Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[rob1966]

If Cummings got sacked then he would have still worked but behind the scenes.

It’s up to each individual to do what they believe is right but I don’t think this is a valid excuse to bend / break the rules.

It was a complete shitshow like most things they touch but why would you trust a Tory in the first place ? Surely you assess the news and make own decisions.

No argument from me that just because Cummings did it, others should have too (Me Ma and stuck his hand in a fire springs to mind here), they should have followed the rules regardless. We all know they would have sacked him only as a front, but by not doing it, then there are people in the UK who will just think "fuck it" Look at the London lockdown, new variant spreading like wildfire, so what do they do? Leg it for the last trains out. This country is full of absolute idiots.

[Nick110581]

No argument from me that just because Cummings did it, others should have too (Me Ma and stuck his hand in a fire springs to mind here), they should have followed the rules regardless. We all know they would have sacked him only as a front, but by not doing it, then there are people in the UK who will just think "fuck it" Look at the London lockdown, new variant spreading like wildfire, so what do they do? Leg it for the last trains out. This country is full of absolute idiots.

This is the issue.

It’s the general arrogance of people in this country. Behaviour can stem from the Government but they have proved they can’t govern from day one (see PM saying he shook Covid patients hands).

I commented yesterday on people near me on seafront in massive groups of 6-10.

[Elmo!]

It’s a discussion following on from points made on last page why people are breaking the rules.

Thing is I think you are arguing with yourself. I haven't seen anyone on here even hint at saying it is a valid excuse. All people are saying is that it explains it. The country is full of idiots - there has been plenty of evidence of that over the last few years. If you give them a reason to do it they will take it. That is why it is so important that the Cummings situation should have been dealt with differently (i.e he should have apologised and been sacked).

[Schmidt]

No argument from me that just because Cummings did it, others should have too (Me Ma and stuck his hand in a fire springs to mind here), they should have followed the rules regardless. We all know they would have sacked him only as a front, but by not doing it, then there are people in the UK who will just think "fuck it" Look at the London lockdown, new variant spreading like wildfire, so what do they do? Leg it for the last trains out. This country is full of absolute idiots.

People are always looking for an excuse to get out of doing something they don't want to, Cummings just handed it to them.

[Fromola]

Think it would be counter productive to mandate mask wearing outside and just lead to less compliance.

It comes down to social distancing with masks outdoors. If you're avoiding busy areas and keeping away from people then you don't need a mask, but with the way things are now you shouldn't be in busy areas anyway if you can avoid it.

[rob1966]

People are always looking for an excuse to get out of doing something they don't want to, Cummings just handed it to them.

Exactly.

It's treated as a joke now what he did, that fat get Mike Brewer said on the latest Wheeler Dealers he was going to drive a car to Barnard Castle to check his eyesight.

[Fromola]

I don't think that had much to do with it.

People got bored, people got complancent, the government put out mixed messages and well as the whole the nation ain't to bright.

I think it was the first bank holiday in May Boris took all travel restrictions away in England (Scotland and Wales kept theirs). Up to that point people had been mostly staying in their local area. From then on the roads got busy again and thousands descended on the beach every day and started traveling all over the place because Boris said they could. This was before Cummings.

[Nick110581]

Thing is I think you are arguing with yourself. I haven't seen anyone on here even hint at saying it is a valid excuse. All people are saying is that it explains it. The country is full of idiots - there has been plenty of evidence of that over the last few years. If you give them a reason to do it they will take it. That is why it is so important that the Cummings situation should have been dealt with differently (i.e he should have apologised and been sacked).

I agree with you - think maybe I missed the point as certainly not arguing with anyone.

[Fromola]

This is the issue.

It’s the general arrogance of people in this country. Behaviour can stem from the Government but they have proved they can’t govern from day one (see PM saying he shook Covid patients hands).

I commented yesterday on people near me on seafront in massive groups of 6-10.

People do what they can get away with, or what they're allowed to do. This lockdown is a lot more lax than March because it's not as strict in terms of what's allowed and in terms of general enforcement.

