Author Topic: Chelsea - schooled by Liverpool's kids  (Read 212463 times)

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #240 on: August 14, 2023, 04:24:22 pm »
They key for me was "FFP punishment is financial". Says it all. It MUST be footballing punishment, not financial.

Exactly it needs to be something which has serious consequences, otherwise what is the point?
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Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #241 on: August 14, 2023, 04:27:07 pm »
No, it's the way clubs keep books, outgoings are amoritized over time (so 100m becomes 20m per annum) while incomings are immediately 'banked' (on the books only) so for accountancy (and crucially, auditing) purposes, losses can be 'pushed down' the road' while profits are instantly counted.

What he is not really talking about is  the losses that were on the books when Boehly took over (Chelsea has made massive transfer  losses over the last 4 years that pre-date Boehly) so unless they have done some jiggery pokery to get around that then those numbners from the past will also be snowballing into the future alongside the new losses accruing.

Even if Chelsea some how fail to fall foul of FFP, if they keep gambling and failing to succeed, they will be wiped out. It's what happened to Everton. The problem is, when the initial investment fails, they end up doubling down and making even more problems. It's a big gamble. They basically bet a billion to make the CL and turn Chelsea into a superclub. When that failed last year, their choices were to become more cautious or to invest more in their gamble. Because their initial gamble was so big, they couldn'y afford caution so doubled-down instead. If they fail this year it will get harder and harder. Then, just like Everton, they will hit a wall and be thoroughly fucked.

That's what FFP is for, to stop these kinds of gambles with sporting institutions. Fans love it at first, but look at Everton now. The club is in freefall and they are screaming for an oil magnate to save them. Chelsea might yet succeed, but the difference between them and sportswashers is the lack of peril for sportswashers (who can endlessly bail out their clubs). Chelsea could fail (likely will, imo, they have no decent forwards) and in two years we will be seeing weepy eyed Chelsea fans calling for Abramovich to come back.

We can but hope.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #242 on: August 14, 2023, 04:51:51 pm »
If Chelsea are getting around this as suggested by only counting an eight of the value due to the contracts being 8 years, why are they only counting the players signed since Boehly took over? Surely the players bought beforehand will count towards each years spend? 

Only if those players are still on their books though. When you sell a player their book value is deducted from the amount they are sold for and so does the amortisation.
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Offline decosabute

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #243 on: August 14, 2023, 05:25:39 pm »
If Chelsea are getting around this as suggested by only counting an eight of the value due to the contracts being 8 years, why are they only counting the players signed since Boehly took over? Surely the players bought beforehand will count towards each years spend?

Well, the media (at least those who are even bothered to analyse it, like Simon Jordan in this case) seem to only be thinking about their spending since Boehly came along.

But there are other players on the books, like Lukaku, who were signed for big money and are still being amortised on the accounts in reality. Now, to be fair they've gotten rid of a lot of the players they spent big on (Werner, Havertz for example), but Lukaku alone probably still costs £25m a year (£100m ÷ 4 years).

Also, another thing that isn't really getting picked up in mainstream media is that the money from aforementioned players they sold won't simply show up on the books as pure profit - they'll also have to subtract their book value from the fee they got. So, in Havertz' case for example, he still had two years left of his five year deal, so still had a book value  (amount still left to be amortised) of £28m. So even though Jordan is talking as though Arsenal paying £60m for him means £60m of pure profit, the actual amount of profit Chelsea get on the books is £32m, not the whole amount.

Basically, it's all well and good for people to say, "this is how Chelsea are doing what they're doing", but to me it still seems absolutey batshit crazy. Even selling a shitload of players is barely accounting for their amortised spending, never mind the fact that these amortised fees will be there every single year - and getting added to - for the next five years, or seven years in a lot of cases.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2023, 05:27:23 pm by decosabute »

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #244 on: August 14, 2023, 05:28:25 pm »
So it appears we never had a £60m fee agreed??

Offline Jshooters

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #245 on: August 14, 2023, 05:31:44 pm »
Well, the media (at least those who are even bothered to analyse it, like Simon Jordan in this case) seem to only be thinking about their spending since Boehly came along.

But there are other players on the books, like Lukaku, who were signed for big money and are still being amortised on the accounts in reality. Now, to be fair they've gotten rid of a lot of the players they spent big on (Werner, Havertz for example), but Lukaku alone probably still costs £25m a year (£100m ÷ 4 years).

