Author Topic: PL: Southampton 1 v 2 Liverpool Redmond 13’ 南野拓実 27’ Matip 67’  (Read 23571 times)

Offline redmark

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He shows no passion at all apart from the half arsed "AND ITS LIVE" that he tries still.
I think he just misses Andy Gray. Tyler's commentary and lack of excitement/perceived bias is something that can be fairly easily completely overlooked, by just not looking for it. Makes life much less stressful.
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Sorry but the Carragher stuff in this thread is embarassing. If anything he sounds to me like he is trying too hard to sound impartial but not quite succeeding.

If this is now a Sky thread (and I thought there was one in General Sport), fair enough lets have at it because Martin Tyler was fucking horrendous last night. Surely the twat must be due retiring?


In regards to the actual game of football, best performance of the season for me. To make 9 changes, go behind to a deflected goal against the run of play that should have been ruled out by VAR, and STILL to dominate and win the game comfortably...I think we would given Madrid a very good game with that team last night. One of the most impressive games under Klopp for me, he must be totally made up with that.

I understand Origi is going but I really hope we keep Minamino for another season. I think he or Elliott are a better shout for Salah's position when he is missing than anyone else.

Offline Red Raw

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Martin 'no-clear-and-obvious-error' Atkinson.

::)

Offline Red Raw

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Taki lad!

8)

Offline Red Raw

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Proper Joel goal...

8)

Offline Mighty_Red

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Their squad is mid-table championship standard. They've sold every bit of talent they have, and Hassenhuttl is working miracles to keep them up in the face of virtually no investment from the owners. For me they have the worst squad in the league. Pretty much only Ward-Prowse is worth anything. Romeu if you are feeling generous.
Agreed, as mentioned earlier they seem to go on streaks of good or horrendous form.

The way they play when on it shows Hasanhuttl has enough about to manage a better side. Not to forget they lost Ings, and their recruitment streak has come to an end.

Think they sink the season after getting rid of Hasanhuttl if thats what the fans push for.
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Proper Joel goal...

8)

Every time I see that I imagine a little "doink!" sound effect in my head. It's almost cartoonish how he scores that. ;D
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Offline Timbo's Goals

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And we're so much fun to watch. Even random media sources are commenting on how many shady decision City have had and how much other teams get fucked by PGMOL.


Haven't heard any myself Andy other than the Irish press occasionally. Have you any examples mate. It'd do me good to hear some. It eats at me those 6 points City have benefitted by.

Offline MoSzizlak

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Tyler is a grade one bell. On our second goal he started talking about whether the ball went out of play when the corner was swung in, then the replay showed it was nowhere near going out. He literally tried to find any reason for the goal being disallowed. The sooner he retires the better.

Since when did VAR check for this kind of thing? The only technology is between the posts. It would need to be out of play by a long way to be clear and obvious. Desperate stuff really. Same at the weekend when City missed the Pen, Tyler and Neville desparate for the keeper to be 1mm off his line and have it retaken.

Offline redmark

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Since when did VAR check for this kind of thing? The only technology is between the posts. It would need to be out of play by a long way to be clear and obvious. Desperate stuff really. Same at the weekend when City missed the Pen, Tyler and Neville desparate for the keeper to be 1mm off his line and have it retaken.
We had one of Robertson's corners checked for that a month or two ago, didn't we? It's clear from commentaries that they have knowledge of what VAR is actually looking at before we do; how they communicate that to us is obviously open to interpretation (and potentially bias), whether mentioning details of what is being checked, or by omission. If there was any bias or over-eager policing of Liverpool compared to others, it may be VAR themselves rather than the commentator. Either way, for clarity and impartiality it would be better if VAR status messages were just fed directly into the TV images. Or scrap VAR entirely, and live with inevitable refereeing errors.
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Offline ianburns252

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Was watching US coverage last night (thank fuck) but almost spat my coffee out reading this.

Can't believe VAR took a look at our corner, especially in the same game they've decided an objective foul before a goal doesn't meet the threshold. They have the fucking lino standing on the line specifically looking at that one thing (if it's gone out).

Why is it they won't overturn a ref who signals 'got the ball' from 5 metres away, even though he clearly made a mistake (or worse), but they'd have willingly overturned a lino signalling there was no issue with the corner going out?

As ever with VAR, there's no fidelity or consistency in how it's applied and called

So this is where I could be getting it wrong with VAR but don't they essentially look at everything? It always feels to me like poor commentating or commentators creating a narrative about VAR looking at something whereas in reality all incidents (so fouls, goals, pens etc) will get a check and then where they determine a clear error they tell the ref.

