Topic: PL: Liverpool 3 v Brighton 3 Trossard 4', 17', 83', Bobby 33', 52', Webster 62'

[killer-heels]

Our supposed first choice midfield of Thiago, Henderson and Fabinho played two matches this season and in terms of being out played as a unit the games against Fulham and Brighton were probably the worst, or least some of it, with Napoli standing way out on its own.

[killer-heels]

Read a few stats on this game and they are not pretty, we gave away an insane amount of good chances and shots to Brighton and they beat us on the xG. We did play pretty well going forward though but on another day we maybe lose that 4 or 5-3.

As I said before though, we really have to credit the team for the heart and fight it showed. It never gave up despite taking some significant blows.

[decosabute]

Yep they're out in force, and many of them were nowhere to be seen on post match threads last season when we were winning almost every week in 4 competitions.

Funny that.

Oldest and most tiresome type of post on RAWK.

What's there to discuss when we've won our 8th game in a row or whatever? I mean, sometimes I'd come on and single a player out for particular praise, but really there's nothing to say except "we're great". No need to pinpoint reasons, no need to get to the bottom of it. Everyone is happy, there's nothing that needs changing, and therfore nothing to discuss.

When the house is on fire though - which it is now, especially as the different excuses and mitigation have faded away - people want to talk/argue/rant to get to the bottom of why that is. The very obvious difference between the two situations is that no one needs to figure out why we're great to help their own sanity. Right now everyone is hurting because the season is unexpectedly turning into a fiasco and people are trying to figure out why. Sometimes it oversteps the mark, but mostly it's people dealing with the disappointment and wondering where we've gone wrong.

Is it so hard to understand that?

[Cormack Snr]

We were the best team on the planet a few years ago, penny pinching has fucked us. Milner coming on and Henderson going off sums us up. Both should have been in the past years ago..

[Historical Fool]

It is clear as day that you are only saying that because you are a fellow undercover mod.

An admission after all these years.

[decosabute]

Look, can you recognise the nuance in what I am saying. I am not saying that bellingham today is better than peak Gerrard. He does undoubtedly has a more complete range of skills than Gerrard did at his age though and has a higher ceiling than even Gerrard.  Will he be as good a player at his peak? That is not known for certain yet.

You can rationalise what you wrote all you want, but I'm sorry to say it came across as FIFA/Football Manager generation bullshit.

Bellingham is a great young player, but it's ludicrous to talk about him having a higher ceiling than two of the best midfielders there have ever been in the league. Not saying it's impossible he'll end up being in their class, but to state it like it's fact that his ceiling is higher based on a couple of years in the Bundesliga (where Henrikh Mikhtaryan looked an absolute world beater) is nonsense.

[Passmaster Molby]

Our 3-man midfield just doesn't have the legs and energy to cover the defence anymore. Peak Fabinho/Henderson/Wijnaldum were absolutely essential to how we played, but that industry isn't there now. Asking Henderson/Fabinho/Thiago to do the same job now is just folly - they can't do it.

We either need to get new players in to do that industrious work OR change the set up to bring more defensive help into midfield by maybe bringing a 4th one in and going say 4-4-2. That way you aren't asking 3 midfielders to cover the whole width of the pitch and exposing our sides (especially Trent's given his free role)

[redbyrdz]

Our 3-man midfield just doesn't have the legs and energy to cover the defence anymore. Peak Fabinho/Henderson/Wijnaldum were absolutely essential to how we played, but that industry isn't there now. Asking Henderson/Fabinho/Thiago to do the same job now is just folly - they can't do it.

We either need to get new players in to do that industrious work OR change the set up to bring more defensive help into midfield by maybe bringing a 4th one in and going say 4-4-2. That way you aren't asking 3 midfielders to cover the whole width of the pitch and exposing our sides (especially Trent's given his free role)

Maybe Bajcetic and Fabinho as a double 6. Instead of playing Elliot or Carvalho in an AM role, fix the DM because it's not there.

[Fromola]

Maybe Bajcetic and Fabinho as a double 6. Instead of playing Elliot or Carvalho in an AM role, fix the DM because it's not there.

