Author Topic: The Klopp Template  (Read 1089098 times)

Offline Machae

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7400 on: January 3, 2023, 12:03:43 am »
Bed in where?

Neither will develop the pace needed to play wide in a Klopp system and neither will ever be strong, fast, or athletic enough to play in a Klopp midfield.

Minamino is a better version of Carvalho who scored 10 goals helping us win 2 cups, and he was sold because he isn't the profile of footballer we want.

Elliot is basically a worse, weaker version of Shaqiri who we're starting in midfield.

It's madness and if we want to get anywhere this season we need to completely abandon playing these tiny kids.

Their pace (or lack of) or physique would've been known to Klopp before they were signed so I doubt they would be sold or discarded now when not much has changed. They're young and need time to find their feet, exude confidence and play with their potential. The fact that so much is being asked of them when the team are playing shit, isn't their fault

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7401 on: January 3, 2023, 12:06:38 am »
It's true that I'm lazy and thick, but that's not the reason for my post ;)

As I said, a well-trodden path
So we should not question why we keep conceding the same kind of goals since August without any hint of it being fixed? We should not question why certain players keep getting picked in positions they are nowhere near good enough to play in? We should not question the decision not to sign a midfielder to fix the glaring hole we have in the middle of the park? We should not question why our best player is being asked to play in a system that basically nullifies his goal scoring exploits? We should not question why in the majority of games played since April we have conceded first?

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Offline AmanShah21

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7402 on: January 3, 2023, 12:07:15 am »
We have no midweek games in January for certain. There is time here to fix things and regroup but we have to get a reaction a consistent run of performances now.

Offline Stockholm Syndrome

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7403 on: January 3, 2023, 12:10:57 am »
I don’t think there’s any manager in the league as bad as Hodgson at the moment.

But I am readying myself for some twattish pundits throwing mediocre names around. Perhaps Carragher can throw a name in, considering his expert judgement led to that utter clown becoming our manager in 2010...

Already expect pundits to say we should get Thomas Frank or Marco Silva or Gareth Southgate or Tuchel in

Offline HeartAndSoul

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7404 on: January 3, 2023, 12:12:46 am »
At the moment we have only 2 league games in January- we absolutely need to be doing the work on the training ground to sort the systematic issue of conceding big chances. We now have enough players available (all the centrebacks, pretty much all the senior centre mids) for whatever system we need and some subs to help out- its time to pick a team and get some stability in partnerships and selections.

We had the full World Cup to work on it instead we done fuck all and have reverted back to the 433. Klopp/Ljinders seem stubborn about changing formation to suit the personnel we have and it’s hurting us. I would say our point total so far at this stage is flattering us considering how poor we’ve been. Surely they’re going into work after a game and working on things that opponents seem to be exploiting but no that doesn’t seem to be the case because the same thing is happening game after game. We’ve been behind 13 out of our 26 games this season. That’s another cause for massive concern.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7405 on: January 3, 2023, 12:16:34 am »
We have no midweek games in January for certain. There is time here to fix things and regroup but we have to get a reaction a consistent run of performances now.
We had a six week layoff with most of the team being rested to fix things in, we look worse now than right before the World cup break.
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7406 on: January 3, 2023, 12:18:30 am »
We had the full World Cup to work on it instead we done fuck all and have reverted back to the 433. Klopp/Ljinders seem stubborn about changing formation to suit the personnel we have and it’s hurting us. I would say our point total so far at this stage is flattering us considering how poor we’ve been. Surely they’re going into work after a game and working on things that opponents seem to be exploiting but no that doesn’t seem to be the case because the same thing is happening game after game. We’ve been behind 13 out of our 26 games this season. That’s another cause for massive concern.
It is not even the 4-3-3 that is the issue, it is how we play that 4-3-3 that is causing us problems. The inverted wingback, mezzala, wide target man bullshit that we seem intent on doing and cause a massive gap in our right side is back despite all the evidence showing it doesn't fucking work.

