Topic: Darwin Núñez (Darwin Gabriel Núñez Ribeiro)

[MonsLibpool]

The same guys who rated Assaidi, Aspas, Balotelli, Can, Markovic, Sakho, Grujic and Keita?

They know a lot more about data than most on here (including me) and they don't seem to rate him but he gets defended based on the same data.

[mullyred94]

The irony of it all is that the stats guys don't seem to rate him going by the leaks.

Wonder if the stat guys will be happy with 5.1xA from our LW

[CowboyKangaroo]

They know a lot more about data than most on here (including me) and they don't seem to rate him but he gets defended based on the same data.

What is the source on the stats guys not liking him now? (Not whether they preferred Nkunku, but not liking his Liverpool numbers?)

[mullyred94]

What is the source on the stats guys not liking him now? (Not whether they preferred Nkunku, but not liking his Liverpool numbers?)

Pretty sure he just changed the Nkunku story to fit the agenda

Didn't they prefer someone over Jota also, is he now off?

[Eeyore]

What is the source on the stats guys not liking him now? (Not whether they preferred Nkunku, but not liking his Liverpool numbers?)

As it goes I was at a bus stop with Jurgen around that time and I told him to sign Nkunku. He said fuck me I've never seen a talking donkey before and then said that's what the stats guys said. KLoppo said I don't think he is robust enough.

I think Kloppo should do a Rodgers and leak it to the media.

[CowboyKangaroo]

As it goes I was at a bus stop with Jurgen around that time and I told him to sign Nkunku. He said fuck me I've never seen a talking donkey before and then said that's what the stats guys said. However, I don't think he is robust enough.

I think kloppo should do a Rodgers and leak it to the emedia.

That's a tier 1 source mate.

[wemmick]

I think Nunez has become a victim of Mo's and Mane's decline. He is a very good striker. Every club in the league would have him. But, we are losing goals with Mo sooner or later. Darwin adequately replaced Mane's goals and assists, but there is no one to replace Mo's in the forward line. It feels like we are expecting Nunez to score more to fill the coming void--of which we have recently seen a preview. That's a big ask. It is possible we just need to buy another goal scorer? Improvements are needed in Darwin's game, but is it good enough if he matches Mane's output? He is not far off.     

[Eeyore]

That's a tier 1 source mate.

The weirdest part was a car window went down next to the bus stop and this aging cockney geezer most famous for being on I am celebrity stuck his head out the window and told us "that's nothing I was going to sign them before you had even heard of them".

[istvan kozma]

I think Nunez has become a victim of Mo's and Mane's decline. He is a very good striker. Every club in the league would have him. But, we are losing goals with Mo sooner or later. Darwin adequately replaced Mane's goals and assists, but there is no one to replace Mo's in the forward line. It feels like we are expecting Nunez to score more to fill the coming void--of which we have recently seen a preview. That's a big ask. It is possible we just need to buy another goal scorer? Improvements are needed in Darwin's game, but is it good enough if he matches Mane's output? He is not far off.   

What is it with people purely using numbers to analysis things. Do people actually watch football or do go online to check someones Xg instead. To claim Nunez is 'not far' from Mane's output, after watching both players performances in their first 2 seasons, is ridiculous.

[Knight]

They know a lot more about data than most on here (including me) and they don't seem to rate him but he gets defended based on the same data.

Goodness me. The journos recycle content from last season and people are all over it in their glee to dismiss Nunez. Even Bascombe gets a free hit if he criticises the whipping boy.

[MonsLibpool]

Goodness me. The journos recycle content from last season and people are all over it in their glee to dismiss Nunez. Even Bascombe gets a free hit if he criticises the whipping boy.

Joyce said something similar at the same time. It must be a coincidence.

[MonsLibpool]

What is it with people purely using numbers to analysis things. Do people actually watch football or do go online to check someones Xg instead. To claim Nunez is 'not far' from Mane's output, after watching both players performances in their first 2 seasons, is ridiculous.

Actual football doesn’t matter anymore.

Why not "watch" the stats in real-time?

[mullyred94]

Actual football doesn’t matter anymore.

Why not "watch" the stats in real-time?

I " watched " him open the scoring or assisting a fair few of our opening goals when the team was playing well during dec-feb.

I also " watched " him win the most points by an individual in the league.

[Eeyore]

What is it with people purely using numbers to analysis things. Do people actually watch football or do go online to check someones Xg instead. To claim Nunez is 'not far' from Mane's output, after watching both players performances in their first 2 seasons, is ridiculous.

Forget xG and concentrate on actual output across their first two seasons. Mane 23 League goals and 12 assists. Nunez 1 season and 35 games 20 League goals and 11 assists.

So it is factually correct to state that Nunez has adequately replaced Mane's output after two seasons.

[MonsLibpool]

I " watched " him open the scoring or assisting a fair few of our opening goals when the team was playing well during dec-feb.

I also " watched " him win the most points by an individual in the league.

I respect your opinion.

