Topic: Racism in Football

[didi shamone]

Gary Ratboy Neville having a pop at Johnson and denouncing racism has irked me greatly.

This is a guy who defended England fans booing every other teams national anthem just the other day. Xenophobia and racism are bedfellows and sociopaths like Neville need to be called out for being part of the problem.

Disrespecting people for their nationality and disrespecting them for their skin colour isn't an enormous difference.

[Coolie High]

Gary Ratboy Neville having a pop at Johnson and denouncing racism has irked me greatly.

This is a guy who defended England fans booing every other teams national anthem just the other day. Xenophobia and racism are bedfellows and sociopaths like Neville need to be called out for being part of the problem.

Disrespecting people for their nationality and disrespecting them for their skin colour isn't an enormous difference.

Strange post.

[RedKenWah]

It’s bonkers how racism is still so visibly present today. It’s depressing that the level of abuse that players will get from mindless idiots on social media platforms is known about but yet nothing is done.

Something needs to change as it’s quite frankly disgusting that some dickhead from wherever can just pop on Twitter, FB, insta and just post something so quickly yet so disgusting and basically get away with it. This govt and other countries need to get a grip of these social media tycoons and start laying the law down on them, they’ve had it far too easy for so long and made absolute billions (or trillions now?) and yet they should be pressured into making the changes. They can force shitty adverts on us via this with relative ease so they can resolve this issue.

[AndyMuller]

Can’t help but admire Rashford and well said Mings aswell.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Strange post.

Just a little bit strange.

[MrGrumpy]

It’s bonkers how racism is still so visibly present today. It’s depressing that the level of abuse that players will get from mindless idiots on social media platforms is known about but yet nothing is done.

When a country elects an openly racist prime minister (https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-record-sexist-homophobic-and-racist-comments-bumboys-piccaninnies-2019-6?r=US&IR=T) it will only embolden racists.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Where does the anger start from? Is this a mental health thing then? Or are people just really dangerous?

Ego massaging and general anger/depression turned outward horribly. These predominantly young white males who are anxious and scared about the state of the world get told they, by right, should get a good job, a good wife, a good house, etc.

But society is working against them to force unfair preferential treatment to blacks, LGBTQ+, and women. They perpetuate the idea that society is awful because they are allowing these people to run free, and unfairly attack white men.

It's cataclysmic lack of self awareness, and fragile egos to the point of not taking a joke or not understanding the attack on the "white male" isn't necessarily against all white men, but against the inherent benefits they receive for being white males. Instead they somehow twist efforts to equalise to them being the only marginalized group.

They defend their view by attacking everyone else - see blacks as criminals, see Arabs as terrorists with backwards laws, see LGBTQ+ as people with mental health issues, see women as "sluts". Attack them to prove that THEY are correct to take the moral high ground against society.

This is all driven by certain figure head cranks like Jordan Peterson, Alex Jones, Ben Shapiro,Nigel Frottage, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, and Donald Trump, and then spread via message boards.

They are very dangerous, and I feel that does stem from not releasing their anxiety over society in a healthy direction and instead into a bigotted direction which puts them as masters of all with no fault

[Skeeve]

Social media companies can & must do more to both prevent & ensure people racially abusing others are held to account.

They need to rely on more than just algorithms to do so as well, there needs to be more human involvement in their processes as you get them flagging stuff up with no consideration of context while missing subtler and more insidious stuff e.g. I got a hate speech warning on facebook for suggesting that americans seemed selfish in response to a post about a survey about vaccines and who should get them first where american responders were significantly more likely to want to get it for themselves over other options such as country with the greatest need.

[rob1966]

They've had to repaint the Rashford Mural in Withington due to racist shite being painted on it

[redgriffin73]

They've had to repaint the Rashford Mural in Withington due to racist shite being painted on it

I saw it had been covered with messages of support this morning. Can't believe people in his home city have vandalised it.

[Drinks Sangria]

They need to rely on more than just algorithms to do so as well, there needs to be more human involvement in their processes as you get them flagging stuff up with no consideration of context while missing subtler and more insidious stuff e.g. I got a hate speech warning on facebook for suggesting that americans seemed selfish in response to a post about a survey about vaccines and who should get them first where american responders were significantly more likely to want to get it for themselves over other options such as country with the greatest need.