It's getting to 20/21 levels where we had to put Nat Phillips and then Rhys Williams at the back just to provide some balance and a semblance of solidity. Obviously brought up on by an injury crisis but we did that and Klopp admitted he should have done it sooner. We then had to our adapt our tactics somewhat and drop the line back after we were constantly losing games by getting done over the top on the counter.

The problems are the same now but stemming from midfield, so we need to shore the midfield up as much as we can. We can rely on the forwards to score a goal or 2 but needing to score 4 to win at home because we've got no midfield, or relying on Ali to keep the score down (but still defend on the halfway line), is not sustainable. 

We need to go back to basics and change our approach until the World Cup. Teams are enjoying playing against us, when we used to be the most difficult 90 minutes teams would face.

[NaivetyinBlack]

Have we conceded any goal from open play as a progression on our left side ?

Midfield recruitment, FSG penny pinching, players being tired, reinvention season and a thousand other excuses when all teams are doing is attacking our right side. Cut out the individual mistakes, do the basics right, bench Trent. We will be alright.

[ThePoolMan]

You can rationalise what you wrote all you want, but I'm sorry to say it came across as FIFA/Football Manager generation bullshit.

Bellingham is a great young player, but it's ludicrous to talk about him having a higher ceiling than two of the best midfielders there have ever been in the league. Not saying it's impossible he'll end up being in their class, but to state it like it's fact that his ceiling is higher based on a couple of years in the Bundesliga (where Henrikh Mikhtaryan looked an absolute world beater) is nonsense.

It is possible to see a players potential even at 19. I recall back when Gerrard emerged, it was pretty evident even when he started in the first team as a right back that he was special and had a ceiling as the complete midfield player that had never seen before.  I see the same vibes with bellingham except to perhaps an even greater degree.

Very experienced professionals and joirnalists are saying similar things...

David alaba said "As for Bellingham as a player, I can say that he is one of the greatest midfield talents in the world..."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.goal.com/en/amp/news/huge-bellingham-praise-from-alaba-as-he-says-dortmund-star-s/blta9e43ca9dd61bf71

Jordan Henderson said "“When I watch him, he plays with such maturity even now. The sky is the limit for him really.”"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thisisanfield.com/2022/03/the-sky-is-the-limit-jordan-henderson-takes-jude-bellingham-charm-offensive/amp/

Jota said of him "‘He is such a good player. I think he will be one of the greatest players in the future.’"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2022/04/22/liverpool-diogo-jota-talks-up-jurgen-klopp-target-jude-bellingham-16518703/amp/

Ally mccoist "He’s an incredible talent. Talking about £80m? Crikey it’s incredible. I agree with Gab, I think he’s an immense player who will certainly boost Liverpool. He’s a magical talent and he will develop into a superb player.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport.com/football/939689/jude-bellingham-liverpool-gerrard-transfer-borussia-dortmund/amp/

Guillem Balague ""There is no doubt in two or three years we will be talking about one of the top five players in the world..."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/62999298

[ThePoolMan]

Maybe Bajcetic and Fabinho as a double 6. Instead of playing Elliot or Carvalho in an AM role, fix the DM because it's not there.

Bench fabinho and  try to play bajcetic with thiago.  We don't have many options right now but we have to do something different.

[keyop]

the main reason for my thinking is the world cup. Has a potential to be a real game changer. could easily see teams like City, united, chelsea and Arsenal who will have a lot of players heavily involved going into a slump after playing a tournament in extremely warm conditions in the middle east. Its the AFCON multiplied imo.

Us, on the other hand, wont have many involved and this could well work in our favour. out of our squad who is going to be heavily involved?

Alisson- will likely start in goals for Brazil.
Robertson- didnt qualify
Van Dijk-will start for Holland obviously and from looking at the groups should play until the last 16 at least
Matip-Retired
Konate-Probably wont make the France squad.
Trent-may not make the england squad and if he does, he probably wont start.
Henderson-Will make the england squad but amazingly he probably wont start and will play back up to Declan Rice. who needs leadership eh. good for us though.
Thiago-not sure he will make the squad. hasnt in a while and if he does, probably wont play much.
Elliott-very unllikely to make England squad.
Fabinho-Will make the Brazil squad but likely to be  back up
Diaz-didnt qualify
Jota-Will play for Portugal.
Nunez-will play for Uruguay
Salah-didnt qualify
Firmino-may make squad but will be a back up most likely
Keita-didnt qualify
Jones-Wont make england squad.

thats 4 players including the goalkeeper who will likely start games for their respective countries.

