Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé

[JackWard33]

As long as its some really good footballers. In my opinion we have lost our way with signings since and including the summer of 2022. Many of the players signed then and since have question marks over them bar Mac Allister.

Most of them are pre peak
They've also been a significant part of a >+1xg/90 team - 80+ point team

There's some buys we can be critical of but we've done a pretty good job and there's every chance it'll look better as the seasons go by

The biggest issue we have at the moment is the perception that we should be a complete team... if Klopp was staying the vibe would be - last summer was a good first step .. 3 or 4 more this summer and we're getting close to the next great team .. so that's probably should be the vibe going forward

[Wool]

I think we have enough good footballers but not enough athletes. By that I mean players capable of physically dominating their zone.

[na fir dearg]

Honestly three top class players and we will be flying. Defence, midfield and attack.

if they don't get injured

[killer-heels]

Most of them are pre peak
They've also been a significant part of a >+1xg/90 team - 80+ point team

There's some buys we can be critical of but we've done a pretty good job and there's every chance it'll look better as the seasons go by

The biggest issue we have at the moment is the perception that we should be a complete team... if Klopp was staying the vibe would be - last summer was a good first step .. 3 or 4 more this summer and we're getting close to the next great team .. so that's probably should be the vibe going forward

I agree with that hence why i want us to look at 3 quality footballers. I dont want to debate Nunez and Szobozslai in great detail but thats about £120m and there is still a question over levels, first name on the team sheet and all that.

I also think we have to start having players take up the mantle as our best players are still the class of 2018-20.

[BobPaisley3]

I could see us going after Levi Colwell again, altough I think he's injured aswell :/

Centre back is arguably the biggest issue this summer. VVD another year older, Matip going, Konate unreliable, Quansah has done well but still learning the role, Gomez doing bits everywhere. We need to identify a top class centre back for the next 5 years as a priority.

[disgraced cake]

Gravenberch and Gakpo are very good footballers. We ought to know how to use them.

Reckon Gravenberch will get more of a chance under Slot judging by what little I know about him. I'd play him in the last three to let him hopefully end the season on a good note, thought he was good in the second half yesterday, a few little moments where he showed what he was about.

[JackWard33]

Reckon Gravenberch will get more of a chance under Slot judging by what little I know about him. I'd play him in the last three to let him hopefully end the season on a good note, thought he was good in the second half yesterday, a few little moments where he showed what he was about.

Agree…There’s a decent chance Gravenberch becomes elite over the next couple of seasons if he can stay fit and get minutes

[DiggerJohn]

I agree with that hence why i want us to look at 3 quality footballers. I dont want to debate Nunez and Szobozslai in great detail but thats about £120m and there is still a question over levels, first name on the team sheet and all that.

I also think we have to start having players take up the mantle as our best players are still the class of 2018-20.

What's the going cost of these types of footballers. Nunez £70 & Szoboszlai 60m weren't cheap and were not the finished article. Very lucky to get MacAllister now he is that guy

[Phineus]

What's the going cost of these types of footballers. Nunez £70 & Szoboszlai 60m weren't cheap and were not the finished article. Very lucky to get MacAllister now he is that guy

Those types of fees we can do, we won’t however be pairing them with 200-300k wages per week from the off. You’d expect the wage bill to drop significantly over next 1-2 seasons as the big earners are gradually replaced.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Agree…There’s a decent chance Gravenberch becomes elite over the next couple of seasons if he can stay fit and get minutes

You think? Maybe I'm just not seeing it but he doesn't look like he has the decision-making tools. There was a point yesterday when he picked up the ball in their third, dribbled halfway across the pitch sideways, ignoring the available pass forward, and ended up passing it back to a defender. I'd much prefer a destroyer playing behind Mac and one of Jones, Trent or Elliott.

For me, he looks like one of those players RAWK likes because of his physicality. I just don't get what he does that's better than our other midfielders.

