Topic: The Klopp Template

[royhendo]

Virgil post match underlining the manifesto for the season.

1. Focus on the next/current game.
2. Enjoy it.
3. Let other sides worry about themselves.

It’s gonna be a good season this.

[Dave McCoy]

Forgot to post this yesterday

[Peabee]

Virgil post match underlining the manifesto for the season.

1. Focus on the next/current game.
2. Enjoy it.
3. Let other sides worry about themselves.

It’s gonna be a good season this.

The attention to detail is on another level again. The club has neuroscientists working with the squad using state-of-the-art methods to provide mental strength training. Klopp et al clearly want to ensure that deterioration of form in January doesn’t happen again.

[ScouserAtHeart]

https://theathletic.com/2767223/2021/08/15/how-psgs-squad-compares-to-europes-elite-and-how-they-added-10-champions-league-titles-this-summer/

[thaddeus]

https://theathletic.com/2767223/2021/08/15/how-psgs-squad-compares-to-europes-elite-and-how-they-added-10-champions-league-titles-this-summer/

Other than the well documented fact our first choice front three are all the same age that's a pretty balanced squad.  We don't get enough out of some of those in that 24 to 29 banding though (Ox, Keita, Minamino and Origi) so we instead remain more dependent on some of the older players.  It would be great if a couple of those could step up this season.

Nine of our eleven record signings are at the club right now - Benteke and Carroll being the others - and all except Firmino of that nine were signed by Klopp.  That partly reflects the market inflation but still shows that Klopp has been backed to make expensive signings (usual caveats of net spend etc.).  I'm sure it's not Klopp's money-is-no-objective dream team but some pretty nice pieces to fit into his template!

[PaulF]

I know Milner is a freak outlier, but he's six years older than the front 3.  Injuries aside, they should still be top class for another couple of years. As long as we slowly start replacing them, then all's good.

I suppose the bigger problem when planning that far out, is we don't know how the manager will be or what profile of player he will want.

[phil236849]

We are used to seeing teamwork between three on each flank but today hendo got up to support Harvey, Trent and Mo to make it 4, wonder if this is a new thing or was it a one-off v Burnley?

[RedG13]

Looking back at the start of the thread and seeing on the roles work for each player. It still mostly role wise the lopsided 4231 with Salah as the Striker from the right inside channel. Traditionally the 7 the attacking winger on the right side however when I'm listing the roles Mane fills that role more but does it from the left side to balance it out and the 11 is more on the right side. Also the 11 role has a mix of the 433 10 Mf role from a deeper inside right spot
Will just list what looks like the roles are
On the roles from the start
1/GK-Alisson with Adrian and Kelleher
2/RB(Attacking Fullback)- Trent with Neco, Milner and likely Gomez as backups
3/LB(Defensive Fullback)- Robertson with Tsimikas, Milner as backups
4/CB(Covering Defender)- Matip is the starter right now, Gomez and Konate also would rotate in here would expect all 3 to be able to play super well
5/CB(Libero)- Virgil, guessing Konate would be the first preference to cover him but Matip and Gomez also player on the left side
6(Midfield Sweeper) - Fabinho the starter here, Henderson first backup mostly as Klopp prefers the Height, Thaigo can also cover here, Milner did for a game but that seems unideal
7(Attacking Winger)- Mane does this from the left side to balance out. Would think Jota is first choice backup here, Elliot and Shaqiri can do this from the right side, Minamino, Ox Jones and Keita from the left
8(Midfield Runner)-Keita probably the best fit for the role on the team, Him and Thaigo likely the first choice here. Henderson can fill this role also, Jones and Milner also
9(Striker)- Salah is the striker he plays it  from a non central role, Jota probably first choice backup here also, Mane can cover here. Origi in the mix here unless he moves before the window closes. Mane and Jota have done it from non central roles before, Origi would be doing it centrally.
10(Second Striker/Playmaker) - Firmino is the 10, Jota looks to be first backup here. Also probably best Role for Minamino, Jones/OX/Keita/Shaqiri/Elliot/Thaigo could fill this role could be more deeper as playmaker for some on that list more then 9.5 just depends on the gameplan if they are in that role with a possible more central striker also.
11(Defensive Winger) - This is probably the spot for the starting 11 that probably get a role matchup for the most. Thinking it would be hard to keep Henderson out of the starting 11 this is mostly likely starting spot for him, Keita moved to this spot during the Norwich when Thaigo came in and OX and Elliot have also started here. Shaqiri can play here along with Jones, Minamino and Milner also too. It very possible Thaigo plays here also with Keita deeper too, dont see Thaigo here with Henderson deeper though. Thiago could do this role possibly with Jones deeper also but guessing would it would Jones here and Thaigo deeper.

