Topic: FAC: Arsenal 0 vs 2 Liverpool og 80’ Diaz 90+5’

[12C]

Showing frustration at a decision is allowed.
Telling the referee to 'Fook Off' isn't.
Therein lies the difference I guess, as Shearer pointed out.
Overall, the ref was fine and fair to both teams.

So when Georginho told the ref to fuck off after he was dragging the shirt off our player?

[wheresnemeth]

Don't know why some Arsenal fans think that this was a smash and grab. We were comfortable in the second half and created the better chances. They never looked like they could win the game in the second half.

[wheresnemeth]

Said it a few weeks back Curtis is a far better player than Rice and today proved that beyond a doubt. Rice always looked absolutely gassed by the 75th minute also.

Klopps rotation of players has been excellent this season. Arteta and Howe have played some of their players in every game for 90 minutes when fit. I can see why Rice would be gassed early at this stage of the season. In hindsight it may have been a big mistake to let Xhaka go.

[smutchin]

Others have said it, but a good result. I'm concerned at the constant defensive lapses. Look at the chance at 2:30 or the set up to that Odegaard miss at about 10:30. At some point those mistakes will be a lot more costly. I'd love to see more consistency at the back.

Our defensive lapses are greatly overstated. Look at the evidence of the league table. Our defence is the best there is.

We have a high-risk style of play that can leave us looking open at the back but we can do that because we know we’ve got players like Konate, Gomez and Alisson who have what it takes to get us out of a hole - as they did yesterday on several occasions. They were magnificent. Alisson’s save on the Ben White shot was world class. Quansah, Trent and Bradley were also excellent.

Arsenal are a very good team, they were always going to get chances against us and for all the talk of them being goal shy, they still have 15 more in the league than the Mancs. But I never felt the fear yesterday. Mainly because they were facing the best defence in the country. This can play on an attacker’s mind. It’s small margins - against us a couple of weeks ago they managed to make one of those chances stick and they didn’t really do anything different yesterday, so it could have been different, but one we’d got through that first 15 minutes without conceding, I felt confident how it would end.

Diaz’s goal summed up the difference between the two sides - one touch to control the ball then bang. Havertz would have taken another three touches before even thinking about shooting. That’s a massive confidence issue, but give our players credit for not making it easy for him and forcing him to take those extra touches.

[Kekule]

Was it shearer who said after 10-15 mins arsenal should be 4 or even could have been 5 up.

The silly tit was including three chances in the same move when there was a block, then Odegaard hit the bar, and then another block in the space of about 10 seconds.  He appeared to think they could have gone three nil up in that one attack. The dribbling simpleton didn’t seem to appreciate that if they’d scored with the first chance they wouldn’t have got the other two.

[Buck Pete]

Moment of the match for me was Bobby Clark's yellow card foul. Wise beyond his years. Sometimes you just know that you can't win the ball, but have to make the foul. At the same age, I think Curtis, Harvey, or even Stefan last year, would have tried to win the ball fairly but let the man go if they couldn't win it cleanly.

Said the same thing myself at the game.  Took one for the team did Bobby there and broke up what could have been a hazardous attack.  During Brendan's reign, I sat next to a bloke in KOP who always used to moan that we never did this tactic enough.

When's the draw? ta.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Said the same thing myself at the game.  Took one for the team did Bobby there and broke up what could have been a hazardous attack.  During Brendan's reign, I sat next to a bloke in KOP who always used to moan that we never did this tactic enough.

When's the draw? ta.

Before the Man Utd-Wigan game I think

[smutchin]

The silly tit was including three chances in the same move when there was a block, then Odegaard hit the bar, and then another block in the space of about 10 seconds.  He appeared to think they could have gone three nil up in that one attack. The dribbling simpleton didn’t seem to appreciate that if they’d scored with the first chance they wouldn’t have got the other two.

I was thinking about that while watching the game - do they all get chalked up in the stats as separate goal attempts? If so, it really skews the figures and makes it look like they were doing much better than they actually were.

[Ziltoid]

I think Shearer was still bitter about the drubbing we gave Newcastle on New Years Day - certainly loving the Arse yesterday

[Funky_Gibbons]

I think Shearer was still bitter about the drubbing we gave Newcastle on New Years Day - certainly loving the Arse yesterday

He's been negative towards us for a while now, I remember a few years ago when DCL 'won' a penalty against us by jumping into Lovren and then going to ground, Shearer was in the studio and said something along the lines of "That's what all good strikers do, you can't give someone a reason to go down."

A few weeks later Lallana went down in the penalty area after being pulled back and shearer said "Football is a contact sport, you can touch someone without it being a penalty."

