Topic: Darwin Núñez (Darwin Gabriel Núñez Ribeiro)

[JackWard33]

Its a good job you're allowed to buy as well as sell isn't it?

And we have our top level data nerds back in charge of recruitment. Light work.

Haha this is amazing
Your idea is to get rid of two of the highest producing forwards - data wise - in the game …and use data to replace them …  it’s so beyond dumb that language skills elude me

You’re literally saying ‘their output isn’t good enough … and while I can see they have great underlying data .. their output isn’t good enough so I’ll get rid of them and buy other forwards .. using… wait for it …great underlying data’
That’s before we get into the impossibility of buying 2 0.95 xg+xa/90 forwards (or even 1)

[Coolie High]

Why are people on here deliberately ignoring all round play and creation of chances etc.  Mane, in his third season, with more than 3000 mins had 23 goal involvements.  Nunez this season, at a younger age than Mane, and on less than 2000 mins, has 19.  So thats only 4 fewer.  And at a much better rate.

Because it’s simplistic to think all round play doesn’t involve, carrying the ball, how consistent your touch is, the defensive work you do for your team and etc.

[mullyred94]

Because it’s simplistic to think all round play doesn’t involve, carrying the ball, how consistent your touch is, the defensive work you do for your team and etc.

Nunez doesn't do defensive work or carry the ball for the team ?

Why has he created 5 goals at least from pressing this season then?

Are we talking about Darwin or Mo ?

[AndyMuller]

How much better?  POTS?  Ballon D'Or winner?  As lets be honest, he is getting a (non-pen) goal or assist every 105 mins which only 5 players in the entire league are doing, and all of them are being discussed for Player of the year by many (and in fact, one for Ballon D'Or consideration).

Putting the ball in the back of the net and not looking like a competition winner at times will be nice.

[Cpt_Reina]

Haha this is amazing
Your idea is to get rid of two of the highest producing forwards - data wise - in the game …and use data to replace them …  it’s so beyond dumb that language skills elude me

You’re literally saying ‘their output isn’t good enough … and while I can see they have great underlying data .. their output isn’t good enough so I’ll get rid of them and buy other forwards .. using… wait for it …great underlying data’
That’s before we get into the impossibility of buying 2 0.95 xg+xa/90 forwards (or even 1)

I don't think you got the tone of my post. But that's OK.

Also, I don't think Nunez will be sold. I do think Salah certainly has a very good chance of it.

I wouldn't be selling them based on their underlying numbers, more the fact that Salah has 1 year on his contract to run, he's 32, and this is the last chance we have to get any cash for him without a) him leaving for free or b) offering a 32yo clearly in decline physically and arguably (probably) technically. That Salah decision to sell would be highly contextual.

The Darwin decision to sell again, I wouldn't be doing it based on his underlying numbers would I? Id be selling him based on the average 10 league goals per season he's managing in the PL probably not being good enough to win a league title and the gamble that he won't improve enough to get close to the numbers that would. I understand your be willing to take the other side of that bet that he will.

Regarding our recruitment approach, you and most others who put a data led approach in the highest regard and believe that Edwards and his guys are soothsayers when it comes to identifying talent... Replacing two forwards shouldn't be some sort of outrageous task, should it?

Are you simultaneously taking up the position that our recruitment team are potentially world leading and able to find value in the market but also of the opinion that it's pointless because we can't improve on what we already have?

Where's the evidence that those leading our sporting project even believe Darwin's underlying numbers are 'elite' and he would be irreplaceable or even hard to replace? They didn't buy him. In fact, they didn't even want to buy him and have doubled down on that since coming back.