I too was hoping the WC might be a leveller this season, but as KH said in another thread - that's what makes our slow start so frustrating, as we haven't been able to keep pace and get the points on the board that we needed before November.

After last seasons herculean efforts, the unexpected break we've just had was the perfect reset opportunity, but as we saw yesterday our problems look as much psychological and systemic as they do physical or fitness. Signings may well have helped, but the biggest mistake has been the pre-season tour and intensity after such a gruelling season - the commercial obligations shooting us in the foot when the players needed time relaxing with family and friends, and getting last season out of their minds and bodies. The period between the CL final and our opening PL game gave the players and coaching staff very little rest to recover and reflect on last season, and we've clearly carried that burden into this season like a heavy rucksack.

The WC may well change things in our favour, but we're running out of time to get the points on the board that we'd need to capitalise from December onwards. There's no guarantee that the WC will see teams come back tired, but there's a strong possibility, plus also injury risk due to heat and tiredness. For comparison, City's likely commitments are:

Ederson - will travel with Brazil/might play
Walker - will probably get some games for England
Stones - will probably get some games for England
Laporte - will play for Spain
Ake - may get some games with Holland
Cancelo - will play for Portugal
Dias - will play for Portugal
De Bruyne - will play for Belgium
Silva - will play for Portugal
Rodri - will play for Spain
Gundogan - will play for Germany
Phillips - will probably get some games for England
Grealish - will play for England
Foden - will play for England
Alvarez - will probably get some games for Argentina
Mahrez - Algeria didn't qualify
Haaland - Norway didn't qualify

That's 15 players that are likely to be at the WC, most of who will get games, and many who are first choice for countries likely to go far. This really was the perfect opportunity to go toe to toe with them for the first few months, then hopefully capitalise in the second half of the season.

[TSC]

Look, can you recognise the nuance in what I am saying. I am not saying that bellingham today is better than peak Gerrard. He does undoubtedly has a more complete range of skills than Gerrard did at his age though and has a higher ceiling than even Gerrard.  Will he be as good a player at his peak? That is not known for certain yet.

Can you see the contradiction in the above post?  ‘he does undoubtedly have a more complete range of skills than Gerrard did at his age though and has a higher ceiling than Gerrard’.

Not much room for nuance there.

[Clint Eastwood]

Zero point comparing our situation to City right now. They’ll walk the league, we just need to ensure we don’t miss out on top 4. Arsenal and Spurs look good, United are finally finding some form, Chelsea are there too.

I’m finding this more worrying than 20/21. At least we had some mitigating circumstances then. Seeing the likes of Virgil, Fabinho, Henderson, Salah, Robertson and Trent playing they way they are is concerning.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

Exactly.

The main things Brighton did were to have almost parity in terms of possession and to drag our midfield out of shape.

Both of those things happened as a result of pushing the two outer centre backs wide when they played out from the back.

Against two centre backs and a keeper our front three can force a team to play down one side of the pitch. We can then overload that side. Brighton stopped us doing that because instead of Bobby pressing either the left or right centre back he was forced to press Dunk who then had two options.

Think we really need to play a 3-4-3, with Trent and Tsimikas on either side. That way we can press with 5 up the field, and eliminate the problem of getting outnumbered when the fullbacks move up. Giving up the wings is no problem for me, I think we need to improve our compactness throughout the pitch. Our midfield is not particularly mobile right now, meanwhile we have centerbacks who are. We would do well to have the midfielders pack the areas in the middle which also allows for more options to play through the middle of the pitch. Thiago and Fabinho there would wonders, especially the former as I find he’s constantly dragged out wide defending which lessens his effectiveness. The wide centerbacks, possibly Konate and Matip, will offer a more complete aerial presence on set plays yet allow better coverage in the box when the opponent packs it with numbers.

