Author Topic: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained  (Read 22008 times)

Offline jbdbreds

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,065
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #120 on: July 12, 2005, 08:03:24 pm »
Fantatic post from Paul, and some reasonable arguments made by Laz-e-boy.  Perhaps Laz-e-boy will have his best years here and become a superstar, as Paul has.  Always nice to have a healthy balance of youthful energy and experience/proven quality.  Either way, I think it's safe to say that neither of them would have any troubles getting onto a Chelsea or Arsenal board.

Offline Laz-e-Boy

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #121 on: July 12, 2005, 08:04:49 pm »
stevie magic, its actually quite possible, and i had given this no thought whatsoever. all i can say to that is that i think we would not have seen this free side of zidane in seria a, even if he had won two european cups with juventus. it could have, in fact, lead them to be even more defensive, as success is a vindication of their style of football, and strengthens managers hands when dealing with players, the board etc.

Offline Gnurglan

  • The Swedish Savaloy
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,557
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #122 on: July 12, 2005, 08:07:08 pm »
"He's Just A One Season Wonder"

"He's Too Old/Past His Best"

"He's Too Expensive"

"Only A Reserve At Another Club"

"Never Played For A Big Club"

"We Must Sign World-Class Players"

"No Premiership Experience/Might Not Settle"

"He Wouldn't Get Into the Chelsea or Arsenal Side"



One season wonder? It's hard to say if a player is a one season wonder or not. But naturally, if a player has showed consistency over a few seasons, that's an advantage. More of "what you see is what you get" than a gamble.

Too old? Wonder what Roger Milla and Gary Mac have to say about that. But it's a point to consider. Is experience what we need? And what younger player could we get instead?

Too expensive? Disagree with Paul's view on the budget. It does matter who we spend the cash on, even if we stay within the budget. Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou? Just because we have the cash doesn't mean we can afford to make expensive mistakes. I struggle to make up my mind about the signing of Crouch. He'd give us an option, but he'd cost as much as Owen and more than we paid for Morientes. Don't think we can afford to fail and I'd consider it a gamble. If we fail with Morientes, we can get a decent fee back. If we fail with Crouch, well, let's just say we won't make a fortune when we sell.

Only a Reserve? Means little to me. Sure it matters if it's Figo or Nunez we're after, but if the player provides an option we need but don't have, then his impact can be huge.

Never played for a big club? If we get a player from Barca, he's used to the pressure. We'd know he can cope with that and most likely he possesses some skill. So it's valid, but if we have a really hot prospect or a player who has shown he can do it for a few seasons, then we could have ourselves a rough diamond at a bargain price.

World class players? I reckon it's more valid this season than in a long, long time. Because this year we have a unique ability to attract the best. We are the Champions of Europe. Normally I don't call for big players, but now I want us to build on the success. We can sign good squad players every year. Let's try to buy an Aimar, Ronaldo, SWP etc. Although difficult, it will never be as easy as this summer.

No PL experience? I'm not worried. It's great if he has it, but it matters more if he's got experience of a high pressure environment.

Not in Arsenal/Chelsea squad? I divide this argument in two different groups. First if the player fits in or not. Second it's about quality. It's quite possible, because of the way a team wants to play, that they don't look to sign a certain type of player. But there's still a difference in class between say FSP and Cisse. While DC could offer genuine competition at Arsenal/Chelsea/Mancs/..., it's questionable if either of those teams would look to buy FSP to strengthen the side. And if all those teams have a "Cisse", we're not likely to get away with a "FSP" if we want to keep up.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline theredtribe

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #123 on: July 12, 2005, 08:08:15 pm »
EXCELLENT post...you basically voiced what I was thinking.

Even though I dont quite agree with the logic.  Getting a bargain deal at shop A doesnt mean we should splash out cash at shop B. 