Don't get me started on picking Harvey in the midfield trio. We might have a better chance of winning by starting with ten men.
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Offline farawayred

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7407 on: January 3, 2023, 12:19:27 am »
We had a six week layoff with most of the team being rested to fix things in, we look worse now than right before the World cup break.
That's overreaction though, we've fixed some of those things. We looked shaky against Leicester, but we won and people got their hopes too high, like we turned the corner and left the bad behind. It's a bit of both, we improved some things, we still have work to do on others.
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7408 on: January 3, 2023, 12:24:04 am »
That's overreaction though, we've fixed some of those things. We looked shaky against Leicester, but we won and people got their hopes too high, like we turned the corner and left the bad behind. It's a bit of both, we improved some things, we still have work to do on others.
The first half against Leicester was one of the worst I have ever seen us play in and if it weren't for their gifts we would have went into the half at 1-0 down.

We looked better in the second half, but mainly because Leicester had to chase the game. Against Villa we were playing with fire too many times at 2-1 and a better striker would have pulled things level for them.
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Offline Johnny Aldridge

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7409 on: January 3, 2023, 12:25:33 am »
I’ve wondered on occasion if Klopp is too loyal in his ways. It’s admirable in life, but you gotta be cut throat in a sport situation. There’s a few players who look not tired, but complacent and not putting in the extra ounce. Brentford beat us today because of desire. They wanted it more. Instead of saying “we know what they do from corners” I would wonder, if you know stop it, and if you know do it also. Foul if you have to from a corner. Make it a wrestling match. Winning isn’t always pretty. Lijnders I think maybe needs to make the step into management himself, the coaching staff and assistant could do with fresh minds. It could be time to bench some guys, let there be competition for places. Carvalho deserves a start or two at this stage. TAS & VVD might need a game or two on the bench to smarten them up. It’s hard with the position we’re in to bench guys but this season I have no expectations of, if they got some stuff sorted within the team it would be better than a top 4 finish. Go at it proper next season.
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7410 on: January 3, 2023, 12:33:07 am »
So we should not question why we keep conceding the same kind of goals since August without any hint of it being fixed? We should not question why certain players keep getting picked in positions they are nowhere near good enough to play in? We should not question the decision not to sign a midfielder to fix the glaring hole we have in the middle of the park? We should not question why our best player is being asked to play in a system that basically nullifies his goal scoring exploits? We should not question why in the majority of games played since April we have conceded first?
Seems to me that someone has been too lazy/thick to read... ;)
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7411 on: January 3, 2023, 12:36:44 am »
Look we were crap tonight, but truth is I don't think we have the balance. We became more compact and tried 433 again and we looked way better than when we started pissing out with formations around October time which led to the Leeds and Forest horror shows.

One big difference over the last 2-3 seasons is teams are physically fitter, stronger and athletic so teams play with a strong press. This never used to be the case in the same way it is now and I do think this is a big oversight on our recruitment strategy in terms of age profile. We are obviosuly trying patterns to break down stern defence, but our press and counter press is just not there anymore. With the way we play we always have and always will concede big chances, but the frequency is far greater now.

Our midfield is a huge glaring weakness and there's a real naivety to our play too. I'm sure the latter is a tactic in terms of not letting the occassion/moment stop people from playing differently, but Elliott trying a step over today before their 2nd goal was just sheer madness. The whole team are guilty of it at times.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7412 on: January 3, 2023, 12:42:20 am »
Bed in where?

Neither will develop the pace needed to play wide in a Klopp system and neither will ever be strong, fast, or athletic enough to play in a Klopp midfield.

Minamino is a better version of Carvalho who scored 10 goals helping us win 2 cups, and he was sold because he isn't the profile of footballer we want.

Elliot is basically a worse, weaker version of Shaqiri who we're starting in midfield.

