Author Topic: FSG discussion thread  (Read 761122 times)

Offline Aldo1988

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14200 on: June 8, 2023, 05:22:11 pm »
So if the Qataris pull out of the United deal, any chance they'll come in for us?
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Offline newterp

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14201 on: June 8, 2023, 05:23:20 pm »
So if the Qataris pull out of the United deal, any chance they'll come in for us?

Hopefully not

Offline Aldo1988

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14202 on: June 8, 2023, 05:24:23 pm »
Hopefully not

Yeah, but, we could buy lots of expensive players and stuff.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14203 on: June 8, 2023, 06:52:05 pm »
So if the Qataris pull out of the United deal, any chance they'll come in for us?


You're obsessed about us getting bought by a state.
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Offline Aldo1988

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14204 on: June 8, 2023, 08:45:01 pm »

You're obsessed about us getting bought by a state.

Obsessed ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: June 8, 2023, 08:49:03 pm by Aldo1988 »
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14205 on: June 8, 2023, 08:56:12 pm »
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14206 on: June 8, 2023, 11:01:54 pm »
They have bought back Melwood for the Women's team and Women's Academy for £13m.

Mingebags.  ::)
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14207 on: June 8, 2023, 11:06:40 pm »
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14208 on: June 8, 2023, 11:22:01 pm »
Mingebags.  ::)
Are they part of the women's team bonus package?
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14209 on: June 9, 2023, 07:51:07 am »
Sold for £10m

With inflation as it currently is that’s probably not a bad deal :D
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14210 on: June 12, 2023, 01:49:25 pm »
Is it assumed no one was interested in funding LFC's rebuild for FSG?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2023, 01:52:42 pm by clinical »
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Offline Aldo1988

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14211 on: June 12, 2023, 01:54:47 pm »
Is it assumed no one was interested in funding LFC's rebuild for FSG?

I was, but they told me to keep my £1.27.
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Offline Peabee

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14212 on: June 12, 2023, 02:34:45 pm »
£3mil wasted more like Samie.

They've saved money on lawnmowing during that time.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14213 on: June 12, 2023, 02:51:05 pm »
Is it assumed no one was interested in funding LFC's rebuild for FSG?

It wouldn't surprise me if any deal is on hold until they see what kind of money United goes for. That will set a new benchmark for Premier League club valuations.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14214 on: June 12, 2023, 04:42:17 pm »
It wouldn't surprise me if any deal is on hold until they see what kind of money United goes for. That will set a new benchmark for Premier League club valuations.
That's likely the case. I also think that United may not be bought before the end of the transfer window, so that clubs don't inflate players prices when they inquire. That may leave the door open for us for Thuram and the likes, but only temporarily, and only if FSG are willing to spend now, literally now.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14215 on: June 12, 2023, 04:43:27 pm »
So if the Qataris pull out of the United deal, any chance they'll come in for us?

More likely Dubai for us.
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Offline clinical

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14216 on: June 12, 2023, 04:43:54 pm »
That's likely the case. I also think that United may not be bought before the end of the transfer window, so that clubs don't inflate players prices when they inquire. That may leave the door open for us for Thuram and the likes, but only temporarily, and only if FSG are willing to spend now, literally now.

Yeah but a mad Qatari paying £6bn for Utd a club he supports isn't the norm and shouldn't be used as a valuation tool.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14217 on: June 12, 2023, 04:46:00 pm »
Yeah but a mad Qatari paying £6bn for Utd a club he supports isn't the norm and shouldn't be used as a valuation tool.
It doesn't look like the Qatari will buy them though.
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Offline Asam

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14218 on: June 12, 2023, 07:04:59 pm »
Is it assumed no one was interested in funding LFC's rebuild for FSG?

Looks like it, easier to raise funds when the team is on the way up or at the summit than when it’s taken a knock

Offline west_london_red

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14219 on: June 12, 2023, 11:05:26 pm »
More likely Dubai for us.

That ship has well and truly sailed, Sheikh Mansor who owns City is the son in law of Sheikh Mohammed who rules Dubai, Sheikh Mohammed is the PM of the UAE, Sheikh Mansor the Deputy PM. Even for the PL that’s a little bit too dodgy looking to ignore I suspect.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14220 on: June 12, 2023, 11:11:46 pm »
How much do you reckon Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs charged us for their services in handling the sale/investment stuff?