Overall lots of talented players for the 11/8 roles who look to be able to cover multiple roles for the club. There a Clear backup to the top 3 forward roles with other players with the ability to cover it too multiple positions

Not sure Liverpool or Klopp would be looking to add more players unless Shaqiri and Origi are sold and would probably be a young player in a forward spot however with that spot being easy to come in and produce faster then MF would seem unlikely.

Only time Liverpool looks to be short would be a huge injury problem and for a couple games during the AFCON, possible issues after international Friendly hopefully FIFA or UK will change it guidelines on it

With losing Mane,Salah and Keita for AFCON(unless this gets PPD for covid) that would be 3 starters gone however would still be able to potential lineup of something like
Alisson
Trent-Matip-Virgil-Robertson
Fabinho-Thaigo
Henderson/OX/Elliot-Firmino-Jones/Ox/Mimamino
Jota
Which would see be a pretty strong team.

Big Games in League/CL after all the players get back up fitness will be interesting to see who the choice is for the role next to Fabinho and Thaigo, It could be Henderson as he captain and played a ton of big games. Keita  offers a little more creatively with his dribbling, amazing pressing. Does Ox show enough to get back into it, fully heathy roster is Jones ready enough for it? I expect all of them to get games be used depending on what the coaching staff is looking for in match along with keeping everybody healthy.

Even with having Won the league, Champions League along another season over 90 points; this feels like Klopp's deepest team with way more options in the MF to provide depth and creativity, a very good player to cover all the forwards. The recruiting team, and coaching staff have job a great job building the team up to this point.

[royhendo]

Tomkins has a very good free article on his site today: https://tomkinstimes.com/2021/09/liverpools-successful-summer-squad-harmony-and-a-more-important-type-of-signing/

(Do struggle with the section on Sancho v Elliot, but overall some very good actual analysis, particularly the depiction of the contract situation.)

[RedG13]

Tomkins has a very good free article on his site today: https://tomkinstimes.com/2021/09/liverpools-successful-summer-squad-harmony-and-a-more-important-type-of-signing/

Great read thanks posting Roy

[El Lobo]

Thanks for that Roy

I can see why you didnt post it in the transfer thread though

The first few paragraphs alone would be tremendously triggering

As I’ve been saying all summer, vital players – often leaders, not just regular footballers – valued at hundreds of millions of pounds have returned from injuries, and the new and often improved contracts to the key personnel was more vital than adding shiny new signings.

Jürgen Klopp has made it clear that he wants unity, stability, and to work with the squad he has assembled. Does he want to waste time having to train new players to do all the things the existing players took years to learn, and from which they will continue to improve and benefit?

Add the one new big buy, Ibrahima Konaté, and the Reds have now tied a staggering 12 first-team squad players down to long-term new deals, and of course, the negotiations don’t have to end with the transfer window; new deals for the Terrific Trident will be negotiated. As it stands, no fewer than 14 of the Reds’ first-team squad are contracted until 2025, and six to 2026 and beyond.

[royhendo]

It'd get lost - like dropping your engagement ring into the Amazon.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Tomkins has a very good free article on his site today: https://tomkinstimes.com/2021/09/liverpools-successful-summer-squad-harmony-and-a-more-important-type-of-signing/

(Do struggle with the section on Sancho v Elliot, but overall some very good actual analysis, particularly the depiction of the contract situation.)