It's madness and if we want to get anywhere this season we need to completely abandon playing these tiny kids.
Carvalho has just turned 20 and Elliott is still 19. Is it not fair to say they're a way off reaching their physical peak and that, given they're the same size as Coutinho, Modric, Bernado and David Silva - none of whom are exactly known for their physical attributes - there's no reason they couldn't reach the top level? Paul Scholes hadn't even made his league debut when he was Elliott's age, David Silva was playing in the Spanish second division and Modric wasn't a regular in the Croatian league yet.

Because not everyone needs to have the size of Haaland or the speed of Bale to make it in this league, and there's no reason why the shape of a 'Klopp team' can't evolve. Before Salah joined everyone was convinced the shape of a Klopp team would always be a 4-2-3-1. And Elliott is a lot more like Coutinho than he is Shaqiri - Shaqiri at his peak never had the vision or passing range Elliott does now. They're both basically in their first proper season at this level, is it not a wee bit soon to be writing them off?

Offline WoodenHanger

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7413 on: January 3, 2023, 12:45:49 am »
Carvalho has just turned 20 and Elliott is still 19. Is it not fair to say they're a way off reaching their physical peak and that, given they're the same size as Coutinho, Modric, Bernado and David Silva - none of whom are exactly known for their physical attributes - there's no reason they couldn't reach the top level? Paul Scholes hadn't even made his league debut when he was Elliott's age, David Silva was playing in the Spanish second division and Modric wasn't a regular in the Croatian league yet.

Because not everyone needs to have the size of Haaland or the speed of Bale to make it in this league, and there's no reason why the shape of a 'Klopp team' can't evolve. Before Salah joined everyone was convinced the shape of a Klopp team would always be a 4-2-3-1. And Elliott is a lot more like Coutinho than he is Shaqiri - Shaqiri at his peak never had the vision or passing range Elliott does now. They're both basically in their first proper season at this level, is it not a wee bit soon to be writing them off?

Coutinho wouldn't work in a peak Klopp side. We sold him and got better.

Neither would David Silva or Bernardo Silva.

We have abandoned the thing that made us great which was being massively physically dominant.

Henderson, Fabinho and Gini would run the legs off people. Physically kill teams.

I don't care how much you think Elliot and Carvalho will develop as players they will NEVER be those kinds of players. Ever. No matter how good they become.

Offer me Prime Gini or Prime David Silva in a Klopp team I'm taking Gini.

Somewhere along the line the vision has been lost and my instincts are telling me this has Lijnders fingerprints on it.

Offline Samie

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7414 on: January 3, 2023, 12:51:01 am »
Pep has been the  assistant when we've won everything this past 5 years.  :D

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7415 on: January 3, 2023, 12:55:36 am »
Pep has been the  assistant when we've won everything this past 5 years.  :D
True but statements like these and then seeing him in the lineup in midfield doesn't help his case either

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Offline Johnny Aldridge

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7416 on: January 3, 2023, 12:56:29 am »
Coutinho wouldn't work in a peak Klopp side. We sold him and got better.

Neither would David Silva or Bernardo Silva.

We have abandoned the thing that made us great which was being massively physically dominant.

Henderson, Fabinho and Gini would run the legs off people. Physically kill teams.

I don't care how much you think Elliot and Carvalho will develop as players they will NEVER be those kinds of players. Ever. No matter how good they become.

Offer me Prime Gini or Prime David Silva in a Klopp team I'm taking Gini.

Somewhere along the line the vision has been lost and my instincts are telling me this has Lijnders fingerprints on it.

Yeah I’d agree with you. Gini was a player we couldn’t afford to lose and didn’t replace. Some of the steel left midfield when he went. I wouldn’t expect Elliot or Carvalho to be that kind of player. A Declan Rice and obviously a Bellingham would be more in that style Gini was.
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Offline Samie

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7417 on: January 3, 2023, 12:57:03 am »
So he said Player A reminds of him Player B, we all do that. That's not a reason to bash someone.  :D

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7418 on: January 3, 2023, 12:57:11 am »
Pep has been the  assistant when we've won everything this past 5 years.  :D

He was also the very vocal assistant coach who saw us fail to score in 3 cup finals last season.

