Topic: Darwin Núñez (Darwin Gabriel Núñez Ribeiro)

[paddysour]

Why do assists not count?

111 minutes per goal contribution all from basically open play bar flick on headers from corners this season in the league is bored line elite is it not ?

Doesn’t take pens or free kicks either like have the players named who have better goal scoring records than him who’s half their goals come from pens or FKS but I guess that doesn’t show up when you look up at games played and goals scored either.

As I've said, he ranges from elite to donkey. For you, the signs are there that it's worth persisting with. For me, he's not consistent enough and this has been the story of his career. I don't think there will be a light bulb moment for him.

If it was just the goals, I'd probably be on your side. But his all round play is a serious detriment to our attack. I think we can do better, even if it's someone who doesn't have Nunez's ceiling. I'd prefer the consistency.

[mullyred94]

As I've said, he ranges from elite to donkey. For you, the signs are there that it's worth persisting with. For me, he's not consistent enough and this has been the story of his career. I don't think there will be a light bulb moment for him.

If it was just the goals, I'd probably be on your side. But his all round play is a serious detriment to our attack. I think we can do better, even if it's someone who doesn't have Nunez's ceiling. I'd prefer the consistency.

Was fairly consistent until the last month just like the whole team but we should scapegoat him and sell him.

[paddysour]

It's unfortunate, as if Salah and Jota had stayed fit then he's under less pressure and probably carries on scoring/assisting (his numbers were fine at that point). But that's when we needed him to step up and his head went. He got that  goal against Forest at the end which is exactly what we needed. That was 2 months ago though and he's scored one league goal since and one assist. And that goal was at home to Sheffield United. He also scored in the two Prague games, so basically he's only scored against the worst two teams we've played.

This is it for me. On paper he scores every 2 games. But in reality he regularly goes months without scoring in the league.

People will say do the cups not count - if they did count as much, Minamino and Origi would still be here.

[mullyred94]

This is it for me. On paper he scores every 2 games. But in reality he regularly goes months without scoring in the league.

People will say do the cups not count - if they did count as much, Minamino and Origi would still be here.

He has 19 goal involvements in the league mate?

How many goals have Salah Diaz etc scored lately?

[Fromola]

So his shite then?

Luis Diaz has a goal involvement every 186 minutes and is our player of the season because his the only one that has played good in the last month?

There's question marks over all the attack right now, but Diaz at least hasn't gone missing when we've needed him. Nor has he stepped up with the end product in the absence of goals from the others.

If Nunez was missing sitters but really lively and making things happen, he'd get a bit more leeway, although he'd be getting stick for not picking up the slack. His performances have gradually got worse though. Whether you're scoring goals or not, you've still got to show up, particularly in the business end of the season. He was pathetic in the derby, genuinely a waste of a shirt, and that's where he's lost a lot of the fans. He should have been hooked for Danns at half time, he was that bad. Jota or Gakpo on the bench and he presumably would have been.

[mullyred94]

There's question marks over all the attack right now, but Diaz at least hasn't gone missing when we've needed him. Nor has he stepped up with the end product in the absence of goals from the others.

If Nunez was missing sitters but really lively and making things happen, he'd get a bit more leeway, although he'd be getting stick for not picking up the slack. His performances have gradually got worse though. Whether you're scoring goals or not, you've still got to show up, particularly in the business end of the season.

When Diaz looked like he couldn't dribble past a chair and Nunez was winning games for Liverpool did that not put us in a position to challenge for the title?

How minds change so quickly.

Running around and hitting the post his unlucky yet Nunez is a shite finisher when he hits the post?

[Scottymuser]

He has 20 goalas and 11 assists in 62 PL games.

Or a goal or assist every second game..

He hasn't played near 62 games thoughy - he has played 3690 minutes only - the equivalent of 41 full games.  Last season he had a goal involvement of every 141 mins, this season its 105.  So overall, he scored or assists every 119 mins - basically less than 3 halves of football.  Thats very, very good.

[Scottymuser]

This is it for me. On paper he scores every 2 games. But in reality he regularly goes months without scoring in the league.

People will say do the cups not count - if they did count as much, Minamino and Origi would still be here.

That is not true.  In the slightest.  His longest period without scoring this the 9 games (he started 7 of them) between Man City and Burnley - or about 7 weeks.  In those games he did get 2 assists.  Presumably you were on here when Jota went 13 games in 2021/22 without scoring (starting the same number 7, and getting 3 assists) calling that he goes "months without scoring" and to be sold? 

