Topic: Do you support the strikes?

[PaulF]

Apologies if there's already a thread for this but I can't see it.
 Just curious on how you folks see it?  I did a bit of digging behind the headline figures on salaries but I'm not sure if it's mostly about that or more about protecting jobs.

[spen71]

Apologies if there's already a thread for this but I can't see it.
 Just curious on how you folks see it?  I did a bit of digging behind the headline figures on salaries but I'm not sure if it's mostly about that or more about protecting jobs.

From what I’ve been read it’s a bit of both.     A
Pay rise and to protect jobs

[PaulF]

From what I’ve been read it’s a bit of both.     A
Pay rise and to protect jobs

It's always hard to tell. Often it feels like pay is the main issue, but they wrap in job protection to make it seem more paletable.

[killer-heels]

Yes.

[lobsterboy]

Yes.
Wholeheartedly.
More billionaires than ever while the country is broke.
Tells us all what's going on.

[gazzalfc]

Was listening to James O'Brien last week and I think he said it well

'If you support all strikes you're an idiot and if you don't support any strikes then you're an idiot.'

This particular strike is a huge pain in the arse. I cannot physically get to work tomorrow and Thursday so have been forced to take them as holiday days. I understand people who can't get to work, hospital, schools exams, Glastonbury etc are going to be massively inconvenienced. 

The tories playbook in this is going exactly how they planned. Pit worker against worker. SUMMER OF DISCONTENT, MILLITANT LEFTIE UNIONS ROLLING IN CASH, TRAIN DRIVERS GET PAID MORE THAN NURSES!!!!

I am part of a union. My pay deals are collectively bargained. My pay deals have always been below inflation. But I dont think I would ever strike exclusively over pay. I have gone out on strike once but that was over our pensions.

So I do support this rail strike as it is down to an attack on working conditions of rail "workers" (Not drivers but guards, cleaners, signallers, ticket office staff and support workers) and a pay rise (they are currently working under a pay freeze).

[Elzar]

Was meant to be in Birmingham for a conference this week, but had to cancel and imagine the things going to have half as many people there.

I support it though.

[rob1966]

Having read up on why the strikes are taking place, yes I do support the strikes.

This fucking government has wasted/stolen billions from the taxpayer and the country, so them and anyone who votes for them can get to fuck complaining about the strikes.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

It's a personal pain in the arse for me, but I support them

[McSquared]

100%.

[KillieRed]

Absolutely, even before the cost of living crisis we`ve had years of austerity where many of us are essentially doing the same job (or more) for less pay in real terms.

I don`t use trains much, but the service can be shocking and it`s down to underinvestment in people and infrastructure: at the weekend my folks travelled to Fort William from Glasgow and it took them 9.5 hours due to a number or factors (not related to the strike). On a good day they could have got the train to London and Eurostar and been in Paris quicker! I can see how the strikes will piss off regular users, and this is the stick that the Tory press will use to beat the unions with, same as they do with the likes of Extinction Rebellion (who imho are very poor at choosing their targets).

[Wild Romany Boy]

Was listening to James O'Brien last week and I think he said it well

'If you support all strikes you're an idiot and if you don't support any strikes then you're an idiot.'

This particular strike is a huge pain in the arse. I cannot physically get to work tomorrow and Thursday so have been forced to take them as holiday days. I understand people who can't get to work, hospital, schools exams, Glastonbury etc are going to be massively inconvenienced. 

The tories playbook in this is going exactly how they planned. Pit worker against worker. SUMMER OF DISCONTENT, MILLITANT LEFTIE UNIONS ROLLING IN CASH, TRAIN DRIVERS GET PAID MORE THAN NURSES!!!!

I am part of a union. My pay deals are collectively bargained. My pay deals have always been below inflation. But I dont think I would ever strike exclusively over pay. I have gone out on strike once but that was over our pensions.

So I do support this rail strike as it is down to an attack on working conditions of rail "workers" (Not drivers but guards, cleaners, signallers, ticket office staff and support workers) and a pay rise (they are currently working under a pay freeze).

Out of interest, what did JoB think about this strike?

[gazzalfc]

Out of interest, what did JoB think about this strike?

He started off on the fence about it but as the week went on with the tories using smear tactics and threatening to do exactly what the government was appalled P&O did to their staff he's broadly in support.

[rob1966]

He started off on the fence about it but as the week went on with the tories using smear tactics and threatening to do exactly what the government was appalled P&O did to their staff he's broadly in support.

