Topic: LFC Ticket Pricing Forum

[Graham Smith]

It means Graham is having another pop at FSG despite them asking for his opinion and help. In the same post he also said that only locals are normal supporters, and then used a sarcastic hashtag to have a pop in another post. Its why nothing will get done in the end, because it's a "us vs them" mentality.


Also, why don't they just hand out fancards for free, and if you want to sell to your mate, you ring them and say "hello I'm jake member 01283 I'm selling my ticket to steve number 29437 so he'll be in my seat" - jobs a fucking good one.

No apology from me about the ’local’ comment. Any tickets priced at premium levels will be way out of the reach of local supporters at the prices likely to be charged.

This is Kensington, Liverpool not Kensington, London.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

No apology from me about the ’local’ comment. Any tickets priced at premium levels will be way out of the reach of local supporters at the prices likely to be charged.

This is Kensington, Liverpool not Kensington, London.

you do know that a lot of people that grew up in and around the city don’t live there anymore, just because they don’t live locally doesn’t mean they’re the same as the tourists

[4pool]

Here is where the club said on average how the tickets are disbursed




Graham, how many tickets are estimated to be "touted" that the club wants to clamp down on?

Which category above ends up being touted the most? Season tickets? Members? or one of the others?

My math makes it 78.5% of the tickets are for ST, Members, and local/members/schools.

[thisyearisouryear]

No apology from me about the ’local’ comment. Any tickets priced at premium levels will be way out of the reach of local supporters at the prices likely to be charged.

This is Kensington, Liverpool not Kensington, London.

Did you really mean that only local supporters are 'normal' supporters? And before that, whatever the fuck does normal mean here?

[Groundskeeper Willie]

‘Fam’ is a shorthand for the risible LFC Family branding the Club use.

There is a huge market for the tourists that this branding represents and who the Club will target these tickets at if they can get them back from the touts.

Define "tourists" please. And also, are you saying that non local supporters aren't normal?

[Narwin Dunez]

I love Grahams logic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone lives in Liverpool their whole life, then moves away, they're less deserving than someone who moved to Liverpool last Tuesday?

[redgriffin73]

Also, why don't they just hand out fancards for free, and if you want to sell to your mate, you ring them and say "hello I'm jake member 01283 I'm selling my ticket to steve number 29437 so he'll be in my seat" - jobs a fucking good one.

Arsenal do this I think, certainly they can transfer matches between STs.

[Barrowred]

If the club is wanting to clamp down on touting (rightly so) and the person sat in the seat is the name on the card, then surely the only way is that you have to have ID on you?

I know most people carry ID in their wallets that would suffice but I would imagine that some don't also.

As someone has said in the thread, what if people can't make it at short notice so the card goes to someone who can. I know some people who just give the ticket away (usually to a kid) rather than the seat go empty. Under the proposal of friends and family the person doing this would have to get in touch with the club at very short notice(little or no chance from my experience) and register the other person in the seat he is giving away for free?? I can't imagine many would do that, I certainly wouldn't.

All of the proposals that Graham has communicated to us just sound like it is going to make it hard for people to pass on the odd spare they have, but if they don't follow the rules they stand a chance of losing their card. The people they should be targeting and I'm hoping they are, are the ones that are advertised on social media and in the pubs before kick off, as these are the easy targets.

[davidsteventon]

Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

We debated a while ago on here if anyone could define what 'touting' is. Nobody could agree. The club want the premium instead of person XYZ.

If they get the premium they'll look to knock a few quid off by sharing some out and offer us the equivalent of subsidised school meals.

Will this help to get more of the 'right type of people' into the ground? No. It will just knock a few quid off your existing Season Ticket price and the ground will have more of 'the fam' in and around who can afford these more expensive tickets.

Think more about where this leads, than thinking about a £10 reduction on a ticket today, because to me it leads to more tickets in the hands of the 1-3 game a season family day trips to AnfieldLand.

[SP]

If the club is wanting to clamp down on touting (rightly so) and the person sat in the seat is the name on the card, then surely the only way is that you have to have ID on you?

I know most people carry ID in their wallets that would suffice but I would imagine that some don't also.