If I am wrong then happy to be corrected but feels very much like a case of shit commentator creates narrative because they are shit at their job

Offline classycarra

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So this is where I could be getting it wrong with VAR but don't they essentially look at everything? It always feels to me like poor commentating or commentators creating a narrative about VAR looking at something whereas in reality all incidents (so fouls, goals, pens etc) will get a check and then where they determine a clear error they tell the ref.

If I am wrong then happy to be corrected but feels very much like a case of shit commentator creates narrative because they are shit at their job

I think you're right, but on semantics.

As I understand it the context behind 'VAR is looking at it' is that play has been paused for a moment (or, at most is still in the phase after the incident and will potentially pause if the ball goes dead).

So, post-goal, VAR would be looking and also the ball is dead by definition - so it's 'looked at'.

What i'd be interested in, is how commentary is dealth with by the VAR - unfortunately transparency is deliberately minimal. But a serious organisation that understood conscious and unconscious bias would not allow the video refs to listen to commentary at all - I think also they would need to be watching a single feed of the game, from the standard angle, too to minimise bias. But as we know, they are influenced by replays appearing - so the broadcasters can help determine which incidents are chosen to be more heavily scrutinised.

They also unfortunately can do the reverse and fail to provide the video ref with a good replay in time to accurately call an incident (remember for example the Super Cup when Abraham clearly dived, but the angle that showed it conclusively wasnt provided to the video ref by the broadcaster until half time of extra time.

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Reading SaintsWeb is interesting, they were very displeased with the performance and the result given our changes and endeavours over the weekend - they’re in full on mutiny and want the squad dissected, dispersed and Hassenhuttl gone.

From the outside looking in, Hassenhuttl has done a decent job on very poor resources - they take punts from B-tier leagues in the £8m - £15m bracket and hope they unearth another Mane, Wanyama or Schneiderlin etc. The actual players their scouting just don’t seem to be that good though. It can still be done, when applied with skill - look at Brentford - but the market has moved on and players they used to get in that bracket now cost £20m+. If they’re not willing or able to stretch the budget then I doubt they’ll retain Premier League status for too much longer. There will be one season where they go down.

I thought they showed some of the worst distribution from the back I’ve seen all season, crumbled under the press and allowed us more space and time than I thought any team at this level would. They battled, to an extent, and our lads showed massive character, but they definitely need a squad overhaul.

On ourselves, risky move by Kloppo but I trust his decision making and he got it right - the team created 4 very presentable chances (stuck one away and scored one additional odd one) and Southampton’s goal shouldn’t have stood. Alisson was fantastic, great starting position all the time (zero doubt in my mind he’s the best keeper on the planet and the best to do it for Liverpool), Matip solid, Konate excellent, Tsimikas very good. I’m the midfield Jones showed flashes, as did Minamino who took his goal brilliantly, Bobby was excellent. I do fear for Milner, more and more he’s undone by transitions but that’s his age showing, he’s a leader and whilst you don’t want to lose that from the dressing room, I think if he stays another season we’ll see him less and less. What a career and what a player he’s been for us though. Club legend for me.

Henderson excellent when he came on. Slowed things down when needed, showed some aggression that their midfield didn’t fancy and kept the ball moving into the right areas.

I thought they were awful and it was that bullshit goal that kept them in the game.

Villa offered a lot more last week and with a crowd behind them. They look like they might struggle next season. We played really well but they were an ideal opponents. At this stage of the season though some teams always clock off like Wolves against City
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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On Carragher, does he understand the damage he’s causing and caused to his reputation with the fanbase. I’ve stuck up for him in the past because I’ve seen first hand some of the incredible charity work he’s done in the city and for our people - but then he’ll be on live tv in front of millions basically slating the team and actively willing them to lose. It’s bizarre, he comes across as having a pro-City agenda and I can only think that he cares more about prolonging his earning potential than he does about his long term standing with the club that made him and the city that loved him.

It’s sad. It’s disappointing. He probably made more money than he could realistically spend as a player (his final long term deal had him on reportedly £80k - £100k a week for four years) and now he’s dancing to Sky’s tune because they kept him on after a moment of poor self-control and frankly disgusting behaviour.

Marred his legend with the club now, I really struggle to see myself welcoming the lad. Wonder what’s gotten into him because his behaviour lacks solidarity with the people who raised him and is decidedly un-scouse.

