Author Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE  (Read 3507411 times)

Offline gazzalfc

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Is there any way they could suppress the figures seeing we are under different rules of the land now like they did during WW2 to keep bad news from the public with the emergency powers bill becoming law?

But I imagine that would be impossible to do in this day and age.

Nope. Figures have to be provided to the WHO and also hospital finance (even the NHS follows the same rules as private hospitals). Clinical coding is a global system and global number come direct from that

Offline TSC

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Newsnight saying they have changed the way they release the number of deaths each day and that may be the reason they were lower today.

In what way?  It’s fairly binary, you’re either dead or you’re not.  If details are going to be released inside same 24 hour period I don’t see how that can impact the numbers.

Edit: just noted west London red post above.  If that’s the case then today’s and potentially subsequent days will be inaccurate. 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 10:48:00 pm by TSC »

Offline Gnurglan

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Well Trump's approval rating is at its highest ever, so go figure. 

I think at times like this we want to believe the people in charge have got a handle on the situation.  I think sometimes there's benefit of the doubt, almost a sympathy vote for what they're dealing with. 

If you picture public opinion has swung behind some governments/recoiled against COVID-19.  But if they fumble the ball I reckon it will just as quickly swing back against them.

I wish I had faith in our leaders. But I will say this - if they have made the right call here, they will have done it pretty much on their own. Everyone else is going for a lock down. Not us. Should it be the right call I will be impressed. I really will change my opinion on the Prime Minister. If we are wrong, then the trust in his party may well collapse.

        * * * * * *


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Offline Iska

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They just said on Newsnight that the number of deaths is based on the family of the deceased agreeing that their loved one can be included in the count, so someone could die today but if the family doesn’t agree to the death being included in the statistics straight away it can take a few days to include that death in the numbers.
Why?  I can’t understand this at all.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Read my post properly. I hope there’s a trend.

Sincerely doubt it as the interventions won’t have any effect yet.
Yep. Any changes made now (or in the past) take at least 3 weeks (and probably 4) before they affect the death rate.
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I was referring to the one day drop in death rates but that is positive at surface level.  However theres a time lag factor more at play re case numbers as opposed to deaths.  While an emerging trend would obviously be great news, I’d be surprised if that materialised absent the control measures introduced this week.

Agreed. I’ve mentioned in a later post, even upward trends aren’t generally smooth.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Regarding masks if they do become out dated then donate them to poorer countries.
Or, just rotate the stock, surely.
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If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

Offline west_london_red

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Why?  I can’t understand this at all.

No idea, but that’s what they said.
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Offline Gnurglan

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You don't keep them in stock you have them on the wards. Then instead of prioritising their use you can use them on people with lower needs.

Wouldn't it be more sensible to have plans in place to mass produce masks at short notice. Have plans in place to convert existing production facilities to facilities that produce vital PPE in n emergency.



From a production perspective, it would be better to have a steady flow. Spikes are difficult to handle. Think about the current situation. Everyone wants the same things at the same time. Keeping slightly more on stock in hospitals is necessary. The question is how much?

        * * * * * *


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Excel centre being fitted for 4000 beds and a morgue. On Carole cadwalladr’s feed. Maybe this is old news now, but I’ve only jut seen it.
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Online oldfordie

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Are all these people stuck around the world being quarantined when returning. there were flights coming in from the USA the last time I checked yesterday, we should be isolating everyone of these people until we know they haven't got the virus.
Butlins is closed, use these sort of places to keep them isolated.
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They just said on Newsnight that the number of deaths is based on the family of the deceased agreeing that their loved one can be included in the count, so someone could die today but if the family doesn’t agree to the death being included in the statistics straight away it can take a few days to include that death in the numbers.

It also depends on how rigorously they test for Coronavirus and how they classify the death. In Italy for instance every post mortem tests for corona and if it is present it is included in the total. In this Country on average just under 1400 people die per day. That leaves a hell of a lot of wiggle room if you rate of testing is as low as ours.
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Online Eeyore

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From a production perspective, it would be better to have a steady flow. Spikes are difficult to handle. Think about the current situation. Everyone wants the same things at the same time. Keeping slightly more on stock in hospitals is necessary. The question is how much?

I was thinking more about keeping the raw ingredients available and having plans in place to switch from none essential to essential production of items.
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Offline Fordy

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Well Trump's approval rating is at its highest ever, so go figure. 

I think at times like this we want to believe the people in charge have got a handle on the situation.  I think sometimes there's benefit of the doubt, almost a sympathy vote for what they're dealing with. 

