Topic: Racism in Football

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Probably a million reasons. Who would own it? How much would it cost? Who would police it? Ok....maybe like twelve reasons, but still. Its not a goer at all.

Give it to the PGMOL.

[Broad Spectrum]

I can’t believe this is still happening, I thought the social media boycott a few weeks back was going to make it all go away...? Maybe we should do another one and raise awareness around the issue, that should help.

Then make it like when you get a bank account, proof of identity, proof of address. If people genuinely want to engage with the players, they won't mind. I'm not having this privacy bollocks either, go on facebook and see how easy it is to get everything you need to create an identity from peoples wide open profiles and photos. DOB, schools, mothers maiden name, work, siblings, marital status and how many kids all there - some dicks even post pics of their houses with the house number/address showing.

We do need to be careful with this approach, these platforms are also used by many as a way to voice concerns over governments/regimes across the World. Social media platforms play an important role in providing whistleblowers the ability to be heard, look at how Russia recently threatened Twitter. I honestly think the start of the solution is the social media platforms themselves just immediately deleting accounts where racism is reported/recorded, they would have to allocate dedicated resources to do this but it would make a difference. Of course the racist fucks can set up another account but if they keep getting banned/deleted it would stop some of them.

Also, anyone remember when we used to communicate with the World without social media? For those very few athletes who actually use social media to interact with fans, why not utilise other outlets; TV, Radio, Magazines, Websites etc. They should all fuck them off until they sort this issue and actually show the World they give a shit. As I’ve already said in here though, sponsors of high profile athletes won’t allow it and the vicious cycle will continue.

[CraigDS]

I think it would make sense to not force people to provide ID, but to allow footballers, celebs, even normal people, to set it so only those who do provide ID can comment on their posts, DM them, etc if they wish to do so.

It would also allow those who want to remain anonymous for valid reasons to do so.

[El Lobo]

I think it would make sense to not force people to provide ID, but to allow footballers, celebs, even normal people, to set it so only those who do provide ID can comment on their posts, DM them, etc if they wish to do so.

It would also allow those who want to remain anonymous for valid reasons to do so.

Good plan Batman

[zimmie'5555]

I think it would make sense to not force people to provide ID, but to allow footballers, celebs, even normal people, to set it so only those who do provide ID can comment on their posts, DM them, etc if they wish to do so.

It would also allow those who want to remain anonymous for valid reasons to do so.

Doesn't really negate Broad Spectrum's point as it effectively creates de-facto two-tier social media in which those who are using it to give a voice to particular causes where they otherwise wouldn't, will be cut off from engaging with people that need to hear their voice. There are also still a lot of cases where people are actually using their real name and still exhibiting racist language or behaviour, even away from social media. People having to use their real names on social platforms will also just lead to a bunch of dog whistling rather than being outright racist, which doesn't effectively solve the issue in any realistic way.

[Red_Mist]

Can they not track down at least some of these twats? And when they do, it’s time to get medieval on them. I’m serious, bring back the stocks. Or tar and feather the c*nts and drag them through the streets. I’d spend hours happily pelting them with rotten fruit, then accidentally pick up half a house brick instead. Show their faces on the news. Read out their names. Anything to embarrass them. Then just lock the fuckers up with the maximum sentence possible every time. Honest to god, I’m sick to death of it. Absolute fuckin lowlife scum.

[zimmie'5555]

Can they not track down at least some of these twats? And when they do, it’s time to get medieval on them. I’m serious, bring back the stocks. Or tar and feather the c*nts and drag them through the streets. I’d spend hours happily pelting them with rotten fruit, then accidentally pick up half a house brick instead. Show their faces on the news. Read out their names. Anything to embarrass them. Then just lock the fuckers up with the maximum sentence possible every time. Honest to god, I’m sick to death of it. Absolute fuckin lowlife scum.

Sometimes they can, sometimes they can't. Occasionally the ones who can be tracked out end up doubling down and using it as a badge of honour and try to become online celebrities under the guise of free speech and end up making money from it.

[thejbs]

I think it would make sense to not force people to provide ID, but to allow footballers, celebs, even normal people, to set it so only those who do provide ID can comment on their posts, DM them, etc if they wish to do so.

It would also allow those who want to remain anonymous for valid reasons to do so.