Carragher's always been a bit off. Thought he was sound until I read his book which is full of baffling stuff. I hated the way he carried himself on the pitch as well always bawling people out, compared to Hendo's leadership. He seemed a bully
« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 02:07:09 pm by Fromola »
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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Indeed

Anyone with a ticket for sunday needs to be staying and showing the team squad coaches staff and families all the love they deserve. Anyone leaving early to beat traffic or catch a train would be doing them a disservice
way back the Kop would serenade them with "sit down, yer bums, sit down".  maybe that's needed now.

Offline ianburns252

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I think you're right, but on semantics.

As I understand it the context behind 'VAR is looking at it' is that play has been paused for a moment (or, at most is still in the phase after the incident and will potentially pause if the ball goes dead).

So, post-goal, VAR would be looking and also the ball is dead by definition - so it's 'looked at'.

What i'd be interested in, is how commentary is dealth with by the VAR - unfortunately transparency is deliberately minimal. But a serious organisation that understood conscious and unconscious bias would not allow the video refs to listen to commentary at all - I think also they would need to be watching a single feed of the game, from the standard angle, too to minimise bias. But as we know, they are influenced by replays appearing - so the broadcasters can help determine which incidents are chosen to be more heavily scrutinised.

They also unfortunately can do the reverse and fail to provide the video ref with a good replay in time to accurately call an incident (remember for example the Super Cup when Abraham clearly dived, but the angle that showed it conclusively wasnt provided to the video ref by the broadcaster until half time of extra time.

Apologies - I wasn't nitpicking your post, just that it covered both VAR and commentators so chimed with my gripe with how commentary teams discuss VAR in a way that might not actually be the reality.

Surely the VAR team don't get the "broadcast" version but instead have a "clean" version of the footage and there are then technicians in there who get all the angles ready for the separate to those providing it for Sky/BT?

I would have thought that is the only way to keep it as free from bias as possible

Offline redmark

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Surely the VAR team don't get the "broadcast" version but instead have a "clean" version of the footage and there are then technicians in there who get all the angles ready for the separate to those providing it for Sky/BT?
That's been my assumption - I think I recall a twitter thread on it, sometime. The issue to me is more that the commentators are getting some indication of what VAR is looking at, and can 'set a narrative' by which details of VAR activity they mention - and which they don't.

edit: Must be the case; there are many examples where Sky/BT follow the action, then mention VAR is looking at something, then that VAR is satisfied, without ever showing a replay.
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Offline Slick_Beef

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Don't know if they show this in UK but highlights of the CL games are often shown on TV here in Portugal (on Eleven sports) with the VAR radio included and you can understand better how they talk to the ref. A while ago I even caught it for our CL final against spurs which was interesting (with the handball etc).  We don't get that for the PL but sometimes you get the English refs in the CL so you do get a feel for how it works. The FA really ought to do that for Premier League games  ( I would prefer to hear the VAR live but if that's not possible at least afterwards it's better than nothing)

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Offline Schmarn

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Don't know if they show this in UK but highlights of the CL games are often shown on TV here in Portugal (on Eleven sports) with the VAR radio included and you can understand better how they talk to the ref. A while ago I even caught it for our CL final against spurs which was interesting (with the handball etc).  We don't get that for the PL but sometimes you get the English refs in the CL so you do get a feel for how it works. The FA really ought to do that for Premier League games  ( I would prefer to hear the VAR live but if that's not possible at least afterwards it's better than nothing)

They'll never do that here. This is how last night would have gone:

Attwell:  Martin, what did you see there? Cos it looks like it might have been a foul on Jota and Klopp's going mental.

Atkinson:  Not sure, I was letting the game flow, didn't expect them to go on and score from it. F*ck.

Attwell:  Replays look like a foul but let's just wave play on before I see a conclusive one. If I shut my eyes, we can't say it's a clear and obvious error, can we?

Atkinson: Nice one, mate. Dippers, I mean Liverpool, won't be happy but I'll be on the beach after Sunday so who cares. Oh and make sure that Gallagher and Walton get the same script for their expert reviews.


« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 03:12:54 pm by Schmarn »

Offline thaddeus

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Love this from Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/usavmf/the_difference_between_martin_tyler_peter_drury/

Drury vs. Tyler on the Matip goal.
Chalk and cheese!  The goal in isolation wasn't particularly exciting but in the context of the title race and how the game was poised it was massive.  Drury reflected that, Tyler didn't.

