Topic: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)

[OsirisMVZ]

Tegan Nox has done her ACL, what, 3 times now?  Good worker but she'd be a real risk.

She's got knees like Danny Ings.

ACL 2017, ACL + MCL 2018, ACL 2020.

I remember the second time against Rhea she broke down crying in the ring saying "I can't do it again", regarding the rehab and physiotherapy. To do it 3 times is nuts, she's got guts alright but yes what a risk.

AEW's womens scene is so much better than it was a year ago, which is a shame for the recently fired WWE women, but I'm sure there'll find some spots somewhere else.

WWE have fired 82 people this year, and Adam Cole + Bryan Danielson letting their contracts expire shouldn't be forgotten either. You could genuinely start up a 3rd national level company with the cuts.

[btroom]

shame impact is so small time now can't take them seriously with boring stage and 50 people in the arena

[Sheer Magnetism]

Gonna be a 10 man Royal Rumble at this rate.

The company is in dire shape creatively. How long before that influences things financially?

I think they're going to reunify the brands and the championship belts quite soon and the releases are prepping for that.

[Barefoot Doctor]

I think they're going to reunify the brands and the championship belts quite soon and the releases are prepping for that.

Merging the rosters makes sense. They've still got loads of talent, but each roster is quite thin (or Smackdown certainly is, below Roman/Drew).

[Stockholm Syndrome]

She's got knees like Danny Ings.

ACL 2017, ACL + MCL 2018, ACL 2020.

I remember the second time against Rhea she broke down crying in the ring saying "I can't do it again", regarding the rehab and physiotherapy. To do it 3 times is nuts, she's got guts alright but yes what a risk.

AEW's womens scene is so much better than it was a year ago, which is a shame for the recently fired WWE women, but I'm sure there'll find some spots somewhere else.

WWE have fired 82 people this year, and Adam Cole + Bryan Danielson letting their contracts expire shouldn't be forgotten either. You could genuinely start up a 3rd national level company with the cuts.

I think some of the Mia Yim, Ember Moon, and Tegan will be picked up, maybe all 3 but at least 1 of them. I believe in particular Mia and Ember we're all a big part in AIW which is a Mideast promotion based around Ohio and a lot of the current roster went through there (Ruby Soho, Ethan Page, Britt Baker), and so are quite close to them.

Also you mention those who left this year, that also doesn't include Gargano and O'Reilly who also sound like they are going to be off in December, almost assuredly again to AEW (they are already teasing O'Reilly). And then early 2022 there is likely Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn too

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Sorry I just want to touch on the the 82 people release again

Currently there are 43 people on Raw, and 36 people on Smackdown, a total of 79 people on the main roster.

WWE have released more people than then currently have on their main roster

The Raw number as well includes the 24/7 geeks, MVP, and Commodore Kato

[tubby]

They absolutely should be trimming the fat though, and there's only really around 10% at best of the released talent who would be legit good pick ups for a rival like AEW.  If they hadn't shit themselves about AEW and bought up all the indie talent they could find then they wouldn't be in this mess.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

They absolutely should be trimming the fat though, and there's only really around 10% at best of the released talent who would be legit good pick ups for a rival like AEW.  If they hadn't shit themselves about AEW and bought up all the indie talent they could find then they wouldn't be in this mess.

I do agree that they had to trim the fat but it really has swung the opposite way now, in that the main roster is absolutely threadbare now through both the releases and the booking.

Yes of the talent released only a handful are good pick ups for AEW but the ones they got (excluding Cole and Bryan cause they were never released) have been so far great successes.

Of the November releases I can see them picking up a few but not that many. Lee if he is healthy I think is a definite. I can also see Swerve Scott/Shane Strickland. And at least 1 of the women released.

[amir87]

John Morrison must really hate this company.

[El Lobo]

John Morrison must really hate this company.

I dunno, he feels like one who must have actually made a shit tonne of money without ever being particularly important. A bit like R-Truth and Matt Hardy (when he was there) in spending well over a decade there, getting regular TV time and doing not much at all really.

