Author Topic: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles  (Read 143060 times)

Offline Zeb

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Re: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles
« Reply #2800 on: August 28, 2019, 10:22:49 pm »
Rees-Mogg would have got on very well with the gentlemanly Raglan but he would have thought Cardigan a cad and a bounder.

;D

Wonder what he'd have made of Chamberlain at the time? Punch, 1938
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles
« Reply #2801 on: August 28, 2019, 10:23:23 pm »
Yorky will be along shortly to reply to you with an example or two of the power of actual political leadership and message. But you didn't read the last ten he posted for you, either.


Well sorted then, we will just wait for that messiah to turn up and when he or she does, I am sure we will win a referendum then.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles
« Reply #2802 on: August 28, 2019, 10:24:52 pm »
Probably doesn't sound like a think tank idea because deliberative democracy is a pretty old idea, and not British even in its most recent incarnation. Easier to reject attempts to find compromise as shite when you need the cliff edge to force another referendum, I suppose.

You'd have to ask Jen for what solutions they proposed. I can only guess because a lot of this is baked in so far that even ditching freedom of movement isn't enough for the Lexiters to be taken seriously by their right wing fellow travellers any more.

I'm not rejecting it solely because it supposedly attempts to find compromise, but because it's just a paper-thin idea. There would be controversy and claims of bias regarding the appointments to such a Citizens Assembly, the Brexiteers would generally dismiss it as yet another attempt to frustrate the will of the people and in the same vein, will question why the public need to be consulted again after a clear message was delivered in 2016.

If you're going to reject no-deal but also reject any thought of another ref or direct revocation, then you'd better have some good ideas of your own. A Citizens Assembly isn't one.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles
« Reply #2803 on: August 28, 2019, 10:27:50 pm »
It was one of the worst political campaigns I can ever remember.  An incoherent, jumbled mess.

So Leave voters were entirely dependent on the official campaigns then? Completely incapable of independent research?

Offline alonsoisared

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Re: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles
« Reply #2804 on: August 28, 2019, 10:33:43 pm »
It's unrealistic to expect everyone in the country to properly research before they vote. There's not a country in the world that would happen in and I doubt many do it any more than Brits do. Even if they tried, it's complicated and hard to know who to believe. It's on the people we vote in to deal with these issues on our behalf.

Offline Zeb

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Re: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles
« Reply #2805 on: August 28, 2019, 10:37:59 pm »
I'm not rejecting it solely because it supposedly attempts to find compromise, but because it's just a paper-thin idea. There would be controversy and claims of bias regarding the appointments to such a Citizens Assembly, the Brexiteers would generally dismiss it as yet another attempt to frustrate the will of the people and in the same vein, will question why the public need to be consulted again after a clear message was delivered in 2016.

It avoids the referendum campaign while not missing out on any of the other issues which come with a referendum. It's a solution to try and minimise further division and to try and increase engagement in the democratic process itself. One of the most damaging parts of this whole thing, which likes of Will Jennings are flagging up, is that our pretty much longterm stable attitude towards Parliament and politicians has collapsed since 2016. That's obviously ugly for a representative democracy. In any case, ideas of trying to minimise division are rapidly becoming moot, if they are not already, given Johnson's approach can only ramp things up further. Additionally, main reason that this sort of idea won't take off is, purely politically, there's no incentive to allow a compromise to be found now whether the WA gets passed at the last moment or not.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline John C

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Re: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles
« Reply #2806 on: August 28, 2019, 10:40:33 pm »
It makes sense to lock this for a bit so the main discussion can continue in a single thread.

Offline 24/7

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Re: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles
« Reply #2807 on: August 29, 2019, 09:18:37 am »
It makes sense to lock this for a bit so the main discussion can continue in a single thread.
Plus there's only so much cuntishness one can handle at any one time on one site. Unelected rogue PM without a mandate sends his country hurtling towards an outcome nobody voted for and on the back of a referendum that was advisory and non-binding anyway.

Democracy in tatters :wanker

Offline planet-terror

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Re: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles
« Reply #2808 on: October 1, 2019, 06:50:38 pm »
The new sentencing policy of serious offenders having to serve two-thirds of their sentences. Will this be on new offenders or does it extend to serious offenders currently serving sentences?
bollocks

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles
« Reply #2809 on: October 1, 2019, 06:59:05 pm »
The new sentencing policy of serious offenders having to serve two-thirds of their sentences. Will this be on new offenders or does it extend to serious offenders currently serving sentences?
What is so depressing is that we’ve been down this route before under successive Tory governments.  And crime goes up.

Sentencing doesn’t deter crime.

Being tough on the causes of crime prevents crime... labour should use that as a slogan ...
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Offline planet-terror

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Re: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles
« Reply #2810 on: October 1, 2019, 07:21:01 pm »
What is so depressing is that we’ve been down this route before under successive Tory governments.  And crime goes up.

Sentencing doesn’t deter crime.

Being tough on the causes of crime prevents crime... labour should use that as a slogan ...
It's populist propaganda. And it works.  That's a massive vote winner for sure and will be plastered all over their tabloid mouthpieces to gain maximum exposure. There's libraries of research over the last century that shows that harsher sentences don't work but that won't appease portions of the publics appetite for hard time, throw away the key and bring back hanging fantasies.
Unfortunately that doesn't answer my question [emoji23][emoji23]
bollocks

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles
« Reply #2811 on: October 1, 2019, 10:11:40 pm »
It's populist propaganda. And it works.  That's a massive vote winner for sure and will be plastered all over their tabloid mouthpieces to gain maximum exposure. There's libraries of research over the last century that shows that harsher sentences don't work but that won't appease portions of the publics appetite for hard time, throw away the key and bring back hanging fantasies.
Unfortunately that doesn't answer my question [emoji23][emoji23]

I would imagine it would only apply to those sentenced after the law changes. Those sentenced prior to that date would serve their sentence under the rules existing at the time of sentencing.

Offline planet-terror

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Re: The Kingdom Untied - Pfeffel the Liar is STILL PM of these Sceptered Isles
« Reply #2812 on: October 2, 2019, 09:18:44 am »
I would imagine it would only apply to those sentenced after the law changes. Those sentenced prior to that date would serve their sentence under the rules existing at the time of sentencing.
thats what i thought :wave
bollocks