Topic: EL: Toulouse v Liverpool 3-2 Donnum 36 Dallinga 58 OG Cassares 73, Magri 75 Jota

[Fordy]

What is the point of a ref now?

[RK7]

But we have had better results this season in all competitions. So can you explain how its the same as last season?

Results don't always show the full picture, over a season we'll have a better idea but as I said, we still haven't fixed the issues. Last season we had just come off the back of playing 3 finals and pushing hard for the title, that was a massive factor, you can't just pretend that didn't happen and had no impact.

[Fromola]

Bullshit decision at the end, I remember a (Mane?) goal being ruled out at Spurs in similar fashion a couple of seasons for a Bobby ‘handball’ from around the halfway line.

Poor performance from the Reds overall though it must be said.

At least the Bobby handball was justified in the rules - at the time - to rule out.

[Butter Keks]

Mad that we are three points off the top, in a QF and top of the EL Group.

Yeah but APART from that it's been TERRIBLE!!

It's no wonder this place has gone to absolute shit. Full of fucking brats.

[red1977]

They were aggressive. 2nd goal from them was a cracker to be honest. Took my lad to bed at the last goal, but what i gathered from listening it was a phase back from the hand ball?. Saw the hand ball, no complaints on that. Not our night.

[Pistolero]

Worryingly poor again...no shape...lack of urgency....and almost zero quality from the first whistle to the last......need to get a fuckin grip pronto or this season is going to start running away from us.....

[Ray K]

"Nothing fixed from last season" You're an idiot.

Don't engage with idiots, it only encourages them.

He'll bring you down to his level then beat you with experience anyway.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

I think this is an overstatement, they were both present last year and we had numerous inept performances.

No I get the statement, I would say last year their awfulness at playing caught up with their major positives of being leaders, and nullified that.

We are missing a bit of a vocal, knowledgeable head in the game without VVD

[Wilmo]

The way I've always felt VAR should work is to have an automated decision based on the footage and then have a human review it to override if there is an issue with a 'spirit of the game' or a clear error made.

This incarnation seems to be to have as many incompetent twats in a row find the worst possible call.

[Fitzy.]

Hilariously bad refereeing.

Odd performance. Two games in a row where we’ve looked a tad underdone against dross.

[Jean Girard]

well that's not true is it, we deserved an equaliser which we legitimately scored and then we were robbed. You may be OK with that but I'm absolutely furious

Yeah I'm over the moon with it all. Delighted in fact. The referees and the performance.

The fun and the fucking point being sucked out of football. I love talking about referees instead of the match. Being fucked over weekly.

"Deserved nothing" is a figure of speech for how poor we were. Get over yourself.

[Robinred]

I would love to know the stats which demonstrate which team won more tackles, second balls, headers and blocks.

I hated their playacting - but I loved their aggression, particularly compared to ours. The result shouldn’t dent our chances of topping the group, but for much of that game we were second best at those aspects of the game they were superior in.

The refereeing was piss poor; I’d like to see it back, but I thought Mo could have been awarded a penalty twice - once for the assault by their ‘keeper, and another time for a shove when he was about to shoot. It was the sort of reffing performance you see when an FA cup 3rd round minnow plays host to a Premiership club.

[RK7]

"Nothing fixed from last season" You're an idiot.

Likewise

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Hilariously bad refereeing.

Odd performance. Two games in a row where we’ve looked a tad underdone against dross.

3 counting Bournemouth honestly

A mixture of away matches and exhaustion I imagine

[Samie]

Results don't always show the full picture, over a season we'll have a better idea but as I said, we still haven't fixed the issues. Last season we had just come off the back of playing 3 finals and pushing hard for the title, that was a massive factor, you can't just pretend that didn't happen and had no impact.

That was 2 seasons ago. Do keep up.

[Szobosslad]

Results don't always show the full picture, over a season we'll have a better idea but as I said, we still haven't fixed the issues. Last season we had just come off the back of playing 3 finals and pushing hard for the title, that was a massive factor, you can't just pretend that didn't happen and had no impact.

We've had a 25 plus match unbeaten streak before the Spurs fiasco which shows improvement. We aren't going to be world beaters over night, but this side is better than last year.