On a similar note, Dolph Ziggler must have thought 'this is it' constantly for about the last 6 years.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Well his wife is extremely pissed off at the company in any event.

[tubby]

I can understand the wrestlers being frustrated at being cut, and Danielson was spot on when he said that talent should be able to get out of their contract if WWE can just fire them anyway, it should go both ways.  The independent contractor stuff is garbage.

But I think from this point on, anyone who signs with that company can't really complain if they do get dropped by them.  It's clear as day for everyone how they operate now.

[Malaysian Kopite]

With the ROH releases as well there really is a market for another mid or higher level promotion

[Riquende]

Well his wife is extremely pissed off at the company in any event.

Can't help but think about an interview she did in June, having signed in April, that WWE was the best place for talent to be and she'd always aimed to be there. She's entitled to any opinion she wants on that, but having already had several rounds of cuts at that point it struck me as pretty tone-deaf and I even left a comment on an article along the lines of "let's see how she feels in early '22 once she's had the boot". And it didn't even take that long!

On the subject of roster numbers and new promotions, AEW has 94 men on their page (but 2 of those are Brodie Lee and Jr) now. Plenty of them barely wrestle though (even Chavo is on there despite never having a match and immediately disappearing).

[I've been a good boy]

I can understand the wrestlers being frustrated at being cut, and Danielson was spot on when he said that talent should be able to get out of their contract if WWE can just fire them anyway, it should go both ways.  The independent contractor stuff is garbage.

But I think from this point on, anyone who signs with that company can't really complain if they do get dropped by them.  It's clear as day for everyone how they operate now.

If I was a young wrestler training to become a future star, WWE is the last place I'd go to. Seems like a bit of a toxic place these days.

[OsirisMVZ]

If I was a young wrestler training to become a future star, WWE is the last place I'd go to. Seems like a bit of a toxic place these days.

Right now they have no direction for on-screen talent, and I mean that in a sports-philosophy type way. Must be great to ride the gravy train in a corpo role though.

[Lynx the saucy mynx]

Does anyone think when Vince sells, he could sell WCW off separately for extra cash? I’d love to see it come back. And even if Vince doesn’t, there’s more chance the new owners might if someone stumps up the right cash.

Once WWE is sold in a few years, it’s the best chance yet WCW comes back.

People say AEW is the spiritual successor. I just don’t see it. I feel like WCW was prime Torres, while AEW is Kuyt or Origi. Great and trustworthy and is there at the right moments, but nowhere near Torres at his peak.

[OsirisMVZ]

AEW will probably last longer than WCW (what was it, 13 years? Several indies and even TNA have outlived that) but whether the spark ever gets brighter, who knows. Ratings are a whole different ball game nowadays but I think the industry has room to boom even more insularly as it goes.

I disagree with the comparison of AEW being Kuyt or Origi though    Its a lot better than first thought and is the cure for lapsed fans. They're also planning west coast and Uk expansions for next year

[Lynx the saucy mynx]

AEW will probably last longer than WCW (what was it, 13 years? Several indies and even TNA have outlived that) but whether the spark ever gets brighter, who knows. Ratings are a whole different ball game nowadays but I think the industry has room to boom even more insularly as it goes.

I disagree with the comparison of AEW being Kuyt or Origi though    Its a lot better than thought and is the cure for lapsed fans.

I honestly feel there is a billionaire somewhere (not some sportswashing type) that grew up watching WCW, who would love to restart it again. The problem is, if they approached Vince McMahon they wouldn’t get a sniff at it. He likes it dead (while he’s in charge of WWE that is).

But once he sells (and it gets more likely with every batch of releases) it’s fair game. Yes, the new owners would love the appeal of all its archive content and merch. But money talks.

And I feel if someone were to acquire the WCW rights, with all the trademarks and relaunch it post Vince WWE, it would appeal to a lot of people. A lot of wrestling fans got into wrestling because of WCW, and stopped watching when it went under.