With Konate back now, think it’s a perfect time to give it a go.

[killer-heels]

I too was hoping the WC might be a leveller this season, but as KH said in another thread - that's what makes our slow start so frustrating, as we haven't been able to keep pace and get the points on the board that we needed before November.

After last seasons herculean efforts, the unexpected break we've just had was the perfect reset opportunity, but as we saw yesterday our problems look as much psychological and systemic as they do physical or fitness. Signings may well have helped, but the biggest mistake has been the pre-season tour and intensity after such a gruelling season - the commercial obligations shooting us in the foot when the players needed time relaxing with family and friends, and getting last season out of their minds and bodies. The period between the CL final and our opening PL game gave the players and coaching staff very little rest to recover and reflect on last season, and we've clearly carried that burden into this season like a heavy rucksack.

The WC may well change things in our favour, but we're running out of time to get the points on the board that we'd need to capitalise from December onwards. There's no guarantee that the WC will see teams come back tired, but there's a strong possibility, plus also injury risk due to heat and tiredness. For comparison, City's likely commitments are:

Ederson - will travel with Brazil/might play
Walker - will probably get some games for England
Stones - will probably get some games for England
Laporte - will play for Spain
Ake - may get some games with Holland
Cancelo - will play for Portugal
Dias - will play for Portugal
De Bruyne - will play for Belgium
Silva - will play for Portugal
Rodri - will play for Spain
Gundogan - will play for Germany
Phillips - will probably get some games for England
Grealish - will play for England
Foden - will play for England
Alvarez - will probably get some games for Argentina
Mahrez - Algeria didn't qualify
Haaland - Norway didn't qualify

That's 15 players that are likely to be at the WC, most of who will get games, and many who are first choice for countries likely to go far. This really was the perfect opportunity to go toe to toe with them for the first few months, then hopefully capitalise in the second half of the season.

^

Thing is now that I am now worried about the world cup itself and the break. Klopp said that we couldnt carry on the rhythm following our win vs Ajax. Now, if at some point we get some form back then that break could mess that up.

I thought the breaks would help but they dont seem to. What we need to do is really go on a run of form and wrack up as many wins as we can right now, which isnt going to be easy considering the difficulty of the games.

[ThePoolMan]

Can you see the contradiction in the above post?  ‘he does undoubtedly have a more complete range of skills than Gerrard did at his age though and has a higher ceiling than Gerrard’.

Not much room for nuance there.

There is no contradiction in what I was saying. I was clearly saying I believe he has a higher ceiling and potential than Gerrard did at his age but whether he gets there in the end to be as good as peak Gerrard remains to be seen. That was what I was saying and that is still what I am saying.

[killer-heels]

There is no contradiction in what I was saying. I was clearly saying I believe he has a higher ceiling and potential than Gerrard did at his age but whether he gets there in the end to be as good as peak Gerrard remains to be seen. That was what I was saying and that is still what I am saying.

He doesnt, but ok.

[Bembo10]

We were the best team on the planet a few years ago, penny pinching has fucked us. Milner coming on and Henderson going off sums us up. Both should have been in the past years ago..

Contradiction there. “We were the best team a few years ago” and Milner and Henderson should have been in the past years ago. “ both being absolutely praised to the hilt on here in the last year.

[TSC]

There is no contradiction in what I was saying. I was clearly saying I believe he has a higher ceiling and potential than Gerrard did at his age but whether he gets there in the end to be as good as peak Gerrard remains to be seen. That was what I was saying and that is still what I am saying.

Well using the term ‘I believe’ is different to using the word ‘undoubtedly’.

Anyway if this Bellingham is as good as you believe he’ll end up at city, simply because they have no apparent ceiling on transfer fees.

[ThePoolMan]

Well using the term ‘I believe’ is different to using the word ‘undoubtedly’.

Anyway if this Bellingham is as good as you believe he’ll end up at city, simply because they have no apparent ceiling on transfer fees.

Since we r talking about potential, there is always an element of faith in the equation. Bellingham is so good however that if he gets anywhere near his ceiling, he will already be some player. Again he reminds me of how good Gerrard looked when he broke through. He wss so good it was almost a sure thing he would become a great.