[Bennett]

The way people defend this fella, I can only assume Nunez spends his time away from the pitch and training on a Robin Hood crusade giving money to the needy, saving babies from fires etc. I honestly have no idea why he was given such immediate adulation when many more deserving rarely, if ever, get their name heard from the stands.

[JasonF]

The way people defend this fella, I can only assume Nunez spends his time away from the pitch and training on a Robin Hood crusade giving money to the needy, saving babies from fires etc. I honestly have no idea why he was given such immediate adulation when many more deserving rarely, if ever, get their name heard from the stands.

The inverse is just as true. He was labelled a "shit Andy Carroll" and having videos posted meming his misses before he was even through the door. There's people on this very page happy to call him a "donkey" when he's regularly playing for one of the best attacking football teams in the world. He's obviously not a donkey, he's a very good player who with a little more composure at times could be top tier.

What you see as people blindly defending him I see as a few people adding some balance and saying there's a little more nuance to it than "he's shite".

There were 12+ pages added to this thread in the days after the Atalanta game where Núñez played 24 minutes and we barely got the ball to him, most of them blaming him for our current situation. I get that people are frustrated at the moment but Núñez seems to be a punching bag for some people. Is it that weird that some people want to defend him?

[paddysour]

That is not true.  In the slightest.  His longest period without scoring this the 9 games (he started 7 of them) between Man City and Burnley - or about 7 weeks.  In those games he did get 2 assists.  Presumably you were on here when Jota went 13 games in 2021/22 without scoring (starting the same number 7, and getting 3 assists) calling that he goes "months without scoring" and to be sold?

My bad, it's just a quarter of a season then instead of months.

If Jota was our big money no9, ruined nearly every attack he touched, and a load of people wanted to build the side around him, then yeah I'd probably be in here complaining about that too.

[istvan kozma]

For what we paid for him, he's shown up to this point, he's not good enough. At the time we paid for him I thought it was wrong we used all our resources on a forward when we had glaring holes in other parts of the team, I wished he proved me wrong. For a player leading the line for a top team his decision making is terrible. Missing chances is one thing, but missing chances by making the wrong choice is another. At the time I thought the criticism by Michael Owen after his goal against Brentford was wrong, but when you analyze it he was bang on. The amount of times he makes the wrong decision regarding what type of finish is needed to score is really bad. As the pressure has ramped up at the end of the season he's performances has got worse and worse. Hopefully he goes on to prove me wrong, but after 2 seasons I see limited player who hasn't got the composure to succeed at LFC, I shouldn't be saying that about the most expensive signing in LFC's history.

[Eeyore]

What sums it up for me is the notion that Nunez can't possibly improve his finishing.

That opinion is being voiced in a season when Watkins has gone from 11 League goals in 21-22 to 19 this season.

Solanke has gone from 6 League goals last season to 18 this season.

Bowen has gone from 6 League goals last season to 16 this season.

Isak has gone from 10 League goals last season to 19 this season.

It is almost as if players get better at goalscoring as they mature and start to reach the peak years of their careers. Yet posters are writing Darwin off at 24 years of age.

[istvan kozma]

What sums it up for me is the notion that Nunez can't possibly improve his finishing.

That opinion is being voiced in a season when Watkins has gone from 11 League goals in 21-22 to 19 this season.

Solanke has gone from 6 League goals last season to 18 this season.

Bowen has gone from 6 League goals last season to 16 this season.

Isak has gone from 10 League goals last season to 19 this season.

It is almost as if players get better at goalscoring as they mature and start to reach the peak years of their careers. Yet posters are writing Darwin off at 24 years of age.

Why are you going out of your way to defend the most expensive signing in LFC history, yet you want to bomb out Jota & take cheap shots at Endo. The fact that you're comparing Nunez to the likes of Solanke, Bowen & Watkins shows how disappointing he's been. The club committed £80 plus on a forward after getting 92 points and getting to a CL final. If you analyse his performance in that context, he's been a disappointment thus far

[RedG13]

Why are you going out of your way to defend the most expensive signing in LFC history, yet you want to bomb out Jota & take cheap shots at Endo. The fact that you're comparing Nunez to the likes of Solanke, Bowen & Watkins shows how disappointing he's been. The club committed £80 plus on a forward after getting 92 points and getting to a CL final. If you analyse his performance in that context, he's been a disappointment thus far

Or maybe the Club, Klopp knew he was going take some time to get up to where he needed. Take the 3-5 year views over right away view. Like a 24 year Striker creating a tons of shots and chances for his teammates where he improves the team but is struggling to finish is very likely to keep improving.

