Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD

[spider-neil]

We still are sell to buy but that's another discussion and an assessment not a criticism.

If we sell all the players we want we'll come out pretty even with regards to net spend but that doesn't take into account Diaz whose signing was brought forwards from the summer to sign in January.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I keep seeing this, but Dortmund are specifically a selling club. Their whole ethos is 'we sign the high profile kids because they know they'll play plenty of games, improve both technically and in terms of profile, and we can then flip them for a massive profit'. You dont get there by flat out refusing to sell those players. If we dropped an £80 million offer in their inbox as an opening offer, I very much doubt they'd reply with 'Nope absolutely not for sale, no way no how'.

They've had numerous seasons where they've told more than one.

But at the same time, Bellingham's value is unlikely to drop if he stays there for another 12 months - in fact it's likely to rise. They don't need the money right now and the player is unlikely to agitate for a move, so what's really in it for them to sell? Reading between the lines it seems like there is a mutual understanding that next summer will be his time to move on and all parties seem happy with that.

[PeterTheRed ...]

Dortmund are a selling club in that they develop players young to sell on. That's their ethos now. In a different way, we still are sell to buy but that's another discussion and an assessment not a criticism.

Nope, we are no longer selling star players in order to keep our business model running. Coutinho was the last big sale 4.5 years ago, and even that happened because Barcelona offered ridiculous money ...

[clinical]

Time will tell whether we go for another midfielder this summer (Carvalho is already forgotten about it seems). I don't see it so we'll see.
Obviously, if a unique opportunity happens we'll pounce. For example, if Gavi doesn't extend his contract.

Can't see us playing Carvalho in midfield 3 just yet.

Gavi and Bellingham seem to be who the club wants. Will be interesting to see if there's back up options if both are ruled out. Both unlikely. All rivals crying about how much we've spent. But there's a high chance we end the market in profit.

[Waterpistol]

If we sell all the players we want we'll come out pretty even with regards to net spend but that doesn't take into account Diaz whose signing was brought forwards from the summer to sign in January.

But we have to sell those players in order to buy new ones. The fabled net spend table doesn't lie, and 95% of teams operate the same, some with more risks, some with less.

[El Lobo]

Dortmund are not a selling club. They are a sell-to-buy club, just like we've been until recently. They will not sell Bellingham this summer, unless some club makes a ridiculous bid, like Barcelona did in the case of Coutinho ...

Please lets not have a morning of this Peter, Dortmund very obviously are a selling club.

[Waterpistol]

Nope, we are no longer selling star players in order to keep our business model running. Coutinho was the last big sale 4.5 years ago, and even that happened because Barcelona offered ridiculous money ...

Why did we stop doing it?

[wige]

I'm saying don't buy for the sake of buying. We have enough to get by. Only buy if the right midfielder comes along. Tchouameni is a special talent and we had to make a move for him. Many midfielders would only be a stop gap. If Bellingham is a top target we should wait for him.

Gavi is also a special talent but it looks like he is going to renew. If the right midfielder isn't available we should save our money and when an opportunity presents itself we'll be ready like when we bought Diaz in January. In the meantime, Elliott, Carvalho, and Jones get an opportunity to stake a claim.

On the midfield, completely agree with this.

I'd like one, and I think we could do with one, but I'm not entirely sure what profile it is that we need. Also not sure what system we're gonna be using, and a more permanent switch to a 4231 or even 4213, might see us pretty well stocked as it is.

Think the point about whether we think we can find elite wide forwards who can post the numbers Sadio and Mo have is a good one too. From what I've seen of Diaz, whilst brilliant and a huge, constant threat, I'm not convinced he's gonna hit 20 a season and may well benefit having someone in the mould of Nunez to have as a target in the middle.

Anyway, tangent aside, I think as a pure 6 we're well stocked with Fab and Hendo. Keita and Thiago as the more all rounder who'd pair with them. That kinda gives us options with Carvalho, Elliott and Bobby as real options as a 10/attacking 8... Personally think we'll see a lot of Elliott this season and genuinely think the lad is gonna be a superstar.

Deliberately left out Milner, because he's there to do a job wherever he's asked to. Also Jones, because I'm not really sure what he is. Probably another in that Thiago/Keita mould, but his time in the u23s etc as well as stints in the first team have shown he's got a goal in him and very creative. Going to be interesting.

Wouldn't stun me if we got by until January and then went for someone to bolster out options, kinda like Diaz. Though, that said, I think it would be a lot easier to join our team and squad mid-season as a wide forward than it would be as a midfielder.