And then he complained about Liverpool fans calling him out over his hypocrisy;

"For all the Liverpool fans currently hurling personal abuse at me, my wife and kids because I happen to disagree with your opinion about the penalty decision, you do know you won don't you? PS So f**k off!"

[slaphead]

I think Shearer was still bitter about the drubbing we gave Newcastle on New Years Day - certainly loving the Arse yesterday

I thought Shearer was alright yesterday myself. In fairness, Arsenal did hammer us first half, but he gave credit to Kloppo for changing things and winning the game

[zero zero]

Gravenberch deserves a mention, got stuck in nicely, great to see.

He does. Took a yellow when Odergard was in dangerous position. A foul but not dirty. Did what he had to do.

A great little pass in the build up for our second

[Red Beret]

Showing frustration at a decision is allowed.
Telling the referee to 'Fook Off' isn't.
Therein lies the difference I guess, as Shearer pointed out.
Overall, the ref was fine and fair to both teams.

But we've seen players tell a ref to fook off and nothing happen to them. Again, it seems to be a rule largely reserved for Liverpool players.

We don't seem to get away with half of what other teams can.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I was thinking about that while watching the game - do they all get chalked up in the stats as separate goal attempts? If so, it really skews the figures and makes it look like they were doing much better than they actually were.

Separate goal attempts yeah, but xg will generally account for the chance of scoring from the attack in general so it would always be lower than 1 (but more than the xg of one of the individual shots).

[Funky_Gibbons]

Showing frustration at a decision is allowed.
Telling the referee to 'Fook Off' isn't.
Therein lies the difference I guess, as Shearer pointed out.
Overall, the ref was fine and fair to both teams.

Fair?

'I did this video to teach you guys about football rules, so you stop complaining. Educate yourselves.':-

https://v.redd.it/j9o8qz54q4bc1 (40 second video)


^ from https://old.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/191aemb/i_did_this_video_to_teach_you_guys_about_football

[Red Beret]

How did Odegaard get through that game without a yellow is beyond me 

Great game from the lads though, hope we repeat that result in a few weeks time!

He doesn't play for Liverpool. He does that in a red shirt and he gets an early shower.

[Walshy nMe®]

We are winning at least 2 trophies this year, this is SOME team!

[AllyouneedisRush]

Just seen Arsenal xG was 1.61..

I'm not having they should have been 3 or 4 up at half time..

[Elzar]

Just seen Arsenal xG was 1.61..

I'm not having they should have been 3 or 4 up at half time..

There was maybe 2 chances Havertz could have done better on, including one where he took too long which probably meant the xG of that chance wasn't very high, and Saka had a chance to pull it back and miskicked it meaning it probably didn't even count. Another reason stats don't always show the story, but at the same time, Alisson made maybe 1 really good save and a load of saves of weak shots, which probably lines up with the 1.61!

[MNAA]

Klopps rotation of players has been excellent this season. Arteta and Howe have played some of their players in every game for 90 minutes when fit. I can see why Rice would be gassed early at this stage of the season. In hindsight it may have been a big mistake to let Xhaka go.

Tend to agree but less so on "true" rotations but more so in terms managing minutes of his players. Klopp is currently the best at utilizing the 5-subs rule and this season we are seeing how almost every game our subs having significant impact on the game and becoming game changers. It was not just Jota and Gravenberch last night. Even Bradley and Clark played their roles very well when they came in

And we have a proper squad of players now including the young/academy players that Klopp can leaned on. Unlike the early days of Klopp, these academy players that we have in the first team squad today grew up and are truly ingrained within the Klopp system. Those players are in the first team squad on merit and they know that Klopp trusts them   

[NarutoReds]

+ The Guardian, "Mikel Arteta after the game":

"I haven't seen a team in the past six months that has generated what we have done against Liverpool in the last two games (including the 1-1 league draw at Anfield on 23 December)."

"We haven't capitalised. Not just today but in the last few games as well."

"Merit-wise there is no question that we deserve to win the games but the results are very different. "

"But when my team plays with that courage and attitude against probably the best team in Europe right now in terms of momentum what can I do but stick by them and support them?"

Arteta was asked whether Jesus's injury affected his mindset in terms of the January window.

"One thing is what we need and another is what we can do," he replied. "What we need to do now is stick behind the players, give them some love."
 

=====================

Arsenal will get an even longer break from football. They flight out to Dubai on Tuesday for a warm weather mid-season training camp and they look as though they need it.

At the start of the season the Gunners were a side making a habit of deciding a game in injury time.

In their past three matches they have barely been able to muster a presentable opportunity after the hour mark.

[MD1990]

no VVD & Salah. We deserve far more credit than we have received. Media bias is very poor.