We should pay for a player his worth and to quote yourself "If that amount is good enough for Rafa, it's good enough for me"
Seriously though, if Rafa can spend a total of £7m on Figo, Zenden and Crouch, at an average of less than £3m each, then it doesn't matter which one cost £7m and which two were free?

Offline Paul Tomkins

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,475
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #124 on: July 12, 2005, 08:14:27 pm »
Even though I dont quite agree with the logic.  Getting a bargain deal at shop A doesnt mean we should splash out cash at shop B. 


No, but if Shop B is the only place you can get what you *specifically* need, then you may have to pay over the going rate. That's my logic.

For example, if Rafa wants Crouch, and Crouch is the key ingredient to his "dish", then if he wants to make the dish properly he needs Crouch. (Unless he can find a suitable alternative).

If the dish will be an award-winning, world-renownded dish (i.e. good enough to win the Premiership), then if he has to pay £7m instead of £5m, I don't see the problem. Sure, if he is quoted £37m, fair enough.

But £7m, even for Crouch, is not out of Liverpool's budget.

I guess my main logic is that if Rafa thinks Crouch is worth £7m or £8m, then he, as protector of the budget, is the only one who counts; and that I don't see the "he's only worth £2m" argument as especially valid.

But it's only my opinion :P


Offline hooded claw

  • Foiled by the Anthill Mob
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,413
    • The Plate Licked Clean
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #125 on: July 12, 2005, 08:19:01 pm »
One season wonder? It's hard to say if a player is a one season wonder or not. But naturally, if a player has showed consistency over a few seasons, that's an advantage. More of "what you see is what you get" than a gamble.

Too old? Wonder what Roger Milla and Gary Mac have to say about that. But it's a point to consider. Is experience what we need? And what younger player could we get instead?

Too expensive? Disagree with Paul's view on the budget. It does matter who we spend the cash on, even if we stay within the budget. Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou? Just because we have the cash doesn't mean we can afford to make expensive mistakes. I struggle to make up my mind about the signing of Crouch. He'd give us an option, but he'd cost as much as Owen and more than we paid for Morientes. Don't think we can afford to fail and I'd consider it a gamble. If we fail with Morientes, we can get a decent fee back. If we fail with Crouch, well, let's just say we won't make a fortune when we sell.

Only a Reserve? Means little to me. Sure it matters if it's Figo or Nunez we're after, but if the player provides an option we need but don't have, then his impact can be huge.

Never played for a big club? If we get a player from Barca, he's used to the pressure. We'd know he can cope with that and most likely he possesses some skill. So it's valid, but if we have a really hot prospect or a player who has shown he can do it for a few seasons, then we could have ourselves a rough diamond at a bargain price.

World class players? I reckon it's more valid this season than in a long, long time. Because this year we have a unique ability to attract the best. We are the Champions of Europe. Normally I don't call for big players, but now I want us to build on the success. We can sign good squad players every year. Let's try to buy an Aimar, Ronaldo, SWP etc. Although difficult, it will never be as easy as this summer.

No PL experience? I'm not worried. It's great if he has it, but it matters more if he's got experience of a high pressure environment.

Not in Arsenal/Chelsea squad? I divide this argument in two different groups. First if the player fits in or not. Second it's about quality. It's quite possible, because of the way a team wants to play, that they don't look to sign a certain type of player. But there's still a difference in class between say FSP and Cisse. While DC could offer genuine competition at Arsenal/Chelsea/Mancs/..., it's questionable if either of those teams would look to buy FSP to strengthen the side. And if all those teams have a "Cisse", we're not likely to get away with a "FSP" if we want to keep up.

Good points. Problem is, you are never guaranteed anything in a transfer, so even if the points you mention are set fair (used to pressure, proven international class, would be bought by other quality teams etc) you can still end up with a Juan Sebastian Veron.