Agreed, there's not nearly enough nuance to it or control over things. I oversee some of my company's social media accounts, recently there was a post on there that made hateful reference to Travellers, as in Gypsies. One of my team flagged the post as hate speech, Facebook hid the comment while they reviewed, then came back after a few weeks to say they found no evidence that the post held any reference to or allusion to any race, ethnic group or religion etc and unhid it.

Clearly an Americanised system that has no understanding of cultural nuance or the differences in different countries outside of the States. An embarrassing response.

[Keith Lard]

Absolutely destroyed her.

And Rashfords words?  They never fail to inspire.

I think he might be the only Manchester United player who will ever get a standing ovation at anfield

Agree man. I have a lot of respect for Marcus Rashford. Extremely smart, thoughtful and decent guy.

[boots]

It only takes 1 arsehole from 100,000 to be racist for it to look bad upon a community. Even we have racist fans amongst us.

[El Lobo]

It only takes 1 arsehole from 100,000 to be racist for it to look bad upon a community. Even we have racist fans amongst us.

Dyou not see how saying 'its not many though, just makes it look bad for everyone else' doesnt really help?

[reddebs]

It only takes 1 arsehole from 100,000 to be racist for it to look bad upon a community. Even we have racist fans amongst us.

That's a verbal shrug of the shoulders that's been happening for too long.

One out of however many thousands is still one too many!!

[scatman]

Agreed, there's not nearly enough nuance to it or control over things. I oversee some of my company's social media accounts, recently there was a post on there that made hateful reference to Travellers, as in Gypsies. One of my team flagged the post as hate speech, Facebook hid the comment while they reviewed, then came back after a few weeks to say they found no evidence that the post held any reference to or allusion to any race, ethnic group or religion etc and unhid it.

Clearly an Americanised system that has no understanding of cultural nuance or the differences in different countries outside of the States. An embarrassing response.

On the other hand, a food group I'm admin of, one of the posts made was about the Pineapples-Pizza banner - FB 'technology' reported that it had deleted one of the replies and marked it hate speech with the poster getting a 30 day ban and that we the admins were able to review the post and have it reviewed by FB community standards team. The reply was - "Italians, what the hell do they know about Pizza, it's better everywhere else" - we attempted to have it reviewed by the team (if one actually exists) and Facebook didn't allow it, they trust their technology was the response.

So it's pretty obvious whatever technology they have setup, the algorithms or whatever does not work. If you want to racism that is allowed on Facebook, just take a look at F1's page and the replies when Hamilton is the topic. Whatever these social media companies are doing, it does not fucking work. Everytime our club do something to support pride or womens football, the comments are just ahh and they never get censored.

[stevieG786]

how hard is it for social media platforms to input ID requirements in their registrations? i don't understand why this hasn't been implemented as of yet

[Fromola]

Ego massaging and general anger/depression turned outward horribly. These predominantly young white males who are anxious and scared about the state of the world get told they, by right, should get a good job, a good wife, a good house, etc.

But society is working against them to force unfair preferential treatment to blacks, LGBTQ+, and women. They perpetuate the idea that society is awful because they are allowing these people to run free, and unfairly attack white men.

It's cataclysmic lack of self awareness, and fragile egos to the point of not taking a joke or not understanding the attack on the "white male" isn't necessarily against all white men, but against the inherent benefits they receive for being white males. Instead they somehow twist efforts to equalise to them being the only marginalized group.

They defend their view by attacking everyone else - see blacks as criminals, see Arabs as terrorists with backwards laws, see LGBTQ+ as people with mental health issues, see women as "sluts". Attack them to prove that THEY are correct to take the moral high ground against society.

This is all driven by certain figure head cranks like Jordan Peterson, Alex Jones, Ben Shapiro,Nigel Frottage, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, and Donald Trump, and then spread via message boards.

They are very dangerous, and I feel that does stem from not releasing their anxiety over society in a healthy direction and instead into a bigotted direction which puts them as masters of all with no fault

Middle aged blokes are often as bad. That story from the Jewish fan because he had 'Rubenstein' on the back of his England shirt on Sunday and described 'a group of men in their 50's' outside the ground giving him antisemitic abuse and laughed at him when he said his Grandfather fought the Nazis.

And it was the older generations (as a majority voting block) who condemned the younger generations to Brexit and endless Tory governments and are often the most anti-immigration. It's a widespread problem.

[reddebs]

Middle aged blokes are often as bad. That story from the Jewish fan because he had 'Rubenstein' on the back of his England shirt on Sunday and described 'a group of men in their 50's' outside the ground giving him antisemitic abuse and laughed at him when he said his Grandfather fought the Nazis.