The police can be dickheads and go after some easy targets (rather than the real culprits) which then goes viral on social media, but in general you wouldn't be able to fuck about the same in somewhere like Spain or Italy where the police are feared. Just getting people to wear a face covering is like pulling teeth in this country.

It's not just the Cummings thing. People in this country love finding loopholes and ways to get around the rules. I said as soon as the whole 'substantial meal' nonsense was brought in so pubs could open as restaurants that it'd just be abused. Then the government ministers help that by getting bogged down in arguments about scotch eggs. In the end you could probably just order a bag of pork scratchings and then sit and drink 15 pints the rest of the day.

[PaulF]

Exactly

Seems large numbers of the population are incapable of using their brains.

Never mind rules, it's just common sense or at least should be.

Good old British common sense....

[Mr Benn please?]

If Cummings got sacked then he would have still worked but behind the scenes.

It’s up to each individual to do what they believe is right but I don’t think this is a valid excuse to bend / break the rules.

It was a complete shitshow like most things they touch but why would you trust a Tory in the first place ? Surely you assess the news and make own decisions.

Look at last week with the schools reopening then closing within 24 hours of them being announced ‘safe’.

Lots of people do trust Tories sadly. That's one of the reasons why they won a huge majority in the election. So the Cummings incident undermined that trust collectively after people had generally been complying with the lockdown.

It came at the worst time - the weather was nice and before long people were off to the beach and out celebrating VE day. Then to compound this further they were actively encouraged to socialise in restaurants and pubs and go back into work.

Since then the Government's messaging has continued to be poor, but the Cummings incident will still be in people's minds now, and it continues to undermine the Government when they are telling people to stay at home.

[Elmo!]

I agree with you - think maybe I missed the point as certainly not arguing with anyone.

 

Only reason I'm arguing the point is because I don't want to see Cummings and Johnson absolved of any blame for it - not that I think that was your intention.

[Nick110581]

Only reason I'm arguing the point is because I don't want to see Cummings and Johnson absolved of any blame for it - not that I think that was your intention.

Fuck no. The Government haven’t done one thing right in the whole thing.

My point is people making up their own minds about stuff. But the issue is people will always bend the rules to suit them as we are a arrogant nation on the whole.

[Mr Benn please?]

Good old British common sense....

Yep. In this situation, where lives are at risk, encouraging people to use common sense and make their own judgements on what's right or wrong gives the Government an excuse to fall back when they mess things up.

The rules about what you can and can't do should be clear to everyone and consistently enforced. Pretty sure that in countries that have handled the pandemic the best, politicians wouldn't have been encouraging people to use their common sense.

[Devastatin' Dave]

to be honest I don't think the outcome of the virus/number of deaths would be different had Cummings not drove to Barnard Castle.

I’d suggest actively encouraging people to eat out (to help out) in an attempt to return to normality will have had a much larger effect on the public’s psyche.

[Nick110581]

Yep. In this situation, where lives are at risk, encouraging people to use common sense and make their own judgements on what's right or wrong gives the Government an excuse to fall back when they mess things up.

The rules about what you can and can't do should be clear to everyone and consistently enforced. Pretty sure that in countries that have handled the pandemic the best, politicians wouldn't have been encouraging people to use their common sense.

Exactly this - the rules should be clear.

But Johnson is chaotic and wants to be everyone’s mate. Look at Christmas when he ignored science/numbers and was actually going to allow 5 days of freedom.

[Guz-kop]

Exactly this - the rules should be clear.

But Johnson is chaotic and wants to be everyone’s mate. Look at Christmas when he ignored science/numbers and was actually going to allow 5 days of freedom.

Populist government. At all the key moments they have downplayed what is going on, right from January when he didn't attend cobra meetings to the stupid this morning interview to shaking hands to Cummings to eat out to holidays to late lockdown 2 to Christmas and now to schools with a record breaking u-turn after 24hrs.