Offline StevieMagic

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #126 on: July 12, 2005, 08:24:09 pm »
Zidane is another topic for another board I feel but to be honest I think he sold his soul a little when he joined Real to get the medal he wanted. But thats his choice but I love to have seen him play with us of course.  We nearly did in the form of Cheyrou:)

Try this logic - I got two great jerseys for half nought and I have most of my money in my pocket. Next shop I go into I see the owner quickly crossing off 4 quid on a jersey I want and he puts 7 nope make that 8 on it instead. Nice jersey but 8 quid? Nah mate I just got two other great jerseys for half nought so I think I will head back that direction and see what they got for me as I dont like the way you do business. Plus the way I am shopping at the moment I might get all the jerseys I want and still have my money in the wallet. Drinks at the end of the season may be on me if you are all lucky.

Offline Gnurglan

  • The Swedish Savaloy
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,557
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #127 on: July 12, 2005, 08:40:21 pm »
Good points. Problem is, you are never guaranteed anything in a transfer, so even if the points you mention are set fair (used to pressure, proven international class, would be bought by other quality teams etc) you can still end up with a Juan Sebastian Veron.

Yeah, I know. Nothing is for certain. But if you've done your scouting, you're after a top class player who has delivered for a few seasons and it goes wrong, then it hurts but you played it right. The decision was made on good grounds. You lose some, but in the long run you'll get it right most of the times.

We could compare Veron's fee to Diouf+Diao+Cheyrou+Heskey. I believe we made the more costly mistake, although each player didn't cost as much as JSV. Because our mistake(s) had side effects. We got a larger squad and therefore we became less flexible when we wanted to sell.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline The 5th Benitle

  • Mitch Fenner and Gerry Francis' biggest fan. Karaoke James - The Sausagefest Superhero. A soldier not a Capo di tutti capi. Clapham Stalker. RAWK X Factor Winner 2011. The poor man's Sarge!
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 45,307
  • Read, then post...
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #128 on: July 12, 2005, 09:01:40 pm »

your point c still bears no resemblence to a logical argument and is as much nonsensical as it was in your original post. one players cost has no bearing on how much a completely different player should have cost the club, and if you are advocating wasting money simply because the club has already made savings in other areas then your more a fool than i thought you to be.


Just go away for Gods sake. Why should Paul spend time writing inspired, witty and ingenious pieces like this one if this is the kind of personal attack he has to put up with?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2005, 09:05:36 pm by JamesRed »

Offline montse

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,033
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #129 on: July 12, 2005, 09:02:08 pm »
I guess my main logic is that if Rafa thinks Crouch is worth £7m or £8m, then he, as protector of the budget, is the only one who counts; and that I don't see the "he's only worth £2m" argument as especially valid.

But it's only my opinion :P

I think if you just said the above in your initial post then we, well i certainly, wouldn't have brought up the query about your "financial logic".  Anyway, i am probably being pedantic, but my dick is tucked away out of sight (beneath me foot ;D ).
Liverpool, European City of Football, 2005.

Offline hooded claw

  • Foiled by the Anthill Mob
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,413
    • The Plate Licked Clean
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #130 on: July 12, 2005, 09:05:58 pm »
your point c still bears no resemblence to a logical argument and is as much nonsensical as it was in your original post. one players cost has no bearing on how much a completely different player should have cost the club, and if you are advocating wasting money simply because the club has already made savings in other areas then your more a fool than i thought you to be.

-'I'm looking at the bigger picture: '

whatever, mate, that is the saddest attempt to put your point accross i ever heard, just make your point, telling us how great you are isnt going to get your point across.

Please, mate, if your gonna call a topic 'liverpools transfer activity explained' it might help if you knew anything about players who, er, dont actually play  for liverpool. if you only know about liverpool players, and fuck all about non liverpool players, how are you supposed to explain tranfser activity?

Shame you can't stick to debating an issue without getting personal.

Oh, and good luck with the book by the way Laz-e-boy- put me down for a copy.