As someone has said in the thread, what if people can't make it at short notice so the card goes to someone who can. I know some people who just give the ticket away (usually to a kid) rather than the seat go empty. Under the proposal of friends and family the person doing this would have to get in touch with the club at very short notice(little or no chance from my experience) and register the other person in the seat he is giving away for free?? I can't imagine many would do that, I certainly wouldn't.

All of the proposals that Graham has communicated to us just sound like it is going to make it hard for people to pass on the odd spare they have, but if they don't follow the rules they stand a chance of losing their card. The people they should be targeting and I'm hoping they are, are the ones that are advertised on social media and in the pubs before kick off, as these are the easy targets.

The only viable solution would be a web page where you can specify the fancard number of the transferee. That could be free, and practical on their existing architecture.

Photo ID fan cards / Season tickets are likely to be the way through the ID dilemma. I suspect it is a matter of when, not if.

[SP]

Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

We debated a while ago on here if anyone could define what 'touting' is. Nobody could agree. The club want the premium instead of person XYZ.

If they get the premium they'll look to knock a few quid off by sharing some out and offer us the equivalent of subsidised school meals.

Will this help to get more of the 'right type of people' into the ground? No. It will just knock a few quid off your existing Season Ticket price and the ground will have more of 'the fam' in and around who can afford these more expensive tickets.

Think more about where this leads, than thinking about a £10 reduction on a ticket today, because to me it leads to more tickets in the hands of the 1-3 game a season family day trips to AnfieldLand.

The 1 to 3 ticket brigade are already there, they are the prime target for touts. The measures are unlikely to have much effect on who attends, just where they get their tickets from.

[the 92A]

It means Graham is having another pop at FSG despite them asking for his opinion and help. In the same post he also said that only locals are normal supporters, and then used a sarcastic hashtag to have a pop in another post. Its why nothing will get done in the end, because it's a "us vs them" mentality.


Also, why don't they just hand out fancards for free, and if you want to sell to your mate, you ring them and say "hello I'm jake member 01283 I'm selling my ticket to steve number 29437 so he'll be in my seat" - jobs a fucking good one.

This isn't helpful Jake. We are trying to have a discussion over ticket pricing and this is a diversion from a sensible conversation. Graham's a big boy and doesn't need me to defend him but at no point does Graham say that only locals are normal supporters. I've re-read what he says and he clearly uses 'normal' as a qualifier on local supporters. ' a normal local supporter' as opposed to say a millionaire local supporter who would have no problem paying a premium.

If the problem was just an us vs them mentality, it would be easily solved, as the problem would have no roots in reality but the problem is real one not one artificially created by any side. While there is over demand for tickets the problem will exist and there will be a tension  because our owners would like to use the 'market' and price stratification to solve the problem, which may work for them on a revenue maximisation or business level but that would increasingly price out our already struggling traditional working class support. Without the walkout, we reckoned we had only one or two seasons left before our tickets were unaffordable so what chance would a young kid from Norris Green or Anfield have of getting in the ground, practically zero.

If you believe football clubs are just business's fine. You'd probably have sympathy for the owners being held back by a load of backward looking idiots, but many of us believe that football clubs are also linked intrinsically to the communities they come from and want a say in the way they are being run and don't except that the market is the only way of solving the shortage of tickets because when the area is as generally poor as Liverpool, it disenfranchises the people who followed and built the football club. I'm made up we have a diverse support and I'm proud of that but it is important that we don't price out the kids who live around the ground.

[Narwin Dunez]

This isn't helpful Jake. We are trying to have a discussion over ticket pricing and this is a diversion from a sensible conversation. Graham's a big boy and doesn't need me to defend him but at no point does Graham say that only locals are normal supporters. I've re-read what he says and he clearly uses 'normal' as a qualifier on local supporters. ' a normal local supporter' as opposed to say a millionaire local supporter who would have no problem paying a premium.

I can see it being read both ways but sorry if it detracted. My point should have been that some would construe graham's attitude as divisive which can only hinder discourse between the parties? But I know we're all working towards getting proper fans in the ground and reasonable rates.

[the 92A]

I can see it being read both ways but sorry if it detracted. My point should have been that some would construe graham's attitude as divisive which can only hinder discourse between the parties? But I know we're all working towards getting proper fans in the ground and reasonable rates.