There's just a clear disconnect between  what I see on here and the leaks the other day.

It's a forum so different opinions are welcome. The stats experts leaked that they were not in favour of signing him around 2 years after so it's possible for one to assume that don't rate him because I don't see why they'd leak it in the first place.

[mullyred94]

I respect your opinion.

There's just a clear disconnect between  what I see on here and the leaks the other day.

That they preferred the lad from RB?

[MonsLibpool]

That they preferred the lad from RB?

It's too late for a circular discussion.

Darwin is "very much" a Klopp signing according to Paul Joyce.

If you disagree that's fine.

[mullyred94]

It's too late for a circular discussion.

Darwin is "very much" a Klopp signing according to Paul Joyce.

If you disagree that's fine.

Darwin was pushed because of Klopp I never said he wasn't, thats been known since before the last week but where is the leaks that Edwards wants him to replace him?

[istvan kozma]

Forget xG and concentrate on actual output across their first two seasons. Mane 23 League goals and 12 assists. Nunez 1 season and 35 games 20 League goals and 11 assists.

So it is factually correct to state that Nunez has adequately replaced Mane's output after two seasons.

Proves my point, lies damn lie & statistics.

[Eeyore]

Proves my point, lies damn lie & statistics.

I think you will find they are called facts my friend.

[istvan kozma]

I think you will find they are called facts my friend.

Facts are Danny Drinkwater has more pl winners medals than Steven Gerrard.
See, anybody can use certain facts to justify nonsense, my friend.

[Eeyore]

It's too late for a circular discussion.

Darwin is "very much" a Klopp signing according to Paul Joyce.

If you disagree that's fine.

Where does that say the stats guys thought Nunez had poor numbers?

That is what you are alleging but without a single scrap of evidence.

[Eeyore]

Facts are Danny Drinkwater has more pl winners medals than Steven Gerrard.
See anybody use certain facts to justify nonsense, mate.

No one has said any different though. They have compared the output of Mane and Nunez over two seasons.

[mullyred94]

Facts are Danny Drinkwater has more pl winners medals than Steven Gerrard.
See, anybody use certain facts to justify nonsense, my friend.

What does that have to do with Nunez replicating Mane's goals and assists ?

[istvan kozma]

No one has said any different though. They have compared the output of Mane and Nunez over two seasons.

Mane's performance's far outweigh Nunez's when you compare the 2. Unless you're only going to use the stat sheet to analysis every players performance.

[istvan kozma]

What does that have to do with Nunez replicating Mane's goals and assists ?

Maybe if he replicated Mane's performance's he wouldn't be starting & finishing the season on the bench, that's my point.
I know you're 'Nunez's love child' but stop with the nonsense.

[wemmick]

What is it with people purely using numbers to analysis things. Do people actually watch football or do go online to check someones Xg instead. To claim Nunez is 'not far' from Mane's output, after watching both players performances in their first 2 seasons, is ridiculous.

Take it easy, mate. Mane was a far more complete player than Nunez. His defense, especially, was light years ahead of where Nunez is now. But, I am only talking about a very simple metric: goals and assists. Diaz replaced Mane's role taking on defenders and pulling the defensive shape out of alignment from out wide. Nunez nearly replaced his goals and assists. Are we expecting him to now make up for Salah's decline? Are we asking too much? Seems like we would need a generational striker to do that.     

[Eeyore]

Mane's performance's far outweigh Nunez's when you compare the 2. Unless you're only going to use the stat sheet to analysis every players performance.

The argument wasn't over the level of performance though it was specifically over output. That is something that can be measured.

This is the main bone of contention regarding Nunez. No one is saying he has been outstanding and the consensus is that he has been disappointing lately. However what is not acceptable is to ignore the facts regarding his output.

[istvan kozma]

The argument wasn't over the level of performance though it was specifically over output. That is something that can be measured.

This is the main bone of contention regarding Nunez. No one is saying he has been outstanding and the consensus is that he has been disappointing lately. However what is not acceptable is to ignore the facts regarding his output.

Yes it was, my argument is people always using numbers to gauge everything instead of watching the game.

[istvan kozma]

Take it easy, mate. Mane was a far more complete player than Nunez. His defense, especially, was light years ahead of where Nunez is now. But, I am only talking about a very simple metric: goals and assists. Diaz replaced Mane's role taking on defenders and pulling the defensive shape out of alignment from out wide. Nunez nearly replaced his goals and assists. Are we expecting him to now make up for Salah's decline? Are we asking too much? Seems like we would need a generational striker to do that.     

That's why LFC agreed to pay the £80 plus

[RedG13]

No offense, you're talking nonsense. You don't break a club record on a striker because you think he's going to be good in his late twenties.

He also very good now. The team is much better attacking with him on the pitch.
ALso thinking a striker who get less shots and worse output relevative which you have said is crazy.
Nunez is basically over 95% percentile in everything but SCA and His actual goals. He really good there not a striker I would take over him in the PL

[Eeyore]

Yes it was, my argument is people always using numbers to gauge everything instead of watching the game.