This is sensible.

Anonymity should be available for those who require it.  Not everyone on social media is using anonymity to troll celebs, for many, it's an outlet in exposing tyranny and human rights abuses.  Anonymity can be a matter of life and death to some.

[Red_Mist]

Sometimes they can, sometimes they can't. Occasionally the ones who can be tracked out end up doubling down and using it as a badge of honour and try to become online celebrities under the guise of free speech and end up making money from it.

Christ, just when you think it can’t get even more depressing.

[zimmie'5555]

Christ, just when you think it can’t get even more depressing.

I mean, it's not like all of them do it, but there's a small percentage that definitely get off on it more if they're caught out. I think the best answer we have right now is ban the accounts that do it on the platforms they do it on, and possibly enforce an IP ban too, though of course VPNs exist so that's pissing in the wind a little bit. If it is possible to find out who it is, then make sure legal action is taken, if appropriate, or at least have legislature in place that their employers can be informed of what they've been doing. I think there are too many issues with enforcing the use of real names would cause other problems, as pointed out previously, and it's not really the cure-all that some may think it is. There's no easy answer, in short.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Can they not track down at least some of these twats? And when they do, it’s time to get medieval on them. I’m serious, bring back the stocks. Or tar and feather the c*nts and drag them through the streets. I’d spend hours happily pelting them with rotten fruit, then accidentally pick up half a house brick instead. Show their faces on the news. Read out their names. Anything to embarrass them. Then just lock the fuckers up with the maximum sentence possible every time. Honest to god, I’m sick to death of it. Absolute fuckin lowlife scum.

Social media is open for everyone. How you're going to track someone from Russia or Turkey or whatever? Racists on social media aren't just locals.

[Red_Mist]

Social media is open for everyone. How you're going to track someone from Russia or Turkey or whatever? Racists on social media aren't just locals.

Do they have any sort of feel for where they do live? Is it mainly overseas? If so, like you say tracking them down becomes potentially impossible or the onus switches to the social media company’s themselves.

[Medellin]

18 months later..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-57344621

[TSC]

https://news.sky.com/story/england-determined-more-than-ever-to-take-the-knee-at-euro-2020-after-being-met-with-boos-12325763

[Fitzy.]

https://twitter.com/RedMan6_19/status/1401580593939427331?s=20

[killer-heels]

For a while I felt the taking of the knee should have been phased out but hearing England fans boo and some of those Formula 1 c*nts (as well as those in Rugby) stand up makes me wish they continue to take the knee for a long while yet.

[buttersstotch]

For a while I felt the taking of the knee should have been phased out but hearing England fans boo and some of those Formula 1 c*nts (as well as those in Rugby) stand up makes me wish they continue to take the knee for a long while yet.

The problem we have is social media. Check out alt-right crack Joseph Paul Watson with over 1m Twitter followers - he is the sort of croon that encourages this sort of behaviour from people, whilst never setting foot in a football ground.

Really pains me to say that the black lives matter political movement and the take a knee gesture at sporting matches are two seperate things. Hate to say it but eventually taking the knee will be stopped and the scumbags will win and they know it.

[jillcwhomever]

It's up to all of us to make sure they don't win, if that means taking the knee stays in football for the conceivable future than so be it. Until it gets through to people the point needs to go on being made. As far as the Euro's are concerned they need to start identifying people who choose to boo and then they can be dumped outside if they are not prepared to show the respect they should.

[Garrus]

https://twitter.com/TheIDSmiths/status/1401877800823427074

 

[redgriffin73]

https://twitter.com/TheIDSmiths/status/1401877800823427074

 

Grealish killed me

[markmywords]

It's up to all of us to make sure they don't win, if that means taking the knee stays in football for the conceivable future than so be it. Until it gets through to people the point needs to go on being made. As far as the Euro's are concerned they need to start identifying people who choose to boo and then they can be dumped outside if they are not prepared to show the respect they should.

The problem we have is social media. Check out alt-right crack Joseph Paul Watson with over 1m Twitter followers - he is the sort of croon that encourages this sort of behaviour from people, whilst never setting foot in a football ground.

Really pains me to say that the black lives matter political movement and the take a knee gesture at sporting matches are two seperate things. Hate to say it but eventually taking the knee will be stopped and the scumbags will win and they know it.