[Knight]

Haha this is amazing
Your idea is to get rid of two of the highest producing forwards - data wise - in the game …and use data to replace them …  it’s so beyond dumb that language skills elude me

You’re literally saying ‘their output isn’t good enough … and while I can see they have great underlying data .. their output isn’t good enough so I’ll get rid of them and buy other forwards .. using… wait for it …great underlying data’
That’s before we get into the impossibility of buying 2 0.95 xg+xa/90 forwards (or even 1)

Nah it's fine. We'll sell them, look at the data, and then buy them back. Simples.

[mullyred94]

I don't think you got the tone of my post. But that's OK.

Also, I don't think Nunez will be sold. I do think Salah certainly has a very good chance of it.

I wouldn't be selling them based on their underlying numbers, more the fact that Salah has 1 year on his contract to run, he's 32, and this is the last chance we have to get any cash for him without a) him leaving for free or b) offering a 32yo clearly in decline physically and arguably (probably) technically. That Salah decision to sell would be highly contextual.

The Darwin decision to sell again, I wouldn't be doing it based on his underlying numbers would I? Id be selling him based on the average 10 league goals per season he's managing in the PL probably not being good enough to win a league title and the gamble that he won't improve enough to get close to the numbers that would. I understand your be willing to take the other side of that bet that he will.

Regarding our recruitment approach, you and most others who put a data led approach in the highest regard and believe that Edwards and his guys are soothsayers when it comes to identifying talent... Replacing two forwards shouldn't be some sort of outrageous task, should it?

Are you simultaneously taking up the position that our recruitment team are potentially world leading and able to find value in the market but also of the opinion that it's pointless because we can't improve on what we already have?

Where's the evidence that those leading our sporting project even believe Darwin's underlying numbers are 'elite' and he would be irreplaceable or even hard to replace? They didn't buy him. In fact, they didn't even want to buy him and have doubled down on that since coming back.

Everything bar his finishing is elite in underlying numbers though aren't they?

Think thats the point isn't it?

Why get someone from a poor league or team in hope of getting those numbers or bettering them when you already have great numbers from Nunez apart from his finishing %

Honest question, don't you think the stat guys would look at Diaz rather than Nunez as being the player who would be upgraded?

Diaz has underperformed his XG same amount of Nunez with less creativity ?

[Cpt_Reina]

Everything bar his finishing is elite in underlying numbers though aren't they?

Think thats the point isn't it?

Why get someone from a poor league or team in hope of getting those numbers or bettering them when you already have great numbers from Nunez apart from his finishing %

Honest question, don't you think the stat guys would look at Diaz rather than Nunez as being the player who would be upgraded?

Diaz has underperformed his XG same amount of Nunez with less creativity ?

Great. So our no9 is elite at everything other than putting the ball in the net?

Maybe it would be OK to sacrifice a few of those underlying numbers in favour of someone who's better at that one specific part? Could be.

Might be useful to find someone who's less adept with the shot creating actions for themselves in favour of more of system player. A 'downgrade' on the fbref chart but upgrade on actual goals scored.

I'm not interested in using Diaz as a comparison point. One player not being good enough does not by proxy make another good enough.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Great. So our no9 is elite at everything other than putting the ball in the net?

Maybe it would be OK to sacrifice a few of those underlying numbers in favour of someone who's better at that one specific part? Could be.

Might be useful to find someone who's less adept with the shot creating actions for themselves in favour of more of system player. A 'downgrade' on the fbref chart but upgrade on actual goals scored.

I'm not interested in using Diaz as a comparison point. One player not being good enough does not by proxy make another good enough.

Using Diaz is the point in that we are saying get rid of Salah and Nunez for underperforming and there's a player who is underperforming more than them in nearly every metric (in fact 2 players because of Gakpo too, although stylistically very different).

Do we get rid of all of them then? Buy a whole new forward line bar Jota who can play 2/3rds of the season

[mullyred94]

Great. So our no9 is elite at everything other than putting the ball in the net?

Maybe it would be OK to sacrifice a few of those underlying numbers in favour of someone who's better at that one specific part? Could be.

