Author Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted)  (Read 3257336 times)

Offline MonsLibpool

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80680 on: May 15, 2024, 05:13:01 pm »
Ugarte isn't good enough for us. Too sloppy on the ball.

Offline Haggis36

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80681 on: May 15, 2024, 05:21:21 pm »
I disagree, to be honest. There have been so many great sides - and some sides still are - that don’t possess really mobile 6s. For me, it’s more important to have really mobile 8s that can get up and down the pitch, or can get across to support the 6 when he holds play up.

Don’t get me wrong, there have been some really mobile 6s/destroyers over the years, but a lot of them played their best stuff when being played next to a more disciplined player who could anchor the position. Kante’s best came with Jorginho anchoring for him. Mascherano’s best came with Alonso anchoring for him. Rice looks loads better when Jorginho anchors and he can dominate further up the pitch. Even Fabinho at us, whilst he wasn’t immobile in his prime, he was the least mobile of he, Gini and Henderson.

For me, you can get by with a 6 that lacks mobility or recovery pace, if your team remains compact and the spaces he’s covering aren’t impossible. What you can’t get around is if your 6 is your only pessimistic midfielder. Our old midfield weren’t glamorous but they were pessimists, and their collective pessimism with and without the ball enabled us to consistently be compact and in shape, as they knew their roles inside out. All of these things come with age and time, people never admit it but they do. I can remember watching Rodri in his first season or so at City thinking he’d never replace Fernandinho, he was so easy to blow by and looked too slow and immobile. But he wisens up, he improves with coaching and maturity. The same will happen with our lads, Szoboszlai should become more pessimistic with time, same with Jones, Gravenberch and Mac Allister. Signing an elite 6 will help bail them out, but until those players realise you have to earn the right to express yourself and lay the platform for the rest of the team, even an elite 6 will struggle if his teammates aren’t tactically focused for 90 minutes.

I guess there's levels to mobility, or lack thereof, and it also depends on the set-up of the side. You also need to take account of league, the level of the team, etc. It wouldn't be a massive problem to have a somewhat immobile 6 in Italy for instance, but I'm struggling to think of many recent examples in the PL of teams excelling with an immobile DM solely protecting the defence, as it's a fairly big part of their job to be covering runs, dropping in to fill gaps, etc, and that all requires a degree of mobility.

I do think that the change of system we're all expecting might negate the need for the 6 position specifically to be very athletic/mobile, but ultimately I don't think it changes the requirements of generally needing greater athleticism in the team. It's not just about individuals, but the balance. If you accept that Mac Allister is a little on the slow side, I think you need to accept that your other 2 midfielders need to be quick/able to cover more ground, and I think that applies regardless of whether its a 1-2 or 2-1 in midfield. Put it this way, re-arranging Mac and Endo into a double pivot doesn't magically make us better off the ball - we're still going to be second to a lot of balls, and I think if anything that's exacerbated if we return to a more aggressive pressing style, as it's bound to leave gaps which slower players aren't going to be able to cover. Fabinho was never the most mobile, but he was flanked by two players who made entire careers off their work-rate and running power.

Depending on how exactly we plan to set up, I'm not sure we necessarily definitely need a bonafide DM in the way people are thinking (i.e. a spoiler type), but I think we do definitely need a player with great athleticism who can (and wants to) do the defensive work - I'm not sure that describes any of the existing players who could partner Mac in a double pivot - Endo, Gravenberch, Trent - the latter two have decent athleticism, but seemingly no intensity or desire when it comes to the off the ball side of the game. Szoboszlai and Elliott surely aren't going to play in the double pivot. It only really leaves Jones, and whilst he's come on leaps and bounds in his off the ball work, it's still not his natural instinct and he's still fairly inconsistent.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2024, 05:23:50 pm by Haggis36 »

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80682 on: May 15, 2024, 05:47:51 pm »
Teun Koopmeiners, Mohamad Kudus and Ignacio Gongalo mentioned a lot.
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Offline Samie

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80683 on: May 15, 2024, 05:50:03 pm »
You're soo behind the times grandad.  :wave

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80684 on: May 15, 2024, 05:51:29 pm »
You're soo behind the times grandad.  :wave

I wish it was 1987.
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80685 on: May 15, 2024, 05:52:01 pm »
Update me.
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Offline Samie

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80686 on: May 15, 2024, 05:54:51 pm »
Koopmeiners- Doesn't want to leave Italy, Possibly Juve after him too.

