ft, almost a mile.

The cruising speed of a Cessna 172 is 122 knots, about 140mph. At that speed, he covers 46 miles in 20 minutes. My lad is obsessed with planes and tracks them all the time on Flightradar, when we see a spec in the distance at 37,000 ft it'll be over the Wirral, about 30 miles as the crow flies, so he's claiming he saw it travel over 40 miles. His claims are pretty outlandish.

[Alan_X]

Dunno, but it all forms part of the story. The other thing that’s not been mentioned much, didn’t Corbell mention a 60 vehicle air/ground search party was sent out to investigate? Are they really that incompetent to send out a search party to chase their own exercises?

As it happens, I think in all likely, this incident will have a prosaic explanation. But at this point there’s no confirmation what it was.

No offence but “what Corbell mentions” is not a credible source. He’s meant to have been researching this for two years but didn’t contact the DoD for comment?

I’m replying to posts to be polite but Corbell and the rest of these ufologists are a joke.

[lionel_messias]

https://twitter.com/heylukoverthere/status/1661329560875548672?s=61

Think I read somewhere that the NASA agenda will be to brief on what methods their team studying UAP will be using.

I was kind of saying that because that seems like the speed of these things. That Dr Kirkpatrick of Aaro very prosaically laid out his methods, said "No evidence of ETs" and took great pleasure in wanting to declare things SEP, or someone else's problem. Aaro has no website yet (18 months later) and there are rumours interviews are somewhat unprofessional and ill-informed.

If you believe stories that Whistleblowers have testified to Aaro about "legacy UFO programs" and locations of materials. If that is true, I just don't know how Kirkpatrick's uninterested and 'nothing to see here' manner copes with those sorts of concepts.

Have NASA said anything remotely interesting on the subject for 70 years? Do they have anything to say, or will they spend the whole damn time talking about procedure, and speaking slowly to minimise questions?

If there is anything real to the UAP mystery, for the authorities it is like passing the Kidney stone of truth.

[Riquende]

Seriously?

1 mile long and half a mile wide is almost the exact same size as an Imperial Star Destroyer from Star Wars, a happy coincidence because Star Wars nerds have modelled how big those would be if they were floating over well-known places on Earth.

So we're looking at a claim something this size was just sitting in Earth's atmosphere before accelerating to around Mach 4.

[lionel_messias]

NASA will answer these questions from the public on May 31, presuming they remain upvoted.

I look forward to their responses, these are sensible questions:

https://twitter.com/wow36932525/status/1661335127354404868/photo/1

[Riquende]

No offence but “what Corbell mentions” is not a credible source. He’s meant to have been researching this for two years but didn’t contact the DoD for comment?

I’m replying to posts to be polite but Corbell and the rest of these ufologists are a joke.

This is what I meant a while back about this all sounding exactly like the Qanon guys. They all place great faith in these absolute chancers and refer to things they've said (or share links to things they've tweeted) as if there's any weight behind them, and that other should pay attention to them for some reason.

And of course they're still doing it, whilst previously taking great exception to being accused of doing so. They've just ploughed straight on regardless, doubling down on it.

[liverbloke]

NASA will answer these questions from the public on May 31, presuming they remain upvoted.

I look forward to their responses, these are sensible questions:

https://twitter.com/wow36932525/status/1661335127354404868/photo/1

sorry but you've got to laugh - there's a comment below which a guy says 'it's clear they don't give a squat about what the public thinks or asks' when the top question has a vote of only 1481 and this tweet only has 2 replies in a world of nearly 8 billion people

and the kecksburg question - really?

what a waste of a question

more hypothetical nonsense made up from nothing but conjecture - funnily enough at a time of heightened public (and media) space travel and flying saucer interest

[Alan_X]

Corbell is so full of shit.

https://twitter.com/realarea503/status/1661215730610900992?s=46&t=J2DAXsAkt3aYoapASfAtKQ