Might be useful to find someone who's less adept with the shot creating actions for themselves in favour of more of system player. A 'downgrade' on the fbref chart but upgrade on actual goals scored.

I'm not interested in using Diaz as a comparison point. One player not being good enough does not by proxy make another good enough.

I mean that's pretty much the case is it not?

Maybe it would be okay to play a front 2, or play Nunez on the wing sell Diaz for 75m who contributed 13 goals and assists and get a goal scorer then?

I mean at least Nunez for his lack of finishing has created alot of chances for other players also.

He won the penalty with pressing against City and Diaz missed a chance against City that if was Nunez he would have been crucified. OR when Nunez put it on a plate for Diaz yet he got infront of the ball and mistimed a touch in 1v1 chance? Same game btw against the team

I mean Nunez has probably played 1/3 of his games for Liverpool from the left also hasn't he? Same position as a Luis Diaz.

Another stat to look at, Nunez has a higher xA then Diaz so Diaz isn't the one creating the chances or scoring the goals..

Yet he is held in high esteem because he ran around more than anyone else in the last month and finally dribbled past a few players.

[jepovic]

I still dont see who we could buy that would be an upgrade on Nunez
Our competitors dont have better strikers (bar Haaland). I would put Son and Isak on par with him, maybe Havertz too although he's a very different type, but Jackson and Hojlund are clearly worse.
If it was easy to get a 20-non penalty goal / year striker, we would see more of them around.

[Coolie High]

Nunez doesn't do defensive work or carry the ball for the team ?

Why has he created 5 goals at least from pressing this season then?

Are we talking about Darwin or Mo ?

Not as much as Mane. We don’t need to compare the both to be honest, if you can watch football and think the two players impacts have been comparable, then I don’t know maybe it’s time to give up on watching the sport altogether and just read the end results and stats on a laptop.

[mullyred94]

Not as much as Mane. We don’t need to compare the both to be honest, if you can watch football and think the two players impacts have been comparable, then I don’t know maybe it’s time to give up on watching the sport altogether and just read the end results and stats on a laptop.

Impacts or output?

Changing the goalposts mate

[Darren G]

I picked the players for a couple of reasons they had been brought up in the thread and crucially they had all improved their goalscoring records as they entered their prime.

Ironically the players you have listed have all done that. Over the two previous seasons, Mateta scored 2 League and 2 League goals, Hwang scored 3 and 5, Cunha scored 2 goals last season at Atletico and Wolves and Wood this season has scored at his best rate ever at 0.69 goals per 90 at the age of 31.

 

Nope, you know damned well why you picked them and omitted the vast majority of the top scorers in the league (including the top three) whilst simultaneously making the (untrue) insinuation that the top scorers in the league all had 3000 plus minutes. You said absolutely nothing in your previous responses about the reasons that you now claim are the reason that you picked them. The truth is, you picked them because there really was no-one else that fit your 3000+ minutes narrative, despite adding "etc." after naming them to give the impression that there were more. I suppose it was sheer coincidence too that the three players that you picked for (insert bullshit reason) happened to be the only 3 players with minutes that high, which you also just happened to know when you used them as examples. It's laughable.

Furthermore, you are also well aware that this whole conversation has had nothing whatsoever to do with player development, what the aforementioned players did or didn't do last season or how they've improved their xG et cetera, et cetera. It's just 'noise'. The usual 'change-up' that you employ when you don't have a direct answer.  I saw you do the same over and over with that lad that you used to argue with on the FSG thread and this is the second time now that you have done so with me in this one.

So, For clarity...The entire conversation was about Darwin's poor goal scoring record this season.  You initially inferred that his goal output was less than the top goalscorers due to markedly less minutes played. That is not the case, even with your 'penalties don't count' caveat. I have then illustrated that Darwin has been performing at the same level as rather mediocre players, playing in worse teams in terms of his goals/minutes output.  Which players had an xG of blah, blah, blah, or who wasn't scoring two seasons ago and which of those players are entering their prime is utterly irrelevant in that context.