If you picture public opinion has swung behind some governments/recoiled against COVID-19.  But if they fumble the ball I reckon it will just as quickly swing back against them.

It's because it's giving firm end dates, 2 trillion bailout and telling people they will be back at work soon.

Offline Yosser0_0

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Extremely impressive if Dyson can manufacture 10,000 ventilators (+1,000 more donated) by the end of April.

Source? I doubt it to be honest.
Lee Trevino famously once held up a long iron during a lightning storm, claiming "not even God can hit a 1-iron"

Offline Gnurglan

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I was thinking more about keeping the raw ingredients available and having plans in place to switch from none essential to essential production of items.

Sure, I think people will have to learn from this and find better solutions. Clearly the current approach has its flaws.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline MKB

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They just said on Newsnight that the number of deaths is based on the family of the deceased agreeing that their loved one can be included in the count, so someone could die today but if the family doesn’t agree to the death being included in the statistics straight away it can take a few days to include that death in the numbers.

That's utterly bizarre.   But I've already heard of attempts to manipulate the figures.  A doctor (colleague of my partner) was complaining that they were told to record a death as "viral pneumonia" because the patient had not been tested even though the patient had the tell-tale Covid-19 symptoms.  So that's one that wasn't in the national stats.

Offline west_london_red

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Source? I doubt it to be honest.

It’s all over the BBC site, but yes I wouldn’t bet my life on it but that’s what they are saying.
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Offline west_london_red

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That's utterly bizarre.   But I've already heard of attempts to manipulate the figures.  A doctor (colleague of my partner) was complaining that they were told to record a death as "viral pneumonia" because the patient had not been tested even though the patient had the tell-tale Covid-19 symptoms.  So that's one that wasn't in the national stats.

It was literally said in the first couple of minutes of the programme so if someone wants to watch the beginning on IPlayer to make sure I didn’t misunderstand what Nick Watt said please feel free, but I’m pretty sure that’s what he said.
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Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Is there any way they could suppress the figures seeing we are under different rules of the land now like they did during WW2 to keep bad news from the public with the emergency powers bill becoming law?

But I imagine that would be impossible to do in this day and age.

The answer to your question? No.

Is it possible to 'massage' the figures - yes. Article below suggests how it might be done. Essentially if you don't test people then when they die they don't go into the statistics.

https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/japans-winning-its-quiet-fight-against-covid-19/

Do I think the government are doing this? No. From a political perspective they are trying to get people to take this seriously and follow the guidelines - keeping the figures low encourages complacency and undermines those efforts. From a data perspective if you look at the recoveries vs deaths graphs our graph is following a different pattern. China (at least from the beginning of Feb) always had a clear separation of having more recoveries than deaths. Spain had the two meet in the middle for c.5 days before recoveries started outstripping deaths. Italy had many more deaths than recoveries for about 5 days and then a sudden reversal in favour of recoveries. In contrast the UK has had 11 days of deaths outstripping recoveries - on the 24th 75% of our 'outcomes' were deaths. So if anything we are taking the opposite approach and biasing our testing towards the most unwell. 

Offline PeterJM

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They just said on Newsnight that the number of deaths is based on the family of the deceased agreeing that their loved one can be included in the count, so someone could die today but if the family doesn’t agree to the death being included in the statistics straight away it can take a few days to include that death in the numbers.
How would relatives know if their loved ones were or were not included on the stats? There’s no identity connected to the published stats so I find it hard to comprehend why a family would refuse.

Offline 24/7

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News from a country that up until now appeared to be bucking the trend.......Estonia......

- First death recorded - old lady on an island where there was a cluster of cases.

- 404 recorded cases, critical still in single figures - that's double the number of KNOWN cases in less than a week, they'd stopped testing a while back but thankfully now appear to have seen sense and are testing more widely again, setting up 'drive-thru' sites for a simple nasal swab

- in one hospital alone though, there are 90 medical staff now isolating and/or already infected - ninety. This is a small country!!!!

- the average age of a doctor in Estonia is c60......

- ferry links to Sweden were banned last week but the route to Finland has been operating daily, albeit restricted to nationals of Estonia and Finland........but Helsinki county is about to be cordoned off - nobody in or out (source: Postimees news in Tallinnn)


- land borders with Latvia and Russia are all closed and have been for some time

- Estonia started practising (albeit not very well) social distancing two weeks ago but brought something of a hammer down yesterday, announcing new measures (which thankfully people appear to be largely observing)


On 12 March 2020 the Government of the Republic of Estonia declared an emergency situation to contain the spread of the coronavirus. On 24 March the government adopted additional measures to stop the spread of the virus.