[Garlic Red]

Agree…There’s a decent chance Gravenberch becomes elite over the next couple of seasons if he can stay fit and get minutes

I’m excited about Gravenberch’s potential, my only worry is quite exactly what type of player will he be?

I can see all the tools, I’m just not sure what the end result looks like. An athletic, ball carrying 8 that can operate out wide and more centrally, is press resistant but has a bit of a limited passing range? Feels a bit like what we thought Naby would be (and was at points when fit), is a taller Naby a fair comp in a few years or what?

[Simplexity]

Could be the busiest summer in many a year this.

Seems somewhat likely that a lot of players may leave due to contracts; Salah, VVD, trent. Thago is obviously off. Diaz might be off. Is allison still keen on staying after Klopp has gone? Could kelleher just be the new no1?

Interesting times for sure

[killer-heels]

Could be the busiest summer in many a year this.

Seems somewhat likely that a lot of players may leave due to contracts; Salah, VVD, trent. Thago is obviously off. Diaz might be off. Is allison still keen on staying after Klopp has gone? Could kelleher just be the new no1?

Interesting times for sure

Safe to say it will be a disaster if we lost all those players.

[Andar]

Safe to say it will be a disaster if we lost all those players.

We'll be fine without Salah and Trent. They were both out for a few months and we hardly felt it.

Bradley is a better defender and his attacking contribution is very good too. He is far too special to be playing back-up.

Salah is more of a risk to lose and a lot will depend on Jota staying fit and buying a decent replacement, but it is time to move on when it comes to Salah.

Van Dijk would be a very massive blow though. I can't see him leaving anyway.

[cdav]

Can someone tell me why we should lose all of our best players? Its fucking mad

Keep Trent and Van Dijk, questions about the forward line but we should be adding quality physical players through the spine of this team. Getting our best players on the pitch consistently is going to be the big thing

[killer-heels]

We'll be fine without Salah and Trent. They were both out for a few months and we hardly felt it.

Bradley is a better defender and his attacking contribution is very good too. He is far too special to be playing back-up.

Salah is more of a risk to lose and a lot will depend on Jota staying fit and buying a decent replacement, but it is time to move on when it comes to Salah.

Van Dijk would be a very massive blow though. I can't see him leaving anyway.

Trent is our only world class player under 30.

I cant understand this forum. Want to sell all our best players and then throw up names like Anthony Gordon and Antonee Robinson as the players to buy. Some mad shouts.

[JackWard33]

I’m excited about Gravenberch’s potential, my only worry is quite exactly what type of player will he be?

I can see all the tools, I’m just not sure what the end result looks like. An athletic, ball carrying 8 that can operate out wide and more centrally, is press resistant but has a bit of a limited passing range? Feels a bit like what we thought Naby would be (and was at points when fit), is a taller Naby a fair comp in a few years or what?

Yeah his position is the question mark .. I’d like to see him in a double pivot, think that’s where he played a lot for Ajax - no idea if he’s good enough defensively but his def numbers as an 8 are decent and he’d be the more advanced of the two - he’s just so good at playing in tight spaces and progressing it

His passing is basically fantastic by the way - he moves the ball forward incredibly well passing or carrying https://fbref.com/en/players/b8e740fb/Ryan-Gravenberch

It’s easy to forget how little football he’s played - he’s 21 and played 16 league 90s in the last two years and about to turn 22
Could be 2/3 years off his peak … his main challenge will be getting minutes to develop

[Garlic Red]

Trent is our only world class player under 30.

I cant understand this forum. Want to sell all our best players and then throw up names like Anthony Gordon and Antonee Robinson as the players to buy. Some mad shouts.

It’s only as mad as demanding world class players then suggesting Todibo and Colwill, two players who’ve never even played in the Champions League.

Salah’s the only player we should be looking at selling for all of the reasons we’ve listed in his thread (age, contract, salary, sale value), any other sales should only be if the player may want to go (maybe Diaz) or we need an upgrade (maybe Tsimikas). Robinson would be an upgrade on Tsimikas, Gordon wouldn’t be the worst replacement for Diaz.