The simple fact is that they are mediocre players, playing in far poorer teams than Liverpool and that Darwin has had roughly the same output in terms of goals/minutes.  It hasn't been good enough for two seasons now.  Does that mean that he won't improve? No. Does that mean that I want him sold? No. I'm not going to be some desperate apologist for him though, arguing in bad faith, mashing together stats to create the hypothetical amount of goals that he's scored over his two seasons here in leu of the actual reality, or cherry-picking stats to support false narratives.  I'll leave that to you, I'm done with this now.

[Coolie High]

Using Diaz is the point in that we are saying get rid of Salah and Nunez for underperforming and there's a player who is underperforming more than them in nearly every metric (in fact 2 players because of Gakpo too, although stylistically very different).

Do we get rid of all of them then? Buy a whole new forward line bar Jota who can play 2/3rds of the season

We shouldn’t get rid of any them, if there was one player I would get rid if a gun was pointed to my head it would be Gakpo. The problem is I guess the problem we’ve had is there’s question marks on what we would normally consider our sole world class attacker(Salah), Jota the player I think could have been closest to that level this season has been injured at crucial times and Nunez who should eventually get there isn’t quite there yet.

[Coolie High]

Impacts or output?

Changing the goalposts mate

I’m not changing the goalposts I don’t think it’s even worth arguing cause it’s such an absurd concept to even think Nunez this season has come close to Manes third season at this club.

[mullyred94]

I’m not changing the goalposts I don’t think it’s even worth arguing cause it’s such an absurd concept to even think Nunez this season has come close to Manes third season at this club.

Was just agreeing with the point brought up after 2 seasons there goal scoring and assist return is very similar.

There's obviously context involved but the first bloke was trying to argue that is a fact.

Mane was the best LW since Barnes and was an elite player.

I'm not trying to argue the fact he was as good as him etc, just simply stating that the goal and assist return was quite similar.

I also brought up a point a few days ago that in my opinion with the shift from Bobby to Nunez and Mane to Diaz that the roles would reverse.

More goals from Nunez and more creative side from Diaz. Like I said when I initially posted that point that both of them have not replicated the overall impact.

[Buster Gonad]

There's gonna be some meltdown when we neither sell or buy another forward I reckon.

[PaleBlueDot]

Everything bar his finishing is elite in underlying numbers though aren't they?

'Underlying numbers'. What is elite? Not even bashing him but I keep hearing he is elite outside finishing and provides a lot. 'Creates chaos'.

What does this actually mean? Because I don't see much good play from him on the ball. Is this chances he creates from running at people and making them make mistakes? Or winning headers he shouldn't get etc? I commend these things but what is the actual return on this kind of chaos?

I'm struggling to see what is 'elite' about it.

Why are people on here deliberately ignoring all round play and creation of chances etc.  Mane, in his third season, with more than 3000 mins had 23 goal involvements.  Nunez this season, at a younger age than Mane, and on less than 2000 mins, has 19.  So thats only 4 fewer.  And at a much better rate.

This is what is dangerous about just using numbers. Mane did 10x the things Nunez does now on the pitch. Tackling, carrying the ball. Effective progression up the pitch. Passing. All round football. Not saying Nunez doesn't but it's not a scratch on Mane.

This is why you would look at those Mane numbers and be happy with his season but not with Nunez. Coz he doesn't provide much else.

[PaleBlueDot]

I still dont see who we could buy that would be an upgrade on Nunez
Our competitors dont have better strikers (bar Haaland). I would put Son and Isak on par with him, maybe Havertz too although he's a very different type, but Jackson and Hojlund are clearly worse.
If it was easy to get a 20-non penalty goal / year striker, we would see more of them around.

 

[mullyred94]

'Underlying numbers'. What is elite? Not even bashing him but I keep hearing he is elite outside finishing and provides a lot. 'Creates chaos'.