Offline west_london_red

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14221 on: June 12, 2023, 11:26:07 pm »
Looks like it, easier to raise funds when the team is on the way up or at the summit than when it’s taken a knock

It plays a part but I don’t think it’s a huge part of the things someone takes into account when investing in a club because it’s such a risky business and success so precarious. A team can be flying high one minute and then a star play gets injured, a manager decides he’s had enough or a Oil Sheikh buys a rival club and you can very soon find your Champions League qualifying club is playing in the Europa League and all of sudden the £500 million you spent for a 20% stake of a club is worth a lot less.
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Offline DangerScouse

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14222 on: June 12, 2023, 11:26:33 pm »
Whatever the fee is, it probably came out of our transfer budget! :P

Offline keyop

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14223 on: June 12, 2023, 11:43:37 pm »
Keyop’s avvin a mare. If you take objection to people in this thread why do you bother reading and posting in it. People are going to have their own opinions, so let them have them. If you don’t like them, then do as you say.. put them on ignore
Just calling out the whoppers and wind-up merchants when I see them. I have plenty on ignore, but some of them post so often (and pick so many arguments, with so many people on multiple threads) that you can't avoid their posts, as others reply to their endless provocation.

There's discussion, and then there's just utter nonsense and trolling. I expected more of the latter in this thread when I started it, but some of the stuff being written is not what I expected to read from genuine Liverpool fans.

It's a discussion forum after all and everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but given the amazing ride we've had under Jurgen (and what's been revealed about the extent of City's cheating), I just can't relate to fans who continually find negatives in everything when there's so much to enjoy.

At least less threads are getting locked now, and much of the toxicity is (mostly) in one place - like a Twitter section within RAWK.
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Offline Dench57

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14224 on: June 13, 2023, 12:30:10 am »
Just calling out the whoppers and wind-up merchants when I see them. I have plenty on ignore, but some of them post so often (and pick so many arguments, with so many people on multiple threads) that you can't avoid their posts, as others reply to their endless provocation.

There's discussion, and then there's just utter nonsense and trolling. I expected more of the latter in this thread when I started it, but some of the stuff being written is not what I expected to read from genuine Liverpool fans.

Come on mate. I don't really post in this thread but I have read most of it and you've repeatedly responded to cogent™ arguments from classycarra, Al and several other posters with nothing but ad-homs and accusations of whoppery or trolling, rather than addressing or refuting their points. Al is most certainly a monomaniacal poster but I've never seen him resort to the kind of insults when challenged, either vague or personal, in the way that you have.

Your default position seems to be that anybody critical of FSG is not "enjoying the ride". I'll speak for pretty much anyone outside of Twitter accounts (actual whoppers!) when I say we've all enjoyed the ride. Jurgen's reign has been the most fun I've ever had supporting Liverpool. Some of us just think that we could, and should have done better from the position we were in a few years ago. Jurgen would be the first person to admit that he could've done better but there's no question in my mind that our drop-off from quite literally the best team in the world, to 5th place with an uncertain future, lies firmly at the feet of our owners.
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Offline clinical

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14225 on: June 13, 2023, 08:28:19 am »
How much do you reckon Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs charged us for their services in handling the sale/investment stuff?

You reckon they charged the club? I wouldn't be surprised.

Be interesting to see if the FSG backers (Like Avens) who agreed FSG have to back Klopp this summer keep to their word and call them out if they don't.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2023, 08:30:54 am by clinical »
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Offline keyop

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14226 on: June 13, 2023, 08:44:00 am »
Come on mate. I don't really post in this thread but I have read most of it and you've repeatedly responded to cogent™ arguments from classycarra, Al and several other posters with nothing but ad-homs and accusations of whoppery or trolling, rather than addressing or refuting their points. Al is most certainly a monomaniacal poster but I've never seen him resort to the kind of insults when challenged, either vague or personal, in the way that you have.

Your default position seems to be that anybody critical of FSG is not "enjoying the ride". I'll speak for pretty much anyone outside of Twitter accounts (actual whoppers!) when I say we've all enjoyed the ride. Jurgen's reign has been the most fun I've ever had supporting Liverpool. Some of us just think that we could, and should have done better from the position we were in a few years ago. Jurgen would be the first person to admit that he could've done better but there's no question in my mind that our drop-off from quite literally the best team in the world, to 5th place with an uncertain future, lies firmly at the feet of our owners.
Cogent arguments? OK   :D

I clearly stated we could've spent more in my OP,  but also said that on balance, we've been managed pretty well. So I'm in agreement with everyone who holds the view that more investment could've helped.