Kudus- Buyout clause kicks in next summer

Inacio- Slow as fuck and Slot plays with a Back 4 and he's not played that at Sporting Lisbon.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80687 on: May 15, 2024, 05:56:59 pm »
Koopmeiners- Doesn't want to leave Italy, Possibly Juve after him too.

Kudus- Buyout clause kicks in next summer

Inacio- Slow as fuck and Slot plays with a Back 4 and he's not played that at Sporting Lisbon.

So maybe.
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Offline Garlic Red

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80688 on: May 15, 2024, 06:15:44 pm »
I guess there's levels to mobility, or lack thereof, and it also depends on the set-up of the side. You also need to take account of league, the level of the team, etc. It wouldn't be a massive problem to have a somewhat immobile 6 in Italy for instance, but I'm struggling to think of many recent examples in the PL of teams excelling with an immobile DM solely protecting the defence, as it's a fairly big part of their job to be covering runs, dropping in to fill gaps, etc, and that all requires a degree of mobility.

I do think that the change of system we're all expecting might negate the need for the 6 position specifically to be very athletic/mobile, but ultimately I don't think it changes the requirements of generally needing greater athleticism in the team. It's not just about individuals, but the balance. If you accept that Mac Allister is a little on the slow side, I think you need to accept that your other 2 midfielders need to be quick/able to cover more ground, and I think that applies regardless of whether its a 1-2 or 2-1 in midfield. Put it this way, re-arranging Mac and Endo into a double pivot doesn't magically make us better off the ball - we're still going to be second to a lot of balls, and I think if anything that's exacerbated if we return to a more aggressive pressing style, as it's bound to leave gaps which slower players aren't going to be able to cover. Fabinho was never the most mobile, but he was flanked by two players who made entire careers off their work-rate and running power.

Depending on how exactly we plan to set up, I'm not sure we necessarily definitely need a bonafide DM in the way people are thinking (i.e. a spoiler type), but I think we do definitely need a player with great athleticism who can (and wants to) do the defensive work - I'm not sure that describes any of the existing players who could partner Mac in a double pivot - Endo, Gravenberch, Trent - the latter two have decent athleticism, but seemingly no intensity or desire when it comes to the off the ball side of the game. Szoboszlai and Elliott surely aren't going to play in the double pivot. It only really leaves Jones, and whilst he's come on leaps and bounds in his off the ball work, it's still not his natural instinct and he's still fairly inconsistent.

Nemanja Matic was pretty decent. Palhinha’s a good player and would’ve improved us far more than Endo this season. Jorginho’s had a good season, arguably because he’s playing for a side at its physical peak that limits how much ground he has to cover.

It’s as much about intensity and physicality as it is pace for me. Don’t get me wrong, if you can get pace at the position you do, but I wouldn’t be hamstrung if we didn’t get the fastest 6 about as I think you can make up for it with pace at centre back and at the 8. A good example would be Guimaraes at Newcastle. I think he has all the necessary physical traits needed to play 6 for us, nobody talks about his pace at times because Joelinton provides the running power for that team. Guimaraes sweeps up behind him and usually takes a foul when he can’t keep up. Hopefully one of Jones, Szoboszlai or Gravenberch can go up a few levels defensively (Jones is probably the best of the three defensively) and provide elite athleticism.

Offline Haggis36

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80689 on: May 15, 2024, 07:16:17 pm »
Nemanja Matic was pretty decent. Palhinha’s a good player and would’ve improved us far more than Endo this season. Jorginho’s had a good season, arguably because he’s playing for a side at its physical peak that limits how much ground he has to cover.

It’s as much about intensity and physicality as it is pace for me. Don’t get me wrong, if you can get pace at the position you do, but I wouldn’t be hamstrung if we didn’t get the fastest 6 about as I think you can make up for it with pace at centre back and at the 8. A good example would be Guimaraes at Newcastle. I think he has all the necessary physical traits needed to play 6 for us, nobody talks about his pace at times because Joelinton provides the running power for that team. Guimaraes sweeps up behind him and usually takes a foul when he can’t keep up. Hopefully one of Jones, Szoboszlai or Gravenberch can go up a few levels defensively (Jones is probably the best of the three defensively) and provide elite athleticism.

I agree I don't think it's as simple as pace, but physical gifts in general. You can qualify in numerous ways: straight-line pace over distance, strength, agility, reaction speed, stamina. Whatever it is, the team has been steadily degraded of those qualities over the past few years since we were at our peak, and in my mind it's a big contributor as to why we look so defensively poor and have done for 2 seasons now, and it needs addressed if we're to be successful again.