Go read what Gini said about Lijnders and the Barcelona game. It's fucking damning of Lijnders.

A lot of people say Buvac left because of Lijnders.

He's a failed manager. 

We won 2 trophies on penalties which have fuck all to do with coaching, failed to score and lost the CL final and came 2nd in the league.

We've completely strayed away from what made us great and someone, somewhere is having an influence, taking us away from the style of football that won us everything. It's clear as day.

Offline Samie

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7419 on: January 3, 2023, 12:58:51 am »
He was also the very vocal assistant coach who saw us fail to score in 3 cup finals last season.

Go read what Gini said about Lijnders and the Barcelona game. It's fucking damning of Lijnders.

A lot of people say Buvac left because of Lijnders.

He's a failed manager. 

We won 2 trophies on penalties which have fuck all to do with coaching, failed to score and lost the CL final and came 2nd in the league.


We've completely strayed away from what made us great and someone, somewhere is having an influence, taking us away from the style of football that won us everything. It's clear as day.

Buvac left because he had a big falling out with Kloppo.

The rest of the things you've mentioned have zilch to do with blaming a fuckin' assistant on.  You seriously can;t blame him for us finishing second for fucks sakes.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7420 on: January 3, 2023, 01:00:58 am »
He was also the very vocal assistant coach who saw us fail to score in 3 cup finals last season.

Go read what Gini said about Lijnders and the Barcelona game. It's fucking damning of Lijnders.

A lot of people say Buvac left because of Lijnders.

He's a failed manager. 

We won 2 trophies on penalties which have fuck all to do with coaching, failed to score and lost the CL final and came 2nd in the league.

We've completely strayed away from what made us great and someone, somewhere is having an influence, taking us away from the style of football that won us everything. It's clear as day.
Also the whole inverted wingback with Trent and Mo being shafted out wide is just....questionable decisions.

Like I said, I want someone else as a second assistant who will bounce ideas, even sometimes challenge him and Klopp on some decisions. Everyone knows how to score against us, and not only do we not adjust, it is like we dare them to score by playing into their hand, and it happens far too often without any hint of the problems being fixed. We all know Lijnders is the one who sets the tactical sessions up, maybe he should move to management and let someone else take his role.
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7421 on: January 3, 2023, 01:01:46 am »
Buvac left because he had a big falling out with Kloppo.

The rest of the things you've mentioned have zilch to do with blaming a fuckin' assistant on.  You seriously can;t blame him for us finishing second for fucks sakes.

"However, the 57-year-old became increasingly unhappy with his role at the club, resentful that Lijnders - who was behind both himself and third assistant Peter Krawietz in the pecking order - was enjoying too much responsibility. In the updated version of Klopp's biography, author Raphael Honigstein explained (via the Express): ''The Liverpool (staff) had noticed that the notoriously taciturn Bosnian had switched from monosyllabic to zero-syllabic in the last few months.

''Buvac gave the impression that he wasn't happy with the increasing influence of the fourth assistant coach Pepijn Lijnders. The relaxed, bright Dutchman had been very popular with the players"


Offline Lone Star Red

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7422 on: January 3, 2023, 01:02:44 am »
He was also the very vocal assistant coach who saw us fail to score in 3 cup finals last season.

Go read what Gini said about Lijnders and the Barcelona game. It's fucking damning of Lijnders.

A lot of people say Buvac left because of Lijnders.

He's a failed manager. 

We won 2 trophies on penalties which have fuck all to do with coaching, failed to score and lost the CL final and came 2nd in the league.

We've completely strayed away from what made us great and someone, somewhere is having an influence, taking us away from the style of football that won us everything. It's clear as day.

It’s really not. It was a professional athlete doing professional athlete things in big, decisive moments. Happens way more than you think. 