Don't want this to be about personalities just trying to keep discussion productive, no problem with disagreements but we'll get no where on the substance if we start from everything that divides us. The club's position raises a number of questions and problems that require decent discussion here and elsewhere

[RedBootsTommySmith]

OK, I live in the States, but born, raised and lived most of my life in Liverpool. I have a lot of family & friends, so when I go home I can usually find a ticket which I cover at face value. Will my family members now be accused of being ‘touts’ and risk losing their ST privileges?

[Graham Smith]

OK, I live in the States, but born, raised and lived most of my life in Liverpool. I have a lot of family & friends, so when I go home I can usually find a ticket which I cover at face value. Will my family members now be accused of being ‘touts’ and risk losing their ST privileges?

It is quite possible that if you aren't part of their 'friends and family' scheme (if this is what comes in) you will risk them losing the ST - not a touting issue really.

[Barrowred]

It is quite possible that if you aren't part of their 'friends and family' scheme (if this is what comes in) you will risk them losing the ST - not a touting issue really.

Graham, do you know what will happen to the credit for the fixture if you do pass on to friends and family?

[Graham Smith]

Graham, do you know what will happen to the credit for the fixture if you do pass on to friends and family?

There's no detail being discussed as of yet - but I would suspect the best thing to do, bearing in mind it is a friends and family scheme with preordained people being nominated each season, would be the credit would remain with the ticket a such - i.e. the owner(s).

Would welcome views to take into the room if this gets discussed in any detail.

[Barrowred]

I think the sensible approach would be to keep the credit with the card. If you lost it some people would take the hit on some games and just leave the seat empty if they thought it would affect their chances of getting first dibs on the bigger games the following season.

Would the proposed friends and family have to be members?

It gets complicated when you start thinking of all the potential issues their could be

[Graham Smith]

I think the sensible approach would be to keep the credit with the card. If you lost it some people would take the hit on some games and just leave the seat empty if they thought it would affect their chances of getting first dibs on the bigger games the following season.

Would the proposed friends and family have to be members?

It gets complicated when you start thinking of all the potential issues their could be

I would be very firmly of the view that a membership would not be required.

[Narwin Dunez]

I'd say "paid" membership, no (but I think that's a fucking rip off full stop - paying for the privilege to buy something is scandalous) but fancards that you register properly for (like when you send a pic of your ID to a betting website or something) is a must. The club do need to know who is in which seat, that I completely agree with (although in fantasy land it would be amazing if the KOP was all tickets on the door and you filed in with your mates front to back)

[Suareznumber7]

The club do need to know who is in which seat, that I completely agree with

Can someone explain why the club would need to know who is in which seat? 

[Always_A_Red]

I would be very firmly of the view that a membership would not be required.

That's for all your info on this Graham and its a topic that I've been watching closely.

I agree with your thinking here. If a 'friend or family' member doesn't need to be a member though, what process will you need to go through to register that person as the person that's taking the seat?

The reason I say this is that a month or so ago, as a member, I was unable to go to a game because I was sick, so my cousin (who doesn't usually go the game and I wouldn't think to have him as a 'registered' person) went instead.

Would I be able to do this in the future or would it likely only be people on the registered 'friends and family' list that could go in this scenario? The question then is that if this is the case and none of them could go due to other commitments or them already going the game, I end up £45-55 down and a seat goes empty.

It's rarely happened for me, but I assume that spread over 130,000 members and people having work, kids, illnesses etc I'm sure there'll be many situations where people are unable to attend last minute.

[anfieldpurch]

That's for all your info on this Graham and its a topic that I've been watching closely.

I agree with your thinking here. If a 'friend or family' member doesn't need to be a member though, what process will you need to go through to register that person as the person that's taking the seat?

The reason I say this is that a month or so ago, as a member, I was unable to go to a game because I was sick, so my cousin (who doesn't usually go the game and I wouldn't think to have him as a 'registered' person) went instead.

Would I be able to do this in the future or would it likely only be people on the registered 'friends and family' list that could go in this scenario? The question then is that if this is the case and none of them could go due to other commitments or them already going the game, I end up £45-55 down and a seat goes empty.

It's rarely happened for me, but I assume that spread over 130,000 members and people having work, kids, illnesses etc I'm sure there'll be many situations where people are unable to attend last minute.