This is part of the problem with these good intentioned gestures

They become the battlefield, football/clubs/authorities can ensure the knee is taken and this becomes the new "victory" and actual real remedies can be avoided.  We fought the good fight and against those that boo, not realising that many criticising the booing are a bigger part of the problem

[Sheer Magnetism]

It's up to all of us to make sure they don't win, if that means taking the knee stays in football for the conceivable future than so be it. Until it gets through to people the point needs to go on being made. As far as the Euro's are concerned they need to start identifying people who choose to boo and then they can be dumped outside if they are not prepared to show the respect they should.

But this is the problem. How do we 'win' in this? Taking a knee hasn't stopped racism and was never going to - it's actually proven counterproductive by showing trolls how useful it is in getting under players' skins. So now the only way to 'win' is to keep making a gesture with no external relation to racism in football, that you weren't making a year ago, when it clearly isn't working?

And the second point, about booing, just exemplifies how progressives just never learn. How many times do people need to be Streisand Effected before they get it? If stewards began trying to throw people out for booing during the knee, one of two things would happen:

1) Those fans decide to boo at kick off instead, or at a point during the game, which makes their point exactly the same way. At that point the only option is to throw out anyone who boos at a football match - something that makes anti-racists look authoritarian and plays into right-wingers' hands;

2) Those fans decide to do it anyway and the stewards are faced with the option of risking their safety by trying to throw out dozens of probably drunken fans at once, or calling in large numbers of security guards and having it likely spill over into physical violence which, once again, exacerbates the problem.

As far as I can see the only realistic option is to come up with concrete achieveable demands which don't affect the powerless in other areas (eg. removing online anonymity), such as mandatory lifetime stadium bans for racial abuse, and to have some kind of solid threat behind it like a general players' strike. Even then, you'd be inviting clubs to monitor their fans far more closely and giving them an excuse to crack down on 'troublemakers' of all kinds in the name of pre-emptive action. But you'll never be able to eliminate racism completely, any more than you would any other bad thought. You just find more effective ways of combatting it.

[jillcwhomever]

But this is the problem. How do we 'win' in this? Taking a knee hasn't stopped racism and was never going to - it's actually proven counterproductive by showing trolls how useful it is in getting under players' skins. So now the only way to 'win' is to keep making a gesture with no external relation to racism in football, that you weren't making a year ago, when it clearly isn't working?

And the second point, about booing, just exemplifies how progressives just never learn. How many times do people need to be Streisand Effected before they get it? If stewards began trying to throw people out for booing during the knee, one of two things would happen:

1) Those fans decide to boo at kick off instead, or at a point during the game, which makes their point exactly the same way. At that point the only option is to throw out anyone who boos at a football match - something that makes anti-racists look authoritarian and plays into right-wingers' hands;

2) Those fans decide to do it anyway and the stewards are faced with the option of risking their safety by trying to throw out dozens of probably drunken fans at once, or calling in large numbers of security guards and having it likely spill over into physical violence which, once again, exacerbates the problem.

As far as I can see the only realistic option is to come up with concrete achieveable demands which don't affect the powerless in other areas (eg. removing online anonymity), such as mandatory lifetime stadium bans for racial abuse, and to have some kind of solid threat behind it like a general players' strike. Even then, you'd be inviting clubs to monitor their fans far more closely and giving them an excuse to crack down on 'troublemakers' of all kinds in the name of pre-emptive action. But you'll never be able to eliminate racism completely, any more than you would any other bad thought. You just find more effective ways of combatting it.

The moment you stop doing this it's get forgotten. Or its just swept under the carpet, like other problems are. It's why especially now they need to be using the power of the cameras to forcibly identify those who are booing. Then concrete action can be taken against those people and stadium bans can be pushed through. For too long people try and say this problem is impossible to cure, football itself should work together at how it punishes people who cause this type of trouble. There seems to be a will among a number of clubs to do just that, so let's see the footballing authorities take the lead on this matter now.

[Craig S]

But this is the problem. How do we 'win' in this? Taking a knee hasn't stopped racism and was never going to - it's actually proven counterproductive by showing trolls how useful it is in getting under players' skins. So now the only way to 'win' is to keep making a gesture with no external relation to racism in football, that you weren't making a year ago, when it clearly isn't working?