Also Carra: "Joel Matip looked surprised when the ball went into the back of the net".  Probably not that surprised Carra, his goal tally this season is only one short of what you managed in your entire career!

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Love this from Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/usavmf/the_difference_between_martin_tyler_peter_drury/

Drury vs. Tyler on the Matip goal.
The contrast is crazy. Tyler and Sky ought to be ashamed of themselves, especially Tyler. For him to talk about VAR checking if the ball was out, confirms how he approaches his commentaries on us. From the monitor in front of him he should have been able to tell that was nowhere near out.

I might ring Sky and tell them I'll be avoiding streams with him on until they get rid  ;). Seriously though, any red with a sub should fuck it off.

Cheers for posting.


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Offline McSquared

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Love this from Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/usavmf/the_difference_between_martin_tyler_peter_drury/

Drury vs. Tyler on the Matip goal.

Does he let out a deflation sound at the start? Glad i was watching on world feed on iptv

Offline classycarra

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Apologies - I wasn't nitpicking your post, just that it covered both VAR and commentators so chimed with my gripe with how commentary teams discuss VAR in a way that might not actually be the reality.

Surely the VAR team don't get the "broadcast" version but instead have a "clean" version of the footage and there are then technicians in there who get all the angles ready for the separate to those providing it for Sky/BT?

I would have thought that is the only way to keep it as free from bias as possible
Same mate, ended up venting a bit there.

You'd certainly like to think so, but given the deliberate obscurity PGMOL operate under it will be hard to know. They also make up post hoc lies to justify mistakes, which doesn't exactly build trust.

Then of course there was the game spurs repeatedly cheated against us (narrow it down!!) - in the season before VAR - the one with the lamela and kane dives. The ref came over to the linesman to buy some time and discuss the lamela dive on VVD. Without realising it, he was caught on camera saying something like 'has TV got anything for us?'. So again, they haven't earned much trust on the matter since you'd suspect that means they were using a pseudo-VAR with the broadcasters (but without transparency) in the years before VAR

That's been my assumption - I think I recall a twitter thread on it, sometime. The issue to me is more that the commentators are getting some indication of what VAR is looking at, and can 'set a narrative' by which details of VAR activity they mention - and which they don't.

edit: Must be the case; there are many examples where Sky/BT follow the action, then mention VAR is looking at something, then that VAR is satisfied, without ever showing a replay.

Believe you're right - but what I'm curious about is do they hear the commentators in the background in real time too
« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 03:56:38 pm by Classycara »

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Drury is just incredible at his job

Will be a sad day for international viewers when/if Drury is picked up by Sky to replace Tyler.

Offline Circa1892

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Love this from Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/usavmf/the_difference_between_martin_tyler_peter_drury/

Drury vs. Tyler on the Matip goal.

Tyler commentates on our goals as if he's commentating on someone going down on his wife.

Best example is still when Benteke scored an absolute worldie at OT and he was silent, before cracking one off loudly when Martial scored.

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Tyler commentates on our goals as if he's commentating on someone going down on his wife.


My word. :D

Needs the ‘Touches in Opposition Box’ stat for that.

Offline newterp

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My word. :D

Needs the ‘Touches in Opposition Box’ stat for that.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Offline Heritage

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Can someone please make a "Jamie Carragher's punditry career bothers me" thread so people will stop fucking complaining constantly in other threads about him? Christ.
Seriously. Someone start a "sky commentary hate" thread or something.
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Seriously. Someone start a "sky commentary hate" thread or something.

Skip over the posts. Surely it doesn’t bother you so much you have to quote yourself. It’s not exactly earth shattering stuff.

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Drury is just incredible at his job

The contrast between him & Tyler is immense. He exudes passion & highlights the importance of the goal with respects to the title, whereas the other miserable twat Tyler sounds like he'd rather be at home watching Emmerdale. He's well past his sell-by-date & needs to be put out to grass.

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Will be a sad day for international viewers when/if Drury is picked up by Sky to replace Tyler.
Drury is on a lot of DAZN PL games.  He tends to overdo the flowery language stuff now and then, but he's 100 bazillion times better than Tyler (who, thank Christ, I get to hear very little of).

Drury and Beglin are pretty good together.

Offline Heritage

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Skip over the posts. Surely it doesn’t bother you so much you have to quote yourself. It’s not exactly earth shattering stuff.

