Topic: Welcome to Liverpool Thiago Alcantara

[PoetryInMotion]

Facts aren't a narrative though.  Injury, the game not being necessary, better players, etc etc is the narrative.  At some point the numbers are the numbers. 

And I think this gets away from the fact that he's a great player when he's on the field.  I just gave my reasoning for why I would be concerned if we required him to succeed and why I thought the transfer is odd.  That's my opinion.  Others are welcome to theirs.  I just don't think quibbling over factual stats is worth it but to each their own.

First of all, you said he played over 20 league games in three seasons. For all the talk of factual stats, that's not true. He's done it in 7 seasons.

And for me, if he achieves the same in the next 4 seasons with appearances in the CL, in most matches and certainly crucial matches, it's a punt well worth taken. He may be able to achieve more and that's a bonus for a player of his quality. If he contributes to a PL and a CL success in his next 4 years, do you think people will be bothered about how many league games he played (then or in the past)? Bayern was not bothered because he contributed to those trophies. They wanted him to stay. Do you think our recruitment team would not have looked at his previous availability? They obviously thought we can work with it and I'm thankful they thought that way.

[Ghost Town]

Facts aren't a narrative though.  Injury, the game not being necessary, better players, etc etc is the narrative.  At some point the numbers are the numbers. 

And I think this gets away from the fact that he's a great player when he's on the field.  I just gave my reasoning for why I would be concerned if we required him to succeed and why I thought the transfer is odd.  That's my opinion.  Others are welcome to theirs.  I just don't think quibbling over factual stats is worth it but to each their own.

Lol, you're a strange fella

[Magix]

I think the issue with his availability would be resolved, in part, by addressing the availability of the group of Keita and Ox, which would be done soon I reckon.

[CHOPPER]

Number eh…

So 20/21 season that’s 132,180 seconds, on the pitch.

As we know it only takes a second to score a goal, he’s scored 1.

So he has a seconds to goal ratio of 132,180:1. Rubbish.

Add to the fact that he runs slower than time, his true time on the pitch is actually 178,964 seconds, making an even worserer, goal to games to seconds ratio. But we love him dearly.

Blah blah paragraph of soul destroying opinion….

Another paragraph with the bit about nay-sayers who turn out to be Reece’s and Greggs employees…

Chicken pox sock wanks

I’m his biggest fan, get the clown shoes John and a new motor for Thiago.

Numberwang, my opinion matters the most


Crossroads injuries, the Dahli Lama, Peter Purves.

Over to you Jurgen. We move on.

[Elzar]

 

I counter that by bolding a very specific sentence in your post and showing his xPASS rate is equivalent to Tomas Brolin, Peter Fear and Jose Camacho.

[Dave McCoy]

First of all, you said he played over 20 league games in three seasons. For all the talk of factual stats, that's not true. He's done it in 7 seasons.

And for me, if he achieves the same in the next 4 seasons with appearances in the CL, in most matches and certainly crucial matches, it's a punt well worth taken. He may be able to achieve more and that's a bonus for a player of his quality. If he contributes to a PL and a CL success in his next 4 years, do you think people will be bothered about how many league games he played (then or in the past)? Bayern was not bothered because he contributed to those trophies. They wanted him to stay. Do you think our recruitment team would not have looked at his previous availability? They obviously thought we can work with it and I'm thankful they thought that way.

League games?  Per the below it's only twice as I noted which was 16/17 and 18/19. 

https://fbref.com/en/players/77e84962/Thiago-Alcantara

[deFacto please, you bastards]

League games?  Per the below it's only twice as I noted which was 16/17 and 18/19. 

https://fbref.com/en/players/77e84962/Thiago-Alcantara

Are we looking at starts or matches played?

[Funky_Gibbons]

Yeah there's 7 season there where he played in over 20 matches.

[Dave McCoy]

Are we looking at starts or matches played?

I'm looking at league starts and total minutes.  In either metric it's only more than 20 twice as noted. 

[Funky_Gibbons]

20 x 90 = 1800-minutes.

[Dave McCoy]

20 x 90 = 1800-minutes.

Which has happened 4 times in his league career, not 7 so

[Funky_Gibbons]

Which has happened 4 times in his league career, not 7 so

Not twice either.

Also you’ve just changed the metric to minutes played. Going back to the post above, it said;

First of all, you said he played over 20 league games in three seasons. For all the talk of factual stats, that's not true. He's done it in 7 seasons.

Nothing about minutes played or games started, just games played, which is +20 on 7 occasions.

[Dave McCoy]

Not twice either.

Also you’ve just changed the metric to minutes played. Going back to the post above, it said;
Nothing about minutes played or games started, just games played, which is +20 on 7 occasions.

I think I've been pretty consistent in all of this but since I wasn't considering subs I can see where people would take issue.  My original statement was "more than".  Which based on either starts or minutes played is correct.

[PoetryInMotion]

Al would be proud of this one 

[Funky_Gibbons]

I think I've been pretty consistent in all of this but since I wasn't considering subs I can see where people would take issue.  My original statement was "more than".  Which based on either starts or minutes played is correct.

1801 minutes is ‘more than’ 20 league games, which still makes four seasons.

[Dave McCoy]

Al would be proud of this one 

Hah.  Since I'm not saying Thiago should or could have done more even in the face of all factual evidence otherwise I'd think he'd be more confused than anything else.