[killer-heels]

It’s only as mad as demanding world class players then suggesting Todibo and Colwill, two players who’ve never even played in the Champions League.

Salah’s the only player we should be looking at selling for all of the reasons we’ve listed in his thread (age, contract, salary, sale value), any other sales should only be if the player may want to go (maybe Diaz) or we need an upgrade (maybe Tsimikas). Robinson would be an upgrade on Tsimikas, Gordon wouldn’t be the worst replacement for Diaz.

So spend £60-80m on Gordon to replace Diaz? Sounds like a mad idea. Also, we dont need better than Tsimikas, we need someone as good or better than Robertson.

Signing both would be incredibly stupid by our football club.

[Barefoot Doctor]

For centreback i would go for one of Todibo or Colwill. For the attack it depends on the position but Id want to push the boat out for Napoli lad, Wirtz or Musiala, failing that Olise or see if we can get Minteh off Newcastle’s hands. If its a striker then Openda or Boniface.

For the midfield i have no idea.

That would be enough but if we want a full back then its Ait-Nouri or Maatsen.

Think we need to decide what type of CB we’re recruiting. Colwill is a lefty, so would be competing with Virgil - assuming he sees out his contract. Whereas Toribo could partner Virg.

On Openda, Romano says he has an 80m euro release clause but only valid from next year. Trying to get someone out of Leipzig without a clause is a nightmare so doubt we look there.

[killer-heels]

Think we need to decide what type of CB we’re recruiting. Colwill is a lefty, so would be competing with Virgil - assuming he sees out his contract. Whereas Toribo could partner Virg.

On Openda, Romano says he has an 80m euro release clause but only valid from next year. Trying to get someone out of Leipzig without a clause is a nightmare so doubt we look there.

Yeah I read that about Openda, for me he goes on a list for looking at in 12 months and we focus on a top winger, dont give a shit if its left or right wing. Personally I would sell one of Gakpo or Diaz and put all the money on an attacker.

I really like Colwill, I think he is great. But in this instance Id probably go for Todibo. Maybe Colwill in 12 months or try to get both in if we are making numerous sales.

[red mongoose]

Yeah his position is the question mark .. I’d like to see him in a double pivot, think that’s where he played a lot for Ajax - no idea if he’s good enough defensively but his def numbers as an 8 are decent and he’d be the more advanced of the two - he’s just so good at playing in tight spaces and progressing it.

Agreed. I think we all have to keep in mind that he is just getting used to the pace of this league - he has all the potential in the world.

I wanted to ask you something. Is there any way Trent could work as the outside right of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1? It seems like a good idea to build around our best player and get the most out of him (though you could argue that Macca is our best player bar Allison). We'd want to minimize his defensive responsibilities as much as possible and stress his strengths. I know he'd have to defend from the front, but there would be a lot less pressure on him defensively up there.

If we add a strong DM, plus Bradley, it frees Macca to move up and shores up our right side in the back.

[killer-heels]

Agreed. I think we all have to keep in mind that he is just getting used to the pace of this league - he has all the potential in the world.

I wanted to ask you something. Is there any way Trent could work as the outside right of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1? It seems like a good idea to build around our best player and get the most out of him (though you could argue that Macca is our best player bar Allison). We'd want to minimize his defensive responsibilities as much as possible and stress his strengths. I know he'd have to defend from the front, but there would be a lot less pressure on him defensively up there.

If we add a strong DM, plus Bradley, it frees Macca to move up and shores up our right side in the back.

I want to see Trent in midfield but he is so, so half arsed off the ball.

[Garlic Red]

So spend £60-80m on Gordon to replace Diaz? Sounds like a mad idea. Also, we dont need better than Tsimikas, we need someone as good or better than Robertson.

Signing both would be incredibly stupid by our football club.

Gordon’s a good player, I’m not sure why you’re turning your nose up at him, he ticks almost every box in what we’d want from a player. Aside from being a former blue. Whether we should go out and sign him, I’ve no idea what the market’s looking like, but he wouldn’t be the worst option if Diaz were to leave.