I also agree, you don't necessarily need all those traits in every single player, but again for me it comes back to balance. Firmino wasn't particularly physically blessed and his game (and what made him so good for us) was never about that, but we can't ignore that he was playing next to probably to two of the best in the world in that regard - I don't think many players could beat Mane/Salah for sheer speed and strength 2017 - 2022. Ditto Fabinho - his game was never about his physical gifts, but he was paired with Gini/Hendo. At our best, when you think back to that "best 11" we had, we maybe fielded what, 2 players who you might describe as a little one-paced, 2 who were perfectly adequate in terms of the physical side of the game but didn't stand out, but then probably 6 spots being filled by players who were incredible athletes - speed, stamina and strength in abundance. Crucially, all of them worked their bollocks off.

I look throughout the squad now, and any given line-up on a matchday, and it's nothing like that. The only forward you could really describe as having any of those physical attributes are Diaz and Nunez, who lack the decision-making/intelligence of their predecessors. In midfield I'm not sure we have any players in that bracket - maybe Dom and Jones? Both are some way short of the physical monsters we've had in yesteryears. Defensively, Robertson and VVD have neither the pace nor stamina they once had, Konate can't stay fit, and Quansah isn't really in the same league physically. We have loads of very talented players, but I can't shake the feeling that they don't really complement one another, and that collectively, we look well short of the physical level required if we're going to go toe-to-toe with Arsenal/City over the coming years.

Offline red1977

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80690 on: May 15, 2024, 08:10:42 pm »
Mats Wieffer.

Would need to bulk up, he is Wieffer thin.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80691 on: May 15, 2024, 08:16:10 pm »
Koopmeiners isn't a defensive midfielder.

Nor is anyone one going to convince me that he’s good enough for us. By that, I mean a first choice starter not a squad option

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80692 on: May 15, 2024, 08:18:18 pm »
I did yeah, but it was quite clear that Arsenal made a move for him early. We should have gone for him in summer 2022.
He'd just had a child and didn't want to leave London. No go for us.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80693 on: May 15, 2024, 08:33:06 pm »
Would need to bulk up, he is Wieffer thin.
Needs to bulk up a bit to play in this league.  He’s weiffer thin.
Keep up, 007 1977  ::)

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Offline amir87

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80695 on: May 15, 2024, 08:58:38 pm »
I wish it was 1987.

Me too, wouldn’t have to clean my own arse.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80696 on: May 15, 2024, 09:00:38 pm »
Lots of spanish papers coming out with news Diaz wants sunny Spain. I'd be content with that mind you. This will be a busy summer.

Offline MonsLibpool

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80697 on: May 15, 2024, 09:09:13 pm »
This Gordon lad is not bad...

Offline DelTrotter

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80698 on: May 15, 2024, 09:10:47 pm »
Lots of spanish papers coming out with news Diaz wants sunny Spain. I'd be content with that mind you. This will be a busy summer.

I'd happily take a nice profilt and chance it that the geeks can find someone better, he does my head in, he's good but will never be world class.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80699 on: May 15, 2024, 09:11:26 pm »
This Gordon lad is not bad...
he is very good
would be brillant at us

Offline meady1981

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80700 on: May 15, 2024, 09:13:31 pm »
This Gordon lad is not bad...

I don’t give a toss he’s played for Everton, I just think he’s a little shit. The complete opposite of the no bellends rule.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80701 on: May 15, 2024, 09:19:55 pm »
Is Gordon like the Isak stuff - people make up that he could be a decent player to sign and that molds into people saying "we are linked right?" to then being "sign him and we are sorted"

All based on forum bollocks

Offline MonsLibpool

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80702 on: May 15, 2024, 09:22:39 pm »
Is Gordon like the Isak stuff - people make up that he could be a decent player to sign and that molds into people saying "we are linked right?" to then being "sign him and we are sorted"

All based on forum bollocks
Journos definitely read RAWK when looking for rumours to write about.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80703 on: May 15, 2024, 09:25:27 pm »
Journos definitely read RAWK when looking for rumours to write about.

I can say for sure there's a less than 1% chance we sign Anthony Gordon

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80704 on: May 15, 2024, 09:30:07 pm »
Gordon is the type of footballer we would go for. Young, on the way up and could get better. He has spoke of his hero’s being stevie g and Salah. However his price is now probably not what we will pay unless Newcastle have to sell for ffp but I can’t see them letting him go for anything below £60 mil..
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80705 on: May 15, 2024, 09:34:29 pm »
FSG want to buy Vasco De  Gama in Brazil.

https://twitter.com/newscolina/status/1790823235522592868

Quote
Fenway Sports Group (FSG), the majority owner of Liverpool's shares, showed interest in acquiring SAF from Vasco.