But it's the complete lack of context and perspective that I find puzzling, including massive factors like City, the pandemic, injuries, players seeing out their contracts, the wider footballing landscape, and a multitude of other factors that have contributed to our position.

Being content with what you have shouldn't be seen as accepting mediocrity, or thinking like a small club, or being venturecapitalistwashed, suffering stockholm syndrome, or being against the manager, or any of the other totally mad shouts that've been posted recently. It's about seeing the bigger picture and enjoying the good times instead of endlessly looking for someone to blame, and continually finding fault when we lose or have a bad spell, or disappointing season.

As I've said, at least all the other threads aren't descending into toxic arguments about money and getting locked.

Anyway, I have them on ignore now, so you shall suffer no longer. If you don't like my posts, it's Profile > Modify profile > Buddies/ignore list > Edit ignore list > Add member  :)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2023, 08:46:34 am by keyop »
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14227 on: June 13, 2023, 08:44:25 am »
You reckon they charged the club? I wouldn't be surprised.

Be interesting to see if the FSG backers (Like Avens) who agreed FSG have to back Klopp this summer keep to their word and call them out if they don't.

Note it in your diary to check the accounts in around March 2024 and be sure to bring it up. I’d hate for you to miss a chance to fucking moan.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14228 on: June 13, 2023, 08:52:05 am »
So if the Qataris pull out of the United deal, any chance they'll come in for us?

Well it would be good in a way. I'd be able to happily walk away from football and give my season ticket up and do something marginally less shite :D

If we got bought by a sportswashing bunch of murdering bastards then that would be it for me :)
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14229 on: June 13, 2023, 09:16:41 am »
Just calling out the whoppers and wind-up merchants when I see them. I have plenty on ignore, but some of them post so often (and pick so many arguments, with so many people on multiple threads) that you can't avoid their posts, as others reply to their endless provocation.

There's discussion, and then there's just utter nonsense and trolling. I expected more of the latter in this thread when I started it, but some of the stuff being written is not what I expected to read from genuine Liverpool fans.

It's a discussion forum after all and everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but given the amazing ride we've had under Jurgen (and what's been revealed about the extent of City's cheating), I just can't relate to fans who continually find negatives in everything when there's so much to enjoy.

At least less threads are getting locked now, and much of the toxicity is (mostly) in one place - like a Twitter section within RAWK.

With the greatest respect you accuse other posters of picking arguments and then reply to a four-day-old post and launch what can only be described as a rant. Calling fellow fans whoppers and wind-up merchants just because they raise sensible and rational reservations regarding FSG running of the club over the last three or four years.

To be frank it is what you tend to do. You create a strawman that basically anyone who doesn't support FSG every single time is some spoilt child. A child throwing his toys out of the pram and demanding we are bought by a nation-state, sign every superstar under the sun and sports wash our way to success. When you are continually told that isn't the case. Then you switch to Strawman 2.

If we don't want to be sportswashed then we want to be plunged into a billion pounds of debt. You do that because it is much easier to create strawmen, destroy them and then use that to lampoon your fellow fans.

The reality is that there are a significant number of posters who want neither of your strawmen. We just want the Club to spend its revenues on the football side of the club and not pay for a quarter of a billion pounds in infrastructure that FSG ultimately own. We wanted FSG to plow some of the profit that they generated from the RedBird sale back into the clubs that generated that profit.

Surely it wasn't too much to expect the equity generated on Merseyside to be spent on Merseyside, especially when they leaked that part of the RedBird money would be used to cover COVID losses. Is it really too much to query why the club's revenues were ploughed into the redevelopment of the Main Stand, the new training ground,  the Anfield Road development and the repurchasing of Melwood, at a time when the squad palpably needed fresh investment?

So please forget the strawmen and actually answer the points raised. Even better if you could do it without attacking your fellow fans and accusing them of not enjoying the ride under Jurgen. For me it isn't about not enjoying the ride under Jurgen it is about not wasting a golden once-in-a-lifetime with one of the greatest coaches ever.

Imagine looking back in time and looking at the abject failure to reinforce the defence in 20/21 or the midfield in 22/23. For me Jurgen is almost a cheat code, he adds 15-20% to whatever budget you give him because of his ability as a coach. what we desperately need is for Jurgen to be backed to the hilt, and for us to go to the limits of FFP as a club. Sadly to me at least FSG would rather just use the genius of Klopp to ease back on funding play it safe and watch the value of the club to keep rising. 
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14230 on: June 13, 2023, 09:41:57 am »
With the greatest respect you accuse other posters of picking arguments and then reply to a four-day-old post and launch what can only be described as a rant. Calling fellow fans whoppers and wind-up merchants just because they raise sensible and rational reservations regarding FSG running of the club over the last three or four years.