I’ve not really advocated for the signing of Robinson, I think he’s a good player who would add top speed and athleticism to our back line. He’s probably not an upgrade on Andy Robertson but he’d definitely be an upgrade on Tsimikas. I don’t think Robertson’s finished yet so I’m not sure we need an upgrade on him, especially this summer. Tsimikas for me offers next to nothing to the squad so upgrading on him would be fine. Not every signing we make has to be a nailed on first 11 player.

[Chris~]

A starting left back would be nice, but it's absolutely a position you can just plug good players in and get away with it. City have for years, this year Arsenal have been rotating between Zinchenko, Tomiyasu and Kiwor. If there's money and a player we like after we've sorted other priorities than good, otherwise would be fine with us leaving it until next year.

[killer-heels]

Gordon’s a good player, I’m not sure why you’re turning your nose up at him, he ticks almost every box in what we’d want from a player. Aside from being a former blue. Whether we should go out and sign him, I’ve no idea what the market’s looking like, but he wouldn’t be the worst option if Diaz were to leave.

I’ve not really advocated for the signing of Robinson, I think he’s a good player who would add top speed and athleticism to our back line. He’s probably not an upgrade on Andy Robertson but he’d definitely be an upgrade on Tsimikas. I don’t think Robertson’s finished yet so I’m not sure we need an upgrade on him, especially this summer. Tsimikas for me offers next to nothing to the squad so upgrading on him would be fine. Not every signing we make has to be a nailed on first 11 player.

He would be a terrible option. His underlying numbers are not good and he comes with a premium price tag. If we are paying close to £80m then we might as well start shopping in the top tier box.

[Garlic Red]

He would be a terrible option. His underlying numbers are not good and he comes with a premium price tag. If we are paying close to £80m then we might as well start shopping in the top tier box.

What are those underlying numbers?

[Agent99]

For this outfit alone, I'm in. BUY GORDON!

[killer-heels]

What are those underlying numbers?

https://fbref.com/en/players/2bd83368/Anthony-Gordon

[JackWard33]

Agreed. I think we all have to keep in mind that he is just getting used to the pace of this league - he has all the potential in the world.

I wanted to ask you something. Is there any way Trent could work as the outside right of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1? It seems like a good idea to build around our best player and get the most out of him (though you could argue that Macca is our best player bar Allison). We'd want to minimize his defensive responsibilities as much as possible and stress his strengths. I know he'd have to defend from the front, but there would be a lot less pressure on him defensively up there.

If we add a strong DM, plus Bradley, it frees Macca to move up and shores up our right side in the back.

Yeah maybe
I like to have opinions... but honestly with Trent I don't know .. .what you've described might be the best shot - basically you're making him Beckham - but Beckham pressed like a dervish in his pomp.
I think its that or go back to 2019 play him as a nominally starting right back but whose often super high up the pitch with a right midfielder who fills in
He's such an unusual player and its been really complicated by his seeming unwillingness to defend at all these days

[DiggerJohn]

What about defending as a 4-4-2 and very flexible in possession.

So Bradley/Gomez  Konate Virgil Robertson/Gomez
      Trent Bajcetic Mac Díaz
       Salah Jota

[Garlic Red]

https://fbref.com/en/players/2bd83368/Anthony-Gordon

I can read his numbers on FBref, but what’s so bad about them? Are they really that much poorer than Diaz’s? Especially for a 22 year old playing for a mid table side who’ve been hit with some of the worst injuries in the league this season?

His xg/xa is comparable to Mane at Southampton and Jota at Wolves, he’s one of the fastest/most athletic forwards in the league and he can play either flank and up front. If he continues to improve and you factor in the expected level of improvement playing for a top side, he’d ordinarily feature on a lot of people’s lists should Diaz leave. Except he’s a bit of a divvy and a former blue.

[killer-heels]

I can read his numbers on FBref, but what’s so bad about them? Are they really that much poorer than Diaz’s? Especially for a 22 year old playing for a mid table side who’ve been hit with some of the worst injuries in the league this season?