I pretty much don't listen to the news anymore, I did catch one snippet and it was that useless c*nt Shapps threatening the workers jobs. Love to fucking know who he will replace them with though, seeing as these racist c*nts closed the labour market to Europeans and how we can't even get staff at the airports when they are crying out for workers, we can't pick fruit and veg etc etc.

[thaddeus]

Yes.  The headlines will focus on the outlier higher earners but this covers a huge range of low paid jobs working unsociable shifts.

It's annoying seeing Shapps acting the hard man on this.  The Tories have mismanaged the country and outright sabotaged it since 2016, then they do their usual ploy of turning worker against worker.

[KillieRed]

Stagecoach (ostensibly a private company propped up by public funding) are struggling to get bus drivers to cover all their routes leading to cancellations. What does Shapp think will happen if he, illegally, lays off rail staff?

[filopastry]

Yes, and I would expect a lot more strike action to come across wide sectors of the economy, why the hell should anyone be expected to take massive cuts to real pay by accepting hugely below inflation pay rises anyway.

[thejbs]

Re-nationalise and pay them properly.

[Millie]

Yes

[Machae]

Alright for the MPs, who are either millionaires (mainly Tories) or have a second income elsewhere. Plus their pay, set by the board is inflation busting is it not?

[Mr Benn please?]

I  am supporting the strikes and expect to see more public sector workers, including civil servants like me, striking over the next few months. I think we have reached tipping point now in terms of pay cuts, the cost of living crisis etc. Of course the Tories will use strike action as a weapon to create division, but I think this could backfire as the pandemic has led to quite a lot of goodwill and public sympathy for public sector workers like nurses, teachers etc., and I think people will be more supportive than in the past.

on the above point there is no evidence whatsoever that privatising the rail network has had a positive effect. I have booked train tickets to travel at the weekend and it is a massive pain in the arse having to have the same conversations about changing my travel plans with both the train operators I am travelling with. 

[west_london_red]

100% yes.

And if people think “rail workers are paid more then me or nurses, why are they going on strike?” Your asking the wrong question and you need to ask why are you not getting paid enough? Organise and unionise.

[Nobby Reserve]

It's always hard to tell. Often it feels like pay is the main issue, but they wrap in job protection to make it seem more paletable.

With any large-scale industrial action, the government and its client media will push the narrative trhat it's about pay rises (and come from the perspective that they're just being greedy)

[eddymunster]

100% yes.

And if people think “rail workers are paid more then me or nurses, why are they going on strike?” Your asking the wrong question and you need to ask why are you not getting paid enough? Organise and unionise.

100% this

[RedGlen]

I work in healthcare, and there is a lot of anger around pay and conditions at present. There are a combination of factors, but the main ones are that just about every professional group within the NHS has lost money in real terms since 2010, with pay rises not matching inflation even in years when inflation was low (i.e. 1% pay rises for years, with 2% inflation), and there is nowhere near enough staff to provide god quality healthcare.

For Nurses, its approximately 8% down since 2010, for Doctors, its 9%. When you add inflation (10-11%), with a 5% proposed pay rise (based on Scotland's offer (for Nurses and other staff only, not doctors)), which would be generous any other year, results in a total loss in pay this year of about 13%. So earning almost 15% less than 12 years ago, with a NHS that is more under-resourced and more under pressure than at any point in the last 50 years, and a notable lack of appreciation for the efforts of the health service over the past 3 years. I think you can see why conditions are ripe for a strike. Historically health professions don't strike, however that precedent is gone - the Junior Doctors strike in 2016, the Northern Irish nurses strike in 2019/2020.

To answer the question posed, as a member of the healthcare profession, I understand anger around pay and working conditions all too well. People confuse the National Rail strike with the drivers, this is the support staff, the people who keep the lines running, not the drivers, and I wholeheartedly support their efforts in securing a better paydeal.

The Tories were rather fond of a certain phrase used to castigate Labour - "Fixing the roof while the sun is shining" (https://policyexchange.org.uk/fixing-the-roof-while-the-sun-is-shining-osbornes-new-spending-rule/). Many will say "now is not the time", but in the past 12 years, the Tories have had plenty of opportunities to give inflation matching, or beating, pay rises to public workers, preventing a total overall loss of pay. I imagine people would still be frustrated with working conditions and a high inflation rate, but markedly less so, and more willing to weather this, if they had not lost money since 2010. But now? Everyone should have their pay restored to 2010 levels, matched to inflation. The government plays the poor pauper while having spending many billions on a failed track and trace system.