Having a fit Diaz and confident Nunez is one upgrade on it's own, we have more athleticism and dynamism in midfield, whilst still having issues to fix, but we're better than what we were last season.

[Draex]

I think this is an overstatement, they were both present last year and we had numerous inept performances.

This is Toulouse and no disrespect intended they are not a good side, we were playing Champions League last year but their legs had gone but at least they provided some leadership. Didn't see any tonight, everyone content to walk around being outfought all game. Milner would have steamed into one of theirs and laid a marker, legs or not.

[Jookie]

Loads of mitigating circumstances tonight. Wouldn’t go too hard or heavy on any individuals performance.

Collectively they were poor though. Holistically some of the issues we saw tonight are present across a lot of the away games. Lack of control and defensive solidity away from home has been there for 18 months or even longer now. Tonight it was magnified due to personnel and performance. We are going to struggle to win any comp if we need to score at least 2 goals to win. Likely to have not kept a clean sheet in any comp by the time we reach December. That’s worrying.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Results don't always show the full picture, over a season we'll have a better idea but as I said, we still haven't fixed the issues. Last season we had just come off the back of playing 3 finals and pushing hard for the title, that was a massive factor, you can't just pretend that didn't happen and had no impact.

So the midfield comprising only of slow, physically passive older players still remains then?

[Tonyh8su]

What a fucking shambles that is. I have no other words. Fucking absolute joke. Scrap the whole thing the referee saw the fuckin thing happen love and waved play on and told the Toulouse players to shut up. And about 3 phases of play later we score, he GIVES THE FUCKING GOAL after a lengthy VAR review and then after giving it goes to the screen and disallowed it not using the laws of the game. It’s a fucking farce.

[Dougle]

Just like to put a positive word in for Elliott in particular and Quansah. Harvey was excellent in my opinion. They wanted it more, the first goal, their first shot, a deflection, gave them what they needed. Not much of a performance, very disjointed  really. Win the next game and we may be there. 4 points over 2 games will guarantee it.

[shank94]

The loss of Milner and Hendo quite clear when Van Dijk isn't around.

Not at all Hendo but I think I might just agree with the Milner shout. But again, there is nothing saying Milner would not take the yellow like Endo considering Harvey and Macca often found themselves in tatters.

[Eeyore]

The problem was that we have far too many players who lack athleticism. You can hide 1 or 2 but half of tonight's side lack pace. Matip, the entire midfield and Gakpo are all on the slow side.

The real issue was the midfield. Endo, Mac Allister, and Elliott as a combination were painful to watch. If you are going to play with three out-and-out forwards then you need legs in the midfield and above all you need a quality 6.

[Samie]

So the midfield comprising only of slow, physically passive older players still remains then?

 

He's probably shouting at Hendo and FAbinho through the tele.

[lamonti]

Toulouse full value for that. So aggressive and took their chances really really well. How are they so shit otherwise?

We didn't wake up until around 80 mins. One of the ones you can probably afford to lose.

No idea what the handball law is, but feels like he rescued bad control with his arm.

[stockdam]

Bullshit decision at the end, I remember a (Mane?) goal being ruled out at Spurs in similar fashion a couple of seasons for a Bobby ‘handball’ from around the halfway line.

Poor performance from the Reds overall though it must be said.

They changed the rule after Firmino’s handball but it’s still vague. The goal is meant to be given unless the handball is immediately before the goal. To me that would be 3 to 4 passes max.

MacAllisters handball was a deflection off his chest and not straight at his arm. He didn’t gain any advantage as nobody was near him and it wasn’t a clear error by the referee. I guess that VAR just looked at the handball in isolation rather than how far it was before the goal.

The law was changed so that only a clear handball immediately before a goal is penalised.

[Fromola]

TNT twats again all saying it was a handball and rightly ruled out.

As if Mccoist wasn't bad enough in the derby.

[Draex]

you need a quality 6.

So basically that performance is all down to fsg not signing Caicedo? right?

[killer-heels]

Results don't always show the full picture, over a season we'll have a better idea but as I said, we still haven't fixed the issues. Last season we had just come off the back of playing 3 finals and pushing hard for the title, that was a massive factor, you can't just pretend that didn't happen and had no impact.