[Coolie High]

Fuck if I know or care but people are strange. Nothing would surprise me. Just what I’ve seen people get infracted or banned here for in a lot of ways pales in comparison to the conspiracy theory rantings of Al. Doesn’t add up for me.

Al is a good poster he hasn’t done anything ban worthy.

[keyop]

Oldest and most tiresome type of post on RAWK.

What's there to discuss when we've won our 8th game in a row or whatever? I mean, sometimes I'd come on and single a player out for particular praise, but really there's nothing to say except "we're great". No need to pinpoint reasons, no need to get to the bottom of it. Everyone is happy, there's nothing that needs changing, and therfore nothing to discuss.

When the house is on fire though - which it is now, especially as the different excuses and mitigation have faded away - people want to talk/argue/rant to get to the bottom of why that is. The very obvious difference between the two situations is that no one needs to figure out why we're great to help their own sanity. Right now everyone is hurting because the season is unexpectedly turning into a fiasco and people are trying to figure out why. Sometimes it oversteps the mark, but mostly it's people dealing with the disappointment and wondering where we've gone wrong.

Is it so hard to understand that?

That's not true though is it?

There's been plenty of games in recent seasons where we've played poorly and won, or made mistakes but gotten away with it. There's been plenty of discussion points and areas to debate even during long winning streaks. There's been some great points made and discussions had on post-match or player threads when we've been at our best.

The reality is many posters only come out when things are going badly, as the narrative or negativity they want to push can't be aired when things are good. I can guarantee many of the mood hoovers in this particular thread will completely disappear when we next go on a good run.

[Jools]

We were the best team on the planet a few years ago, penny pinching has fucked us. Milner coming on and Henderson going off sums us up. Both should have been in the past years ago..

I agree, this team peaked two seasons ago and since then it's been a patch up job to try and keep us afloat

[Redric1970]

I honestly don’t know how some fans didn’t see this coming, yesterday we started with 6 players in there 30s, we then brought on a 37 year old sub, and that doesn’t include ox and kieta who might aswell be in there 50s. Our brilliant team has got old, I would and have never ever had a pop at our players I would never do that I will always support whoever wears the shirt but our owners have fucked up massively through not buying and bringing the average age of the team down, there is absolutely no excuse for ending up in this mess at a time when we are about to reveal record turnover and you could arguably say the club was as attractive a destination as any club in the world. I don’t buy into the bullshit about a new training ground and anfield road stand, Fulham have built a new stand, spurs a new stadium, Leicester the most expensive training ground ever built, Everton a new stadium yet somehow without champions league football they all miraculously outspend us absolute bullshit. We have the best manager in world football and I wouldn’t swap him for anyone but he can only do so much when we have just had arguably had one of our most lucrative periods in football (minus Covid) and still can’t spend questions need to be asked of the owners. I’m a firefighter and have been for 22 years and it’s really strange but I have had 2 shoulder ops and a knee op through wear and tear and hard graft, we have the oldest first team in the league and fans are surprised some of our 30 year old players are looking leggy. And I called this before the season started so this isn’t just on the back of poor results.

And if and it’s now a big possibility we don’t make top 4 if you think the Owners will get the wallet out don’t hold your breath, but don’t worry we reached the final Last year and will announce record turnover and have spent £4mil net so our net spending won’t change much.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Can you see the contradiction in the above post?  ‘he does undoubtedly have a more complete range of skills than Gerrard did at his age though and has a higher ceiling than Gerrard’.

Not much room for nuance there.

Aye, he simply doesn't have that same breadth of skills and ceiling because he lacks the pure speed peak Gerrard had. Bellingham is mobile, covers ground well, not more than that. If anything he plays like a defensively strong Juan Riquelme with his desire to take touches on the ball and work it, drift wide from centre, be a playmaker. He can't play on the wing the way Gerrard could.

[ThePoolMan]

That's not true though is it?

There's been plenty of games in recent seasons where we've played poorly and won, or made mistakes but gotten away with it. There's been plenty of discussion points and areas to debate even during long winning streaks. There's been some great points made and discussions had on post-match or player threads when we've been at our best.