Far too sensible Roy 

It's a good overall summary albeit with a little bit of excessive optimism thrown in on occasions such as above.

If we don't get freakish injuries this year, I do expect some kind of stability dividend where we gain some outperformance because of how settled the squad is.

[Bob Sacamano]

Thanks for that Roy

I can see why you didnt post it in the transfer thread though

The first few paragraphs alone would be tremendously triggering

Well, I'll admit to being triggered because it's a bogus paragraph.

Getting our top players back from injury and shoring up the contract situation was indeed vital and more important than getting "shiny toys" but framing it as an either/or proposition is nonsensical. 

But even more ridiculous is the idea it took our players "years" to learn the system or how we play/train or what have you. Mane, Salah, Van Dijk, Jota required no time at all. Robertson, Thiago, and Fabinho were up to speed in a matter of months. This idea that we have a super complicated system that only a handful of players are capable of mastering and only after a very long time is clearly false, and if it *were* true it would be quite an indictment of Klopp because it would make him a terrible coach. (There is also the confounding case of Origi, who has been here for Klopp's entire tenure and might be the least trusted senior player in the squad. So what good does that sort of "continuity" serve?)

Yes, all things equal continuity is great. But the season is a slog. There will be suspensions, injuries, fatigue etc and that alone will disrupt continuity. The best way to cope with that is having a deep squad.

[mercurial]

We have a deep squad. The first 19 players are as good as any in the world. Beyond that it’s always a bit of luck. Can that squad be improved? Yes it can be. Was it realistically possible to do so in the last window  ? Doubtful. Transfers for exactly the player we want are difficult. I have been always saying that this year we have a stronger squad than in the last 2 years. Except for a 3 month anomaly of weird injuries our form has been of league champions for years now. We should have won in 2018 if not for city playing a blinder. That’s consistency. That’s what wins titles. If we don’t have a string of injuries we are good. If we have such a coincidence of injuries for 2nd year in a row, I would be very surprised and hold my hands up as being wrong. We will challenge for the title. This will possibly be the toughest title to win in many years but it will be a spectacle to watch. Enjoy the ride.

[RedG13]

Well, I'll admit to being triggered because it's a bogus paragraph.

Getting our top players back from injury and shoring up the contract situation was indeed vital and more important than getting "shiny toys" but framing it as an either/or proposition is nonsensical. 

But even more ridiculous is the idea it took our players "years" to learn the system or how we play/train or what have you. Mane, Salah, Van Dijk, Jota required no time at all. Robertson, Thiago, and Fabinho were up to speed in a matter of months. This idea that we have a super complicated system that only a handful of players are capable of mastering and only after a very long time is clearly false, and if it *were* true it would be quite an indictment of Klopp because it would make him a terrible coach. (There is also the confounding case of Origi, who has been here for Klopp's entire tenure and might be the least trusted senior player in the squad. So what good does that sort of "continuity" serve?)

Yes, all things equal continuity is great. But the season is a slog. There will be suspensions, injuries, fatigue etc and that alone will disrupt continuity. The best way to cope with that is having a deep squad.

Mane, Salah all didnt start performing best untill like in October or Nov irc, there scoring and over player just got better. Virgil is a cb who doesnt have to be as involved in the press and cues as much, he basically been trained in the Dutch style of football since he was youth player moving a high line team it was very logical it was not going to take a lot of time to get up speed. the Forwards still take a little time but MFs coming unless from a very similar type of style that they where trained as(Thaigo(Barca system), Gini(Dutch academcy) it going take at least a half of a season.
Jota didn't start his first Liverpool game in the PL or CL till October and that was a result of Mane out with Covid. Jota first start with Firmino, Mane and Salah all healthy was late October and he played with both of them. Atalanta game was the first game in November where Jota started over Firmino. He a goal scorer he made an impact more of a reverse first before earning a spot in the first 11.
Fabinho and Robertson both where not full up to speed till around after the Nov International Break. Thaigo was faster because he played at Barca and Bayern under Pep. Klopp system is different but they both still run pressing styles that look to dominate the ball.