[mullyred94]

Why are you going out of your way to defend the most expensive signing in LFC history, yet you want to bomb out Jota & take cheap shots at Endo. The fact that you're comparing Nunez to the likes of Solanke, Bowen & Watkins shows how disappointing he's been. The club committed £80 plus on a forward after getting 92 points and getting to a CL final. If you analyse his performance in that context, he's been a disappointment thus far

Mate there names are mentioned all the time in here thats why he brought them up.

[JasonF]

My bad, it's just a quarter of a season then instead of months.

If Jota was our big money no9, ruined nearly every attack he touched, and a load of people wanted to build the side around him, then yeah I'd probably be in here complaining about that too.

Are you familiar with the statistic Shot Creating Actions?

Well you may be surprised to hear that the chance ruining blackhole Núñez ranks better for this stat than Jota. He also ranks better than 5/8 of Firmino's seasons at Liverpool.

I don't think he's quite as bad at this attacking stuff as you make out.

[istvan kozma]

Or maybe the Club, Klopp knew he was going take some time to get up to where he needed. Take the 3-5 year views over right away view. Like a 24 year Striker creating a tons of shots and chances for his teammates where he improves the team but is struggling to finish is very likely to keep improving.

No offense, you're talking nonsense. You don't break a club record on a striker because you think he's going to be good in his late twenties.

[mullyred94]

No offense, you're talking nonsense. You don't break a club record on a striker because you think he's going to be good in his late twenties.

His good now, you're talking nonsense.

Was also 64m guaranteed. 

[Eeyore]

Why are you going out of your way to defend the most expensive signing in LFC history, yet you want to bomb out Jota & take cheap shots at Endo. The fact that you're comparing Nunez to the likes of Solanke, Bowen & Watkins shows how disappointing he's been. The club committed £80 plus on a forward after getting 92 points and getting to a CL final. If you analyse his performance in that context, he's been a disappointment thus far

No one is saying that Nunez hasn't been a disappointment so far. I expected him to do better. I think everyone did. The problem is the notion that he has been terrible. He hasn't he has done okay.

What I am arguing against is people stating that he can't improve his finishing and score more goals. Hence quoting far less talented players who have done exactly that. There is every reason to believe, even expect Nunez to improve as he comes into the peak years of his career.

[istvan kozma]

Mate there names are mentioned all the time in here thats why he brought them up.

Apart from Isak none of those players are good enough to lead the line for top team challenging for top titles.

[istvan kozma]

His good now, you're talking nonsense.

Was also 64m guaranteed.

11 league goals proves he isn't, I expect the most expensive signing in LFC history to perform better at the business end of the season.

[mullyred94]

Apart from Isak none of those players are good enough to lead the line for top team challenging for top titles.

Isak wouldn't have half the pitch to run into if he played for a better team.

11 league proves he isn't

Has 1 less goal involvements as Isak and doesn't take pens

[Eeyore]

Apart from Isak none of those players are good enough to lead the line for top team challenging for top titles.

What they have done is improve their goalscoring as they reached the peak years of their careers. That is something I expect Nunez to do as well. He should mature and improve both physically and in terms of experience.

[Knight]

He hasn't played near 62 games thoughy - he has played 3690 minutes only - the equivalent of 41 full games.  Last season he had a goal involvement of every 141 mins, this season its 105.  So overall, he scored or assists every 119 mins - basically less than 3 halves of football.  Thats very, very good.

It's absolutely mental how people keep blasting past this.

[PEG2K]

Are you familiar with the statistic Shot Creating Actions?

Well you may be surprised to hear that the chance ruining blackhole Núñez ranks better for this stat than Jota. He also ranks better than 5/8 of Firmino's seasons at Liverpool.

I don't think he's quite as bad at this attacking stuff as you make out.

You forgot to toggle the p90 stats mate:

[mullyred94]

You forgot to toggle the p90 stats mate:

Front 3 should have been Jota Nunez and Salah if Jota wasn't injured with Diaz on the right while Salah left.

[istvan kozma]

Isak wouldn't have half the pitch to run into if he played for a better team.


Has 1 less goal involvements as Isak and doesn't take pens

Isak looks a better player, pure and simple. As I've said I hope Nunez proves me wrong, but history shows big money signings at LFC don't dramatically get better going into their 3rd season

[JasonF]

You forgot to toggle the p90 stats mate:

My bad, was looking at Jota last 365 days. He's upped his production this season then, good to see.