What does this actually mean? Because I don't see much good play from him on the ball. Is this chances he creates from running at people and making them make mistakes? Or winning headers he shouldn't get etc? I commend these things but what is the actual return on this kind of chaos?

I'm struggling to see what is 'elite' about it.

This is what is dangerous about just using numbers. Mane did 10x the things Nunez does now on the pitch. Tackling, carrying the ball. Effective progression up the pitch. Passing. All round football. Not saying Nunez doesn't but it's not a scratch on Mane.

This is why you would look at those Mane numbers and be happy with his season but not with Nunez. Coz he doesn't provide much else.

31 goals and assists in 62 games to put it lightly.

If you want to look deeper go look at his stats this is getting tiresome now.

[Knight]

Palebluedot is giving real ‘what did Nunez ever do for us’ vibes with that post. Good stuff. I’m guessing it’s satire, right?

[NickoH]

I still dont see who we could buy that would be an upgrade on Nunez
Our competitors dont have better strikers (bar Haaland). I would put Son and Isak on par with him, maybe Havertz too although he's a very different type, but Jackson and Hojlund are clearly worse.
If it was easy to get a 20-non penalty goal / year striker, we would see more of them around.

Son is streets ahead of him in my opinion

[harryc]

He’s elite at the way he can’t control a ball or maybe the way he can’t hold the ball up without it bouncing off his shin to a defender. Maybe the number of times he’s offside - what’s the underlying numbers say ☺️

[Cpt_Reina]

Using Diaz is the point in that we are saying get rid of Salah and Nunez for underperforming and there's a player who is underperforming more than them in nearly every metric (in fact 2 players because of Gakpo too, although stylistically very different).

Do we get rid of all of them then? Buy a whole new forward line bar Jota who can play 2/3rds of the season

Overhauling an area of the pitch which isnt delivering isn't unheard of?

We did it last summer with the midfield. We bought Salah and Mane in consecutive summers.

Do we really not trust recruitment overlords to not be able to replace Darwin's 10 league goals a season and a 32yo Salah in decline? I don't get it. Are they good at what they do or not? There's a world full of talented forwards out there but those 2 or 3 can't be improved upon?

Our season tanked because we couldn't put the ball in the net for about 6 weeks, shouldn't it be high on the list of things to fix?

[mullyred94]

Overhauling an area of the pitch which isnt delivering isn't unheard of?

We did it last summer with the midfield. We bought Salah and Mane in consecutive summers.

Do we really not trust recruitment overlords to not be able to replace Darwin's 10 league goals a season and a 32yo Salah in decline? I don't get it. Are they good at what they do or not? There's a world full of talented forwards out there but those 2 or 3 can't be improved upon?

Our season tanked because we couldn't put the ball in the net for about 6 weeks, shouldn't it be high on the list of things to fix?

Probably easier to improve on 13 G/A then 19G/A no?

[JasonF]

Overhauling an area of the pitch which isnt delivering isn't unheard of?

We did it last summer with the midfield. We bought Salah and Mane in consecutive summers.

Do we really not trust recruitment overlords to not be able to replace Darwin's 10 league goals a season and a 32yo Salah in decline? I don't get it. Are they good at what they do or not? There's a world full of talented forwards out there but those 2 or 3 can't be improved upon?

Our season tanked because we couldn't put the ball in the net for about 6 weeks, shouldn't it be high on the list of things to fix?

This image is from 25 days ago. When we had the most goals (by a decent margin) of any club in Europe.

Obviously the wheels have come off a bit in those last 3+ weeks, we've likely dropped a couple of places in that list, but I really don't think you can compare the situation with our attack to last seasons midfield problems and the much needed rebuild that followed.

[PaleBlueDot]

Palebluedot is giving real ‘what did Nunez ever do for us’ vibes with that post. Good stuff. I’m guessing it’s satire, right?