As of 25 March:

    in public places and indoor spaces (except at home), keep a distance of at least 2 metres with other people. Public places include playgrounds and open air sports facilities, beaches, promenades, biking and hiking trails.
    no more than 2 people at a time can gather in public places. The restriction does not apply to families moving around together and people in official public functions.

As of 27 March:

    only essential shops and services will remain open in shopping centres. Shops and services that will remain open include grocery stores, pharmacies, communications service providers, bank offices, parcel lockers, and shops that either sell or lease equipment for the disabled and medical devices. Eateries at shopping centres can only sell take-away food. At the entrances of all shops and service points that will stay open, disinfectants must be provided.
    restaurants and bars cannot be open later than 10 pm (except for take-away and delivery).
    entertainment and leisure locations will be closed.

These restrictions are subject to review in two weeks.

Following the measures of the emergency situation is the obligation of each and every person. This is the only way we can protect ourselves, our close ones, and the most vulnerable part of the Estonian population: our older generation and people with chronic illnesses.

If you have questions, read more at kriis.ee/en or call 1247.

Protect yourself and your close ones!

Government of the Republic of Estonia

Too little too late, I fear. The horse has already run itself ragged through the country, starting a month ago when one guy arrived in Riga from Iran and took a fucking bus to Tallinn.......then a basketball team from Italy attended a tournament on Saaremaa, where there is a cluster of cases including a friend of mine.......

Oh and just for shits and giggles, my partner's mother is a GP and one of her patients tested positive, plus the neighbours have just announced today that they've been "feeling unwell" for some time - so today we got tested. Results tomorrow.  :-X

To think, a year ago my biggest fear was being two hours up the road from Narva, where the Russians invaded from last time.......

Offline RAWK Meltdown #1

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As far as the death with "no underlying conditions" issue is concerned, my own take on this is that there quite obviously ARE people within the medically "healthy" spectrum that this virus can take out, whereas there are some who can prevail and recover alongside those who show little to no symptoms or negative affects.

Not professing any medical expertise here, but there is obviously "something" unique to each individual which aside from any "underlying conditions" or not, is predisposing everybody to varied outcomes in the event that they contract the virus.

Either this, or else there are "degrees" of severity at which even "healthy" people can become overpowered by the virus....IE The heavy cold, as opposed to just a plain old cold.

I know these are just our layperson figures of speech which we use to try and explain the severity of our seasonal maladies to each-other etc...but I wonder if there ARE degrees in severity to this virus, and whether or not it is in these instances that even relatively healthy people can succumb and be overpowered by it?

If however, there are NO significant "degrees" of infection, and you either catch it or you don't and thereafter, it's just down our individual immune systems fighting the good fight for us, and either winning that fight or losing it.....then doesn't this present a kind of secondary reality to this virus which means that...

 .....even though it presents a much more diminished fatality rate amongst the "healthy," it will still stalk the "healthy" and for what appear to be lesser understood reasons.....it will still overpower SOME who contract it.

I guess what I'm saying is that whilst the focus is understandably on the vulnerable demographic, this virus is also having (albeit lesser) success with those who are deemed to be "healthy."

So not to sugar coat this, an unknown section of the "healthy" are unknowingly vulnerable to this virus, and (pre-vaccine-availability).... totally dependent on their own immune systems or predisposed biology as to whether or not this virus may become either a killer, or merely something that gave them some rather mild and temporary symptoms which soon abated.

So as the reports continue, and these cases of "no underlying symptoms" or even the non-typical age group deaths are reported, it should be noted that, however non-typical, this is ALSO part of this virus's repertoire and what it's capable of.

Statistically, the "healthy" may be a less at risk demographic, but there obviously IS still some risk and some will be compromised.

Ending on a positive note however, knowing this, realising it and accepting it....should just make us all the more vigilant and pro-active in maintaining our health with good diet, exercise and any and all positive strategies we can muster to boost our immune systems to the max.

If the virus finds you, then let it find you "ready for the fight."

 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 11:26:54 pm by ...anything will do. »
YNWA

Offline rafathegaffa83

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I did not have The Cheesecake Factory in my COVID Economic Fallout bingo as the 1st company to say they won't pay rent to their landlords
https://la.eater.com/platform/amp/2020/3/25/21194144/cheesecake-factory-rent-strike-chain-restaurant?

