Topic: Sportwashing-A general thread

[oojason]

[Mr Benn please?]

Aren't they copyrighted?

According to the Government's guidance on intellectual property (https://www.gov.uk/using-somebody-elses-intellectual-property#:~:text=Using%20someone's%20trade%20mark%2C%20patent,more%20information%20on%20the%20penalties):

"Using someone's trade mark, patent, copyright or design without their permission is known as ' IP infringement' and could lead to a fine, prison or both."

I'm no expert, but that suggest to me at least that Liverpool and Sunderland may have a case for asking them to remove that instagram post. I'd like to write to the club about this - does anyone know the best way in? Via the supporters group maybe? Or ask SoS to raise it with them? 

It does seem clear that Ettifaq is using this imagery along and others like the mock "this is Anfield sign" and Gerrard and Henderson to market themselves as the "Liverpool of the Saudi league" and attract global Liverpool fans to their shoddy franchise. This makes me feel sad and angry. I hope the whole thing crashes and burns. 

[Tobelius]

 

Idiots.

[Lynndenberries]

To quote Andor, "We let it grow, and now it's here. It's here, and it's not visiting anymore. It wants to stay."

[MonsLibpool]

According to the Government's guidance on intellectual property (https://www.gov.uk/using-somebody-elses-intellectual-property#:~:text=Using%20someone's%20trade%20mark%2C%20patent,more%20information%20on%20the%20penalties):

"Using someone's trade mark, patent, copyright or design without their permission is known as ' IP infringement' and could lead to a fine, prison or both."

I'm no expert, but that suggest to me at least that Liverpool and Sunderland may have a case for asking them to remove that instagram post. I'd like to write to the club about this - does anyone know the best way in? Via the supporters group maybe? Or ask SoS to raise it with them? 

It does seem clear that Ettifaq is using this imagery along and others like the mock "this is Anfield sign" and Gerrard and Henderson to market themselves as the "Liverpool of the Saudi league" and attract global Liverpool fans to their shoddy franchise. This makes me feel sad and angry. I hope the whole thing crashes and burns.

A resident legal expert should be able to help mate.

[oojason]

Idiots.

Yeah, but Capon and myself both mean well...

To quote Andor, "We let it grow, and now it's here. It's here, and it's not visiting anymore. It wants to stay."

Too soon mate, too soon. :'(


'There will be times when the struggle seems impossible. I know this already. Alone, unsure, dwarfed by the scale of the enemy. Remember this. Freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. Random acts of insurrection are occurring constantly throughout the galaxy. Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward. And then remember this. The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear. Remember that. And know this, the day will come when all these skirmishes and battles, these moments of defiance will have flooded the banks of the Empire's authority and then there will be one too many. One single thing will break the siege. Remember this. Try.'

[killer-heels]

Its hilarious how these authoritarian regimes are so insecure that they cant even allow a rainbow armband to appear in pictures. Russia, China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, what a load of scumbags. Them backward nations would do a us all a favour if they could be made to fuck off.

[classycarra]

Its hilarious how these authoritarian regimes are so insecure that they cant even allow a rainbow armband to appear in pictures. Russia, China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, what a load of scumbags. Them backward nations would do a us all a favour if they could be made to fuck off.

They are. But if you clock the twitter threads of gerrard and hendo's shitbag new team you'll see that its a deliberate effort to antagonise (they could have picked any thousands of pictures of hendo with a normal armband - but opted not to)

wonder if the daft c*nt realises that's why they're spending so much money on him - to deliberately score homophobic points

loads of their troglodyte fans, particularly those paying to promote their tweets, absolutely reveling in it

[Black Bull Nova]

I think a great big 'fuck of Ettifaq, you're nothing to do with us' banner for every home game should get on camera and restore some balance

[Brian Blessed]

They are. But if you clock the twitter threads of gerrard and hendo's shitbag new team you'll see that its a deliberate effort to antagonise (they could have picked any thousands of pictures of hendo with a normal armband - but opted not to)

wonder if the daft c*nt realises that's why they're spending so much money on him - to deliberately score homophobic points

loads of their troglodyte fans, particularly those paying to promote their tweets, absolutely reveling in it

That’s the thing, isn’t it. If they are challenged and actually respond, they’ll say it was an artistic choice that was applied to all the images, and act like butter wouldn’t melt in their mouths. Anyone with half a brain knows the truth. 100% antagonism, as you rightly say.