And the second point, about booing, just exemplifies how progressives just never learn. How many times do people need to be Streisand Effected before they get it? If stewards began trying to throw people out for booing during the knee, one of two things would happen:

1) Those fans decide to boo at kick off instead, or at a point during the game, which makes their point exactly the same way. At that point the only option is to throw out anyone who boos at a football match - something that makes anti-racists look authoritarian and plays into right-wingers' hands;

2) Those fans decide to do it anyway and the stewards are faced with the option of risking their safety by trying to throw out dozens of probably drunken fans at once, or calling in large numbers of security guards and having it likely spill over into physical violence which, once again, exacerbates the problem.

As far as I can see the only realistic option is to come up with concrete achieveable demands which don't affect the powerless in other areas (eg. removing online anonymity), such as mandatory lifetime stadium bans for racial abuse, and to have some kind of solid threat behind it like a general players' strike. Even then, you'd be inviting clubs to monitor their fans far more closely and giving them an excuse to crack down on 'troublemakers' of all kinds in the name of pre-emptive action. But you'll never be able to eliminate racism completely, any more than you would any other bad thought. You just find more effective ways of combatting it.

Taking the knee was never meant to stop racism. No one action ever will..
It's purpose was to highlight and raise awareness of the racial inequality suffered by some. From that context it's difficult to argue it has not had an effect. There is far, far more discussion around racial inequality now than there ever has been, and more than just over a year ago when George Floyd died.
Even the "noise" around it from dickheads like Laurence Fox and Kelvin McKenzie adds to the awareness of social and racial inequality. and the booing demonstrates how far we still have to go.

[boots]

Every boo is the tear of a racist.

[markmywords]

The moment you stop doing this it's get forgotten. Or its just swept under the carpet, like other problems are. It's why especially now they need to be using the power of the cameras to forcibly identify those who are booing. Then concrete action can be taken against those people and stadium bans can be pushed through. For too long people try and say this problem is impossible to cure, football itself should work together at how it punishes people who cause this type of trouble. There seems to be a will among a number of clubs to do just that, so let's see the footballing authorities take the lead on this matter now.

Football needs to lead on this by using things like the Rooney rule  Trying to stop booing is a waste of energy, fans can boo using face masks and nobody can tell, I think the taking a knee gesture is worthless and a distraction from the real issues/solutions

[jillcwhomever]

Football needs to lead on this by using things like the Rooney rule  Trying to stop booing is a waste of energy, fans can boo using face masks and nobody can tell, I think the taking a knee gesture is worthless and a distraction from the real issues/solutions

It's not a worthless gesture, and as long as these footballers wish to continue it I support it. People who attack the use of the taking of the knee seldom have a different idea, to put in its place anyway. The world is full of people who continually rubbish these "pointless gestures" but rarely come up with anything else to take it's place.

[Andy82lfc]

As others have said, maybe if the tv channel editors had the balls to show these people booing close up it would make a lot think twice.

The majority are racists plain and simple. All being cowards like racists do by acting in crowds and are by hiding behind the 'ohhh it's just about politics' bullshit and other excuses.

[zimmie'5555]

The moment you stop doing this it's get forgotten. Or its just swept under the carpet, like other problems are. It's why especially now they need to be using the power of the cameras to forcibly identify those who are booing. Then concrete action can be taken against those people and stadium bans can be pushed through. For too long people try and say this problem is impossible to cure, football itself should work together at how it punishes people who cause this type of trouble. There seems to be a will among a number of clubs to do just that, so let's see the footballing authorities take the lead on this matter now.

As much as I feel comfortable saying that those booing are practically all racists, the idea of banning people for booing - even booing this gesture - is incredibly short-sighted and will only have a hugely damaging effect.

[boots]

Banning racists just entrenches them. Educating them helps them move forward. Education can be as simple as just talking to a black bloke and realising he is no different to you.

There should always be room for rehabilitation. Everyone makes mistakes. Thats how you learn and grow.

[zimmie'5555]

Banning racists just entrenches them. Educating them helps them move forward. Education can be as simple as just talking to a black bloke and realising he is no different to you.

There should always be room for rehabilitation. Everyone makes mistakes. Thats how you learn and grow.