[AllyouneedisRush]

There was maybe 2 chances Havertz could have done better on, including one where he took too long which probably meant the xG of that chance wasn't very high, and Saka had a chance to pull it back and miskicked it meaning it probably didn't even count. Another reason stats don't always show the story, but at the same time, Alisson made maybe 1 really good save and a load of saves of weak shots, which probably lines up with the 1.61!

Arsenal should have scored in the first half, and we couldnt have moaned if we had been losing at HT.. but it is the narratives from some the media today that they should have scored a hat full is just wrong.

Anyways, nice home draw please FA....

[Indomitable_Carp]

I'm seeing a lot of articles about Arsenal. Very few about how we have continued our winning form against a tough opponant away from home, missing about 6-7 first team players, and having brought on two youth players at 0-0 to help win us the game.

All that said, I'm happy to stay flying under the radar. It suits us.

[thaddeus]

And we have a proper squad of players now including the young/academy players that Klopp can leaned on. Unlike the early days of Klopp, these academy players that we have in the first team squad today grew up and are truly ingrained within the Klopp system. Those players are in the first team squad on merit and they know that Klopp trusts them

I think Klopp has always been very good at recognising when a young player can do a job since he came in.  In his early seasons he got minutes out of players like Brad Smith and Kevin Stewart when their careers since suggest they were never close to having the required ability.

I do agree though that academy seems more aligned with the first team that it has for a very long time.  It would be great to see one or two more emerge from the pack and establish themselves as first team squad members this season.

[TheMan]

"I haven't seen a team in the past six months that has generated what we have done against Liverpool in the last two games (including the 1-1 league draw at Anfield on 23 December)."

Complete and total BS from Arteta. His lies suggest they battered us both games. Xg for the league game was 0.6 or something and yesterday it was 1.6. For reference, our Xg against Newcastle was more than 7.

Don't like managers that lie to deflect from their own team's failings.

[slaphead]

"I haven't seen a team in the past six months that has generated what we have done against Liverpool in the last two games (including the 1-1 league draw at Anfield on 23 December)."

Complete and total BS from Arteta. His lies suggest they battered us both games. Xg for the league game was 0.6 or something and yesterday it was 1.6. For reference, our Xg against Newcastle was more than 7.

Don't like managers that lie to deflect from their own team's failings.

Nice of him to refer to us as the best team in Europe too when he was bumming up how good his team are.

[thaddeus]

"I haven't seen a team in the past six months that has generated what we have done against Liverpool in the last two games (including the 1-1 league draw at Anfield on 23 December)."

Complete and total BS from Arteta. His lies suggest they battered us both games. Xg for the league game was 0.6 or something and yesterday it was 1.6. For reference, our Xg against Newcastle was more than 7.

Don't like managers that lie to deflect from their own team's failings.

I think it was more of a bank-handed compliment from Arteta that we are a very good side.  Aside from a couple of the Europa away games I can't really remember anyone else creating so much against us as Arsenal did yesterday.

That said, Spurs (3) and Brighton (2.25) both had higher xG against us than Arsenal did yesterday.  I thought Arsenal were really negative in the league game and more focussed on spoiling than trying to win - a decision that's not aged particularly well as their form has nosedived since.

We've certainly out-played other sides this season far more than Arsenal did to us in the first half yesterday!

[Kashinoda]

no VVD & Salah. We deserve far more credit than we have received. Media bias is very poor.

He's been negative towards us for a while now, I remember a few years ago when DCL 'won' a penalty against us by jumping into Lovren and then going to ground, Shearer was in the studio and said something along the lines of "That's what all good strikers do, you can't give someone a reason to go down."

A few weeks later Lallana went down in the penalty area after being pulled back and shearer said "Football is a contact sport, you can touch someone without it being a penalty."

And then he complained about Liverpool fans calling him out over his hypocrisy;

"For all the Liverpool fans currently hurling personal abuse at me, my wife and kids because I happen to disagree with your opinion about the penalty decision, you do know you won don't you? PS So f**k off!"

To be fair to Shearer he was fantastic commentating on the Barcelona game.

And if meffs are giving his family abuse on Twitter he's right to call it out.

That said he was clueless as fuck last night, probably on the wind up.

[thaddeus]

And if meffs are giving his family abuse on Twitter he's right to call it out.

That said he was clueless as fuck last night, probably on the wind up.

It feels like he's the kind of stubborn character that will just double-down.  The fall-out from his bad punditry over the Calvert-Lewin and Lallana penalties seems to have hardened him against us a fanbase.  Before that I was certainly much warmer to him as a pundit than I was as an elbow-flailing player.