And yes, I get the Kuyt Origi analogy may not be for everyone haha. But I feel there’s a difference between lapsed wrestling fans and lapsed WWE fans.

Eric Bischoff says lapsed wrestling fans from the 90s watch cable news and Netflix because of the more real promos by news anchors and rich storytelling on Netflix. As well as UFC for the buzz of a fight that you would get from Rock v Austin, or Goldberg v Hogan. He says the audience is out there. 4m people tuned into Smackdown fox debut because of The Rock. 2m watch now. They are out there.

Whereas the lapsed wwe fan is people who watch wrestling but just not WWE. It’s why the forbidden door appeals to people as those fans know who these NJPW people are.

The lapsed wrestling fan just wants sports entertainment done better. WCW did that with the NWO. While the lapsed wwe fan likes AEW, because it’s an augmented version of NXT. AEW haven’t got over a million viewers since September.  It’s a better alternative to WWE, but it’s not setting the world alight.

I feel a consortium post a Vince McMahon WWE that approaches NBC/Disney and buys the WCW rights with a vision of giving a Sports Entertainment product that has rich storytelling, fun events like Bash at the Beach, and just the overall tenets that make WCW great,  is what could happen in the next decade. But also get us near what we used to have. The Bischoff mantra of SARSA. Story, Anticipation, Reality, Suspense, Action.

Eric Bischoff has said he is doing a study on where wrestling fans went, and how to get them back. Someone on his podcast jokingly said he could sell the findings to a company for a million dollars. That hypothetical consortium would be a good bet.

[El Lobo]

Does anyone think when Vince sells, he could sell WCW off separately for extra cash? I’d love to see it come back. And even if Vince doesn’t, there’s more chance the new owners might if someone stumps up the right cash.

Once WWE is sold in a few years, it’s the best chance yet WCW comes back.

People say AEW is the spiritual successor. I just don’t see it. I feel like WCW was prime Torres, while AEW is Kuyt or Origi. Great and trustworthy and is there at the right moments, but nowhere near Torres at his peak.

Nah WWF, WCW and ECW of the 90s were like Dalglish, Rush and Barnes. AEW is like Torben Piechnik.

[tubby]

Agree that there's scope for a third big promotion right now, but I wonder if it's better for the indies to start to thrive again and get more traction.

[Lynx the saucy mynx]

Agree that there's scope for a third big promotion right now, but I wonder if it's better for the indies to start to thrive again and get more traction.

I am all for indies thriving as it’s good for the business. But the indies like with AEW is suited for a specific audience. I can’t imagine WCW or WWF back in the day having someone of Jay Lethal’s stature turn up to a big segment on ppv, and then main event the next show.

People have this feel that Sports Entertainment isn't good because how WWE present it. WCW were prepared to have Dennis Rodman have his divorce live on TV opposite Wrestlemania. And used to events at Club La Vela for Spring Break.

There's definitely scope for someone else to do what WCW did once again. No rankings, forbidden doors, mark friendly matches. Just good old Sports Entertainment it used to be.

However, it would be a bonus if whoever did that got the rights to WCW when Vince sells. Events like Starrcade, Bash at the Beach, Halloween Havoc (not this NXT watered down version). It would bring mainstream attention.

Imagine in 2025, 30 years since the last big wrestling event took place on a beach since Bash at the Beach 1995, we see an event on a beach to kick off the return of WCW. Just like they did the first Nitro in a mall.

And the reason I say this, watch any YouTube video about the AOL/Time Warner merger that ended WCW. WCW isn't mentioned once but the comment section is filled with it. There's section of society still heartbroken about WCW no longer existing. It would be the ultimate comeback story in wrestling if it came back.

And the best part - the closer we get to WWE being sold, the biggest hope of that happening since 2001 gets closer.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

The thing is, WWE if it is sold, won't be to another billionaire, it'll be to NBC or Disney or Fox. And honestly if anything if a billionaire is to buy the rights to WCW IP's, it'll be Ted Turner or the Khan's on the back of wishes from Cody (he really wants them).