Anyway, Barella please

[PeterTheRed ...]

Can't see us playing Carvalho in midfield 3 just yet.

Gavi and Bellingham seem to be who the club wants. Will be interesting to see if there's back up options if both are ruled out. Both unlikely. All rivals crying about how much we've spent. But there's a high chance we end the market in profit.

That is, if we even use a midfield 3 in the future. The arrival of Nunez and Carvalho suggests something else, as well as our interest in Gavi and Bellingham ...

[MD1990]

Jacob Ramsey I think would be a great alternative to Bellingham. Probably too costly though for his ability

it is an athlete we need more than anything in midfield. Someone powerful. Because Henderson is slowing down

[Schmidt]

Time will tell whether we go for another midfielder this summer (Carvalho is already forgotten about it seems). I don't see it so we'll see.
Obviously, if a unique opportunity happens we'll pounce. For example, if Gavi doesn't extend his contract.

It was mentioned by someone reputable that Carvalho won't be played in midfield for a while yet. A lot depends on how often we play 4-3-3 next season, if it's the majority of games like this season then we're definitely light, if it's a rarity and we go with a two man midfield more often then we're probably okay.

[PeterTheRed ...]

Why did we stop doing it?

Because we have turned into the highest earning club in England, obviously. Just like Bayern Munich in Germany ...

[MD1990]

On the midfield, completely agree with this.

I'd like one, and I think we could do with one, but I'm not entirely sure what profile it is that we need. Also not sure what system we're gonna be using, and a more permanent switch to a 4231 or even 4213, might see us pretty well stocked as it is.

Think the point about whether we think we can find elite wide forwards who can post the numbers Sadio and Mo have is a good one too. From what I've seen of Diaz, whilst brilliant and a huge, constant threat, I'm not convinced he's gonna hit 20 a season and may well benefit having someone in the mould of Nunez to have as a target in the middle.

Anyway, tangent aside, I think as a pure 6 we're well stocked with Fab and Hendo. Keita and Thiago as the more all rounder who'd pair with them. That kinda gives us options with Carvalho, Elliott and Bobby as real options as a 10/attacking 8... Personally think we'll see a lot of Elliott this season and genuinely think the lad is gonna be a superstar.

Deliberately left out Milner, because he's there to do a job wherever he's asked to. Also Jones, because I'm not really sure what he is. Probably another in that Thiago/Keita mould, but his time in the u23s etc as well as stints in the first team have shown he's got a goal in him and very creative. Going to be interesting.

Wouldn't stun me if we got by until January and then went for someone to bolster out options, kinda like Diaz. Though, that said, I think it would be a lot easier to join our team and squad mid-season as a wide forward than it would be as a midfielder.

Anyway, Barella please

Under a pre season & getting more use to his team mates & more appapted to the league,better english. I think he can hit 20 goals in all comps

[El Lobo]

Time will tell whether we go for another midfielder this summer (Carvalho is already forgotten about it seems). I don't see it so we'll see.
Obviously, if a unique opportunity happens we'll pounce. For example, if Gavi doesn't extend his contract.

When we announced him he was announced as a forward, if that gives any sort of indication of where we see him playing.

[Henry Gale]

So are Dortmund a selling club or what? 

[Waterpistol]

Because we have turned into the highest earning club in England, obviously. Just like Bayern Munich in Germany ...

We stopped selling top players because we started winning things. Winning things can negate being paid less than what an oil club will pay you.

We still have to move on inferior/unwanted players in order to bring new players in - just like 95% of clubs have to.

Within this model we take less risks than some clubs and more than other clubs - hence our standing in the net spend data.

[spider-neil]

When we announced him he was announced as a forward, if that gives any sort of indication of where we see him playing.

But he could be a forward in a 4-2-3-1 meaning a 2 in midfield would Carvalho in an attacking 4.

[wige]

Under a pre season & getting more use to his team mates & more appapted to the league,better english. I think he can hit 20 goals in all comps

You may well be right. Just thought there were some signs that he leant more towards a creative wide forward than a goal scoring one.

Not a hill I particularly want to die on though. He's gonna be brilliant for us whatever role he's performing.

[MD1990]

i find it strange its mentioned we may need another forward to replace Minamino.

We have Carvalho & Gordon who is a great talent too.

We wont get theses type of deals in the future if we dont feature these players in the cups.