[HomesickRed]

They are. But if you clock the twitter threads of gerrard and hendo's shitbag new team you'll see that its a deliberate effort to antagonise (they could have picked any thousands of pictures of hendo with a normal armband - but opted not to)

wonder if the daft c*nt realises that's why they're spending so much money on him - to deliberately score homophobic points

loads of their troglodyte fans, particularly those paying to promote their tweets, absolutely reveling in it

If that stream is for real, then yeah, that is effectively sticking two fingers up at the naysayers, and bragging that you have bought Henderson's silence, sportswashed his colours to state-sponsored monochrome.

[Black Bull Nova]

They've paid c£82m to undermine the LGBQ agenda plus get a competent but elderly player who will in no way light up Arabian football. The rest appears to be to associate with us. So, the things we can do something about is get even more positive publicity for the LGBQ agenda and loudly disassociate with them. That will cost far less than £82m and we have far greater sway with our image and audience.

[classycarra]

If that stream is for real, then yeah, that is effectively sticking two fingers up at the naysayers, and bragging that you have bought Henderson's silence, sportswashed his colours to state-sponsored monochrome.

it's real. hendo one day into his new contract already being used as homophobic ammunition. glad he's finally fucked off and we don't need to hear anymore from the club side

(obviously those troglodytes intend to try to drag LFC into everything they do, thanks to the useful idiots who used to captain us, but they'll soon have less oxygen of publicity for their team's online supporters to obsess over gay sex every time there's an ettifak tweet)

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

Oddest thing over the weekend was seeing a elderly man wearing a Al Nassar top with Ronaldo on the back. Literally first person I've seen in UK wearing one.

Was probably Ronaldo himself. Hes nearly 40!!

Apparently when he was at UTD and Madrid he always turned up to mufti day wearing his full kit.

He even bought Rhatt Butlers house and replaced the 10 foot Scarlett O'Hara portrait above the fireplace with one of himself bare arsed

[oojason]

'An open letter to Jordan Henderson: you have left us feeling hurt and betrayed':-

Paul Amann, the founder of Liverpool's official LGBT+ Fans Group Kop Outs, has sent an open letter to Jordan Henderson

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/open-letter-jordan-henderson-you-27409923





The letter...


"An open letter to Jordan Henderson,

We have previously thanked you for your solidarity with LGBT+ people. We’ve massively appreciated your choice to include us in programmes, and to condemn LGBT+ phobia. We have cheered you on as a Liverpool player and valued you as a captain that has brought every cup home for us.

Your values seemed the perfect fit for our city and for our club. You spoke in an authentic way about equality, about dignity and human decency. You spent 12 years with us, delivering performances on and off the pitch that saw you lauded. You were nominated as a British LGBT Ally of the year, based on the allyship you proclaimed.

You had the opportunity to leave Liverpool with a proper Anfield send off. Your very well paid contract had another 2 years to run. Players of your age and ability are still sought after by clubs across the world not located in oppressive regimes. You had the chance to demonstrate to your family, teammates, fans and the footballing world that footballers can be principled and stand by their convictions.

Your choice to take up a contract with Saudi Arabian based Al-Ettifaq flies in the face of the values you have previously publicly championed. In Saudi Arabia, Amnesty International has found the following (www.amnesty.org.uk/saudi-arabia-human-rights-raif-badawi-king-salman):

Torture used as a punishment

Executions on the rise

No free speech

No protests

Women are widely discriminated against

Torture in police custody is common

You can be arrested and detained for no good reason

Religious discrimination is rife

Migrant works have been deported en masse

Human rights organisations are banned

Additionally, homosexuality can result in the death penalty. This is a far cry from the values you have previously publicly championed.

For raising these concerns about your decision to go, Kop Outs has seen many decent people amplify our messages. Sadly, this has also seen some vile messages posted to us, by so called fans supportive of your decision to go to Saud Arabia.

Your choice to side with our oppressors has seen most of members absolutely shocked and angry. Many find this choice unforgiveable.