Funny thing is there was the mention of the Billionaire who loved WCW back in the day, Tony Khan is the Billionaire who loved ECW.

I don't hold much idea in Bischoff to be honest - a lot of his recent history is one of spectacular failure (end of WCW, TNA, and his 6 weeks on Smackdown where he was apparently hated by everyone and seen as just lazy).

I don't believe those casual fans are there anymore - the fans who were teenagers to early twenties in the attitude era are all middle aged now, they're either moved on or still watching seemingly by WWE ratings. A lot of the younger lapsed WWE fans are the likes who when they were teenagers had big pushes to the likes of Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, baldy Kurt Angle, and the returning Shawn Michaels - while it was far from a pure wrestling company there was a lot of emphisis on great technical wrestlers (probably the best of all time) and then later the likes of Punk and Bryan. I know certainly for myself that's how it went; I remember a few big big moments from the end of the attitude era but honestly most of my memory is from the Ruthless Aggression era and then the Punk/NXT era, and then around Uni started watching more Indie and NJPW. Unsurprisingly AEW is quite my bag.

So it kind of makes sense that there is a certain degree of love for AEW.  The actual real casual fans are your "tik tok generation" and honestly, wrestling just isn't cool for them.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Also I find it incredibly insulting to be comparing Kuyt to Origi - love them both and maybe this is me having rose tinted glasses towards the past but I think it's a disservice to Kuyt to mentioned him with Origi 

[Lynx the saucy mynx]

Also I find it incredibly insulting to be comparing Kuyt to Origi - love them both and maybe this is me having rose tinted glasses towards the past but I think it's a disservice to Kuyt to mentioned him with Origi 

I compare Kuyt to Origi simply for one word (mainly an American sports term). Clutch. They are both clutch.

When the chips are down, you could have prime Brazilian Ronaldo, Dalglish and Maradona on the pitch, but I'll always bet on Kuyt or Origi to come through.

In terms of ability, I see the 3 aforementioned as WCW. But the two clutch players as AEW.

[Lynx the saucy mynx]

The thing is, WWE if it is sold, won't be to another billionaire, it'll be to NBC or Disney or Fox. And honestly if anything if a billionaire is to buy the rights to WCW IP's, it'll be Ted Turner or the Khan's on the back of wishes from Cody (he really wants them).

Funny thing is there was the mention of the Billionaire who loved WCW back in the day, Tony Khan is the Billionaire who loved ECW.

I don't hold much idea in Bischoff to be honest - a lot of his recent history is one of spectacular failure (end of WCW, TNA, and his 6 weeks on Smackdown where he was apparently hated by everyone and seen as just lazy).

I don't believe those casual fans are there anymore - the fans who were teenagers to early twenties in the attitude era are all middle aged now, they're either moved on or still watching seemingly by WWE ratings. A lot of the younger lapsed WWE fans are the likes who when they were teenagers had big pushes to the likes of Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, baldy Kurt Angle, and the returning Shawn Michaels - while it was far from a pure wrestling company there was a lot of emphisis on great technical wrestlers (probably the best of all time) and then later the likes of Punk and Bryan. I know certainly for myself that's how it went; I remember a few big big moments from the end of the attitude era but honestly most of my memory is from the Ruthless Aggression era and then the Punk/NXT era, and then around Uni started watching more Indie and NJPW. Unsurprisingly AEW is quite my bag.

So it kind of makes sense that there is a certain degree of love for AEW.  The actual real casual fans are your "tik tok generation" and honestly, wrestling just isn't cool for them.

Damn, everything you said there was spot on. Every paragraph. In fact it's so spot on that it's disheartening. Kind of burst my WCW comeback dream 

Ted Turner has dementia, and might not be around for much longer. I can see his son Teddy.  And Cody just wants his dad's creations, such as Bash at the Beach, Wargames, Starrcade The Great American Bash.
As much as I would like Cody buying it, my worry is he absorbs it into AEW.

One person I could see buying it is RedCapital who invested into us and FSG. The Rock saw the value in the XFL brand, and might quite be up to building WCW again.