Also, another thing that isn't really getting picked up in mainstream media is that the money from aforementioned players they sold won't simply show up on the books as pure profit - they'll also have to subtract their book value from the fee they got. So, in Havertz' case for example, he still had two years left of his five year deal, so still had a book value  (amount still left to be amortised) of £28m. So even though Jordan is talking as though Arsenal paying £60m for him means £60m of pure profit, the actual amount of profit Chelsea get on the books is £32m, not the whole amount.

Basically, it's all well and good for people to say, "this is how Chelsea are doing what they're doing", but to me it still seems absolutey batshit crazy. Even selling a shitload of players is barely accounting for their amortised spending, never mind the fact that these amortised fees will be there every single year - and getting added to - for the next five years, or seven years in a lot of cases.

Exactly my point, articulated so much better  :D
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Offline Persephone

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #246 on: August 14, 2023, 05:41:19 pm »
Approximately £1 billion in less than 12 months. Nothing to see here, move along.
I’ve plenty links to the clubs playing and backroom staff as many on here know thank you very much. Fair enough, I admire your optimism. But you’re absolute ostriches if you think this squad, even with 2 or 3 new, “cut price” players with potential get us anywhere close

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #247 on: August 14, 2023, 05:54:46 pm »
Approximately £1 billion in less than 12 months. Nothing to see here, move along.

All above board of course.

They’ve gone from one extreme to another!

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #248 on: August 14, 2023, 05:56:47 pm »
Well, the media (at least those who are even bothered to analyse it, like Simon Jordan in this case) seem to only be thinking about their spending since Boehly came along.

But there are other players on the books, like Lukaku, who were signed for big money and are still being amortised on the accounts in reality. Now, to be fair they've gotten rid of a lot of the players they spent big on (Werner, Havertz for example), but Lukaku alone probably still costs £25m a year (£100m ÷ 4 years).

Also, another thing that isn't really getting picked up in mainstream media is that the money from aforementioned players they sold won't simply show up on the books as pure profit - they'll also have to subtract their book value from the fee they got. So, in Havertz' case for example, he still had two years left of his five year deal, so still had a book value  (amount still left to be amortised) of £28m. So even though Jordan is talking as though Arsenal paying £60m for him means £60m of pure profit, the actual amount of profit Chelsea get on the books is £32m, not the whole amount.

Basically, it's all well and good for people to say, "this is how Chelsea are doing what they're doing", but to me it still seems absolutey batshit crazy. Even selling a shitload of players is barely accounting for their amortised spending, never mind the fact that these amortised fees will be there every single year - and getting added to - for the next five years, or seven years in a lot of cases.

Jordan actually mentioned Havertz's value on the balance sheet and deducted it from his sale price. Lukaku was signed for £97.5m on a 5 year deal so his amortisation cost is £19.5m a season. That was partly offset by the £7m loan fee they received last season.

I would imagine they might try and offload him to a Saudi team, ideally a loan that covers the amortisation cost. 

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Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #249 on: August 14, 2023, 05:56:57 pm »
So it appears we never had a £60m fee agreed??

Quelle surprise Chelsea journalist touting lies around.
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #250 on: August 14, 2023, 06:05:01 pm »
Just when you think you can't dislike them any more.

Offline decosabute

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #251 on: August 14, 2023, 06:06:01 pm »
Jordan actually mentioned Havertz's value on the balance sheet and deducted it from his sale price. Lukaku was signed for £97.5m on a 5 year deal so his amortisation cost is £19.5m a season. That was partly offset by the £7m loan fee they received last season.

I would imagine they might try and offload him to a Saudi team, ideally a loan that covers the amortisation cost.

Didn't realise this as I only watched the first few minutes of a long clip, sorry.

Still think what they're doing is fucking mental, mind.

Offline Jwils21

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #252 on: August 14, 2023, 06:39:47 pm »
Threw in a public transfer request in January to try and force a move because he was too big for Brighton. Now he’s also too big to go to Liverpool and instead fancied Chelsea, where he’ll join the other 160 signings they’ve made over the last year or two.

Don’t wish him an injury, that’s small time, but I hope he flops and gets hounded by the gutter press.