[mullyred94]

Isak looks a better player, pure and simple. As I've said I hope Nunez proves me wrong, but history shows big money signings at LFC don't dramatically get better going into their 3rd season

Do we play with a 9 that only gets involved in the final ball purely?

His a completely different player to Nunez hence why he only has 1 assist.

[istvan kozma]

What they have done is improve their goalscoring as they reached the peak years of their careers. That is something I expect Nunez to do as well. He should mature and improve both physically and in terms of experience.

Isak is younger and cost far less than Nunez, bad comparison.

[CowboyKangaroo]

It mostly reverts to the mean. So, you're acknowledging that these are human beings and not coins and that sometimes it doesn't. Would it be fair to assume the likeliest cases for that would be players with less composure who blast the ball rather than place it, and have underperformed their xG almost every season in their career? Put aside your personal feelings Knight, would that be a logical assumption or not?This might be my favourite ever post on here. Someone makes up a hypothetical scenario in their head with absolutely no supporting evidence whatsoever and tries to use it as a slam dunk in an argument.

Hey, here's a question: if the stats people love Nunez so much, why were the Mancs the only team we were bidding against two years ago? Might it be because his signing had nothing to do with stats and everything to do with Klopp pushing for him ahead of Nkunku, the statisticians' actual choice?

Would you like to read my post again and try again? This is an absolute stunner from you in not responding to the actual points made and engaging in bad faith. Are you truly making the claim that stats guys of all stripes aren't saying his numbers at Liverpool are exceptional?

(Also, to be better than you and engage with the point you made - despite its irrelevance to my comment: most stats guys probably were cautious on Nunez from his Benfica days. Yeah, his underlying numbers were excellent, but they were in a much weaker league, and usually they drop off. His didn't.)

[mullyred94]

Isak is younger and cost far less than Nunez, bad comparison.

Both of those points are wrong.

They are both 24 and cost 1m difference 

His also scored 13 goals from open play with 1 assist. Nunez is more effective?

[istvan kozma]

Do we play with a 9 that only gets involved in the final ball purely?

His a completely different player to Nunez hence why he only has 1 assist.

Stop with the nonsense, Nunez has been a disappointment considering what we paid for him and considering the team he was coming in to. For people to use pie charts and xG to suggest otherwise is ridiculous

[mullyred94]

Stop with the nonsense, Nunez has been a disappointment considering what we paid for him and considering the team he was coming in to. For people to use pie charts and xG to suggest otherwise is ridiculous

What nonsense, you've misqouted Nunez age, Isak's price tag.

Take pens out of the matter which Salah would have to be shot dead before giving them up he he has 13 goals and 1 assist.

Yet Nunez is a disappointing yet basically out performing the guy you think is good enough to replace him?

[Eeyore]

Isak is younger and cost far less than Nunez, bad comparison.

The initial discussion wasn't about Isak though it was about Solanke, Bowen and Watkins.

Why are you going out of your way to defend the most expensive signing in LFC history, yet you want to bomb out Jota & take cheap shots at Endo. The fact that you're comparing Nunez to the likes of Solanke, Bowen & Watkins shows how disappointing he's been. The club committed £80 plus on a forward after getting 92 points and getting to a CL final. If you analyse his performance in that context, he's been a disappointment thus far

If those there can improve their finishing and goalscoring then please explain why Nunez can't?

[MonsLibpool]

Stop with the nonsense, Nunez has been a disappointment considering what we paid for him and considering the team he was coming in to. For people to use pie charts and xG to suggest otherwise is ridiculous

The irony of it all is that the stats guys don't seem to rate him going by the leaks.

[Eeyore]

The irony of it all is that the stats guys don't seem to rate him going by the leaks.

The same guys who rated Assaidi, Aspas, Balotelli, Can, Markovic, Sakho, Grujic and Keita?

[DLF]

Many times this season I have cried out that if only we could transplant Jota's brain he would be unstoppable.  Just read that Slot asks the recruitment team for players with a high cognitive ability.  I love him but I fear for the lad.

[istvan kozma]

Both of those points are wrong.

They are both 24 and cost 1m difference 

His also scored 13 goals from open play with 1 assist. Nunez is more effective?

What nonsense, you've misqouted Nunez age, Isak's price tag.

Take pens out of the matter which Salah would have to be shot dead before giving them up he he has 13 goals and 1 assist.

Yet Nunez is a disappointing yet basically out performing the guy you think is good enough to replace him?

I haven't misquoted anything add-ons count too, Benfica aren't stupid. If you think Nunez has outperformed Isak this season, that's the world you live in.