I would be shocked if we bought another forward. We also have Doak bought who is quite a big talent having played for Celtic at 16.

[spider-neil]

We stopped selling top players because we started winning things. Winning things can negate being paid less than what an oil club will pay you.

We still have to move on inferior/unwanted players in order to bring new players in - just like 95% of clubs have to.

Within this model we take less risks than some clubs and more than other clubs - hence our standing in the net spend data.

I would have bet money that had not Covid hit, one of Salah or Mane would already have been sold.

[Fordy]

No way on this earth does Dortmund sell two stars in one transfer window.

Why?

Please explain. Have they never done this before?

[Fordy]

i find it strange its mentioned we may need another forward to replace Minamino.

We have Carvalho & Gordon who is a great talent too.

We wont get theses type of deals in the future if we dont feature these players in the cups.

I would be shocked if we bought another forward. We also have Doak bought who is quite a big talent having played for Celtic at 16.

Add Clark and Musiałowski, Stewart to this list.

[The Klapp]

We could really do with a midfielder yeah, City and Madrid have much better options than us there. Depends if Klopp thinks players like Sangare or Matheus Nunes are good enough cos we definitely realize we need another in there with our Tchou Tchou chase. 

Anyway... a 6 year contract for Nunez is really good with players winding down their contracts and likely to start insisting on release clauses more and more.

I expect Nunez to make a big difference, the attack actually struggled for goals from the City away game onwards... Massively wasteful v Newcastle, 1 deflected goal in 3 games against tougher opposition... Spurs, Chelsea, Madrid. Mane was thriving but I don't think the attack as a whole worked as well as it could... Diaz and Salah weren't scoring many with Mane 9. Jota didn't score in the last 7 games. Salah linked well with Origi at times, and he had a good thing going with Dzeko at Roma, so that gives the attack a different dimension...

[MD1990]

Add Clark and Musiałowski, Stewart to this list.

From the bits ive seen of them. I wouldnt add to them to the list of making it at Liverpool.

Now i have no seen Doak so I could be wrong about him.

[spider-neil]

Why?

Please explain. Have they never done this before?

Not that I remember. Obviously, if someone makes a ridiculous offer for Bellingham they will sell but do you see us offering crazy money for Bellingham after spending crazy money for Nunez?

[Barefoot Doctor]

i find it strange its mentioned we may need another forward to replace Minamino.

We have Carvalho & Gordon who is a great talent too.

We wont get theses type of deals in the future if we dont feature these players in the cups.

I would be shocked if we bought another forward. We also have Doak bought who is quite a big talent having played for Celtic at 16.

Yeah, I think it's very unllikely. I see the argument - we had seven senior attackers the last half season in Salah, Mane, Firmino, Jota, Diaz, Origi and Minamino - and now it looks like we'll have six in Salah, Firmino, Jota, Diaz, Nunez and Carvalho. But it ignores the fact that Gordon, who was trusted to start a League Cup semi final last season at the Emirates, will presumably be ready to take further steps. And I think it also neglects the likelihood of Elliott potentially getting games in attack too.

On midfielders, I'd suggest that us as fans struggling to think of a suitable Tchouameni alternative who can contribute at a high level doesn't mean the club are struggling to do so.

[RedG13]

Jacob Ramsey I think would be a great alternative to Bellingham. Probably too costly though for his ability

it is an athlete we need more than anything in midfield. Someone powerful. Because Henderson is slowing down

https://fbref.com/en/players/1544f145/Jacob-Ramsey
He good but there already a better 21 Year MF at Liverpool.

[PeterTheRed ...]

So are Dortmund a selling club or what? 

They are a sell-to-buy club. They have sold Haaland, and have already signed Adeyemi and Schlotterbeck with the money. Business as usual. They don't sell players to pay wages or keep their business running ...

[RedG13]

But he could be a forward in a 4-2-3-1 meaning a 2 in midfield would Carvalho in an attacking 4.

Of the the 3 in a 4-2-3-1 one is likely to be the playmaker type. Elliott, Keita, Jones are the 3 that really fit those and. Think Gotze from Dortmund type and 2 of this also play are probably better suited more often playing the 8 spots.
In terms of roles in the 433 the RCM is generally this player, Henderson played it a lot last season but Elliott type player probably ideal this type of player.
Carvalho looks more of a 2nd striker type 10, a little more like firmino then gotze.

[RedG13]

Add Clark and Musiałowski, Stewart to this list.