To be frank it is what you tend to do. You create a strawman that basically anyone who doesn't support FSG every single time is some spoilt child. A child throwing his toys out of the pram and demanding we are bought by a nation-state, sign every superstar under the sun and sports wash our way to success. When you are continually told that isn't the case. Then you switch to Strawman 2.

If we don't want to be sportswashed then we want to be plunged into a billion pounds of debt. You do that because it is much easier to create strawmen, destroy them and then use that to lampoon your fellow fans.

The reality is that there are a significant number of posters who want neither of your strawmen. We just want the Club to spend its revenues on the football side of the club and not pay for a quarter of a billion pounds in infrastructure that FSG ultimately own. We wanted FSG to plow some of the profit that they generated from the RedBird sale back into the clubs that generated that profit.

Surely it wasn't too much to expect the equity generated on Merseyside to be spent on Merseyside, especially when they leaked that part of the RedBird money would be used to cover COVID losses. Is it really too much to query why the club's revenues were ploughed into the redevelopment of the Main Stand, the new training ground,  the Anfield Road development and the repurchasing of Melwood, at a time when the squad palpably needed fresh investment?

So please forget the strawmen and actually answer the points raised. Even better if you could do it without attacking your fellow fans and accusing them of not enjoying the ride under Jurgen. For me it isn't about not enjoying the ride under Jurgen it is about not wasting a golden once-in-a-lifetime with one of the greatest coaches ever.

Imagine looking back in time and looking at the abject failure to reinforce the defence in 20/21 or the midfield in 22/23. For me Jurgen is almost a cheat code, he adds 15-20% to whatever budget you give him because of his ability as a coach. what we desperately need is for Jurgen to be backed to the hilt, and for us to go to the limits of FFP as a club. Sadly to me at least FSG would rather just use the genius of Klopp to ease back on funding play it safe and watch the value of the club to keep rising. 

To be fair you do moan quite a lot. Some of your points have some merit. Some do not.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14231 on: June 13, 2023, 04:14:31 pm »
FSG have it great being owners of Liverpool. We’re the only team in the league who consistently year after year have various reasons as to why we’re working on a tight budget and can’t spend, yet for some reason that’s almost applauded by some of the fan base as a great way to run the club. I wouldn’t invest either. I appreciate they have also done great things for the club but let’s get real for a second, they are really falling behind in what’s required to consistently challenge at the top which is investment into the squad. They hit a golden era between 18-22 where most decent players we signed turned into world beaters thanks to Klopp but it’s rare a team sustains this kind of level. Not just with performances, but with signings too. I’m not asking for Man City level spending, or even against shrewd spending, but it’s frustrating never truly being able to compete in the market with the other teams who are around us on turnover/finance figures each season.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14232 on: June 13, 2023, 04:53:11 pm »
FSG have it great being owners of Liverpool. We’re the only team in the league who consistently year after year have various reasons as to why we’re working on a tight budget and can’t spend, yet for some reason that’s almost applauded by some of the fan base as a great way to run the club. I wouldn’t invest either. I appreciate they have also done great things for the club but let’s get real for a second, they are really falling behind in what’s required to consistently challenge at the top which is investment into the squad. They hit a golden era between 18-22 where most decent players we signed turned into world beaters thanks to Klopp but it’s rare a team sustains this kind of level. Not just with performances, but with signings too. I’m not asking for Man City level spending, or even against shrewd spending, but it’s frustrating never truly being able to compete in the market with the other teams who are around us on turnover/finance figures each season.

Just lobbing money at stuff isn't usually the answer. Plenty of examples of clubs that piss money up the wall every season and are pretty shite - look at United - they are terrible.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14233 on: June 13, 2023, 05:29:04 pm »
You create a strawman that basically anyone who doesn't support FSG every single time is some spoilt child. A child throwing his toys out of the pram and demanding we are bought by a nation-state, sign every superstar under the sun and sports wash our way to success. When you are continually told that isn't the case. Then you switch to Strawman 2.

A great example of this from another poster:

Just lobbing money at stuff isn't usually the answer. Plenty of examples of clubs that piss money up the wall every season and are pretty shite - look at United - they are terrible.

Literally no-one in the thread is advocating for that.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14234 on: June 13, 2023, 05:55:24 pm »
Just lobbing money at stuff isn't usually the answer. Plenty of examples of clubs that piss money up the wall every season and are pretty shite - look at United - they are terrible.