You will always be a legend, a captain who brought home everything. However, as a man, your failure to keep to the principles you championed leaves you much diminished.

You’re not the first to go, and may not be the last. It is deeply concerning that Gerrard has gone, especially given he had a former teammate Robbie Rogers who was an out gay man, such a betrayal of trust to a former teammate. Robbie Fowler’s choice to manage in Saudi Arabia is also deeply disappointing. There were other options for all concerned to ply their trade in places not mired in human rights breaches. Options to play and manage in places with perhaps more sustainable football leagues. Fulham’s Marco Silva has twice turned down offers to play, and has stuck by his principles.

At Kop Outs we are concerned that the movement of players and managers to Saudi Arabia will have a chilling effect on the likelihood of players to show their future support for LGBT+ rights. They may worry that their words may come back to haunt them if they also seek to go to a place like Saudi Arabia.

Actions speak louder than words. Your choice has left many Kop Outs members feeling hurt and betrayed, as your actions have left your words questioned. If you want to be an ally, be active, and be consistent."

[Illmatic]

Jordan Henderson gave 12 fantastic years to our club and was a fantastic captain this must never be forgotten.

[Yorkykopite]

Jordan Henderson gave 12 fantastic years to our club and was a fantastic captain this must never be forgotten.

Who you talking about?

[DangerScouse]

Jordan Henderson gave 12 fantastic years to our club and was a fantastic captain this must never be forgotten.

He certainly won't be forgotten but lasting memory for many will be for negative reasons.

[rushyman]

It's not sportswashing anymore

It just serves to expose who we are hero worshipping and what football has become.

[Black Bull Nova]

Jordan Henderson gave 12 fantastic years to our club and was a fantastic captain this must never be forgotten.

I do not think his footballing and leadership contribution are in any doubt, trouble is he strove to be more than that and let down a portion of our fanbase in doing so.
It's quite a set of mixed emotions involved in him leaving. That moment when he hugged his dad will always stay as a great moment in this clubs history and he really was underrated in terms of what he gave us which was immense. The trouble is no-one will ever trust a footballer again when they support a cause because everyone knows they can be paid to go back on that cause if the money is good enough.
I genuinely think, in 20 years time, when he has amassed £100m from football and is still struggling to spend it, he will look back and regret the loss of his credibility which has no price really.

[Black Bull Nova]

It's not sportswashing anymore

It just serves to expose who we are hero worshipping and what football has become.

Choose your heroes carefully and, very carefully if they are footballers

[GreatEx]

SOS has added the rainbow to their FB profile pic and c*nts are moaning, the c*nts I looked at weren't from Liverpool - wish they'd fuck off and latch onto some other club, they know fuck all about the City and our fanbase and our politics/beliefs

It's weird, if I was a right wing nationalist fuckhole who had chosen Liverpool FC for purely sporting reasons, I surely would have hacked them off by now because I'd find the supporter base insufferable. Back in the 80s it'd be more understandable because you could watch some soccer on the telly and read the scores in the paper and be none the wiser, but in the internet age it's impossible not to know you're associating with filthy socialists.

[rushyman]

Choose your heroes carefully and, very carefully if they are footballers

None honestly.

We are all in very serious denial about football at this point

As loyal as their options. Everything they say and do is PR

Maybe that's why so many thought it was brilliant Grealish was falling around Europe pissed up for a month. 'Oh look he's one of us aswell'

He isn't

[ToneLa]

I've been thinking (uh oh) about the sportswashing and dirty money and I can boil my opposition down to a cliche point

Does the end justify the means?

A friend at work suggested I could do good with dirty money. But my reply is what would it be for? Why should it fall to such a wild possibility to get new children's homes, new charities, new venues or whatever I'd do with the 'millions' figure he posited... I am not religious but the devil would tempt you with the same offer

'the end justifies the means' is the ultimate end point of utilitarianism

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_end_justifies_the_means

The idea is ancient, but it was not meant to justify unnecessary cruelty. It was part of a political philosophy called consequentialism. The basic idea is that a policy can be judged by its outcome. All modern versions of consequentialism have to deal with the limitations necessary to prevent tyrants abusing this idea.