[royhendo]

framing it as an either/or proposition

That's Paul's thing though really, isn't it?

[him_15]

Just imagine if Klopp has the spending power as the big boy team...

[Triad]

What are peoples opinions with what we are trying to do with Salah.
Last season,I thought the Fab-Thiago midfield did not do much to help him as he was being forced to keep the width.Compared to playing with Hendo at the right who could relieve Salah of his defensive ability and at the same time, occupy the outlap allowing Mo to come inside in the box.

This season both Trent and Harvey are occupying the centre right space,making Mo go outside to maintain width.It does not really work as Mo's 1v1 ability has always been his weakest.

Wonder if Klopp will persist with this spacing or bring Hendo back to the right.

[ep1987]

What do people think about an unbalanced 4-4-2 with a LCM, DM, CM and RM? Robertson would provide the width on the left, TAA would continue in his flexible RWB position with the freedom to operate from RCM and we'd have split strikers rather than Mo being camped out wide.

LCM would be Keita/Jones
DM would be Fabinho/Henderson
CM would be Henderson/Thiago
RM would be Elliot/Ox/Henderson

Obviously Firmino would be heavily squeezed for playing time as Mo/Mane/Jota would be more suited to play as split strikers.

[Suareznumber7]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

[Knight]

What are peoples opinions with what we are trying to do with Salah.
Last season,I thought the Fab-Thiago midfield did not do much to help him as he was being forced to keep the width.Compared to playing with Hendo at the right who could relieve Salah of his defensive ability and at the same time, occupy the outlap allowing Mo to come inside in the box.

This season both Trent and Harvey are occupying the centre right space,making Mo go outside to maintain width.It does not really work as Mo's 1v1 ability has always been his weakest.

Wonder if Klopp will persist with this spacing or bring Hendo back to the right.

Benefit of hindsight I don't think Salah being stuck on the touchline against Chelsea was great. We need to find ways of getting him the ball inside the box, that's where he can be most dangerous. We did need someone to maintain the width to make the pitch as big as possible against Chelsea's 10, I just don't think it should have been Salah. That said, Jota barely touched it in the 2nd half so I'm not sure putting Salah in Jota's position was great. I may be off base about this but I think we'll inevitably struggle, on occasion, against teams playing a low block with no interest in progressing the ball along the floor because that style of play nullifies the counter press, and it's often said the counter press is Klopp's playmaker.

[RedG13]

Benefit of hindsight I don't think Salah being stuck on the touchline against Chelsea was great. We need to find ways of getting him the ball inside the box, that's where he can be most dangerous. We did need someone to maintain the width to make the pitch as big as possible against Chelsea's 10, I just don't think it should have been Salah. That said, Jota barely touched it in the 2nd half so I'm not sure putting Salah in Jota's position was great. I may be off base about this but I think we'll inevitably struggle, on occasion, against teams playing a low block with no interest in progressing the ball along the floor because that style of play nullifies the counter press, and it's often said the counter press is Klopp's playmaker.

Since Pep replaced Buvac as the #2 at Liverpool the Point totals have been 97 then 99 and last seasons 69. Was 75 the year before(getting Virgil in the Winter Window too) He basically helped take Liverpool from a high level 2 football team to a full on high Level 3 team. Some players adds helped too.
I think they will find a find a balance with Salah positioning but also Chelsea was good at making sure Liverpool was not able to go though the central area as much

[Suareznumber7]

Love how Klopp has been rotating the squad so far this year. Expect some more rotation on Tuesday which will  hopefully see Minamino and Ox getting a start, maybe Gomez to get another game with Konate again. Add in a few youngsters and it should be a fun game.

[farawayred]

Love how Klopp has been rotating the squad so far this year. Expect some more rotation on Tuesday which will  hopefully see Minamino and Ox getting a start, maybe Gomez to get another game with Konate again. Add in a few youngsters and it should be a fun game.