Gini also admitted that he ignored Klopp’s instructions too, so…
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Offline Samie

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7423 on: January 3, 2023, 01:04:21 am »
"However, the 57-year-old became increasingly unhappy with his role at the club, resentful that Lijnders - who was behind both himself and third assistant Peter Krawietz in the pecking order - was enjoying too much responsibility. In the updated version of Klopp's biography, author Raphael Honigstein explained (via the Express): ''The Liverpool (staff) had noticed that the notoriously taciturn Bosnian had switched from monosyllabic to zero-syllabic in the last few months.

''Buvac gave the impression that he wasn't happy with the increasing influence of the fourth assistant coach Pepijn Lijnders. The relaxed, bright Dutchman had been very popular with the players"

He has a big falling out with Klopp that's why he left.

I don;t doubt things such as the above contributed to his decision to leave though.  :D

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7424 on: January 3, 2023, 01:06:28 am »
Pep Lijnders on Mo Salah - direct quote from his book "I wanted to see Mo to play wide on the touchline as it helps us stretch opposition defenses. We believe this new role will unlock Mo's play making and dribbling ability"

Remember last season when Mo went about 6 months without scoring. We had Trent basically playing up front with Elliot in some weird shit half space.

Well that's got Lijnders fingerprints all over it.

He needs putting back in his fucking box.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7425 on: January 3, 2023, 01:09:39 am »
So, am I to understand that Klopp has no clue about the game, Bouvac was the actual play architect, then he left because of Lijnders, who is the new play architect, and Klopp is just a man-manager and otherwise observer?
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7426 on: January 3, 2023, 01:11:44 am »
We had a six week layoff with most of the team being rested to fix things in, we look worse now than right before the World cup break.

Unsure and too early IMO to say we look worse, but we certainly aren’t any better and issues that were happening before the WC are (worryingly) very much still happening.

So if training isn’t fixing it, it points to bigger issues and/or issues that can only be fixed by the transfer market and diminishing the roles of some current players.
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"So don’t think about it – just play football.” - Jurgen Klopp

Offline WoodenHanger

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7427 on: January 3, 2023, 01:12:46 am »
So, am I to understand that Klopp has no clue about the game, Bouvac was the actual play architect, then he left because of Lijnders, who is the new play architect, and Klopp is just a man-manager and otherwise observer?

Absolutely no one said that.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7428 on: January 3, 2023, 01:15:43 am »
So, am I to understand that Klopp has no clue about the game, Bouvac was the actual play architect, then he left because of Lijnders, who is the new play architect, and Klopp is just a man-manager and otherwise observer?

:lmao

If you cant pin the blame on a player... pin it on a coach instead

Sublime willful ignorance of the fact we won it all with the ever so disruptive Pep in the very coaching set up he's apparently single handedly burning to the ground.

Dont forget penalties dont count... like those pesky pace goals

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7429 on: January 3, 2023, 01:15:56 am »
Absolutely no one said that.
I know, but with respect, your suggestions are a ridiculous. Klopp himself have said many times that he likes Pep's fresh ideas. Many of the game strategies may have come from Pep - Mo on the wing, Harvey being picked over others, etc., but they would not have been a part of the game plan if Klopp has not bought into them and fully agreed.
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7430 on: January 3, 2023, 01:16:35 am »
True but statements like these and then seeing him in the lineup in midfield doesn't help his case either



He’s not really like Iniesta  though cause Iniesta had good pace, which is why he could motor past defenders, Iniesta would work in a Klopp side, Pep loves the sound of his own voice sometimes but he is a talented coach regardless.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7431 on: January 3, 2023, 01:19:29 am »
I know, but with respect, your suggestions are a ridiculous. Klopp himself have said many times that he likes Pep's fresh ideas. Many of the game strategies may have come from Pep - Mo on the wing, Harvey being picked over others, etc., but they would not have been a part of the game plan if Klopp has not bought into them and fully agreed.

And how are we getting on with them?

I think Klopp has blindspots.

I think he has a massive blindspot with Henderson and Elliot and I think Pep's got far too much influence on how we're playing and setting up.