You're always on my case but never have an answer for my posts.

Wasn't a 'what did Nunez ever do for us' post. But didn't expect you to be able to comprehend given your recent posts aimed at me.

[mullyred94]

You're always on my case but never have an answer for my posts.

Wasn't a 'what did Nunez ever do for us' post. But didn't expect you to be able to comprehend given your recent posts aimed at me.

Only creates "chaos"

Salah 17 GCA Nunez & Jota 14 Luis Diaz is on 9 and Gakpo is on 8.

Creates more than " chaos "

[Cpt_Reina]

This image is from 25 days ago. When we had the most goals (by a decent margin) of any club in Europe.

Obviously the wheels have come off a bit in those last 3+ weeks, we've likely dropped a couple of places in that list, but I really don't think you can compare the situation with our attack to last seasons midfield problems and the much needed rebuild that followed.

Call me pedantic but that number is more than a little inflated by some ridiculous Europa League scorelines is it not?

11 goals vs Sparta Prague. 7 against Tolouse. 7 against LASK.

Some genuinely awful opposition helping us pad those numbers. .

[Andar]

This image is from 25 days ago. When we had the most goals (by a decent margin) of any club in Europe.

Obviously the wheels have come off a bit in those last 3+ weeks, we've likely dropped a couple of places in that list, but I really don't think you can compare the situation with our attack to last seasons midfield problems and the much needed rebuild that followed.

The Europa League and a long run in the League cup has padded up our stats.

Besides it goes beyond that. He is a poor footballer (lack of football intelligence, can't trap a ball and link up play which is lower league stuff). He's our very own Lukaku. Along with that he continuously flaps at big chances (majority of them one-on-ones) in pressure moments. At least Lukaku has the ability to produce in big moments on the odd occasion.

It's a horrible combination.

I'm personally hoping someone like Simeone at Atletico makes a move for him, and we can actually buy someone who resembles an actual footballer who is fit for a big club. Simeone is the type who would turn a blind eye to his weaknesses. So would Mourinho but unfortunately he isn't employed at any club.

[Knight]

You're always on my case but never have an answer for my posts.

Wasn't a 'what did Nunez ever do for us' post. But didn't expect you to be able to comprehend given your recent posts aimed at me.

So many of the posts in here merit genuine derision. Your latest one joins an increasingly long list. It's not aimed specifically at you. It's aimed at anyone who sees Nunez's actual output (never mind the underlying numbers which are disputed) and asks, 'what does Nunez actually do?' or 'he's rubbish' or 'he's not good enough'. For another example of a post that merits derision see the one directly above this.

[JasonF]

Call me pedantic but that number is more than a little inflated by some ridiculous Europa League scorelines is it not?

11 goals vs Sparta Prague. 7 against Tolouse. 7 against LASK.

Some genuinely awful opposition helping us pad those numbers. .

Have you looked at Leverkusen & Man City's fixtures for comparison?

Leverkusen have handed out whoppings to giants like FC Teutonia Ottensen, Häcken, Qarabağ, Sandhausen, Molde etc.

Man City haven't faced as many weak sides as us or Leverkusen but a substantial number of their goals did come against the likes of Red Star, Young Boys, Huddersfield and Luton.

You can only beat what is in front of you, and for the majority of the season we've done that and with goals galore along the way.

[PaleBlueDot]

So many of the posts in here merit genuine derision. Your latest one joins an increasingly long list. It's not aimed specifically at you. It's aimed at anyone who sees Nunez's actual output (never mind the underlying numbers which are disputed) and asks, 'what does Nunez actually do?' or 'he's rubbish' or 'he's not good enough'. For another example of a post that merits derision see the one directly above this.

So more nonsense without answering me. Sorry I don't blindly back Nunez and fall in line like you do. I am questioning those who claim Nunez brings 'elite' things outside goal-scoring.