Perfect game for Curtis, Origi and Kelleher to start too, maybe Nat coming in at half time to give him games. And a cameo for Bobby if he's recovered enough.

[newterp]

Perfect game for Curtis, Origi and Kelleher to start too, maybe Nat coming in at half time to give him games. And a cameo for Bobby if he's recovered enough.

Minamino will get a start I think. Actually we should have a strong team.

Minamino-Origi-Ox
Jones-Keita-Gordon
Tsmikas-Konate-Phillips-Gomez

[RedForeverTT]

Minamino will get a start I think. Actually we should have a strong team.

Minamino-Origi-Ox
Jones-Keita-Gordon
Tsmikas-Konate-Phillips-Gomez

If he is to be shoehorned into Salah or Mane’s position when both players go to AFCON, he will have to start at some point pretty soon. I think that’s the reason we didn’t sell or let him leave on loan this season.

Ox couldn't play ahead of Jones at the moment so unless we have some major injuries, he can be discounted for the near future. Klopp would rather start Milner in midfield if we go down to bare bones.

[Suareznumber7]

It seems that we have changed something with regards to our attacking set plays this year which is paying big dividends early in the season.  The following below from Dan Kennett.  I don't remember how many goals we have scored directly from a corner this year but the three from the weekend came from the second phase of the corner.  This could be huge for us especially when we aren't at our attacking best.   

https://twitter.com/dankennett/status/1439258104865099776?s=21

51 (fifty one) shots from set plays in 6 matches this season for #lfc, 8.5 per match.
All 3 goals today.
The most by any PL team in a season is 180, 4.8 per match.
Surely it's got to come down at some point but there's no sign of it so far

Shots from set plays (EPL 21/22)
11 VVD
9 Salah
8 Matip, Mane
5 Fabinho
4 Jota
Leicester have 3 all season, Chelsea only 11

https://twitter.com/dankennett/status/1439339205696659462?s=21

#lfc Goal types this season
Open Play
Set Play - Corner
Open Play
Open Play
Open Play
Penalty
Open Play
Set play - Corner
Open Play
Own Goal
Open Play
Set play - Corner
Set play - Corner
Set play - Corner
Set play - Corner

[Dim Glas]

It seems that we have changed something with regards to our attacking set plays this year which is paying big dividends early in the season.  The following below from Dan Kennett.  I don't remember how many goals we have scored directly from a corner this year but the three from the weekend came from the second phase of the corner.  This could be huge for us especially when we aren't at our attacking best.   

https://twitter.com/dankennett/status/1439258104865099776?s=21

Kloppo was quick to give a mention and credit to Pete Krawietz and his team after Saturday’s game for their set piece  work.

Also Pep Lijnders’ said this during pre-season:

One of our ideas, for example, was to improve the delivery in our set-pieces. Direct free-kicks, wide free-kicks, penalties and corners. We met Niklas and Patrick from Neuro11 three years ago. We wanted to work together, everything was ready, but the pandemic made it impossible. Jürgen and I really believe in these two guys and their concept. We believe in the stimulus they give. Hopefully we can give consistency to this part. With the away goal rule cancelled there will be, for example, many more penalty shootouts. We saw in the Euros, and indeed in the history of tournaments, that set-pieces decide. It was always like this, and will always stay like this. With Patrick and Niklas, we give a completely new impulse to accuracy training. Will it pay off? I’m hopeful it will.

[Zeb]

I enjoy Pep's media stuff. He's very personable and has a way to him with it, insightful and accessible. Been fun seeing how some of what he was talking about in his blog pre-season seems to be playing out on the pitch. Tangential point is that we talk a lot about how systems are put in place for player recruitment, retention, and development but there's stuff there in the background beyond that too which hints at longer term planning than even a three to four year window.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

It seems that we have changed something with regards to our attacking set plays this year which is paying big dividends early in the season.  The following below from Dan Kennett.  I don't remember how many goals we have scored directly from a corner this year but the three from the weekend came from the second phase of the corner.  This could be huge for us especially when we aren't at our attacking best.   

https://twitter.com/dankennett/status/1439258104865099776?s=21

Well last year we were missing CB's which prevented us from being efficent as we had the two seasons prior. We've just continued to do what we have in the past

[xbugawugax]

were we this efficient during set plays a couple of years back though?

suspect that just a purple patch and we would be back to average once teams kind of work out our threat.

oh and look, goal scoring midfielders. Hendo, fab and keita have all been on the scoresheet. hopefully long may it continue and provide more offensive threat and headaches for the opposition.