Offline The 5th Benitle

  • Mitch Fenner and Gerry Francis' biggest fan. Karaoke James - The Sausagefest Superhero. A soldier not a Capo di tutti capi. Clapham Stalker. RAWK X Factor Winner 2011. The poor man's Sarge!
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 45,307
  • Read, then post...
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #131 on: July 12, 2005, 09:06:16 pm »
I think if you just said the above in your initial post then we, well i certainly, wouldn't have brought up the query about your "financial logic".  Anyway, i am probably being pedantic, but my dick is tucked away out of sight (beneath me foot ;D ).

Montse has a dick? Now thats news

Offline Laz-e-Boy

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #132 on: July 12, 2005, 09:09:26 pm »
i apologise for that remark, it was very disrespectful and i regret it, but it was in the heat of a moment and i was typing my thoughts very fast. if you read what was said, though you will see that it was a) a responce to my post being wrongly slated b) a responce to a point which was in my opinion, preposterous. That savings from one set of transfer dealings could be justifiably wasted on another, for no apparent reason or logic. anyway i think the matter is over.

Offline nickelodeon

  • Kemlynite
  • **
  • Posts: 28
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #133 on: July 12, 2005, 09:29:45 pm »
At the end of the day, I think everyone agrees to the fact Rafa is trying to bring Crouch for all the different options he provides.

For all the talks about Crouch not being good enough or being too expensive, the only names that came out as realistic alternatives to him were Koller and Carew. Carew obviously didn't interest Rafa as he had to be aware a move for him was possible. As for Koller, I think no one would argue that beside the fact that he is giant, he doesn't have much in comon with Crouch. But again, this could be the source to another debate.

IMO, Paul point is totally valid. If you need one particular element and can't find it anywhere else then you have to accept paying a price above your own estimation if you are to get it. There's no way around it.

Offline StevieMagic

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #134 on: July 12, 2005, 09:43:33 pm »
I rarely see our club been backed into a corner and when it comes to Crouch I see that happening. I did not reliaze he was our only striker option when it comes to big men. Yes there is not too many 6ft 7 guys out there but there is plenty of strikers who are pretty adapt in the air and also do a decent job on the ground. And if you were looking for that super sub figure then I hope we dont need to rely on him that much to pull us out of the fire and when we do then throw Hypia up front as he can bang them in as good as the best of them plus his fee is pretty reasonable.

Offline Alf

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,644
  • Leader of Alf Quaida & the Scaliban
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #135 on: July 12, 2005, 09:44:56 pm »
Hit the nail on the head as usual Paul. Interesting article.

Offline Trell

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 651
  • "Winning trophies has made me put on weight."
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #136 on: July 13, 2005, 01:29:44 am »


Is it just me or has this thread turned from a light hearted satire at the way we, as fans, view incoming transfers, to  a pissing contest?

Fine, you don't agree with a post or some of the assertions made in it. Not a problem as i would imagine the redoubtable Paul T can take a little constructive criticism.

Acting as if you have exposed the original thread maker, commiting perjury in a crown court case, seems a little over the top.

It is even more ridiculous when most of the arguements seem to be so unimportant to the spirit of the piece.

Sometimes i wonder if some people have a sense of humour at all.
Famous words of wisdom:

If you're in the penalty area and aren't quite sure what to do with the ball, stick it in the net and we'll discuss your options afterwards!

I always said we had the best two teams on Merseyside... Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves.

Offline Steven Gerrard

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,598
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #137 on: July 13, 2005, 04:13:35 am »
really enjoyable read :thumbup :wellin
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time

Offline davidlam

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
  • This Is God and Rafa
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #138 on: July 13, 2005, 04:50:18 am »
I think the 7M for 3 players argument is really good (although now it seems more likely to be 2...)  Well writen, Paul!