There we have it. I presume those who don't see it will then move the goalposts to 'but are Saudi tyrants' and the like

But that's it for me - neatly laid out, making philosophical sense

The destination doesn't negate the travel there.

Indeed, I find it ridiculous to see celebrities and the wealthy defended by saying us, the non rich, hidden public, would take the same offer.

That itself is a false argument. My music is not for sale, my profession is with a huge Japanese company. It would take considerable... Weird... Changes to a lot of things to end in me, personally, getting a loaded money offer from Saudi Arabia. That would be no little change.

I am not grandstanding, nor saying I am the one sane man, I say this here as I think of you all as friends and this thread is very heartening, I just don't entertain the idea seriously. It's ridiculous. There will be no Saudi payday for me. It is not something I would seek. Ridiculous question

You have to do the means right. The means are what gets you to the end.

God help the world if it comes to a blood money offer to me to fix things. It would look the same as it does now. And not to make everything about the government but... 'look at the good you could do'

I guess there's a mild compliment in there but I don't even want that

It's miserable this. The whole sorry thing. It's strangling football.

Consequences exist and thus there must be limitations. It isn't a free for all. We are not all for sale. People have already gotten hurt along the way, which is why I find the pro-sportswashing point so bizarre and disconnected.

[A Red Abroad]

Video on KSA... interesting... if you can get past the slightly irritating voiceover.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/txmzVsBniZQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/txmzVsBniZQ</a>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txmzVsBniZQ

[classycarra]

Klopp: "Was I surprised when Henderson said he wanted to move on? Of course. We had a relationship for eight years. He knew the situation that we wanted to keep him but if he wanted to leave we weren't going to throw rocks and stones in the way. It was about reacting to it"


Interesting choice of words (it's not deliberate, Klopp has previously used this and the 'sticks and stones' expression)

[oojason]

'Premier League and Fifa helpless against Saudi juggernaut’s relentless progress' - by Jonathan Wilson:-

Saudi Pro League’s moves for ageing stars echo other leagues – but there is no reason why stars at their peak should not follow

www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2023/jul/29/premier-league-fifa-helpless-against-saudi-pro-league-juggernaut





a snippet...


'Football is far from perfect but it is a thing we love. It has existed in its present form for more than a century and a half. It has its rituals and its routines. It has taken on a cultural significance way beyond what is reasonable. It is a way for parents to commune with children, for exiles to maintain their links to home, a source of pride and identity for areas otherwise left behind. It lubricates the cogs of social interaction. It is everywhere: on televisions, on radios, on phones, in background conversations in offices and pubs and schools.

And it is under threat – at least in the form in which we recognise it.

It’s not just the Saudis. It’s not just nation states or their public investment funds. It’s also private equity, any of the investors whose business at the club is not the protection of a vital community asset.

But it’s worse when it’s a state that murdered Jamal Khashoggi, that jailed and allegedly tortured Loujain al-Hathloul, that in 2022 carried out 81 executions in 24 hours for crimes including “deviant beliefs”. And it’s worse when it’s the Saudis because they have so much more money than anybody else. Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund may have invested at least $6bn in sport since the beginning of 2021 but, in the last week of June, the Saudi government signed contracts worth $18bn.

All of this is only part of Vision 2030, a $7trillion project to diversify the economy that includes vast infrastructure projects such as The Line, part of the planned Neom area in the desert, as well as investment in a range of sports including golf, Formula One, boxing, tennis, cricket and esports.'

[Speedy Molby]

Another snippet

'Yet, really, what can [PL chief executve Richard] Masters do? What can any of football’s authorities do? One of the emails leaked by Der Spiegel in 2018 suggested the Manchester City chairman Khaldoon al-Mubarak had said that “he would rather spend 30 million on the 50 best lawyers in the world to sue them for the next 10 years” than accept a deal on FFP breaches. How can any football authority risk that?

This is why state-run clubs are so insidious: they are essentially ungovernable. Or at least they are without state support of their own – but Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s UK government lobbied the Premier League to approve the Saudi takeover of Newcastle. There is a sense of hopelessness: football is helpless in the face of an external force whose resources are beyond comprehension.'