[wige]

I enjoy Pep's media stuff. He's very personable and has a way to him with it, insightful and accessible. Been fun seeing how some of what he was talking about in his blog pre-season seems to be playing out on the pitch. Tangential point is that we talk a lot about how systems are put in place for player recruitment, retention, and development but there's stuff there in the background beyond that too which hints at longer term planning than even a three to four year window.

Same - he's endlessly optimistic/positive.

[El Lobo]

were we this efficient during set plays a couple of years back though?

suspect that just a purple patch and we would be back to average once teams kind of work out our threat.

oh and look, goal scoring midfielders. Hendo, fab and keita have all been on the scoresheet. hopefully long may it continue and provide more offensive threat and headaches for the opposition.

I'm not sure its as simple as 'working out our threat'

We've got very good set piece takers (TAA, Robbo and Kostas), very good headers of the ball who are also big lads (VVD, Matip, Konate, Fabinho) and then other smaller lads who are also good in the air and very smart with their movement (....the front four).

[PaulF]

were we this efficient during set plays a couple of years back though?

suspect that just a purple patch and we would be back to average once teams kind of work out our threat.

oh and look, goal scoring midfielders. Hendo, fab and keita have all been on the scoresheet. hopefully long may it continue and provide more offensive threat and headaches for the opposition.

Maybe I'm pointing out the obvious, but having VVD available for attacking set pieces makes quite a difference.
That and we can send Alisson up...

[afc tukrish]

Maybe I'm pointing out the obvious, but having VVD available for attacking set pieces makes quite a difference.
That and we can send Alisson up...

Dunno, Alisson's a pretty big dude, not certain I'd want to send him up...

[Suareznumber7]

Well last year we were missing CB's which prevented us from being efficent as we had the two seasons prior. We've just continued to do what we have in the past

I'm not sure that's the only reason why we are doing so well with set plays this year.  We are creating double the number of shots from set plays as the highest in the history of the Premier league.  That's not down to just VVD/Matip being back. 

[tubby]

I'm not sure that's the only reason why we are doing so well with set plays this year.  We are creating double the number of shots from set plays as the highest in the history of the Premier league.  That's not down to just VVD/Matip being back. 

We had a couple of chances on the weekend through Jota and Salah making runs towards the taker, might just be we've added a couple more routines to our set pieces.

[Suareznumber7]

I'm not sure its as simple as 'working out our threat'

We've got very good set piece takers (TAA, Robbo and Kostas), very good headers of the ball who are also big lads (VVD, Matip, Konate, Fabinho) and then other smaller lads who are also good in the air and very smart with their movement (....the front four).

We've scored 5 goals from corners this year.  None have been headed directly in. 

The 3 from the Palace game, Hendo in the Milan game, Fab against Leeds, and Salah against Norwich.  All of the goals came in the 2nd phase of the corner.  We've somehow worked out where players need to be to take advantage of the disorganization after the initial ball played in.  I'm guessing they've figured out, using data somehow, where the ball is likely to end up based on where the corner is hit.  Having players who are so good at hitting these corners is clearly a massive reason why we are able to do what we're doing. 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I'm not sure that's the only reason why we are doing so well with set plays this year.  We are creating double the number of shots from set plays as the highest in the history of the Premier league.  That's not down to just VVD/Matip being back.

But it's helping us more than not having them. they're a major threat, or at least a distraction to the opposition.

We've been able to do this in the past, scoring in the 2nd phase following set pieces in 18/19 and 19/20. I'm sure we've improved on it, but having them back has helped.