Offline Rushian

  • Blanco y en botella
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,184
  • ¡No Pasarán!
    • Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #139 on: July 13, 2005, 05:40:09 am »
its not i dont like your stuff, my original post was a comment on how funny it was written, i just wanted to bring to your attention one or two mistakes that you made in it. You were the one tha then started slagging me and saying i got my facts wrong. i am glad to see that you have accepted your mistakes and hope you endevour to do a little thing in the future called 'research' before you call a post of mine a 'lazy post'. You may attempt to excuse your laziness, but there is no excuse for hypocricy

out of interest wasn't it you who claimed Kevin Phillips had two 30 goal seasons since joining the Premier League? Care to provide us with a source for the data on this (and your memory or knowledge of La Liga B doesn't count).

Zidane - Juventus and Real Madrid quote it as a £46 million transfer.
If you're going to sign up on Betfair and fancy getting a free £25 on sign-up then use my refer code 749DCNQGK and I'll also get a £25 bonus ;)

Offline fu onn

  • Boys Pen
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #140 on: July 13, 2005, 07:01:58 am »
Superb article as usual and a very nice conclusion. Well said

Offline LFC-Enforcer

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 492
  • Viva la revolucion!
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #141 on: July 13, 2005, 07:15:44 am »
I'm with Cookie. However much I enjoyed the article (and well done on the cracking denouement- a Manc buddy of mine even enjoyed it), the thrust seems to be that there's no point in speculating and arguing over potential signings...

No, that wasn;t the thrust, the thrust was that if you're going to speculate then please provide reasonable argumentative analysis, not just the ususal throw-away thoughtless rubbish that gets spat out of these forum boards ad infinitum.
The blood is its most red nearest to the heart.

Offline Paul Tomkins

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,475
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #142 on: July 13, 2005, 07:59:30 am »

Is it just me or has this thread turned from a light hearted satire at the way we, as fans, view incoming transfers, to  a pissing contest?

Fine, you don't agree with a post or some of the assertions made in it. Not a problem as i would imagine the redoubtable Paul T can take a little constructive criticism.

Acting as if you have exposed the original thread maker, commiting perjury in a crown court case, seems a little over the top.

It is even more ridiculous when most of the arguements seem to be so unimportant to the spirit of the piece.

Sometimes i wonder if some people have a sense of humour at all.



Thanks, Trell, for expressing how I feel about this. There's not much I can add to that, except to say that since publishing the book I have a few more people thinking I'm there to be shot at. Maybe I am, if that's how people see it, but there's a way to go about it that will engage me in healthy debate, and there's a way that will just piss me off.

There is nothing stopping people writing their own original pieces and their own book, if they really want to get one over on me, to prove they are better, or more clever than me, if that's the aim. Do that, and make them better, and fair enough; but pedantically nit-picking a lighthearted internet article, and doing so incorrectly while simultaneously missing the point and the spirit, is just a waste of everyone's time.



No, that wasn;t the thrust, the thrust was that if you're going to speculate then please provide reasonable argumentative analysis, not just the ususal throw-away thoughtless rubbish that gets spat out of these forum boards ad infinitum.


That was the idea. It has been taken too seriously by some, but I imagine that many of those are the ones guilty of trotting out the "He's crap. Ed of..." type lines.



out of interest wasn't it you who claimed Kevin Phillips had two 30 goal seasons since joining the Premier League? Care to provide us with a source for the data on this (and your memory or knowledge of La Liga B doesn't count).

Zidane - Juventus and Real Madrid quote it as a £46 million transfer.


Rushian - what do you know about football?  ;)  :wave

From memory, Phillips had one 30 goal season in the top flight, the rest, as you suggest Steve, were in the lower division.