Offline Wabaloolah

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Are all these people stuck around the world being quarantined when returning. there were flights coming in from the USA the last time I checked yesterday, we should be isolating everyone of these people until we know they haven't got the virus.
Butlins is closed, use these sort of places to keep them isolated.
I don't think so, our borders are open for business
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline west_london_red

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How would relatives know if their loved ones were or were not included on the stats? There’s no identity connected to the published stats so I find it hard to comprehend why a family would refuse.

I’m only passing on what they said, as I said in another post it was in the first couple of minutes of the programme so watch it on iPlayer in case I misunderstood what they said.
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Offline filopastry

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I don't think so, our borders are open for business

Given we probably have well over 100k cases here now and international travel is drying up pretty quickly I'm not sure I would see the point of testing travellers arriving in the UK at this stage in the outbreak anyway.

Offline Yosser0_0

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It’s all over the BBC site, but yes I wouldn’t bet my life on it but that’s what they are saying.

Here?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52021757

This is the quote that caught my eye in that article:-

Some industry insiders have suggested that Dyson's approach to create a new model will take too long.
Lee Trevino famously once held up a long iron during a lightning storm, claiming "not even God can hit a 1-iron"

Offline Wabaloolah

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Source? I doubt it to be honest.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-52021757

5000 in the next two weeks and tens of thousands in the coming months according to the article
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline PeterJM

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I’m only passing on what they said, as I said in another post it was in the first couple of minutes of the programme so watch it on iPlayer in case I misunderstood what they said.
Sorry,I only quoted your post to keep my reply relevant. I wasn’t having a pop at you personally. 👍

Offline Wabaloolah

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GP and one of her patients tested positive, plus the neighbours have just announced today that they've been "feeling unwell" for some time - so today we got tested. Results tomorrow.  :-X

To think, a year ago my biggest fear was being two hours up the road from Narva, where the Russians invaded from last time.......
fingers crossed for you both fella
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline west_london_red

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Here?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52021757

This is the quote that caught my eye in that article:-

Some industry insiders have suggested that Dyson's approach to create a new model will take too long.

There’s a more recent article on the BBC News app (sorry, not sure how I can provide the link)
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Offline PeterJM

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Here?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52021757

This is the quote that caught my eye in that article:-

Some industry insiders have suggested that Dyson's approach to create a new model will take too long.
I hope they’re more reliable than his vacuum cleaners.

Offline west_london_red

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Sorry,I only quoted your post to keep my reply relevant. I wasn’t having a pop at you personally. 👍

I know mate, but I am being serious, have a look yourself as I might have misunderstood what they said too.
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Offline Yosser0_0

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-52021757

5000 in the next two weeks and tens of thousands in the coming months according to the article

That's the same article!

That 5000 is from the Smiths Group, NOT Dyson, read it again. The article is misleading and seems like a publicity stunt by Dyson. He won't be able to get a design approved and manufactured in that time, their engineers won't even be familar with the regulations. The one approved in Wales is the best shout in my view.
Lee Trevino famously once held up a long iron during a lightning storm, claiming "not even God can hit a 1-iron"

Offline west_london_red

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That's the same article!

That 5000 is from the Smiths Group, NOT Dyson, read it again. The article is misleading and seems like a publicity stunt by Dyson. He won't be able to get a design approved and manufactured in that time, their engineers won't even be familar with the regulations. The one approved in Wales is the best shout in my view.

Coronavirus: Government orders 10,000 ventilators from Dyson https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52043767

This is the recent article
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Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Oh and just for shits and giggles, my partner's mother is a GP and one of her patients tested positive, plus the neighbours have just announced today that they've been "feeling unwell" for some time - so today we got tested. Results tomorrow. [/size] :-X

To think, a year ago my biggest fear was being two hours up the road from Narva, where the Russians invaded from last time.......

Kinell best wishes to you and yours mate.

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I did not have The Cheesecake Factory in my COVID Economic Fallout bingo as the 1st company to say they won't pay rent to their landlords
https://la.eater.com/platform/amp/2020/3/25/21194144/cheesecake-factory-rent-strike-chain-restaurant?
every time I’ve wanted to go to one I’ve not bothered due to the wait time, must be horrendously run if that’s the case

Online oldfordie

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I don't think so, our borders are open for business
Crazy, we will be forced to take action soon. this virus is going to run riot in the USA.
@David__Osland
Leaving the European Union has completely destroyed the Conservative Party. If that doesn't qualify as a concrete Brexit benefit, what does?

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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This looks bad for the US

https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest

The Coronavirus trajectories look grim
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.