And it was the older generations (as a majority voting block) who condemned the younger generations to Brexit and endless Tory governments and are often the most anti-immigration. It's a widespread problem.

I'd agree on the age group too.  Those I know are predominantly in the 50+ age group though it's not exclusively them as I also know plenty of thick dickheads in their 30s but they're also the offspring of those 50+ lot 😁

[S]

With regards to racial abuse on social media, the more it is condemned the more it will continue to happen. That's how these platforms work. You can't give people total anonymity and then expect them to listen to what you say. Even with those using their real names it still isn't handled the same way as abuse in public is.

This is not limited to racism. There will always be a mass of social media users who will just go against anything.  Let's say a female referee got abused on Twitter and the FA condemned it. Next game she referees the abuse will double, because now it's something you're not supposed to do. For the lowlifes who spend their days trawling the internet for people to troll, it's an invitation.

The only way this could be changed would be if social media companies rigorously went after accounts that post such abuse. That's not going to happen, in fact I suspect that beyond their PR facades they're more or less fine with it being posted. An endless cycle of more clicks and scrolls.

I hate being one of those pretentious types who brags about not being on social media, but I made a serious realisation when I quit them all back in 2016. These corporations do nothing that I like. Literally nothing. These faceless companies continually express a total disregard for our sanity and wellbeing, and in return we carry on giving them more or less unrestricted access to our lives.

I despair at social media and urge everyone to leave it. Facebook and Twitter don't care about you, the rules aren't going to change.

[MD1990]

Racism has always been an issue & probably always will be sadly.

But has racism on social media actually got worse now? Or people are now speaking more about it.
Because just 5 years ago we heard of less social media abuse.

Now if a high profile BAME player has a bad game we have these morons racially abusing them.

Perhaps it is more so having Trump & Johnson as leaders who both fuelled racism which has given racists more confidence to racially abuse people.

[MD1990]

With regards to racial abuse on social media, the more it is condemned the more it will continue to happen. That's how these platforms work. You can't give people total anonymity and then expect them to listen to what you say. Even with those using their real names it still isn't handled the same way as abuse in public is.

This is not limited to racism. There will always be a mass of social media users who will just go against anything.  Let's say a female referee got abused on Twitter and the FA condemned it. Next game she referees the abuse will double, because now it's something you're not supposed to do. For the lowlifes who spend their days trawling the internet for people to troll, it's an invitation.

The only way this could be changed would be if social media companies rigorously went after accounts that post such abuse. That's not going to happen, in fact I suspect that beyond their PR facades they're more or less fine with it being posted. An endless cycle of more clicks and scrolls.

I hate being one of those pretentious types who brags about not being on social media, but I made a serious realisation when I quit them all back in 2016. These corporations do nothing that I like. Literally nothing. These faceless companies continually express a total disregard for our sanity and wellbeing, and in return we carry on giving them more or less unrestricted access to our lives.

I despair at social media and urge everyone to leave it. Facebook and Twitter don't care about you, the rules aren't going to change.

depends on how you use social media.
I just use Twitter & Instagram.
But i dont look at replys or interact much apart from DM's
Twitter i use for as  a news source. Just look at my feed for news really

[Bobsackamano]

So are we saying Twitter, Facebook, Instagram etc could sort out racism on their platforms but choose not to?

If thats the case surely everyone who gives their custom to these companies by having an account is complicit in this to a certain degree?

I personally wouldnt visit a pub if the landlord allowed the BNP to hold regular meetings at the establishment. I mean its wrong that i wouldnt be able to visit that pub anymore but its important that companies understand there is a price to be paid for allowing racism to flourish on their premises/platforms.

[S]

So are we saying Twitter, Facebook, Instagram etc could sort out racism on their platforms but choose not to?

If thats the case surely everyone who gives their custom to these companies by having an account is complicit in this to a certain degree?

I personally wouldnt visit a pub if the landlord allowed the BNP to hold regular meetings at the establishment. I mean its wrong that i wouldnt be able to visit that pub anymore but its important that companies understand there is a price to be paid for allowing racism to flourish on their premises/platforms.

I won’t speak for anyone else but that’s certainly what I’m saying.

The only reason it’s murky is because, unlike with your pub scenario, we don’t hand over any money to Facebook. Not explicitly. We just give them ourselves and all our privacy instead.

If Twitter charged £5 a month the entire mindset towards it would change.