Offline God's Left Peg

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #253 on: August 14, 2023, 06:40:22 pm »
Just when you think you can't dislike them any more.

It's quite a feat.
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #254 on: August 14, 2023, 07:14:50 pm »
Threw in a public transfer request in January to try and force a move because he was too big for Brighton. Now he’s also too big to go to Liverpool and instead fancied Chelsea, where he’ll join the other 160 signings they’ve made over the last year or two.

Don’t wish him an injury, that’s small time, but I hope he flops and gets hounded by the gutter press.

Remember that huge instagram post he put up? Trying to force a move to arsenal. Now apparently “he’s always been a blue”  :lmao just another mercenary.

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #255 on: August 14, 2023, 07:35:40 pm »
I just read that after Caicedo, now "Roméo Lavia would prefer to join Chelsea rather than Liverpool".

Did I wake up in an alternate timeline or some bizarro world?

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #256 on: August 14, 2023, 07:44:59 pm »
https://twitter.com/MattHughesDM/status/1691157341327020032

Quote
EXCL: Premier League are set to CLOSE FFP loophole exploited by Chelsea.  Premier League are set to close FFP loophole exploited by Chelsea by aligning with UEFA amortisation rules on five-year transfer payments


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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #257 on: August 14, 2023, 07:49:03 pm »



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Offline BBS

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #259 on: August 14, 2023, 08:01:30 pm »
Isn't this a simular situation to how Barcas economics went to shit? Buying players on installments, having to generate income to cover up fees and all that? I'm genuinly asking. Feels like it has to come back to bite them if they can't deliver on the pitch and generate income. If it were our finances that were being handled like this I'd be worried not ecstatic like their fanbase seems to be

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #260 on: August 14, 2023, 08:02:21 pm »
Isn't this a simular situation to how Barcas economics went to shit? Buying players on installments, having to generate income to cover up fees and all that? I'm genuinly asking. Feels like it has to come back to bite them if they can't deliver on the pitch and generate income. If it were our finances that were being handled like this I'd be worried not ecstatic like their fanbase seems to be
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #261 on: August 14, 2023, 08:05:01 pm »
https://twitter.com/MattHughesDM/status/1691157341327020032


Re-arrange these words to form a well known phrase -  Door Bolted The Closing Stable Horse The After Has
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Offline Shankly998

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #262 on: August 14, 2023, 08:08:33 pm »
Regardless of the p&l accounting of it ultimately that's a net huge cash outflow how much cash do they have available for big money transfers

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #263 on: August 14, 2023, 08:13:00 pm »
Re-arrange these words to form a well known phrase -  Door Bolted The Closing Stable Horse The After Has

Said that in the transfer thread.  ::)
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Offline Shankly998

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #264 on: August 14, 2023, 08:15:34 pm »
https://twitter.com/MattHughesDM/status/1691157341327020032


TBF I'm not sure they should change that why can't a club offer a contract to a player for more than 5 years and amortise that accordingly in line with the contract sure it's an FFP help but ultimately the club is committing to increased expenditure over an extended period of time for a player who could turn out to be shit that they're then stuck with hardly risk free for them

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #265 on: August 14, 2023, 08:17:12 pm »
If we can't cap salaries then we need to do something. Capping contracts is the next best thing perhaps?
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #266 on: August 14, 2023, 08:19:00 pm »
If we can't cap salaries then we need to do something. Capping contracts is the next best thing perhaps?
This explains why agents are even more greedy but fear not mate, progress is being made regarding financial regulations.  Slowly but surely...

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Offline rob1966

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #267 on: August 14, 2023, 08:23:28 pm »
Said that in the transfer thread.  ::)

When I develop software for work that restricts what the staff can do, I put my "Branch staff" hat on and think "what would I have done when I worked in the Branches to get around the restrictions" and close as many as I can find - then the tester, who is also ex Branch does the same and he catches what I missed. Why can't the PL do the same type of thing with their rules?
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Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #268 on: August 14, 2023, 08:26:59 pm »
When I develop software for work that restricts what the staff can do, I put my "Branch staff" hat on and think "what would I have done when I worked in the Branches to get around the restrictions" and close as many as I can find - then the tester, who is also ex Branch does the same and he catches what I missed. Why can't the PL do the same type of thing with their rules?