The Tories have been in power for 12 years. The roof has not been fixed, and the storm is coming.

[stewy17]

I most definitely support the strikes.

I'm not particularly impacted, to be honest. We've got tube and rail strikes down here but 'post-pandemic' I don't really need to be in the office anyway so will just WFH if it's a ballache.

I realise I'm very lucky in that regard but was quite surprised to see so many saying they were screwed because of it. I thought a lot of the impact would be mitigated by more flexible working.

[TepidT2O]

It’s difficult, and I don’t know what the RMT’s end game is. Rail travel may have changed for ever with the pandemic, do staff numbers need to reflect this?? I don’t know.

And what pay % are RMT going to settle at? There’s economic sense in restricting pay below inflation to try to reduce inflation. But when you’re offering so much below inflation, you’re asking workers to suffer too much.

So I support them to a certain extent and within the limits of my own ignorance, but the government can’t be shocked that workers aren’t happy to see their pay going down. The government have no policies to address it, so why would workers not take the matter into their own hands?


And this is only the start of it. When we get to public sector reviews in September there will be more strikes. Because when you give people zero last year (essentially -5%) and say 3% this year, that’s pretty much a 12% pay cut. That’s going to hurt and people will go on strike.

The government need to act to reduce inflation

[thaddeus]

...

The Tories have been in power for 12 years. The roof has not been fixed, and the storm is coming.

Agree with everything you've said (clipping just to avoid a long quote!).  There was a system shock in 2008 with the financial crisis but the management of the economy by the Tories has, as ever, been driven by ideology rather than pragmatism.  Letting the public sector fall into ruin with constant cuts and not replacing staff - either because the roles have been deleted or because the pay/conditions are no longer attractive - was a choice.  I'm struggling to think of a single example where the private sector picking up the slack has offered either better value for money or a better service, never mind both!

Until fairly recently I worked in local government and the cuts were brutal and relentless.  As with the rest of the public sector there was no furlough and workloads in most cases increased during the pandemic with no reward, so goodwill is already in very short supply.  The Tories headline-grabbing tax rise to "fund social care" won't even touch the sides and I'm sure many more councils will declare themselves bankrupt in the coming years as they have an over-reliance on outsourcing with the inflationary costs passed back onto them.

There's definitely a storm coming and, as with the pandemic, we have a really hopeless government in power at just the wrong time.  Johnson can do his usual and tell people that up is down, black is white, night is day etc. all he wants but that won't alter reality.

Not necessarily the thread for it (or my general rant...) but I really hope Labour get a strong and consistent message out on this.  Either they're the party of the workers or they're not - they need to decide.

[Nobby Reserve]

It’s difficult, and I don’t know what the RMT’s end game is. Rail travel may have changed for ever with the pandemic, do staff numbers need to reflect this?? I don’t know.

And what pay % are RMT going to settle at? There’s economic sense in restricting pay below inflation to try to reduce inflation. But when you’re offering so much below inflation, you’re asking workers to suffer too much.

So I support them to a certain extent and within the limits of my own ignorance, but the government can’t be shocked that workers aren’t happy to see their pay going down. The government have no policies to address it, so why would workers not take the matter into their own hands?


And this is only the start of it. When we get to public sector reviews in September there will be more strikes. Because when you give people zero last year (essentially -5%) and say 3% this year, that’s pretty much a 12% pay cut. That’s going to hurt and people will go on strike.

The government need to act to reduce inflation

Pay is but one of the issues* the rail workers are striking over. Mass job cuts, changes to T&Cs (that will make it easier to fire and rehire on worse pay/terms), cuts to pension scheme.

All against the backdrop of the Government slashing £2bn from national rail budgets, and £2bn from TFL.

The Tories once again have engineered this. They slash budgets, then order National Rail/TOCs management to impose 'reform' on the workforce; when the workers take action to protect their jobs, T&C's and pay, the Government and their client media go on the PR warpath.

And look! Bozo's corruption, lying, incompetence and dalliances are off the front pages...

 

Now it's all about lefty militants ruining everyone's lives, and how Labour would drag everyone back to the dark days of the 1970's.


* like I said earlier, though, the media will portray it as being a dispute over the size of pay rises. Worth noting the BBC article on the strike; they have a Q&A thing, and the first question is "How much are Train Drivers paid?" and they quickly say how the median is £59k. Yet train drivers aren't striking

[oldfordie]

Talking from my experiences of Strike action is people shouldn't judge so quickly as they don't know all the details most of the time, ive had arguments with people telling me stuff like " Your on strike again for such and such a reason" I would tell them that's not why we are on strike but they would say it isn't they read why we were on strike in the paper.