I agree theres got to be a sense of common sense and responsibility to a large degree. But lots don't watch the news or analyse graphs on twitter or care about hospital bed numbers. Most people have busy lives and nowadays more than ever consume information in smaller chunks. Messaging just has to be on point from the start. None of this absolves anyone of personal responsibility of course. Two sides of the same coin

[Musketeer Gripweed]

In my experience, people who have behaved and kept within the rules from day one, will probably continue to do so. However, if the government do not keep their part of the bargain, and get the vaccination out as quickly as promised, even those people will bend the rules and get fed up with rules and regulations.

Those that haven't given a shit from day one will never change. No point even trying to converse with these pricks.

[Black Bull Nova]

to be honest I don't think the outcome of the virus/number of deaths would be different had Cummings not drove to Barnard Castle.

I’d suggest actively encouraging people to eat out (to help out) in an attempt to return to normality will have had a much larger effect on the public’s psyche.

There is a chip shop near us, you can order online, pick up your order, you wear a mask when you enter and mostly wait outside socially distanced whilst your order is prepared. Everyone I have seen has followed the rules and stood apart and kept apart.

Next door, the same chip shop has an eat in facility, in there you get people sitting eating without any protection, many of these are people who look like the sort of people who would not stand a chance if they developed covid.

This has become a symbol of this disease to me, confused thinking and consequently confused rules and two separate audiences, the careful/thoughtful/worried side and the don't give a fuck side whether based upon ignorance, a sense of confidence or 'no-one tells me what to do'. I would not want to put numbers on it but the general feel I get is about 48:52 albeit I would imagine there are many in both groups who are just slavish to families or influencers.

[Wabaloolah]

People can’t use that as a reason to break rules.

It’s not primary school.

I never said they should use it as a reason to break the rules but they saw a government advisor drive 250 miles across the country when he had symptoms of covid then went visiting Barnard Castle and came up with the reason that he was testing his eyesight.

He treated the whole thing as a joke, and Johnson just let him get away with it. It appeared that there was one rule for them and another for us.

I'm not saying it's a valid reason for ignoring the rules just that it sent out the wrong message

[Red_Mist]

Well...on Friday I emailed Roger Johnson off North West Tonight to tell him that my wife’s school was 60% full (as the news had just repeated the inaccurate mantra “schools are closed”). Then a couple of hours later my phone rings and a voice says, “hi Phil it’s Roger Johnson here”. What a fucking legend. Had a 15 minute chat with him about the issue and he said he’ll look into it. Tell you what, I really like Rog... he’s a decent journalist. Too many people classed as key workers, schools too full. Btw, I’ve nothing but sympathy for anyone who HAS to send their kid into school. It’s the ones who could easily keep them at home I’ve got an issue with. Roger’s on the case!

[Wabaloolah]

Well...on Friday I emailed Roger Johnson off North West Tonight to tell him that my wife’s school was 60% full (as the news had just repeated the inaccurate mantra “schools are closed”). Then a couple of hours later my phone rings and a voice says, “hi Phil it’s Roger Johnson here”. What a fucking legend. Had a 15 minute chat with him about the issue and he said he’ll look into it. Tell you what, I really like Rog... he’s a decent journalist. Too many people classed as key workers, schools too full. Btw, I’ve nothing but sympathy for anyone who HAS to send their kid into school. It’s the ones who could easily keep them at home I’ve got an issue with. Roger’s on the case!

totally agree with that, the key worker list should be seriously looked at as it is definitely being abused

[djahern]

There is a chip shop near us, you can order online, pick up your order, you wear a mask when you enter and mostly wait outside socially distanced whilst your order is prepared. Everyone I have seen has followed the rules and stood apart and kept apart.

Next door, the same chip shop has an eat in facility, in there you get people sitting eating without any protection, many of these are people who look like the sort of people who would not stand a chance if they developed covid.