I get extremely bad vibes from him. Releasing that fucking book. Doing the masterclass thing. He's always on the touchline like he's the manager.

I feel like he thinks he'll be Jurgens successor.

I feel like he needs knocking down a peg.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7432 on: January 3, 2023, 01:19:36 am »
True but statements like these and then seeing him in the lineup in midfield doesn't help his case either



Dont stop there, tell the full story...

“There is no such thing as like for like in football, but Harvey Elliott has some of the ingredients of Andres Iniesta and thinks like a creative midfielder.”

And how are we getting on with them?

I think Klopp has blindspots.

I think he has a massive blindspot with Henderson and Elliot and I think Pep's got far too much influence on how we're playing and setting up.

I get extremely bad vibes from him. Releasing that fucking book. Doing the masterclass thing. He's always on the touchline like he's the manager.

I feel like he thinks he'll be Jurgens successor.

I feel like he needs knocking down a peg.

Generally though, these things require some actual evidence, as in some specific insight to suggested stuff being true or evidence that actual backs up claims they are true.

'I think' means fuck all when it comes to a discussion about our tactical set up and Ljinders direct influence, all just guesswork and quite amusing to suggest Klopp is feeble enough to allow someone to undermine him and overstep a line... does he seem the type? Fuck no
« Last Edit: January 3, 2023, 01:22:31 am by RyanBabel19 »

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7433 on: January 3, 2023, 01:20:37 am »
Dont stop there, tell the full story...

“There is no such thing as like for like in football, but Harvey Elliott has some of the ingredients of Andres Iniesta and thinks like a creative midfielder.”


Except Harvey is not a midfielder though.
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7434 on: January 3, 2023, 01:20:43 am »
He was also the very vocal assistant coach who saw us fail to score in 3 cup finals last season.

Go read what Gini said about Lijnders and the Barcelona game. It's fucking damning of Lijnders.

A lot of people say Buvac left because of Lijnders.

He's a failed manager. 

We won 2 trophies on penalties which have fuck all to do with coaching, failed to score and lost the CL final and came 2nd in the league.

We've completely strayed away from what made us great and someone, somewhere is having an influence, taking us away from the style of football that won us everything. It's clear as day.
 
I just looked and wow it’s first time I heard of this.


https://www.empireofthekop.com/2021/07/25/wijnaldum-admits-he-ignored-both-klopp-and-lijnders-instructions-in-historic-barcelona-ucl-victory/

When I did come on, Pep Lijnders [the assistant manager] told me that when we built up I had to come into a back three to get the ball with the wing-backs higher.

In my head, I was like: ‘No, no, no. I’m not going to do that. I just try to play up front, try to score goals.’ I was so angry that I wanted to do my own thing and, in the end, it helped.”


Pep the other Pep would have brought him off for that, probably why he hasn’t won a CL when he didn’t have the greatest player of all time  ;D


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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7435 on: January 3, 2023, 01:23:32 am »
Coutinho wouldn't work in a peak Klopp side. We sold him and got better.

Neither would David Silva or Bernardo Silva.

We have abandoned the thing that made us great which was being massively physically dominant.

Henderson, Fabinho and Gini would run the legs off people. Physically kill teams.

I don't care how much you think Elliot and Carvalho will develop as players they will NEVER be those kinds of players. Ever. No matter how good they become.

Offer me Prime Gini or Prime David Silva in a Klopp team I'm taking Gini.

Somewhere along the line the vision has been lost and my instincts are telling me this has Lijnders fingerprints on it.
The game doesn't stand still. My guess is Klopp wanted to evolve into a style that meant we could control games more with less running so the team wouldn't tire itself out over the course of the season with the increased schedules. Signing Thiago was the first step towards that, and if you think Klopp wouldn't have wanted prime Silva I wonder if you saw much of Sahin or Kagawa at Dortmund. Neither were exactly blessed with pace but they made up for it with speed of thought and a great first touch.