But Phillips has a fairly decent record overall in the Premiership, hence why I questioned why people use him as an example of a one season wonder. To then be criticised for including him, when I was quoting others (the people who list these one season wonders - and I've done it too, just not including Phillips!), just made the whole debate rather surreal.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2005, 08:03:14 am by Paul Tomkins »

Offline Reddy12

  • Kemlynite
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • To the Victor Go the Spoils
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #143 on: July 13, 2005, 08:49:34 am »
fecking brilliant... but i am curious what would happen if kewell played brilliantly this season? it seems that this board has more flip flops then any aussie surfer.. example.. gerrard is leaving= GOOD Riddance! too expensive! team is bigger than one player! We can use the money! Give us Ballack! etc.. Gerrard is staying= Oh he was just a confused lad. Rafa and him dont get along. etc..

Offline Paul Tomkins

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,475
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #144 on: July 13, 2005, 08:54:34 am »
fecking brilliant... but i am curious what would happen if kewell played brilliantly this season? 


I'm a big Kewell fan - or rather, a fan of what he *can* do more than what he has.

My point was not to slate Harry, just to point out that it hasn't worked yet. I still have faith, but he has to prove it this season...

Offline yammy

  • Boys Pen
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #145 on: July 13, 2005, 09:00:30 am »
Thank you Paul, I enjoyed the read. :wave

This £46m Zidane transfer has got my goat and I had to register just to reply to that.

It's not particularly important to the essence of the piece as has already been mentioned. What a player is *worth* is not the same as what he *costs*. The true value of a player can not really be determined due to so many factors. What I will comment on is Laz-e-Boy's figure for Zidane.

When a figure is quoted for a player it is normal for people to assume the figure to include all fees payable by the club.

For example, we all say Harry Kewell was a £5m player and signing but Leeds received £2m for him. So Laz-e-Boy's insistance that Paul is wrong rings hollow.

Looking forward to posting more on here and hello everybody. :wave


Offline Paul Tomkins

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,475
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #146 on: July 13, 2005, 09:09:41 am »

When a figure is quoted for a player it is normal for people to assume the figure to include all fees payable by the club.

For example, we all say Harry Kewell was a £5m player and signing but Leeds received £2m for him. So Laz-e-Boy's insistance that Paul is wrong rings hollow.


Welcome Yammy  :wave

Whatever Zidane cost, it was a world record. If £5m was indeed in agents' fees, who paid those fees? Real Madrid, I'm guessing. As you say, all transfers take agents' fees into account within the final total.

Although £5m is a lot of money, in this instance it is splitting hairs. The point I made stands: Real Madrid paid a lot of money for a fabulous player; Juventus paid very little money for a less-proven (at the time) fabulous player.

Offline montse

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,033
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #147 on: July 13, 2005, 09:25:35 am »
I think the only two who have been overly aggressive in this thread are PT and laz-e-boy.  Laz-e-boy did start it with an aggressive and patronising response to the initial thread.

I would say that most of the thread has been of constructive discussion, when compared to the average thread I read on RAWK.  Some people are going to misunderstand, but that is surely inevitable.

Paul, you do get IMO by far the most compliments on your writing and articles, and a few idiots who cannot convey their points, but is it really that bad?
Liverpool, European City of Football, 2005.

Offline Paul Tomkins

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,475
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #148 on: July 13, 2005, 09:46:55 am »
Paul, you do get IMO by far the most compliments on your writing and articles, and a few idiots who cannot convey their points, but is it really that bad?


Again, I get riled when people list the "mistakes" in my articles, as a way of point scoring, and not as part of a constructive debate. Anyone can check back through all my posts to see how I react to constructive criticism, i.e., fine.

It's even more irritating when they are accusing me of making "mistakes", when misunderstanding the original post and when countering with bizarre and incorrect retorts.

There is a 'spirit' to RAWK, and people need to respect that, and respect the established posters who helped build the forum, whether they agree with them or not. To show disrespect on your first day of posting is not going to endear you to me. I put a lot of effort into these pieces, and people read them for free; it's not like my book, which people pay their money for and have a right to expect value for money.

Anyway, can we get back to discussing the original post, and not just the spats?