This has become a symbol of this disease to me, confused thinking and consequently confused rules and two separate audiences, the careful/thoughtful/worried side and the don't give a fuck side whether based upon ignorance, a sense of confidence or 'no-one tells me what to do'. I would not want to put numbers on it but the general feel I get is about 48:52 albeit I would imagine there are many in both groups who are just slavish to families or influencers.

I lean toward this conclusion as well.

I don’t think the Barnard Castle incident led directly to people being less adherent to the lockdown back in spring, at least how most people interpret it anyway. It did contribute to it though in a less direct way in my eyes. From the moment of Cummings rose garden statement we increasingly hid our science experts from the daily briefings, they were cancelled about 6 weeks later I think? We then barely heard from them all summer.

This was at the exact time we had a proliferation of covid deniers and manipulators of statistics on social media. They gained control of the narrative for many people and it’s been a losing battle trying to change their point of view since we vacated the information space in early June - a space deliberately vacated by this government so they no longer had to answer questions regarding Dominic Cummings.

These are the people you’ve seen in your local chip shop, these are the people I saw this morning sitting in the waiting room of a garage for an hour oblivious to the risks. They’ve read on Twitter or social media that this isn’t as serious as they were first led to believe, our hospitals aren’t overloaded, lockdowns don’t work, and every identified case is false positive. We allowed these thoughts to proliferate all summer and all autumn. Now when we need to enforce a strict lockdown, we realise (or soon will) we lost a substantial proportion of the public to this covid denial nonsense months ago and we won’t convince them otherwise. They can tighten the rules all the want, it won’t make these people believe they are necessary and follow them.

[djahern]

Well...on Friday I emailed Roger Johnson off North West Tonight to tell him that my wife’s school was 60% full (as the news had just repeated the inaccurate mantra “schools are closed”). Then a couple of hours later my phone rings and a voice says, “hi Phil it’s Roger Johnson here”. What a fucking legend. Had a 15 minute chat with him about the issue and he said he’ll look into it. Tell you what, I really like Rog... he’s a decent journalist. Too many people classed as key workers, schools too full. Btw, I’ve nothing but sympathy for anyone who HAS to send their kid into school. It’s the ones who could easily keep them at home I’ve got an issue with. Roger’s on the case!

Isn’t the main problem that they’ve classed any kid without access to a laptop as vulnerable and so they go to school? Rather than expanded who is key worker? Or is it a bit of both?

You’d imagine the numbers of kids who don’t have access to a laptop isn’t very even across the UK either - with poorer areas now having a much higher number of kids attending schools than more affluent areas. And the less affluent areas are also the ones hit hardest by covid and the ones most likely requiring the strictest measures to get it under control. They need to deliver these laptops and tablets that they promised months ago. 

[redbyrdz]

Isn’t the main problem that they’ve classed any kid without access to a laptop as vulnerable and so they go to school? Rather than expanded who is key worker? Or is it a bit of both?

You’d imagine the numbers of kids who don’t have access to a laptop isn’t very even across the UK either - with poorer areas now having a much higher number of kids attending schools than more affluent areas. And the less affluent areas are also the ones hit hardest by covid and the ones most likely requiring the strictest measures to get it under control. They need to deliver these laptops and tablets that they promised months ago. 

I think they broadened the categories. Anyone working in higher education at a university is now a "critical worker" and can send their kids to school. Last year's spring, higher education was mostly closed (apart from covid research). I wouldn't be surprised if the other exempt professions, ie construction and manufacturing, would also count as critical workers.


We have been told though it was up to the school whether to accept kids in.  Though the shools probably think that as they have to give face-to-face classes anyway, it's better for the kid's interaction and learning if more of them are in.

[redbyrdz]

Strange idea, but is having schools 50% full not actually a good thing? If every year was 50%, that would help with distancing inside the school, but on the other hand those kids not in school won't feel singled out. I understand that teachers have to do two sets of lessons and would rather everyone was in the same place, either in or out. But maybe it's actually working out ok?