I know what Nunez brings. He's 'there' in the final third often. His pace and movement makes his availability to be a target of a pass or cross more often than other players would. He tries incredibly hard every game and never hides. These are all qualities I rate about him.

I also feel like he does not do enough with the ball even when he has done brilliantly to be there in the first place. Outside(!) his goal scoring. This is why whilst I commend his 'chaos' and the energy he brings I do not think the overall return is good enough. Be that his dribbling, passing or scoring.

His numbers are not awful. They are not elite either. Overall he is my favourite personality in the team because of his effort on the pitch and how it contrasts to his personality off it. I can also hold the opinion he is not good enough to lead the line for us.

I asked for clarity on what he thought was 'elite underlying numbers' outside Nunez's goal scoring to see if it varied from mine and how much others value that.

But keep being annoying.

[Scottymuser]

Overhauling an area of the pitch which isnt delivering isn't unheard of?

We did it last summer with the midfield. We bought Salah and Mane in consecutive summers.

Do we really not trust recruitment overlords to not be able to replace Darwin's 10 league goals a season and a 32yo Salah in decline? I don't get it. Are they good at what they do or not? There's a world full of talented forwards out there but those 2 or 3 can't be improved upon?

Our season tanked because we couldn't put the ball in the net for about 6 weeks, shouldn't it be high on the list of things to fix?

But thats a mis-representation again from you = it is 19 goal involvements, in less than 2000 league minutes.  To pretend his only impact is "10 league goals in a season" is massively, massively under-representing his actual numbers and impact.  There are less than 10 forwards in the world who are better right now than him, thats just a fact.

[Scottymuser]

So more nonsense without answering me. Sorry I don't blindly back Nunez and fall in line like you do. I am questioning those who claim Nunez brings 'elite' things outside goal-scoring.

I know what Nunez brings. He's 'there' in the final third often. His pace and movement makes his availability to be a target of a pass or cross more often than other players would. He tries incredibly hard every game and never hides. These are all qualities I rate about him.

I also feel like he does not do enough with the ball even when he has done brilliantly to be there in the first place. Outside(!) his goal scoring. This is why whilst I commend his 'chaos' and the energy he brings I do not think the overall return is good enough. Be that his dribbling, passing or scoring.

His numbers are not awful. They are not elite either. Overall he is my favourite personality in the team because of his effort on the pitch and how it contrasts to his personality off it. I can also hold the opinion he is not good enough to lead the line for us.

I asked for clarity on what he thought was 'elite underlying numbers' outside Nunez's goal scoring to see if it varied from mine and how much others value that.

But keep being annoying.

So if a non-pen goal or assist (non-pen as that is always the correct metric to compare players across clubs) every 105 mins if not elite, than what is?  As Mane never managed that, for instance, for us.  And his under-performance to xG is not that much worse than Haaland - a player I'd put money on you thinking he is more than world class for City.

[Cpt_Reina]

But thats a mis-representation again from you = it is 19 goal involvements, in less than 2000 league minutes.  To pretend his only impact is "10 league goals in a season" is massively, massively under-representing his actual numbers and impact.  There are less than 10 forwards in the world who are better right now than him, thats just a fact.

His *actual* goalscoring in the premier league is 9 goal and 11 goal seasons.

There's no misrepresentation there at all?

That's what we'd be trying to replace. 10 league goals a season on average. Based on what we've seen.

Ill even be generous and call it 15 premier league goals a season if you like, cos I'm a nice guy, not that Darwin has ever got close to that amount. But even at 15 league goals, I don't know if it's that impossible an of an ask to find in the market.

Especially not when our recruitment team are so damn good.

The player doesn't even need to be as 'rounded' as Darwin to improve us. We don't need all the additional stuff Darwin is apparently so elite at if they're capable of putting 20+ league goals on the board for us.