The fact it hasn't worked out the way it was meant to in the long term doesn't mean it wasn't the right decision: no top team in Europe today presses at the speed the early Klopp teams did. Everyone retains possession to retain energy, you just have to be able to have that cutting edge at the front and make sure you don't get dispossessed. And Elliott doesn't actually get dispossessed very often, if he loses the ball it's usually because he's trying to create something with it. Carvalho does but again, he's 20 and it's his first season in the top division. It's what we expected when we signed him, and I don't think we expected either to be able to jump right in and immediately grasp the Klopp pressing system, because no one does.

Coutinho, by the way, was the best player in the league before he left. We improved because we used the money to buy Van Dijk, which greatly improved our defence, so that while our goals per game dropped off a little in the second half of that season, our defence was better. Then we bought Alisson and Fabinho the following summer and made that great leap forward.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7436 on: January 3, 2023, 01:27:07 am »
Except Harvey is not a midfielder though.

Seems to be playing there! How it became some form of common knowledge Pep introduced this and forced everyone to accept it is beyond me

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7437 on: January 3, 2023, 01:29:26 am »
And how are we getting on with them?

I think Klopp has blindspots.

I think he has a massive blindspot with Henderson and Elliot and I think Pep's got far too much influence on how we're playing and setting up.

I get extremely bad vibes from him. Releasing that fucking book. Doing the masterclass thing. He's always on the touchline like he's the manager.

I feel like he thinks he'll be Jurgens successor.

I feel like he needs knocking down a peg.
Everyone has blindspots, but I think in this case the fans have the lions share.

remember what Bellingham said about Hendo, how he affects the game? Remember the few analyses on why Keane missed the 2nd penalty at the WC with Hendo off? And how well did we do without Hendo today?

I don't know about Elliott, because he doesn't seem to fill the role, but perhaps when you put the jigsaw puzzle together, a piece is missing. You find pieces from another puzzle, but they don't quite fit and still leaves the picture incomplete, leaves a hole. I would have preferred Keita to start, but perhaps he wasn't ready. I don't know, and no one outside the club does.

Every decision has a reasoning behind. We don't have the information on the player that the club has, we look at the tip of the iceberg and judge the shape of the whole thing. It's OK to have opinions, but to portray them as a fact is just wrong.

And Pep might be Jurgen's successor, might not. Stevie thinks he might be one too. Who knows. But to try and knock him down for that is really dumb (nothing personal). I'd rather he learned from his mistakes, if they were his indeed, and not repeat them in the future.

Oh, and we are the dumbest club to listen to Pep and sign that Cody Fucking Gakpo, who he labelled the missing link. The club is already in Pep's hands, we should be afraid, very afraid!...
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7438 on: January 3, 2023, 01:41:47 am »
He’s not really like Iniesta  though cause Iniesta had good pace, which is why he could motor past defenders, Iniesta would work in a Klopp side, Pep loves the sound of his own voice sometimes but he is a talented coach regardless.
Iniesta didn't really have pace though, if you stuck him in a 50m race with every midfielder in this league he'd be somewhere near the back. What he did have was very quick feet and great speed of thought, which is why his first touch usually gave him the space to dribble past defenders.

Look at this compilation. How often does he use raw pace to go past a player as opposed to quick movement? Hardly ever:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/RIbmWdYEV18" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/RIbmWdYEV18</a>


Now here's a similar video for some of Elliott's games at the start of this season. Obviously, he isn't on the same level as Iniesta but he also has that ability to create space for himself with his first touch and again through feints and quick close control. Again, this is a teenager. He has a lot to learn in terms of tactical awareness and work off the ball but the ability is definitely there and he doesn't need to be an elite level athlete to use it. People writing him off are insane:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/oGTjljK0Iew" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/oGTjljK0Iew</a>

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #7439 on: January 3, 2023, 01:46:24 am »
The thing with Harvey is that he doesn't fit in the current setup. I can understand if he is molded into the Thiago role, but not both on the pitch at the same time. Similarly, Carvalho can become the new Bobby in time, but both will take time. Or it may never happen, who knows...
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