[carling]

These are the people you’ve seen in your local chip shop, these are the people I saw this morning sitting in the waiting room of a garage for an hour oblivious to the risks. They’ve read on Twitter or social media that this isn’t as serious as they were first led to believe, our hospitals aren’t overloaded, lockdowns don’t work, and every identified case is false positive. We allowed these thoughts to proliferate all summer and all autumn. Now when we need to enforce a strict lockdown, we realise (or soon will) we lost a substantial proportion of the public to this covid denial nonsense months ago and we won’t convince them otherwise. They can tighten the rules all the want, it won’t make these people believe they are necessary and follow them.

Very true.  Unfortunately a lot of it boils down to people not understanding what makes a covid death a covid death.  Something I've never been able to get my head around.

[TSC]

On sky news the Minister for Vaccine deployment ‘Zahawi’ says government don’t want to invoke a ‘tougher’ lockdown.  This comes obviously as reported fatalities race towards 6 figures and new cases are c 50k each day.

[Nick110581]

Think it’s a matter of time until tougher restrictions.

It’s the same old process - mention on morning briefings, leak to media, wait a couple of days then say there was no choice.

[redbyrdz]

There is a chip shop near us, you can order online, pick up your order, you wear a mask when you enter and mostly wait outside socially distanced whilst your order is prepared. Everyone I have seen has followed the rules and stood apart and kept apart.

Next door, the same chip shop has an eat in facility, in there you get people sitting eating without any protection, many of these are people who look like the sort of people who would not stand a chance if they developed covid.

This has become a symbol of this disease to me, confused thinking and consequently confused rules and two separate audiences, the careful/thoughtful/worried side and the don't give a fuck side whether based upon ignorance, a sense of confidence or 'no-one tells me what to do'. I would not want to put numbers on it but the general feel I get is about 48:52 albeit I would imagine there are many in both groups who are just slavish to families or influencers.

That reminds me of a "delayed gratification" experiment. The researchers sat a nursery-age child on a table in an empty room. They gave them a marshmallow on a plate and said, if they could wait with eating it until they (the researchers) returned, they'd get a second one. Then they left the room and secretly filmed the kid. Some kids found this easy, some couldn't do it at all and ate it the moment the door closed. Some tried all possible ways of stopping themselves from eating it, sat on their hands, turned their back, hold their eyes shut. Some tried cheating, they licked it and put it back or ate a little bit from the bottom. The study then followed the kids and their progress in life. They found that those kids that could wait at a young age, and didn't touch the marshmallow, generally did better in school and in life.

[Carllfc]

Think it’s a matter of time until tougher restrictions.

It’s the same old process - mention on morning briefings, leak to media, wait a couple of days then say there was no choice.

What kind of tougher restrictions?

[Nick110581]

What kind of tougher restrictions?

- Curfews
- Nurseries being closed
- Support bubbles being banned
- The public told to wear masks outside
- Exercise limited to one hour

Not sure on Construction sites, etc.

As I say, it follows the standard procedure of blaming public and admitting restrictions may get tougher but doesn’t want to speculate. This causes stress and anxiety to many.

Leaks to media today & in place Wednesday.

Rinse and repeat from this Government.

[Carllfc]

- Curfews
- Nurseries being closed
- Support bubbles being banned
- The public told to wear masks outside
- Exercise limited to one hour

Not sure on Construction sites, etc.

As I say, it follows the standard procedure of blaming public and admitting restrictions may get tougher but doesn’t want to speculate. This causes stress and anxiety to many.

Leaks to media today & in place Wednesday.

Rinse and repeat from this Government.

Thanks. People won’t listen to exercise limited to 1 hour though.

 I’m going into work as normal still but have to wear a mask going into the building but can take it off when I am in my seat. Just wondering will they make it so you have to wear masks indoors all day even if you are sat 2 metres away from other people in an office.

[redbyrdz]

- Curfews
- Nurseries being closed
- Support bubbles being banned
- The public told to wear masks outside
- Exercise limited to one hour

Not sure on Construction sites, etc.