Its well over a quarter of the season. Its not just the results but the underlying numbers which are better and its those things that reflect performance. I am sorry but you cant make a statement like that without it being pointed out that the opinion is completely wrong.

[jillcwhomever]

Loads of mitigating circumstances tonight. Wouldn’t go too hard or heavy on any individuals performance.

Collectively they were poor though. Holistically some of the issues we saw tonight are present across a lot of the away games. Lack of control and defensive solidity away from home has been there for 18 months or even longer now. Tonight it was magnified due to personnel and performance. We are going to struggle to win any comp if we need to score at least 2 goals to win. Likely to have not kept a lean sheet in any comp by the time we reach December. That’s worrying.

Exactly, but then another brand new midfield, not sure these three have started together before, so  it was always going to a challenge for them to click straight away. It also wasn't helped by the fact that Gakpo was so invisible tonight.

[smicer07]

VAR. Ruining excitement in footy.

[DonkeyWan]

I'm not going to say Endo had a good match, and I know Elliot played better at least offensively, but whenever I see Elliot in the midfield, it always seems to me the midfield is not as physical, more vulnerable. He's definitely a good player but I think he has worked better as a sub when the shape of the team needs someone of his particular skillset

Elliott 100% isn't a midfielder, but currently his best position is occupied by one of the best players to ever play for the club! Also, Klopp is clearly blooding Doak, so Elliott gets a midfield berth. Liverpool lose physicality, but gain attack. It's very obvious away from home. But a better 6 would cover the gaps he leaves a lot better.

Still feel liverpool are one midfielder away from fioxingt he problems. The players brought in are nothing like Caicedo, who Liverpool tried to get. Gravenberch is the closest to that, but Klopp prefers Mac Allister in that role. I think if he had a proper 6 both would be fighting to start alongside szlob.

[astowell1]

VAR sorely needs binning until its perfected or at least more efficient.

[Szobosslad]

This is Toulouse and no disrespect intended they are not a good side, we were playing Champions League last year but their legs had gone but at least they provided some leadership. Didn't see any tonight, everyone content to walk around being outfought all game. Milner would have steamed into one of theirs and laid a marker, legs or not.

We've had performances like this in other years whilst Milner was doing exactly that. Being vocal on the pitch is overstated, it helps sure, but at the end of the day, that doesn't prevent poor performances in a whole side.

[dirkster]

What a farcical end to the game. Honestly, they should just fuck VAR off. It's just not working. It's truly spoiling the game.

[Samie]

Its well over a quarter of the season. Its not just the results but the underlying numbers which are better and its those things that reflect performance. I am sorry but you cant make a statement like that without it being pointed out that the opinion is completely wrong.

Nah don;t let the eye test and stats back you up now.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

The problem was that we have far too many players who lack athleticism. You can hide 1 or 2 but half of tonight's side lack pace. Matip, the entire midfield and Gakpo are all on the slow side.

The real issue was the midfield. Endo, Mac Allister, and Elliott as a combination were painful to watch. If you are going to play with three out-and-out forwards then you need legs in the midfield and above all you need a quality 6.

We needed Dom and one of Nunez, Salah, or Jota starting tonight. Which is where the midfield injuries really hurt because other than Dom, Grav and Jones are both hurt so Dom is kinda the only one of the attacking athletic midfielders we have available

[Fromola]

The loss of Milner and Hendo quite clear when Van Dijk isn't around.

They always set the standards but we weren't up for the battle at all last season away from home with them around either.

If we knew Hendo was going though we'd have made sure to keep Milner. Endo is not a Milner replacement in those terms.

[masher]

3 counting Bournemouth honestly

A mixture of away matches and exhaustion I imagine

Why would the players be exhausted, plenty of rotation for midweek games, most of which have been a stroll. The Bournemouth game I discounted due to unplayable conditions but last two away performances have given me flashbacks of last season.

[stockdam]

Toulouse full value for that. So aggressive and took their chances really really well. How are they so shit otherwise?

We didn't wake up until around 80 mins. One of the ones you can probably afford to lose.

No idea what the handball law is, but feels like he rescued bad control with his arm.

Basically every team that we will play is decent. They are not poor players. If you give them space and time then they are well capable of scoring. Toulouse defended much better than we did and were more determined to win the ball and also not give us any space.