In fact, you might even argue with Salah aging out or even being shown the door this summer, along with is otherworldly ability to put the ball in the net, that having someone who occupies that space between the width of the goalposts more than any other in our team who's able reliably deliver those goals is more essential than we've had since Salah's arrival in 2017.

Is Darwin that guy? Not just talented enough, but mentally strong enough, dependable enough, cold enough to carry that burden?

[mullyred94]

His *actual* goalscoring in the premier league is 9 goal and 11 goal seasons.

There's no misrepresentation there at all?

That's what we'd be trying to replace. 10 league goals a season on average. Based on what we've seen.

Ill even be generous and call it 15 premier league goals a season if you like, cos I'm a nice guy, not that Darwin has ever got close to that amount. But even at 15 league goals, I don't know if it's that impossible an of an ask to find in the market.

Especially not when our recruitment team are so damn good.

The player doesn't even need to be as 'rounded' as Darwin to improve us. We don't need all the additional stuff Darwin is apparently so elite at if they're capable of putting 20+ league goals on the board for us.

In fact, you might even argue with Salah aging out or even being shown the door this summer, along with is otherworldly ability to put the ball in the net, that having someone who occupies that space between the width of the goalposts more than any other in our team who's able reliably deliver those goals is more essential than we've had since Salah's arrival in 2017.

Is Darwin that guy? Not just talented enough, but mentally strong enough, dependable enough, cold enough to carry that burden?

Is it all on one player though?

What happened to if one doesn't get you the other 2 will.

At the moment its Nunez or Salah then mostly to score with the other players apart from Jota (injured) not offering enough end product in terms of goals or assists.

[Scottymuser]

His *actual* goalscoring in the premier league is 9 goal and 11 goal seasons.

There's no misrepresentation there at all?

That's what we'd be trying to replace. 10 league goals a season on average. Based on what we've seen.

Ill even be generous and call it 15 premier league goals a season if you like, cos I'm a nice guy, not that Darwin has ever got close to that amount. But even at 15 league goals, I don't know if it's that impossible an of an ask to find in the market.

Especially not when our recruitment team are so damn good.

The player doesn't even need to be as 'rounded' as Darwin to improve us. We don't need all the additional stuff Darwin is apparently so elite at if they're capable of putting 20+ league goals on the board for us.

In fact, you might even argue with Salah aging out or even being shown the door this summer, along with is otherworldly ability to put the ball in the net, that having someone who occupies that space between the width of the goalposts more than any other in our team who's able reliably deliver those goals is more essential than we've had since Salah's arrival in 2017.

Is Darwin that guy? Not just talented enough, but mentally strong enough, dependable enough, cold enough to carry that burden?

But why are you only looking at goal scoring?   It is a completely pointless thing to do, without also looking at his assists - it is simply a lie to say we "won't need" his creativity - as the other players in our squad aren't creating enough chances for *anyone* to score 20+ goals without him and Salah in the team. 

[Cpt_Reina]

Is it all on one player though?

What happened to if one doesn't get you the other 2 will.

At the moment its Nunez or Salah then mostly to score with the other players apart from Jota (injured) not offering enough end product in terms of goals or assists.

They're all fair game but this is the Nunez thread.

Salah needs to go this summer or next. Gakpo and Diaz clearly aren't going to be putting up high level numbers in terms of goals scored either. But their profligacy don't make Darwin any more likely to either.

Darwin's work outside of his goalscoring is constantly referenced as a reason he's worth persisting with, but Diaz's work getting us up the pitch, his relentless work ethic, his fantastic attitude and application, never hiding or shirking responsibility in taking the ball isn't used in the same way to defend him it's his lack of numbers on the board...?

As ever, these things mostly boil down to who you like and who you don't. You'll overlook Nunez's flaws but those same flaws existing an a player you don't like as much are defining. Nunez brings more besides just his top level numbers you have to look deeper, he does so much good work for the team. Ignore Diaz's though that guys a bum.