Kaide seemed like he was more fast tracked to the first team.
Musialowski, Stewart I dont think they get a ton of training with 1st team or seem more then get a look in preseason.
Clark a little early to tell. Doak probably leans the Clark path a little more then Kaide path.
Kaide is already somebody who can start in cup games(he also scored in 1) none of those other ones yet have showed that.

[Mighty_Red]

Every teams sells and every team buys

In this comparison:
Dortmund sell players approaching their prime for profit and buy cheap young raw players with some of that money.
Liverpool sell players players past their prime or not quite good enough to buy players approaching their prime.

There are always exceptions to this but this has been the general rule at least for the last 4 years.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

City and Madrid have much better options than us there.

This is just utter nonsense.

[Fordy]

Kaide seemed like he was more fast tracked to the first team.
Musialowski, Stewart I dont think they get a ton of training with 1st team or seem more then get a look in preseason.
Clark a little early to tell. Doak probably leans the Clark path a little more then Kaide path.
Kaide is already somebody who can start in cup games(he also scored in 1) none of those other ones yet have showed that.

This is true and I don't expect them too this season but all I have mentioned are highly rated by the club. I expect one or 2 of them to feature in the pre season tour.

Musialowski has a injury hit season last season and Clark was new. Point I am making is that they are in the wings waiting and will hopefully kick on in the under 21/23's this season.

[Dundalis]

Jacob Ramsey I think would be a great alternative to Bellingham. Probably too costly though for his ability

it is an athlete we need more than anything in midfield. Someone powerful. Because Henderson is slowing down

An athlete without football intelligence is useless. A super athlete would be fantastic, but I will take the below average athlete with great football intelligence over the great athlete with below average football intelligence every day.

[El Lobo]

They are a sell-to-buy club. They have sold Haaland, and have already signed Adeyemi and Schlotterbeck with the money. Business as usual. They don't sell players to pay wages or keep their business running ...

No they don't....they sell players to continue their business model going, which is to sign a high amount of promising youngsters and sell them when their value has massively increased. There isn't this mythical 'sell one big player per summer' idea which you seem to think exists. When you're a club that isn't at the top table, and they're not, then everyone has a price regardless of whether you've 'already sold one big player' in that window.

[Fordy]

They are a sell-to-buy club. They have sold Haaland, and have already signed Adeyemi and Schlotterbeck with the money. Business as usual. They don't sell players to pay wages or keep their business running ...

They knew that Sancho was joining Utd and Haaland was leaving. The only reason they didn't sell both at the same time was because A) Utd didn't meet their 100m asking price but that was because Utd found out that a season later they could get him for 70ish million. B) Haaland agent knew he has a reduce asking fee this season in which City took up.

It has nothing to do with them not wanting or willing to sell two big players in the same season. That's just bollocks.

If a club offers a good price for Bellingham this season then they will sell.

[cdav]

The midfield chat is great and all, but where is the plane tracking?

[DelTrotter]

Get me Darwin Nunez safely through his medical then it's on to the next one. Quite a few Benfica fans mention his knee on their forums so hopefully he comes though all good and it was just a past issue that's fine now. Then it's Bellingham time!

[RedG13]

This is true and I don't expect them too this season but all I have mentioned are highly rated by the club. I expect one or 2 of them to feature in the pre season tour.

Musialowski has a injury hit season last season and Clark was new. Point I am making is that they are in the wings waiting and will hopefully kick on in the under 21/23's this season.

Yea. I think we see will see them on the preseason tour some of them.
Also it probably good the u23 is now the u21.
Kaide the one who currently has a clear 1st team path and would expect him to close to a full timer first player assuming his development is good by 2023-24 season mostly more in the squad then 1st team. Time will tell though
All of them are talented. Taking chances on multiple very talented 16 years old you likely to have somebody work out.
Kaide and doak are both 3 mil fee irc.
Clark idk.
Musialowski not sure either.

[Knight]

No they don't....they sell players to continue their business model going, which is to sign a high amount of promising youngsters and sell them when their value has massively increased. There isn't this mythical 'sell one big player per summer' idea which you seem to think exists. When you're a club that isn't at the top table, and they're not, then everyone has a price regardless of whether you've 'already sold one big player' in that window.

And part of the skill is keeping them long enough that their value has increased as much as possible and they've contributed enough on the pitch whilst not keeping hold of players too long so they resent it and other promising youngsters are put off going there. The when you sell is really quite important in their model.