The American group has already carried out a survey in this regard, as it hinted at the possibility of investing in a multi-club network.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80706 on: May 15, 2024, 09:39:08 pm »
FSG want to buy Vasco De  Gama in Brazil.

https://twitter.com/newscolina/status/1790823235522592868

Are they exploring a deal? Or is there good hope that it is in-dia final stages?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2024, 09:41:59 pm by mikey_LFC »
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Offline Samie

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80707 on: May 15, 2024, 09:41:13 pm »
Early stages but Vasco's owners are 777, who want to buy Everton and need money fast.  ;D

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80708 on: May 15, 2024, 09:43:56 pm »
Early stages but Vasco's owners are 777, who want to buy Everton and need money fast.  ;D
So we could save Everton and they’ll be forever in our debt?
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80709 on: May 15, 2024, 09:54:16 pm »
Something like that.  ;D

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80710 on: May 15, 2024, 10:01:03 pm »
PSG open to selling Ugarte this summer as they don’t really play with a traditional 6. We should be all over that imo.

Looked good at Sporting, and has just turned 23. I'd take a gamble on him, if the price is reasonable ...

Offline Gifted Right Foot

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80711 on: May 15, 2024, 10:29:37 pm »
FSG want to buy Vasco De  Gama in Brazil.

I was not expecting to see Dimitri Payet in their squad when i looked them up. 

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80712 on: May 15, 2024, 10:31:20 pm »
This Gordon lad is not bad...

England have the likes of Palmer and Gordan to call on from the bench. Crazy depth.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80713 on: May 15, 2024, 10:45:13 pm »
I would not mind getting Palmer , but i think he is a red Manc so possibly would not come to us, Gorden is an odd one as he was with us till he was 11 and was released I believe , he is a red though, but would be super expensive, if we did go for him I dare say he would put in a good shift as a supporter.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80714 on: May 15, 2024, 10:59:23 pm »
I would not mind getting Palmer , but i think he is a red Manc so possibly would not come to us, Gorden is an odd one as he was with us till he was 11 and was released I believe , he is a red though, but would be super expensive, if we did go for him I dare say he would put in a good shift as a supporter.

Palmer would cost about £120 million minimum, never happening in a million years

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80715 on: May 15, 2024, 11:16:03 pm »
Palmer obviously won't happen and I wouldn't ever want someone born in Manchester to play for the club.

Gordon's had a good season but he's not the standard required IMO.
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80716 on: May 15, 2024, 11:53:30 pm »
I would prefer if we didn’t bet on signings from the Eredivisie. There’s too much unknown with players from there.

It’s worth mentioning that our best signings have mainly come from the Premier League and Serie A.

People were questioning Serie-A signings a few years ago. It's not about the league. If a player is good enough, he'll be able to show that on the pitch, never mind what league they come from.

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80717 on: May 16, 2024, 12:24:21 am »
Palmer would cost about £120 million minimum, never happening in a million years
He's also just isn't what we need. We have too many players in his position as it is. We need whoever the next Sadio Mane is.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80718 on: May 16, 2024, 02:07:59 am »
People were questioning Serie-A signings a few years ago. It's not about the league. If a player is good enough, he'll be able to show that on the pitch, never mind what league they come from.
Sure, but the risk is far greater in a league like the Eredivisie when the quality overall is clearly worse than the Premier League. Determining whether that talent will translate is really difficult.

In terms of the Eredivisie, I had a post the other day listing out numerous players with high transfer fees from there over the past 5-10 years and I wouldn’t say any of them were obvious successes. It’s extremely risky, especially if someone like Bakayoko will cost €50m+
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted) - No Mbappé
« Reply #80719 on: May 16, 2024, 07:40:49 am »
Sure, but the risk is far greater in a league like the Eredivisie when the quality overall is clearly worse than the Premier League. Determining whether that talent will translate is really difficult.

In terms of the Eredivisie, I had a post the other day listing out numerous players with high transfer fees from there over the past 5-10 years and I wouldn’t say any of them were obvious successes. It’s extremely risky, especially if someone like Bakayoko will cost €50m+

But then again in the past you’ve also had the likes of Suarez, Van Persie, Van Nistelrooy, Robben, Wijnaldum, Eriksen, Vertonghen, Vermaelen, Dembele etc.

We’ve got the best analytics going and that will be able to more accurately predict whether players can bridge the gap than the scouting used by clubs in the past. Whilst there is more difficulty in predicting those who can cope with the leap in quality, the risk is often lower too as the fees are lower for the top talents in the league than they would be for the five leagues ranked higher.
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