Banning racists is necessary if it's banning someone for saying a racist thing in a public arena.

[markmywords]

It's not a worthless gesture, and as long as these footballers wish to continue it I support it. People who attack the use of the taking of the knee seldom have a different idea, to put in its place anyway. The world is full of people who continually rubbish these "pointless gestures" but rarely come up with anything else to take it's place.

True, I hate it when people do that, hence why I had a very specific replacement action that I indicated in my post

[WhereAngelsPlay]

This is part of the problem with these good intentioned gestures

They become the battlefield, football/clubs/authorities can ensure the knee is taken and this becomes the new "victory" and actual real remedies can be avoided.  We fought the good fight and against those that boo, not realising that many criticising the booing are a bigger part of the problem

It isn't a good intention gesture,it's a fucking protest by the players and it screams "Fuck You,You Racist c*nts."


Not all the people who boo are racists but the ones who boo and aren't are thick as shit,like that Tory (who is probably racist as well) prick who says he's not turning his TV on until it kicks off.

c*nt of a man.

[DangerScouse]

It isn't a good intention gesture,it's a fucking protest by the players and it screams "Fuck You,You Racist c*nts."


Not all the people who boo are racists but the ones who boo and aren't are thick as shit,like that Tory (who is probably racist as well) prick who says he's not turning his TV on until it kicks off.

c*nt of a man.

I'd argue they are all racist.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I'd argue they are all racist.

Easily argued,I just think that the boos will get less and less people as others start to ask




Those that would never ask that,well they can fuck off,don't give a shit about their feels.

[jillcwhomever]

True, I hate it when people do that, hence why I had a very specific replacement action that I indicated in my post

There is no reason why both things cannot happen it doesn't have to be one or the other does it?

[rob1966]

It's not a worthless gesture, and as long as these footballers wish to continue it I support it. People who attack the use of the taking of the knee seldom have a different idea, to put in its place anyway. The world is full of people who continually rubbish these "pointless gestures" but rarely come up with anything else to take it's place.

Agreed. Colin Kaepernick originally sat on the bench during the national anthem for 2 or 3 pre season games, to protest Police brutality and racism, he said he wasn't prepared to stand and show pride for the flag of a country that oppressed black people and people of colour and wanted to do something, this went unnoticed initially by his team mates and the media. His team mate Eric Reid wanted to join him in the peaceful protest and after speaking to former Green Beret and NFL player Nate Boyer, they decided to kneel, as it was more respectful than sitting on the bench.

People need to be educated on what taking the knee is really about, when it started and why.

[markmywords]

Agreed. Colin Kaepernick originally sat on the bench during the national anthem for 2 or 3 pre season games, to protest Police brutality and racism, he said he wasn't prepared to stand and show pride for the flag of a country that oppressed black people and people of colour and wanted to do something, this went unnoticed initially by his team mates and the media. His team mate Eric Reid wanted to join him in the peaceful protest and after speaking to former Green Beret and NFL player Nate Boyer, they decided to kneel, as it was more respectful than sitting on the bench.

People need to be educated on what taking the knee is really about, when it started and why.

The background is compelling

But the players have been very clear in distinguishing the reasons for their "protest" from colin Kaepernick's. 

This "Racism in football" thread is symptomatic of the whole discussion on racism, it has been hijacked by talking about people kneeling, if you are gonna take anything from NFL, take the rooney rule, which basically worked there, the kneeling as become a complete distraction and allows the focus to be taken away from the lack of representation in management/coaching.  I don't have any poster in mind, but I get the feeling some wouldn't want a more aggressive affirmative action policy, but may not have the nerve to admit it, so talk about Kneeling instead, they are happy for the distraction.

[12C]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/jun/09/ollie-robinson-twitter-racism-storm-obscures-ecbs-decades-of-inaction?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Not soccer, but an interesting take on how the ECB promised reform 20 years ago.

[rob1966]

Banning racists is necessary if it's banning someone for saying a racist thing in a public arena.

But it does nothing towards changing their views, they'll still be a racist, but they'll now be angry that they are banned from the place because of that person they abused, they may even wear it as a badge of honour.

The first thing that should be done is to try and educate them, get them to understand that what they think and feel is wrong. If at the end of the process they still won't change, then yes ban the fuckers for life.