[TepidT2O]

Pay is but one of the issues* the rail workers are striking over. Mass job cuts, changes to T&Cs (that will make it easier to fire and rehire on worse pay/terms), cuts to pension scheme.

All against the backdrop of the Government slashing £2bn from national rail budgets, and £2bn from TFL.

The Tories once again have engineered this. They slash budgets, then order National Rail/TOCs management to impose 'reform' on the workforce; when the workers take action to protect their jobs, T&C's and pay, the Government and their client media go on the PR warpath.

And look! Bozo's corruption, lying, incompetence and dalliances are off the front pages...

 

Now it's all about lefty militants ruining everyone's lives, and how Labour would drag everyone back to the dark days of the 1970's.


* like I said earlier, though, the media will portray it as being a dispute over the size of pay rises. Worth noting the BBC article on the strike; they have a Q&A thing, and the first question is "How much are Train Drivers paid?" and they quickly say how the median is £59k. Yet train drivers aren't striking

Thanks, I thought there would be far more to it.

[Machae]

Pay is but one of the issues* the rail workers are striking over. Mass job cuts, changes to T&Cs (that will make it easier to fire and rehire on worse pay/terms), cuts to pension scheme.

All against the backdrop of the Government slashing £2bn from national rail budgets, and £2bn from TFL.

The Tories once again have engineered this. They slash budgets, then order National Rail/TOCs management to impose 'reform' on the workforce; when the workers take action to protect their jobs, T&C's and pay, the Government and their client media go on the PR warpath.

And look! Bozo's corruption, lying, incompetence and dalliances are off the front pages...

 

Now it's all about lefty militants ruining everyone's lives, and how Labour would drag everyone back to the dark days of the 1970's.


* like I said earlier, though, the media will portray it as being a dispute over the size of pay rises. Worth noting the BBC article on the strike; they have a Q&A thing, and the first question is "How much are Train Drivers paid?" and they quickly say how the median is £59k. Yet train drivers aren't striking

They did the same with Civil Service pensions and T&Cs, it was against the law, so they just changed the law. Your contract is worth nothing if the Govt can just pass laws to make it 'legal'

[HarryLabrador]

YES!

I look forward to teachers, NHS workers, criminal barristers and Royal Mail workers to stage industrial action soon. Also heard today doctors may also go on strike.

[west_london_red]

Now it's all about lefty militants ruining everyone's lives, and how Labour would drag everyone back to the dark days of the 1970's.


* like I said earlier, though, the media will portray it as being a dispute over the size of pay rises. Worth noting the BBC article on the strike; they have a Q&A thing, and the first question is "How much are Train Drivers paid?" and they quickly say how the median is £59k. Yet train drivers aren't striking

The Tories spend most their time dreaming about taking us back to the 70’s with less immigrants and imperial measurements so they should be all for the strikes.

And yes the last paragraph is spot on. There’s basically 3 rail unions

ASLEF - represents most drivers (they are not on strike tomorrow)
RMT - represents station staff, maintenance and engineering staff and some drivers (basically those not with ASLEF)
TSSA - represents white collar transport workers like myself (although there is also quite a few Unite members in this group).

[Commie Bobbie]

Absolutely.

Its the ultimate tool that workers have in defending themselves, their fellow colleagues and customers.

[lobsterboy]

I pretty much don't listen to the news anymore, I did catch one snippet and it was that useless c*nt Shapps threatening the workers jobs. Love to fucking know who he will replace them with though, seeing as these racist c*nts closed the labour market to Europeans and how we can't even get staff at the airports when they are crying out for workers, we can't pick fruit and veg etc etc.

Get rid of human rights and modern slavery legislation and you can start on forced labour.

[Jshooters]

YES!

I look forward to teachers, NHS workers, criminal barristers and Royal Mail workers to stage industrial action soon. Also heard today doctors may also go on strike.

It’ll be interesting to see how the right wing media/govt. portray barristers as loony lefties

[TepidT2O]

It’ll be interesting to see how the right wing media/govt. portray barristers as loony lefties

They do that all the time sadly

[redbyrdz]

Yes.

Yes, a strike is a pain in the arse for those depending on the service, but if it wasn't, it wouldn't have an effect.

[Spezialo]

Yes, no question.