Fair! I've seen it in multiple post match threads and it does really grate seeing fans dragging Carra through the mud because he's not a cheerleader for us at his current job. Some people have a short memory.
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Don't know if they show this in UK but highlights of the CL games are often shown on TV here in Portugal (on Eleven sports) with the VAR radio included and you can understand better how they talk to the ref. A while ago I even caught it for our CL final against spurs which was interesting (with the handball etc).  We don't get that for the PL but sometimes you get the English refs in the CL so you do get a feel for how it works. The FA really ought to do that for Premier League games  ( I would prefer to hear the VAR live but if that's not possible at least afterwards it's better than nothing)

Would love that. Curious why they don't do that here, I can't think of a reason other than they don't want to be held accountable. They obviously relay it to the commentators, I'm not sure why they don't just let everyone know what the conversation is.
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Fair! I've seen it in multiple post match threads and it does really grate seeing fans dragging Carra through the mud because he's not a cheerleader for us at his current job. Some people have a short memory.

He’s a bellend

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Love this from Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/usavmf/the_difference_between_martin_tyler_peter_drury/

Drury vs. Tyler on the Matip goal.

That's embarrassing for Tyler, complete night and day commentary between two "Neutral" commentators. Tyler should just resign, he's a joke and doesn't even bother to try and hide his loathing hatred of our great club. Listening to him commentate on our games is horrific.

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I used to like Drury but he is getting too much nowadays. Starting to believe his own hype and needs to tone it down a bit with the constant search for a legendary quote.

Then you have Tyler who is the polar opposite. A lot here are far too sensitive over any apparent bias against us. That isn't the case at all. He is like that for every PL game outside of our own too. There was a City game (might be Leeds) in where his commentary was as dry as anything. Think age has just caught up with him and with that his tone has mellowed a lot. He is nearing 75 which is seriously old for a commentator. The likes of Motson and Davies called it a day before 70 if i'm right. He probably doesn't want to let go and still enjoys the whole gameday experience part of it.

Sky have Bill Leslie who they should give a bigger role. Think he was the commentator who called the Deeney goal in the Championship playoff between Watford and Leicester. Someone in- house at Sky clearly doesn't rate him though. He has the right balance of not being a bit too much like Drury or the other way like Tyler.

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Yeah Drury is miles ahead of Tyler, and at least puts some oomph and emotion into it, but he has a tendency to get far too overwrought and hysterical at times, with his warbling voice and faux emotional profundity until he becomes almost a parody of commentating. You begin to imagine him asking his wife to pass the marmalade with the same kind of histrionics and it all just starts becoming too funny for words

But I suppose it's horses for courses; people have their own particular styles of commentary they like, which probably has a lot to do with who they grew up listening to. Alan Green and Mike Ingham on the radio will always be my top choice for commentary, yet I know others dislike them
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Think it's pretty clear that Carragher is a Liverpool supporter and wants us to win but he realises that he can't come across that way on TV so makes a conscious effort to appear impartial.

The foul on Jota is a perfect example of where he should be saying that VAR should intervene but he doesn't want to come across as a Liverpool fan demanding a goal is over-ruled so instead he sticks with the line that there wasn't much in it.
I dunno about that; after all Neville is 100% pro United and it doesn't seem to hurt him or his chances so why would Carra think he needs to be non-partisan? Personally I think he just tries too hard to come across as clever and insightful; instead of just saying what we can all see (a foul, a trip, a clear red card etc) he wants to pretend that he can see someting all we dumb proles have missed because he's such a pro. In addition to that I think he's just a crap commentator. His voice, his delievery, his non-stop gob just aren't right for commentary. Not everyone has the voice and the manner for commentary. He's a square peg in the job and shouldn't be doing it when there are better people available.

I don't hate him like I do Steve Macmanananananaman who's a proper lazy arsed gobshite contrarian bellend.

Quote
On the corner, he said that VAR were looking at whether the corner had swung out, not that VAR should look at it. Don't forget that the commentators can both see what VAR are doing and hear them discussing whatever they're looking at, Carragher is just relaying this to the audience.
Agree. A bit too much is being made of this. It was a left-footed inswinging corner from the left side which means VAR automatically check to make sure it hasn't gone out (the same with a right-footed inswinger from the opposite side). They don't expect it will have but they check. It is a bit odd that Tyler felt the need to mention what would be a routine check, so it does sound a bit like he was desperate to find a reason for disallowal. But he wasn't making it up.
"Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth, and every other man has a right to knock him down for it."
Samuel (not Glen) Johnson, as reported by James (not Joey) Boswell. They must have foreseen RAWK ;D