[RyanBabel19]

Racism has always been an issue & probably always will be sadly.

But has racism on social media actually got worse now? Or people are now speaking more about it.
Because just 5 years ago we heard of less social media abuse.

Now if a high profile BAME player has a bad game we have these morons racially abusing them.

Perhaps it is more so having Trump & Johnson as leaders who both fuelled racism which has given racists more confidence to racially abuse people.

Its 100% got worse, not just seemingly worse because there is more spotlight on it.

The amount of abuse being thrown around is significantly worse, there is more conversation which naturally sparks other things but racial abuse has got worse online.

The whataboutism continues today. Anton Ferdinand states we shouldn't be able to host big tournaments if this is the result and it's just... 'why isn't he saying this about x, y and z'. It's always passing the blame or 'so and so isn't perfect either'.

[kloppismydad]

Unfortunately, all of this ultimately benefits the social media companies that profit off generating traffic. Incidents like these create a shitstorm, and people notice them and comment on them, which helps drive attention and traffic to these companies.

Right-wing propagandists across the globe have weaponized social media. I see it in the US, in the UK, in India, and I'm sure it's true for other countries too. RW governments in these countries will not actively pursue any stringent action since it may harm their carefully developed propaganda and fake news ecosystems.

Twitter is currently in a spat with the Indian government, with the government threatening to shut down the app in India. Will it happen? I highly doubt it since it's one of the main tools the government has to spread fake news or spread "their" messages.

If social media companies start requiring IDs to create accounts, they'll end up taking an axe to their leg, which is why I don't believe it'll happen.

[Fortneef]

hey but if you remove anonymity I won't be able to tweet Darren Grimes with my suggestions for things he could be doing instead of his grift.

I assure you they are very witty, if somewhat anatomically improbable and quite unhygenic.

[Bobsackamano]

I won’t speak for anyone else but that’s certainly what I’m saying.

The only reason it’s murky is because, unlike with your pub scenario, we don’t hand over any money to Facebook. Not explicitly. We just give them ourselves and all our privacy instead.

If Twitter charged £5 a month the entire mindset towards it would change.

We don't hand any money over directly because the users are the product and the advertisers are the customers.

If the users (who are the product) refuse to play ball then the social media companies will be forced to act as they will have nothing to sell to their customers.

Or if the customers (the advertisers) mount a boycott then that will have a similar effect the other way.

[S]

We don't hand any money over directly because the users are the product and the advertisers are the customers.

If the users (who are the product) refuse to play ball then the social media companies will be forced to act as they will have nothing to sell to their customers.

Or if the customers (the advertisers) mount a boycott then that will have a similar effect the other way.

Exactly. But again, the users won’t leave. They would leave in drones if they were paying subscriptions. Sort of like the pub example above.

Also, whilst the changes I outlined above would help things improve, Twitter don’t have to change anything. It’s not like they’re the BBC. They’re allowed to do whatever they want. It’s like when people complain about censorship on YouTube. I don’t know why people expect these platforms to be bastions of fairness and morality.

[killer-heels]

Exactly. But again, the users won’t leave. They would leave in drones if they were paying subscriptions. Sort of like the pub example above.

Also, whilst the changes I outlined above would help things improve, Twitter don’t have to change anything. It’s not like they’re the BBC. They’re allowed to do whatever they want. It’s like when people complain about censorship on YouTube. I don’t know why people expect these platforms to be bastions of fairness and morality.

Hence why government (ha) have to be the ones to do action. They need to ban social media platforms operating or make sure their sign up procedures are verifiable and able to be handed over.

That's the only way you are stopping it. There are no other practical solutions.

[Red-Soldier]

Hence why government (ha) have to be the ones to do action. They need to ban social media platforms operating or make sure their sign up procedures are verifiable and able to be handed over.

That's the only way you are stopping it. There are no other practical solutions.

Can really see our government do that.  Especially when one of their core 'values' is racism.

[S]

Hence why government (ha) have to be the ones to do action. They need to ban social media platforms operating or make sure their sign up procedures are verifiable and able to be handed over.

That's the only way you are stopping it. There are no other practical solutions.

Yeah, that’s more or less the only somewhat realistic solution I can think of.