The reality is many posters only come out when things are going badly, as the narrative or negativity they want to push can't be aired when things are good. I can guarantee many of the mood hoovers in this particular thread will completely disappear when we next go on a good run.

If everything is going well, everybody is happy and if it ain't broken there is nothing to fix, right? So there isn't any agenda to ventilate because everything is hunky dory and we are marching along as planned.

Instead of making ad hominem attacks on posters who don't agree with you and question their motives, it is far more productive to just stick to the merits of what we are discussing. Otherwise two can play the same game and those trying to shut down criticism can be accused of being pro-FSG facilitators...questioning others motives is a double edged sword that also cuts the other direction too.

[Jools]

With this month's coming fixture pile up it's going to be interesting how we are come November.

[killer-heels]

With this month's coming fixture pile up it's going to be interesting how we are come November.

Yep its scary to think the points we may have but at the end, amongst all the discussion and criticism, we have to remember this is a legendary squad and manager and have to enjoy it. Either we get back our form or realise we have to start the process of dismantling and producing a new side. Either way its exciting.

[decosabute]

It is possible to see a players potential even at 19. I recall back when Gerrard emerged, it was pretty evident even when he started in the first team as a right back that he was special and had a ceiling as the complete midfield player that had never seen before.  I see the same vibes with bellingham except to perhaps an even greater degree.

Very experienced professionals and joirnalists are saying similar things...

David alaba said "As for Bellingham as a player, I can say that he is one of the greatest midfield talents in the world..."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.goal.com/en/amp/news/huge-bellingham-praise-from-alaba-as-he-says-dortmund-star-s/blta9e43ca9dd61bf71

Jordan Henderson said "“When I watch him, he plays with such maturity even now. The sky is the limit for him really.”"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thisisanfield.com/2022/03/the-sky-is-the-limit-jordan-henderson-takes-jude-bellingham-charm-offensive/amp/

Jota said of him "‘He is such a good player. I think he will be one of the greatest players in the future.’"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2022/04/22/liverpool-diogo-jota-talks-up-jurgen-klopp-target-jude-bellingham-16518703/amp/

Ally mccoist "He’s an incredible talent. Talking about £80m? Crikey it’s incredible. I agree with Gab, I think he’s an immense player who will certainly boost Liverpool. He’s a magical talent and he will develop into a superb player.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport.com/football/939689/jude-bellingham-liverpool-gerrard-transfer-borussia-dortmund/amp/

Guillem Balague ""There is no doubt in two or three years we will be talking about one of the top five players in the world..."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/62999298

But no one is saying you can't see potential. It's just this "higher ceiling than Gerrard and DeBruyne" nonsense. You could say he might be the next one of them. MIGHT be. But to just state as fact that he's projecting as being even better is reaching in a ridiculous way.

[Rodneyhide]

Just a quick question, what's the atmosphere like at games at the minute? Difficult to tell watching the television. It seems flat but can be deceiving

[Pistolero]

It is possible to see a players potential even at 19. I recall back when Gerrard emerged, it was pretty evident even when he started in the first team as a right back that he was special and had a ceiling as the complete midfield player that had never seen before.  I see the same vibes with bellingham except to perhaps an even greater degree.

Very experienced professionals and joirnalists are saying similar things...

David alaba said "As for Bellingham as a player, I can say that he is one of the greatest midfield talents in the world..."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.goal.com/en/amp/news/huge-bellingham-praise-from-alaba-as-he-says-dortmund-star-s/blta9e43ca9dd61bf71

Jordan Henderson said "“When I watch him, he plays with such maturity even now. The sky is the limit for him really.”"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thisisanfield.com/2022/03/the-sky-is-the-limit-jordan-henderson-takes-jude-bellingham-charm-offensive/amp/

Jota said of him "‘He is such a good player. I think he will be one of the greatest players in the future.’"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2022/04/22/liverpool-diogo-jota-talks-up-jurgen-klopp-target-jude-bellingham-16518703/amp/