[A Red Abroad]

Another snippet

'Yet, really, what can [PL chief executve Richard] Masters do? What can any of football’s authorities do? One of the emails leaked by Der Spiegel in 2018 suggested the Manchester City chairman Khaldoon al-Mubarak had said that “he would rather spend 30 million on the 50 best lawyers in the world to sue them for the next 10 years” than accept a deal on FFP breaches. How can any football authority risk that?

This is why state-run clubs are so insidious: they are essentially ungovernable. Or at least they are without state support of their own – but Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s UK government lobbied the Premier League to approve the Saudi takeover of Newcastle. There is a sense of hopelessness: football is helpless in the face of an external force whose resources are beyond comprehension.'

This ^

Sadly, I think once Jürgen goes, I'll find something else to follow.

[JRed]

This ^

Sadly, I think once Jürgen goes, I'll find something else to follow.

A lot of people are feeling this way. The day Abu Dhabi were allowed to own a football club is the day the game started decaying. Saudi are going to accelerate that until there is no competitive game left.

[SamLad]

There is a sense of hopelessness: football is helpless in the face of an external force whose resources are beyond comprehension.'

yep - the recent transfers of top-name players are the first salvos in a war that the game (as it should exist) simply cannot win.

[TSC]

A lot of people are feeling this way. The day Abu Dhabi were allowed to own a football club is the day the game started decaying. Saudi are going to accelerate that until there is no competitive game left.

Decay started with Roman’s arrival - Putin’s laundrette.  It’s just got worse with oil rich nation states buying clubs directly

[DangerScouse]

Richard Masters, the Premier League’s chief executive, insisted on Monday that he “wouldn’t be too concerned” by the growing Saudi influence over football, which makes you wonder just what would concern him.

 

[DangerScouse]

Decay started with Roman’s arrival - Putin’s laundrette.  It’s just got worse with oil rich nation states buying clubs directly

Yep, the c*nts arrival was the death knell but arguably Sky's involvement to be honest.

[GreatEx]

This ^

Sadly, I think once Jürgen goes, I'll find something else to follow.

I think I'm veering that way already. On Friday my Aussie Rules team had one of its best performances in the past few years and I felt a depth of emotional resonance that football hasn't given me since maybe even Madrid. It's partly a timezone thing but also because the local game feels relatively untainted (despite being a corporate megalith in its own right with plenty of ongoing issues, just nothing on the scale of the world game). That also applies to The Ashes, even though I don't really have the time to follow cricket nowadays. I'm starting to question whether football is more of an addiction than a love at this point.

[Jwils21]

As far as footy goes, what will be your final straw before you genuinely pack it in?

I've seen many reds, particularly older ones, saying they'll hang around until Klopp goes.

I’m 29 and pretty much done. I only watch Liverpool games now, and even then I just don’t feel the same about it. I know that every touch of a ball becomes part of a deafening and never ending wider conversation about “talking points” and meaningless debates on the internet. It might just be nostalgia talking but I think the Premier League stopped being pure entertainment a long way back - there’s too much money to be made, too many clicks and retweets to be harvested and too many talentless dickheads to make mildly famous on Tik Tok/Twitter/whatever this months flavour is.

[Jwils21]

“Old school” fans won’t be missed. They’ll be replaced by the online fans and merchandise consumers.

[Libertine]

I think I'm veering that way already. On Friday my Aussie Rules team had one of its best performances in the past few years and I felt a depth of emotional resonance that football hasn't given me since maybe even Madrid. It's partly a timezone thing but also because the local game feels relatively untainted (despite being a corporate megalith in its own right with plenty of ongoing issues, just nothing on the scale of the world game). That also applies to The Ashes, even though I don't really have the time to follow cricket nowadays. I'm starting to question whether football is more of an addiction than a love at this point.

Felt very similar with the rugby at the end of last season (again, helped by the fact that my teams are doing well of course). Down to earth players, success determined by hard work and skill rather than financial doping. Probably looking forward to the world cup much more than the new footie season (and having watched not a second of that farce of a world cup last year).

[Yorkykopite]

The problem is that the actual football is breathtaking.

[SamLad]

“Old school” fans won’t be missed. They’ll be replaced by the online fans and merchandise consumers.

until they spot something else that gets their attention and they won't be seen again.