[rob1966]

I'd agree on the age group too.  Those I know are predominantly in the 50+ age group though it's not exclusively them as I also know plenty of thick dickheads in their 30s but they're also the offspring of those 50+ lot 😁

No surprise. You think about it, most of the worst of the hooligans are now in their 50's and 60's. Also, the world we grew up in was a lot different, we were possibly the last generation where the use of words like n*gger, c*on, s*mbo, w*p and P*ki were just thrown about casually without anyone giving a shit.

[reddebs]

No surprise. You think about it, most of the worst of the hooligans are now in their 50's and 60's. Also, the world we grew up in was a lot different, we were possibly the last generation where the use of words like n*gger, c*on, s*mbo, w*p and P*ki were just thrown about casually without anyone giving a shit.

I genuinely thought we'd got past it in the 90s where I spent nearly a decade in multi cultural Sheffield.  My kids mates at school were from very differing backgrounds, all colours and creeds from all over the world and it was wonderful to see them integrate without hesitation.

It was only when I moved to Barnsley in 2001 that I realised it had never left us.  They were proud they were nothing like Sheffield and Rotherham who had refugees in their thousands from Somalia, Rwanda and Ethiopia to name just a few.

There was literally not one single person of colour at any of the schools in the village, where Paul or his mates worked or even any of the GP's.

A couple of Chinese takeaways and an Asian owned corner shop was the only "ethnics" in the area.

It was the influx of Eastern Europeans that seemed to send everyone over the edge.  They were taking our jobs, our houses, our school places and you couldn't get a doctors appointment for weeks cos it was full of them.

The nicest, friendliest, caring neighbours we had was a Romanian family who were with us for just over a year.  I was invited to join them for dinner, BBQs, breakfasts, drinks or a brew everytime we saw them and my granddaughter loved having someone to play with when she stayed even though she was 7 and David was only 4 and they couldn't understand a word each other said.  It was beautiful to see them just get on and she was gutted after they'd moved.

What I did realise was I didn't see or hear from any other neighbours whilst they were there, then heard about nothing but the trouble they'd caused and they were glad they'd gone.

Bear in mind this is the pit village, pretty much where the miners strike started, you couldn't get more left leaning, socialists of you'd cloned them.  I still have to correct Paul even now but it's like it's engrained in them.

It shocked me to be honest when I first moved there and I've no idea how it gets changed cos all those dickhead neighbours you're all sick of me moaning about we're all white, 30 somethings, males whose parents grew up with Paul and his mates so you know fuck all's changed.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Johnathan Pie his say
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI5nw1kYwdo

[Fromola]

Bear in mind this is the pit village, pretty much where the miners strike started, you couldn't get more left leaning, socialists of you'd cloned them.  I still have to correct Paul even now but it's like it's engrained in them.

It shocked me to be honest when I first moved there and I've no idea how it gets changed cos all those dickhead neighbours you're all sick of me moaning about we're all white, 30 somethings, males whose parents grew up with Paul and his mates so you know fuck all's changed.

These places are turning Tory now. Even Dennis Skinner lost his seat. This is the old 'Red Wall' crumbling.

Hartlepool went Tory in the by-election without the Brexit Party splitting the vote with the Tories. That's what happened in Barnsley (which has always been a Labour constituency). Looking at the last election Brexit Party got over 30% of the vote and Tories 22%. Labour hung on to the seat with 40%. If there was a by-election there tomorrow they'd probably get a Tory MP as they'd get most of the Brexit vote.

[reddebs]

These places are turning Tory now. Even Dennis Skinner lost his seat. This is the old 'Red Wall' crumbling.

Hartlepool went Tory in the by-election without the Brexit Party splitting the vote with the Tories. That's what happened in Barnsley (which has always been a Labour constituency). Looking at the last election Brexit Party got over 30% of the vote and Tories 22%. Labour hung on to the seat with 40%. If there was a by-election there tomorrow they'd probably get a Tory MP as they'd get most of the Brexit vote.

I'm aware of that mate my point is, that racism was always in them despite their socialist beliefs.

[So… Howard Philips]

I'm aware of that mate my point is, that racism was always in them despite their socialist beliefs.

Sadly there's a history of working class racism - Smithfield meat porters marching to complain about Ugandan Asians.

And how many black faces were seen working at the Docks in Liverpool?

[Fromola]

I'm aware of that mate my point is, that racism was always in them despite their socialist beliefs.

Yeah, point was more that it's not so much 'core left-leaning socialist' anymore with these places going Tory.

[OOS]

Yeah, point was more that it's not so much 'core left-leaning socialist' anymore with these places going Tory.

You can be left leaning and racist yeno ... People are complex.