I’ve literally put in my post I’m not asking for a Man City level of spending. Certainly not Chelsea either, but if you look at Man Utd…have they been shit over the last few years? Absolutely. Yet they go and buy Casemiro last summer. Arsenal are adding Declan Rice to their ranks after 6 years of no CL football and spending over £100m on him… one player. Bellingham is supposedly £88m going up to around £130m, but we couldn’t afford him after waiting two years knowing full well what the price would be. We choose not to spend it to prioritise on a rebuild where we spend £35m on McAllister and are already seeing reports of not going for a centre back until we get another midfielder due to money and the fact another midfielder is the priority. Every other team in the top 6 would just go for both and do what it takes to get the targeted player/s. We’re ran like a mid table team when it comes to spending money.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14235 on: June 13, 2023, 06:52:49 pm »
You need to include add-ons, signing bonuses, agent fees, and wages over six years.

The total outlay by Real will reportedly be about 315 million Euros.

LFC were right to walk away when they learned of the demands.

The club should never pay that kind of stupid money for anyone.


« Last Edit: June 13, 2023, 06:55:32 pm by FLRed67 »

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14236 on: June 13, 2023, 06:54:41 pm »
You need to include add-ons, signing bonuses, agent fees, and wages over six years.

The total outlay by Real will reportedly be about 315 million Euros.

LFC should never pay that kind of stupid money for anyone.
Especially for a 19 year old with 14000 minutes under his belt already.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14237 on: June 13, 2023, 07:27:09 pm »
You need to include add-ons, signing bonuses, agent fees, and wages over six years.

The total outlay by Real will reportedly be about 315 million Euros.

LFC were right to walk away when they learned of the demands.

The club should never pay that kind of stupid money for anyone.




You need to look at how much Bellingham will have cost  Madrid in three years time. Amortise his transfer fee over six years. Include how much he will have cost in wages and fees.

Then do the same to Mo's last deal.

Then workout the resale value in three years time and the deals aren't that far apart.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14238 on: June 13, 2023, 09:17:16 pm »
I’ve literally put in my post I’m not asking for a Man City level of spending. Certainly not Chelsea either, but if you look at Man Utd…have they been shit over the last few years? Absolutely. Yet they go and buy Casemiro last summer. Arsenal are adding Declan Rice to their ranks after 6 years of no CL football and spending over £100m on him… one player. Bellingham is supposedly £88m going up to around £130m, but we couldn’t afford him after waiting two years knowing full well what the price would be. We choose not to spend it to prioritise on a rebuild where we spend £35m on McAllister and are already seeing reports of not going for a centre back until we get another midfielder due to money and the fact another midfielder is the priority. Every other team in the top 6 would just go for both and do what it takes to get the targeted player/s. We’re ran like a mid table team when it comes to spending money.

Everyone is different obviously, but I like the fact that we have a great scouting system. I can't recall us ever really being a massive spending club over the years. If you take the Premier League years then Liverpool were only the top spenders twice (1999/2000 and 2007/2008) - https://www.football365.com/news/the-biggest-spender-in-every-pl-season-and-how-they-fared

Even in our heydays in the 80s I seem to remember us bsing fairly frugal - relying on great scouting, great player development and bringing home grown players through the ranks.

Even if you look at this list, Liverpool only appear on the list once for record transfer fees ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progression_of_the_British_football_transfer_fee_record )

My point is that I'd much rather we scouted well, brought the players through and developed our up and coming youth players well - while also picking up bargains

I'm fairly happy with the investment we've had and all the signs are that we are going to bring a few players in and it's been a great start with our first top signing - really impressed with this lad.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #14239 on: June 13, 2023, 09:21:47 pm »
You need to look at how much Bellingham will have cost  Madrid in three years time. Amortise his transfer fee over six years. Include how much he will have cost in wages and fees.

Then do the same to Mo's last deal.

Then workout the resale value in three years time and the deals aren't that far apart.

This is exactly what I’m talking about, thank you for putting it across so well.

We’re dissecting the entire outlay of money over a player during his potential time at the club  and trying to justify why it’s not worth it, it’s just insane. The bottom line is we have a limit of what we are willing to spend for transfers and it’s way below what a team of Liverpools stature should be willing to invest in transfers & wages. We have won everything there is to win lately and are consistently in the top 3 clubs for revenue yet our net spend reflects a mid table team or worse.
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