1801 minutes is ‘more than’ 20 league games, which still makes four seasons.

Fair enough.  Is being available for 20 league games 40% of the time instead of 20% of the time enough to change an opinion that if someone was only available that amount of time and was integral to a teams success that it might be a problem?  For me?  No.  If you think otherwise that's fair as well.

[Ghost Town]

When has anything supporting the use of the term "only available..." been proven so far?

[GreatEx]

These last two pages may just be the most boring in RAWK history. I was just hoping for news on when he might be back, instead it's one man's eternal failure to communicate.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

These last two pages may just be the most boring in RAWK history. I was just hoping for news on when he might be back, instead it's one man's eternal failure to communicate.

Klopp says back after the break

[Dave McCoy]

When has anything supporting the use of the term "only available..." been proven so far?

Might want to find some medical science people to discuss this with.  There's also some pretty good examples from our own clubs recent past that highlights this.

[Ghost Town]

Might want to find some medical science people to discuss this with.  There's also some pretty good examples from our own clubs recent past that highlights this.

I was talking about Thiago and your deft recasting of minutes played to 'only available...', even though we all know that players might be available but not play

But I concur with GreatEx. This is dull and boring stuff in the thread for a magician

[redgriffin73]

He's in London for the weekend with his family, hopefully all is on track with his injury. No crutches in sight at least!

[So… Howard Philips]

He's in London for the weekend with his family, hopefully all is on track with his injury. No crutches in sight at least!

Just hope he stays off the dance floor then.

[KirkVanHouten]

How is this debate around minutes still going. The distinction is pretty meaningless. A minute played in any competition is a minute that could be played in the league. We have a squad full of midfielders that need games. We don't need him to play every game. I'd be content with 1800 league minutes and all the CL knockouts.

It's also a strange comparison because Bayern have the luxury of being able to rest their best players in the league and play them in the CL games because of the gap between them and the rest. They also play 4 fewer league games per season than us because there are only 18 teams.

He played 1800 minutes for us last season in the league and that was after missing a huge chunk of the season with COVID and injury from Richarlison's attempted murder.

[Ghost Town]

How is this debate around minutes still going. The distinction is pretty meaningless. A minute played in any competition is a minute that could be played in the league. We have a squad full of midfielders that need games. We don't need him to play every game. I'd be content with 1800 league minutes and all the CL knockouts.

It's also a strange comparison because Bayern have the luxury of being able to rest their best players in the league and play them in the CL games because of the gap between them and the rest. They also play 4 fewer league games per season than us because there are only 18 teams.

He played 1800 minutes for us last season in the league and that was after missing a huge chunk of the season with COVID and injury from Richarlison's attempted murder.

Yep, but then everybody except one poster seems to be able to understand this

[Dave McCoy]

Yep, but then everybody except one poster seems to be able to understand this

A minute played in one competition could have been played in another with exactly the same outcomes every time?  Please prove this. 

Thankfully the club employ people that understand probability better than the average RAWK poster.

[Ghost Town]

A minute played in one competition could have been played in another with exactly the same outcomes every time? Please prove this. 

Thankfully the club employ people that understand probability better than the average RAWK poster.

Dude, you're like a sitcom character

[PoetryInMotion]

 

[Dave McCoy]

I guess we all get to laugh then so /shrug. 

A minute played in one competition COULD have been played in another is an unprovable statement and meaningless.  To then agree that as a sound thought and of course everybody should understand that is just nonsense. 

[Suareznumber7]

How do you not see that your entire premise is flawed?  If you came out with a stat that said he wasn't available for x number of league minutes due to injury then you'd have a point.  But just saying he's only played x amount of minutes without any context is meaningless. 

[newterp]

Some folks have said he missed training today - so it's unlikely he will be ready for the weekend. This means it will be another month long injury? Guessing it was worse than first reported.

[Dave McCoy]

How do you not see that your entire premise is flawed?  If you came out with a stat that said he wasn't available for x number of league minutes due to injury then you'd have a point.  But just saying he's only played x amount of minutes without any context is meaningless.

The context is future availability in relation to Thiago being "integral" to LFC which was what I was initially responding to in this thread.  I didn't just roll in here blabbing numbers because I'm bored....

[Nick110581]

Some folks have said he missed training today - so it's unlikely he will be ready for the weekend. This means it will be another month long injury? Guessing it was worse than first reported.

It’s only Tuesday.

Let’s wait and see.

[Ghost Town]

The context is future availability in relation to Thiago being "integral" to LFC which was what I was initially responding to in this thread.

You showed nothing about future availability or whether he will be integral or not

I didn't just roll in here blabbing numbers because I'm bored....

Ok, so you weren't bored...

[rocco]

No sign of him in Tuesdays training photos but Plenty of Trent

[PoetryInMotion]

If he's back for the United game, we should be fine.

[TAA66]

Wasn’t he pictured on crutches very recently? If that’s the case, I wouldn’t imagine he would be match fit for this weekend

[Nick110581]

Wasn’t he pictured on crutches very recently? If that’s the case, I wouldn’t imagine he would be match fit for this weekend

Don’t think so

[DelTrotter]

Sounds like it'll be a little while yet, Jurgen "doesn't know" when he'll be back and it "takes a little time" feels like one of those where the weeks will just pass and pass and suddenly he's been out ages. Massive blow.

[amir87]

A massive shame really. Was hoping for another masterclass at Old Trafford next week.