Output is quantifiable though. It doesn't require subjective analysis. What you are attempting to do is akin to arguing with a mathematician regarding an equation. Argue about opinions don't argue over facts.

[istvan kozma]

Output is quantifiable though. It doesn't require subjective analysis. What you are attempting to do is akin to arguing with a mathematician regarding an equation. Argue about opinions don't argue over facts.

No offense but you must be the most ignorant person on these boards. To ignore what someone is telling you so you can win a pointless argument on a football forum is ridiculous. Your definition of output and mine are different, I've explained it multiple times, yet you're still trying to be the smartest person in the room.

[Eeyore]

No offense but you must be the most ignorant person on these boards. To ignore what someone is telling you so you can win a pointless argument on a football forum is ridiculous. Your definition of output and mine are different, I've explained it multiple times, yet you're still trying to be the smartest person in the room.

When did you define what output was?

Wemmick has clearly stated that he was talking about goals and assists. Well, goals and assists are numbers. Numbers are easily quantifiable.

You are repeatedly using your own subjective opinion to argue against facts. We can all argue about our own subjective opinions. What we can't argue about is the facts. How many goals and how many assists he has had are facts, not opinions.

[Cpt_Reina]

What about the *fact* that Mane played his first season supported by players like Lucas, Lallana, Can in CM supplying him. And with Clyne as his RB, certainly not the most creative fullback in PL history who hadn't even made his debut.

Darwin however comes in to Liverpool with Klopp's machine already humming. It may not be in its heyday, but it has Mo still close to his prime. Trent and Robbo the two all time creative full backs, Firmino and Jota also would have walked in to that team Mane came in to. Even Thiago managed 18 apps that season.

They are definitely not the same thing.

Just another example of how stats can be massaged to suit a point and presented as if they're indifferent of opinion, they're FACT.

"Compare mane and Darwin's first 2 seasons, what could be fairer? What could be more accurate than a direct comparison? Darwin has been here 2 seasons, just compare them to Manes first 2 and that's a great insight we can definitely learn a lot from"

Just ignore all the context. Only look at the ridiculously shallow criteria I've defined for this comparison. Yes it's as deep as a puddle, but it suits my starting point.

[Buster Gonad]

Well thankfully we dodged the Nkunku bullet. We may never know if he's as good as Darwin due to him making Naby Keita look like dead pool. He's also 2 years older.

Nunez has been both good and disappointing.  He's become a hate figure for many in the fanbase but personally what's frustrated me are the 3 or 4 howlers. (Luton springs to mind). Bad luck has played a part. World class saves and hitting the post have been a feature.  There's no doubt he'll be a Liverpool player next season and realistically if he had 5 more goals this season he'd be as good as anyone in the league.  It will be interesting to see how a new manager works with him.

[Eeyore]

What about the *fact* that Mane played his first season supported by players like Lucas, Lallana, Can in CM supplying him. And with Clyne as his RB, certainly not the most creative fullback in PL history who hadn't even made his debut.

Darwin however comes in to Liverpool with Klopp's machine already humming. It may not be in its heyday, but it has Mo still close to his prime. Trent and Robbo the two all time creative full backs, Firmino and Jota also would have walked in to that team Mane came in to. Even Thiago managed 18 apps that season.

They are definitely not the same thing.

In Mane's first season he played in a front three alongside Firmino and Coutinho, two of our most creative players over the last decade. Lallana was really creative.

[elkun]

U leave this thread for a few days and people are comparing Mane with Nunez… if Mane got half the chances that Nunez got this season we would have been comfortably 1st in the league.

[Cpt_Reina]

In Mane's first season he played in a front three alongside Firmino and Coutinho, two of our most creative players over the last decade. Lallana was really creative.

The season before Mane joined we finished 8th.

The season before Darwin joined we came 2nd with 92 points, won' both domestic trophies and reached the final of the CL

Worlds apart.

Mane's 13 goals that season he joined are not the same as Darwin's 11 last term. The situations they arrived in to and played their debut seasons in are as different as possibly could be.

Bad faith argument to suggest anything other than that.

[Buster Gonad]

The season before Mane joined we finished 8th.

The season before Darwin joined we came 2nd with 92 points, won' both domestic trophies and reached the final of the CL

Worlds apart.

Mane's 13 goals that season he joined are not the same as Darwin's 11 last term. The situations they arrived in to and played their debut seasons in are as different as possibly could be.

Bad faith argument to suggest anything other than that.

Not really that different at all actually.  You don't play in the season before you arrived. Sadio played in a better team than the previous years side. In fairness he was one of the reasons why. Nunez joined a side who's midfield had fallen off a cliff and bore little resemblance to the year before. In fact both teams finished with a very similar points and goal tally.

Nobody can compare both as players as Nunez still has lots to prove and Sadio was one of the greatest ever to pull on the shirt.