Newcastle thinking they're a rival to us won't have helped either as, like all of us, he'll be quietly cheering on whoever his rivals are playing.  Not relevant yesterday but on MotD it's apparent that he's always looking for kinks in our armour.

[B0151?]

So when Georginho told the ref to fuck off after he was dragging the shirt off our player?

Yeah no big complaints about me for the ref or Comms, both were fine. But the punishment for dissent is way too selective, no idea how Elliott was the first to be booked.

[smutchin]

Just seen Arsenal xG was 1.61..

I'm not having they should have been 3 or 4 up at half time..

Exactly!

All their shots that were actually "on target" were lame long-range efforts that didn't trouble Alisson unduly. Most of their chances weren't as clear cut as the commentators would have us believe - and I maintain a large part of that is down to how well we defended.

Yes, they pressed us well in the first half and spent a lot of time going forward, but without really looking all that dangerous.

Yes, they could have got lucky and had one of those chances go in but that xG stat is very revealing.

[B0151?]

Exactly!

All their shots that were actually "on target" were lame long-range efforts that didn't trouble Alisson unduly. Most of their chances weren't as clear cut as the commentators would have us believe - and I maintain a large part of that is down to how well we defended.

Yes, they pressed us well in the first half and spent a lot of time going forward, but without really looking all that dangerous.

Yes, they could have got lucky and had one of those chances go in but that xG stat is very revealing.

We defended under the cosh really well. Konate block for that one chance was incredible, fair enough Haverts is a bit clueless but we got back really well and their players were always under pressure in the box with no.time or space

[smutchin]

Yeah no big complaints about me for the ref or Comms, both were fine. But the punishment for dissent is way too selective, no idea how Elliott was the first to be booked.

I thought Elliott's reaction was as clear-cut as it could be - no complaints about that yellow.

Odegaard was perhaps more borderline but there was a clear hand gesture. Perhaps it was the fact that he very quickly turned away from looking directly at the ref that saved him.

There was at least one other they got away with though - can't remember who it was now (edit: Jorginho, of course) but it was as clear-cut as the Elliott yellow.

Overall, I thought the ref and the assistants had a pretty good game. But perhaps I'm just used to the standard being so low that even a merely "OK" refereeing performance looks good.

[Dave D]

These c*nts are losing the plot. Fans, players, the manager, the whole fucking lot of them. T

hey are obsessed with xG. They were whinging about us overwatering the pitch (we didn't) in the league game. They celebrate scraping wins against relegation teams like they've won the league. They are bottlers and their manager is a fraud.

Up the reds, more of the same against them next month.

[Funky_Gibbons]

To be fair to Shearer he was fantastic commentating on the Barcelona game.

And if meffs are giving his family abuse on Twitter he's right to call it out.

That said he was clueless as fuck last night, probably on the wind up.

Let's face it, it would have been pretty difficult to screw up sommentating on one of the greatest come backs in modern football in that atmosphere.

He's a typical British commentator who always supports the plucky underdog going into a game, which is why his opinion on the DCL and Lallana penalties are so contrary.
 

[naka]

But we've seen players tell a ref to fook off and nothing happen to them. Again, it seems to be a rule largely reserved for Liverpool players.

We don't seem to get away with half of what other teams can.

it was the flinging of teh arm etc
no issue with this yellow
thought the ref was fine and was wise to a couple of their dives

[Tony19:6]

Not sure about this narrative of a smash and grab...

Whilst Arsenal's finishing was shit, I can't recall Ali having to do much other than a few routine saves.

Best save of the game was Ramsdale from Lucho, we also hit the bar twice and scored 2 goals.... (I'm sure there were other chances - I know Darwin was close with one effort)

Therefore according to Shearers narrative we should have scored at least 5 or 6?

Salty slaphead 

[Funky_Gibbons]

it was the flinging of teh arm etc
no issue with this yellow
thought the ref was fine and was wise to a couple of their dives

You think the ref was fine?

https://v.redd.it/j9o8qz54q4bc1

[Sheer Magnetism]

Fantastic to see the youngsters pull out a result like that, especially the fact they managed to stay cool against an attacking onslaught away from home. Quansah and Konate looked like they could be our centre back pairing for the next decade, and with Elliott, Jones, Gravenberch, Quansah, Clark and Bradley having an average age of 20, the future looks very bright.

But I thought yesterday was very much about the manager. If there's one thing Klopp has definitively improved on during his time here it's substitutions, and he got them exactly right yesterday again. Arteta waited too long and it cost them dearly. One more thing: this will hit Arsenal hard psychologically. They couldn't put away a team at home without Virj, Salah, Matip, Robbo, Szobo or Endo, how can they be confident in a title race now?

And of course, it's nice to get through. Maidstone or Wrexham in the next round please and let's play the kids.