His xg/xa is comparable to Mane at Southampton and Jota at Wolves, he’s one of the fastest/most athletic forwards in the league and he can play either flank and up front. If he continues to improve and you factor in the expected level of improvement playing for a top side, he’d ordinarily feature on a lot of people’s lists should Diaz leave. Except he’s a bit of a divvy and a former blue.

I dont want poorer than Diaz, id want better. And this is in a Newcastle side that have score a lot of goals.

[Garlic Red]

I dont want poorer than Diaz, id want better. And this is in a Newcastle side that have score a lot of goals.

I know but there’s this amazing thing that can happen in football - especially when a player is aged 25 and under - they do this thing called improving, especially when they go from a mid table side to an elite side.

Diaz is currently around 0.65 npxg/xa p90 and that’s him pretty much at peak level playing for the most attacking manager in the league, in a side that gets him plenty of ball and chances

Jota at Wolves was around 0.55/0.56, when he joined us that increased by around 30-50% depending on the season.

Mane at Southampton was similar to Jota, again he massively improved once he made the step up and started to peak.

Gordon’s numbers are great for his age and relative to the level of club he plays for. It’s not unthinkable that he’s outperforming Diaz’s numbers in a couple of years, especially if/when he ends up at a top club.

[RyanBabel19]

Why the fuck is Gordon being discussed

Diving cheat, would cost way more than he’s worth and flat out isn’t coming here. Likely isn’t even being looked at ffs

[killer-heels]

I know but there’s this amazing thing that can happen in football - especially when a player is aged 25 and under - they do this thing called improving, especially when they go from a mid table side to an elite side.

Diaz is currently around 0.65 npxg/xa p90 and that’s him pretty much at peak level playing for the most attacking manager in the league, in a side that gets him plenty of ball and chances

Jota at Wolves was around 0.55/0.56, when he joined us that increased by around 30-50% depending on the season.

Mane at Southampton was similar to Jota, again he massively improved once he made the step up and started to peak.

Gordon’s numbers are great for his age and relative to the level of club he plays for. It’s not unthinkable that he’s outperforming Diaz’s numbers in a couple of years, especially if/when he ends up at a top club.

Thats what your hoping for. The flaw in your argument however is that Gordon will easily cost over £60m and probably in the 70-80m bracket on the hope that he improves. I know prices have gone up but it would be sheer fucking stupidity to spend anywhere near that mark on Gordon.

[Coolie High]

Gordon is a very good player, would be too expensive though.

[Garlic Red]

Why the fuck is Gordon being discussed

Diving cheat, would cost way more than he’s worth and flat out isn’t coming here. Likely isn’t even being looked at ffs

Yeah I can’t see us going for him, just saying ordinarily he’d tick a lot of boxes of what we want from a signing. I can’t see Newcastle selling any of their best players, especially to clubs they want to consider direct rivals.

[killer-heels]

Yeah I can’t see us going for him, just saying ordinarily he’d tick a lot of boxes of what we want from a signing. I can’t see Newcastle selling any of their best players, especially to clubs they want to consider direct rivals.

The box he doesnt tick is not proving much but costing shit loads.

[Garlic Red]

Thats what your hoping for. The flaw in your argument however is that Gordon will easily cost over £60m and probably in the 70-80m bracket on the hope that he improves. I know prices have gone up but it would be sheer fucking stupidity to spend anywhere near that mark on Gordon.

How would it be sheer stupidity?

English players cost more, that’s just a reality we all have to live with. Buying from Premier League clubs is more expensive (unless there’s a clause), it’s another reality we have to live with.

Buying players from Premier League clubs has been just about the sure fire way of guaranteeing a player does well here, aside from Chamberlain, nearly every single player we’ve signed from PL clubs under Klopp has exceeded expectations and hit the ground running. So, if anything, whilst it might be spending more money, there would be significant less risk as there should be less of an adaptation period and the player is already settled in the country.