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,404
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #149 on: July 13, 2005, 10:46:15 am »
No, that wasn;t the thrust, the thrust was that if you're going to speculate then please provide reasonable argumentative analysis, not just the ususal throw-away thoughtless rubbish that gets spat out of these forum boards ad infinitum.

Ok I see that. Where I'm coming from is that not all contributors are exceedingly well informed, like PT and Laz-e-boy (being diplomatic!!). Yet even these two have a ruck about the topic.

Ill informed or not, thoughtless rubbish or not, everyone has a right to their rant. Then someone else comes on and explains to them why they are mistaken, hopefully in a patient and understanding way.

I believe PT's original post was meant in good spirit. It's just that I would be very slow to endorse any view that involves the censoring of other views, no matter how thoughtless.  I don't think that's what he meant, but it's just a little down the road, if you follow.

I've read and enjoyed a lot of PT's stuff and I bought the book, which was class. Laz-e-boy's remarks were far from thoughtless and far from rubbish, but they riled me far more than some sophomoric remark by a newbie about Crouch or some computer game, largely because there was an element of personal attack involved. He may know a little about Serie A or possibly have a lot of time on his hands to google with, but a little class would go a long way. Maybe agent provocateur was just what his guidance counsellor recommended...

Offline blert596

  • or is it Simon Peg, Advert: Buy incontinence bed pads from www.incontinencechoice.co.uk Wash & disposable. Trade & Public.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,102
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #150 on: July 13, 2005, 01:36:54 pm »
Another good piece Paul.

Harry friggin Kewell! Brilliant.
All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.

Offline Laz-e-Boy

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #151 on: July 13, 2005, 03:54:40 pm »
i made a very short critique of one or two facts and have since been crucified. i tried to defend some comments of mine to some of the critisism, and obviously when you do this it begins to sound very nerdy, but all i did was defend a personal attack on my very short critique from that paul guy. i all along said that it was a funny piece of writing, i just disagreed with a couple of little pieces, look at the original post

Offline montse

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,033
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #152 on: July 13, 2005, 04:01:39 pm »
Funny read, just a few mistakes though,
...
i would expect more from someone purporting himself to be a footballing authority of any sort.
Still, funny read though

i think that's what got the fight going, as you made it quite personal.  just my opinion.
Liverpool, European City of Football, 2005.

Offline Garstonite

  • Scouse Wash House
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,352
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #153 on: July 13, 2005, 04:44:45 pm »
Just read this: great, and amusing, post Paul. It's been a few hours mate, where's the next one?

 ;)

Offline Paul Tomkins

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,475
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #154 on: July 13, 2005, 04:54:44 pm »
Just read this: great, and amusing, post Paul. It's been a few hours mate, where's the next one?

 ;)



Give me 37 seconds  ;)

Offline mulfella

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,308
  • Hedgehogs are boss
A place full of grammer Nazi's?
'Grammar' and no apostrophe in 'nazis'.

Offline hooded claw

  • Foiled by the Anthill Mob
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 23,413
    • The Plate Licked Clean
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #156 on: July 15, 2005, 09:50:14 am »

Offline Paul Tomkins

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,475
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #157 on: July 15, 2005, 09:51:12 am »
Nothing like giving the punchline away in the title!

 :D

Offline mightyredbarney

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 559
  • This... is for Matilda.
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #158 on: July 15, 2005, 09:57:25 am »
Nothing like giving the punchline away in the title!

 :D
I thought that - D'Oh! Internet media at it's cretinous best. Glad your piece recognised, Paul, it's inspired me to try and work on a formula to create the perfect footballer.



And now back to the laboratory......
"Many are called but few are chosen."

25/05/05, the greatest night of my life.

Offline montse

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,033
Re: Liverpool's Summer Transfer Activity Explained
« Reply #159 on: July 15, 2005, 10:00:46 am »
Nothing like giving the punchline away in the title!

 :D

that's a shame.  they don't seem to share the same artist flair on f365.
Liverpool, European City of Football, 2005.