Ally mccoist "He’s an incredible talent. Talking about £80m? Crikey it’s incredible. I agree with Gab, I think he’s an immense player who will certainly boost Liverpool. He’s a magical talent and he will develop into a superb player.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport.com/football/939689/jude-bellingham-liverpool-gerrard-transfer-borussia-dortmund/amp/

Guillem Balague ""There is no doubt in two or three years we will be talking about one of the top five players in the world..."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/62999298

can we move this discussion into the 'Another player who we're not going to sign' thread?....


cheers


mitch

[ThePoolMan]

Aye, he simply doesn't have that same breadth of skills and ceiling because he lacks the pure speed peak Gerrard had. Bellingham is mobile, covers ground well, not more than that. If anything he plays like a defensively strong Juan Riquelme with his desire to take touches on the ball and work it, drift wide from centre, be a playmaker. He can't play on the wing the way Gerrard could.

I dont think gerrard js necessarily any faster thna bellingham is though he may APPEAR faster because of his more all action style with arms and feet pumping like a train reaching top speed. Bellingham doesn't appear to be very fast because of a languid looking style of play that comes form the fsct tbta he makes everything look easier than it actually is. However he is pretty fast for a central midfielder  - the bundesliga clocks his top recorded speed to be 33.16 km/h. That is only about 3 km/h  slower than the likes of Nunez who is probably the fastest player we have currently.

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/player/jude-bellingham

As for him being supposedly not as versatile as Gerrard, he can play any position in central midfield but sees himself as ideally being the same no. 8 position that Gerrard was at his peak.

As for him being supposedly unable to play on the wing, Bellingham played 5 times on the wing last season for dortmund and created 5 scoring opportunities...

https://twitter.com/TheRealChampsFS/status/1534286328111812608

Bellingham is the nearest player who has appeared to Steven Gerrard since Gerrard himself retired...

[Redric1970]

I just had a conversation with my arsenal supporting friend and he agrees with the point I made, in the last 4 years without champions league football they have spent net just under £400mil compared to our £90mil with massive champions league revenue. Now they aren’t owned by an oil state, our manager has worked bloody miracles but our team is now the oldest in the league and lack of investment has caught up with us.

[DelTrotter]

Gerrard was shit and Bellingham is the goat. We get it. Soooo Liverpool 3 Brighton 3.....

[ThePoolMan]

But no one is saying you can't see potential. It's just this "higher ceiling than Gerrard and DeBruyne" nonsense. You could say he might be the next one of them. MIGHT be. But to just state as fact that he's projecting as being even better is reaching in a ridiculous way.

Firstly I never mentioned de Bruyne at all as a comparison.   Secondly since you agree that Bellingham might turn out evne better than Gerrard, how is that any different from what I am saying? I am saying he has a higher potential than Gerrard but whether he fulfils it or not is unknown. It seems to me there is little difference in substance between what u r saying and what I am saying.

[redk84]

So i didn't watch the match...

but i saw live commentary from a whatsapp group and it wasn't pretty reading.

Sounded like our issues have carried over beyond this rest period, so now we have some tough games incoming and not sure what to expect. However, the league seems a bit far fetched now so important thing is to secure CL progression and stay as close to the top as possible, hoping for fuckups above


We need to start playing well again and looking/feeling more comfortable on the pitch.
We are a bag of nerves at the moment and it is causing indecision and this self-fulfilling prophecy of always going behind has gone on too long

[ThePoolMan]

I just had a conversation with my arsenal supporting friend and he agrees with the point I made, in the last 4 years without champions league football they have spent net just under £400mil compared to our £90mil with massive champions league revenue. Now they aren’t owned by an oil state, our manager has worked bloody miracles but our team is now the oldest in the league and lack of investment has caught up with us.

All the more reasonable for fsg to  whip the cheque book out and start putting the money where their mout h is and sign whoever the transfer team and manager want to replenish the midfield.

[RedBec1993]

I still can't bring myself to give up on the title after 7 games. Let's just win our next 7 league games (which will take us up to the world cup) and then see where we're at.

A comment like this makes me feel a lot better to be honest. I’m quite the optimist myself when it comes to Liverpool, even I am a tad like a defeatist atm. But can definitely get on board with what you’re saying.