The median age for WWE I hear is in the 60s, so some of those attitude era fans probably still watch. But the tiktok generation is a problem for even football 90 minute games going forward.

It will take rich storytelling and the Bischoff SARSA method. I'm not aware of what happened with Eric in TNA, but I don't blame him for the end of WCW. Guy Evans book Nitro absolves Bischoff of any blame. It was people in Turner Broadcasting who wouldn't even let him say the word "stupid" on TV after a meeting in 1998.

As Bischoff says, as long as human nature has a biological stimulus, where if people are at an event, and a fight breaks out in the crowd and everyone diverts their attention to that instead, the audience for wrestling will be out there. Netflix and UFC do Eric Bischoff's SARSA method in their own way. They tap into that part of the human brain that AEW and modern day WWE can't, but WCW did. The audience is out there, there just isn't those natural psychological components bringing them in.

Those people are out there, they are watching Netflix and UFC. Only WCW were able to capture that imagination, which led to WWF copying SARSA.

 And I hope WCW returns and recaptures it one day. As faint as that hope is

[ToneLa]

[btroom]

Survivor series where nothing at stake But only to promote rock's film without him being there and battle royal winner gets pizza.    who watches this shit

[tubby]

Rock surely coming in to solve the egg mystery and then build to Roman.  Else what's the point.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

I think he must be coming in, but it is hilarious that on the apparent night dedicated to him, The Rock did more for TNA that WWE this weekend, as he had a video on the show for Ken Shamrocks induction to TNA HOF or some shit

Edit: shows how much I pay attention to TNA, that was apparently last year, but people were talking about it now (even before SS) so I thought it was this weekend.

[amir87]

Rock surely coming in to solve the egg mystery and then build to Roman.  Else what's the point.

Vince finally managing to shoehorn a storyline about an egg after all these years.

[mkferdy]

The state of WWE storytelling I wouldn’t be surprised if the egg was taken by the gobbledy gooker

[gazzalfc]

Everyone knows who stole the egg



'I did it for the Rock'

[Barefoot Doctor]

Someone jumped the barriers at Raw last night to attack Seth Rollins. Properly went for him, but was quickly subdued by the refs and other security - mad. Been arrested now.

In other news, the ridiculous egg storyline ended up being a way to give Austin Theory a title shot, with him then losing to Big E in the main event last night. Weird stuff.

[tubby]

Looks like it was just Netflix giving them money to promote Rock's new film with the egg.  Sigh.

[Wild Romany Boy]

Looks like it was just Netflix giving them money to promote Rock's new film with the egg.  Sigh.

Kind of a sign of modern day WWE:

Lots of money making capacity that then has a knock on effect on their creative storytelling.

Don't even mention anything around The Rock if he's not going to be in the building.

[OsirisMVZ]

In other news, the ridiculous egg storyline ended up being a way to give Austin Theory a title shot, with him then losing to Big E in the main event last night. Weird stuff.

I think by their standards that can be classed as a long-term storyline!

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Someone jumped the barriers at Raw last night to attack Seth Rollins. Properly went for him, but was quickly subdued by the refs and other security - mad. Been arrested now.

In other news, the ridiculous egg storyline ended up being a way to give Austin Theory a title shot, with him then losing to Big E in the main event last night. Weird stuff.

From what I have seen someone else got escorted out as well, and was apparently Seth's gear maker/stylist(?) Who apparently attacked the attacker.

[Wild Romany Boy]

From what I have seen someone else got escorted out as well, and was apparently Seth's gear maker/stylist(?) Who apparently attacked the attacker.

I think Seth did well to stay in character afterwards.

[btroom]

Someone jumped the barriers at Raw last night to attack Seth Rollins. Properly went for him, but was quickly subdued by the refs and other security - mad. Been arrested now.

In other news, the ridiculous egg storyline ended up being a way to give Austin Theory a title shot, with him then losing to Big E in the main event last night. Weird stuff.

wwe is so bad now its not even funny. its like they sacked decent writers as well.