As I say, it follows the standard procedure of blaming public and admitting restrictions may get tougher but doesn’t want to speculate. This causes stress and anxiety to many.

Leaks to media today & in place Wednesday.

Rinse and repeat from this Government.

Looking at the traffic this morning, can't see any if that making a difference. Maybe closing nurseries, but most likely that will just mean the kids get dropped off at the grandparents or other relatives.

[reddebs]

Well...on Friday I emailed Roger Johnson off North West Tonight to tell him that my wife’s school was 60% full (as the news had just repeated the inaccurate mantra “schools are closed”). Then a couple of hours later my phone rings and a voice says, “hi Phil it’s Roger Johnson here”. What a fucking legend. Had a 15 minute chat with him about the issue and he said he’ll look into it. Tell you what, I really like Rog... he’s a decent journalist. Too many people classed as key workers, schools too full. Btw, I’ve nothing but sympathy for anyone who HAS to send their kid into school. It’s the ones who could easily keep them at home I’ve got an issue with. Roger’s on the case!

My colleague who has flouted the rules since day one and who, like me has been furloughed during every lockdown has continued to send her 5yr old to school just because she could.

Her excuse for not following guidelines, visiting family and friends and going out for the day "I cant stay in the house all day".

[TepidT2O]

So here’s a very sad story...

Someone my wife works with closely  has a very elderly mother.  She has copd

His sister invited her over for Christmas Day (tier 3 but not far from tier 4).  His sister didn’t feel 100%, but still went ahead with Christmas Day.  You know how this is going to turn out now I’m sure.

Sister tested positive for coronavirus a couple of days later.

Come the start of January, they can’t get hold of mum.  They go round and she’s very unwell.  Now in icu, but she needs a ventilator, but she’s elderly and they have to make a choice over who to give it to as they don’t have enough.

He’s been told they they don’t expect her to recover. He’s been allowed to visit to say his goodbyes.

All so very sad and all so very predictable.

[AlphaDelta]

So here’s a very sad story...

Someone my wife works with closely  has a very elderly mother.  She has copd

His sister invited her over for Christmas Day (tier 3 but not far from tier 4).  His sister didn’t feel 100%, but still went ahead with Christmas Day.  You know how this is going to turn out now I’m sure.

Sister tested positive for coronavirus a couple of days later.

Come the start of January, they can’t get hold of mum.  They go round and she’s very unwell.  Now in icu, but she needs a ventilator, but she’s elderly and they have to make a choice over who to give it to as they don’t have enough.

He’s been told they they don’t expect her to recover. He’s been allowed to visit to say his goodbyes.

All so very sad and all so very predictable.

Thats hearbreaking, so very sad

[reddebs]

So here’s a very sad story...

Someone my wife works with closely  has a very elderly mother.  She has copd

His sister invited her over for Christmas Day (tier 3 but not far from tier 4).  His sister didn’t feel 100%, but still went ahead with Christmas Day.  You know how this is going to turn out now I’m sure.

Sister tested positive for coronavirus a couple of days later.

Come the start of January, they can’t get hold of mum.  They go round and she’s very unwell.  Now in icu, but she needs a ventilator, but she’s elderly and they have to make a choice over who to give it to as they don’t have enough.

He’s been told they they don’t expect her to recover. He’s been allowed to visit to say his goodbyes.

All so very sad and all so very predictable.

Very sad and how do you live with yourself after that.

[12C]

Spent a lot of time presenting the "rant" as "sweary," didn't it?

Almost as if it were an attempt to steer focus from the actual points being made...

Sweary as in bleeps?

MEN is the Liverpool Echo’s alcoholic parent paper.
Some great journalists mired in a shock clickbait culture.

[Nick110581]

Looking at the traffic this morning, can't see any if that making a difference. Maybe closing nurseries, but most likely that will just mean the kids get dropped off at the grandparents or other relatives.

I don’t really know the answer to it.

As discussed yesterday, people will always push the rules to suit them.