We need to send you down to them rob and get them sorted out, but you are right putting yourself in that position is exactly the right thing to do. We know how competitive sport is so someone is always going to try and get around the rules, that is something everyone in a football authority should understand and be keeping their eyes on.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #269 on: August 14, 2023, 08:27:02 pm »
If we can't cap salaries then we need to do something. Capping contracts is the next best thing perhaps?

You can't cap salaries but you can cap what each club can spend on wages in total. With the money sloshing about in footy at the top clubs, you'd need to think really hard about how you did it to try to make it fairer for small clubs, but t=it could be done. It won't those, cos they are all, in the main, greedy c*nts.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #270 on: August 14, 2023, 08:47:58 pm »
Didn't realise this as I only watched the first few minutes of a long clip, sorry.

Still think what they're doing is fucking mental, mind.

It is a very high-risk strategy but it does have some merits. I mean look at it from the other point of view. You spend a huge transfer fee on a young player on a four-year deal. He has a season to settle and develop, followed by a break-out season.

He then has only two years left and you have to give him a massive pay rise or risk losing him on a free. Look at what Mbappe has done to PSG.

Chelsea are gambling that the market will keep on rising and that a decent strike rate means they have some exceptional players tied down on long-term deals. 
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #271 on: August 14, 2023, 08:50:05 pm »
It is a very high-risk strategy but it does have some merits. I mean look at it from the other point of view. You spend a huge transfer fee on a young player on a four-year deal. He has a season to settle and develop, followed by a break-out season.

He then has only two years left and you have to give him a massive pay rise or risk losing him on a free. Look at what Mbappe has done to PSG.

Chelsea are gambling that the market will keep on rising and that a decent strike rate means they have some exceptional players tied down on long-term deals.
Players demand a pay rise when they feel they deserve it. It has nothing to do with the number of years left on their deal because other teams can unsettle them by offering more

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #273 on: August 14, 2023, 08:55:00 pm »




Absolutely mental. Honestly wouldn't be arsed about us getting the majority of those players.
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #274 on: August 14, 2023, 08:56:21 pm »
Probably Fernandez and Gvardiol from the Premier League list.

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #275 on: August 14, 2023, 09:00:57 pm »
Cucurella about to go on loan to newcastle.

Is this the plan - break every rule with Chelsea then loan/sell to newcastle for pennies so they never break FFP?

Offline Terry de Niro

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #276 on: August 14, 2023, 09:05:41 pm »
Cucurella about to go on loan to newcastle.

Is this the plan - break every rule with Chelsea then loan/sell to newcastle for pennies so they never break FFP?
Dodgy as fuck.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #277 on: August 14, 2023, 09:07:54 pm »
Players demand a pay rise when they feel they deserve it. It has nothing to do with the number of years left on their deal because other teams can unsettle them by offering more

Players use the length of their deal as a negotiating tool to force clubs to pay them more. The club has to price in how much it would cost to replace the player if they leave for nothing.

As for another club offering them more wages they would have to meet Chelsea's asking price.

If it was just about exploiting a loophole then why would they give the likes of Colwill a 6 year deal.

For me it is about replicating the US sports model were longer deals are commonplace.

It would not surprise me if they are expecting other clubs to do something similar.
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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #278 on: August 14, 2023, 09:09:45 pm »
Players use the length of their deal as a negotiating tool to force clubs to pay them more. The club has to price in how much it would cost to replace the player if they leave for nothing.

As for another club offering them more wages they would have to meet Chelsea's asking price.

If it was just about exploiting a loophole then why would they give the likes of Colwill a 6 year deal.

For me it is about replicating the US sports model were longer deals are commonplace.

It would not surprise me if they are expecting other clubs to do something similar.
You don't want unsettled players. A mercenary like Caicedo can down tools if he wants a raise. Clubs won't move to longer contracts because the loopholes have been closed.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Chelsea - The Saudi money is just RESTING in Todd Boehly's Account
« Reply #279 on: August 14, 2023, 09:33:30 pm »
You don't want unsettled players. A mercenary like Caicedo can down tools if he wants a raise. Clubs won't move to longer contracts because the loopholes have been closed.

We signed Nunez on a six year deal, Madrid signed Bellingham on a six year deal. It makes sense as transfer fees go up to protect the club by tying down players to longer deals.
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