They can register on the ticketing site without buying a membership and get a "customer" number so then be added to your friends and family so i assume that would continue

[Always_A_Red]

They can register on the ticketing site without buying a membership and get a "customer" number so then be added to your friends and family so i assume that would continue

Ok that makes sense, but how far in advance would they have to register?

I my scenario where my cousin went because I was ill, he doesn't usually go to the game and was his first game in 6 years so he wouldn't have registered. I suppose that if you allow that scenario and allow him to register that short notice, then you wouldn't stop touts doing the same when they sold the ticket on? But if you don't then i'm stuck with a £50 ticket and a seat goes empty.

It's a really tough topic and so hard to police.

[John C]

I my scenario where my cousin went because I was ill, he doesn't usually go to the game and was his first game in 6 years so he wouldn't have registered.

It will be an anomaly within the parameters of an existing and future imperfect system. There's always 'an empty seat', unfortunately.

[Always_A_Red]

It will be an anomaly within the parameters of an existing and future imperfect system. There's always 'an empty seat', unfortunately.

In these situations though, you're 'generally' able to get someone in your place to go and therefore 'an empty seat' doesn't happen. I'd imagine that with the club selling tickets so far in advance, there'll be many who are unable to attend when the TV fixtures are announced and dates are changed. I wouldn't like to speculate, but when you look at UTD, there was a study on the amount of tickets sold and the actual attendance and there was a huge disparity. You hardly notice it because of the size of the stadium but I cant help think that with Anfield, if you sell tickets so far in advance and then stop genuine supporters the opportunity to pass to their mates if they cant go for whatever reason then you'll end up with a lot of 'noticeable' empty seats on TV.

You have to think too that by wanting more local people in the stadium, who are from a 'working class' background, they may work in a job that has shift work and be subject to change from time to time.

I think that whatever happens, there's going to be a huge amount of genuine supporters who these changes are going to hit hard, whether it be season ticket holders who share their cards between mates throughout a season or members who go to a half a dozen games who are at the mercy of the TV companies on when the game is going to be played and a club who want as much money in their bank as early as possible that make it impossible for the 'normal' fan to plan a thing.
 

[John C]

You have to think too that by wanting more local people in the stadium, who are from a 'working class' background, they may work in a job that has shift work and be subject to change from time to time.

We could go round in circles with the 'what if' scenario mate. If the parameter for card registration is 4, people will say' what if' ... same for 6 or 10. I'm not saying any number is correct and I'm seeming to be argumentative, but you put a 'what if' scenario up and like any situation it may not be resolvable

[Always_A_Red]

We could go round in circles with the 'what if' scenario mate. If the parameter for card registration is 4, people will say' what if' ... same for 6 or 10. I'm not saying any number is correct and I'm seeming to be argumentative, but you put a 'what if' scenario up and like any situation it may not be resolvable

Fair enough. Unfortunately though I'd imagine that every one of the 50000 people in Anfield has had a number of those 'what if' moments in their time going to the game and if it means that they will lose £50 through no fault of their own each time it happens, then I think a pretty shitty position for the club to put them in. Just a thought mate.   

[RedBootsTommySmith]

I’d never want to risk a ST holder losing privileges for loaning It to me for one game. This is bad news for me.

When are they going to expand the Anny Road end, to reduce the impact at least a little? Any plans ro expand the Kop, e.g., rerouting Walton Breck?

I know we all want to strengthen the team, but stadium expansion would be a good investment especially in these days of crazy transfer fees.

[davidsteventon]

They’ve talked about it for at least two years.

There are many legitimate multiple season tickets in the name of one person as in the 1980s and 1990s the Club allowed them to be sold in this way.

An amnesty and tidy up is long overdue.

Regarding tickets in general (rather than specifically home/away/Europe) and not necessarily PRH would you or the club like to comment about the 'legacy deals' some people potentially have?

[Graham Smith]

Regarding tickets in general (rather than specifically home/away/Europe) and not necessarily PRH would you or the club like to comment about the 'legacy deals' some people potentially have?

What ‘legacy’ deals? The ex-shareholders?

[Pistolero]

season ticket prices to be frozen again for 2018/19 season.....

[Harinder]

Bit late to some of the comments in here so here goes

1 - I don't always agree with Graham. You'd only need to look at our interaction on here to know this over the years BUT I will say this, I sat next to him in the meeting and he only has the welfare of all fans at heart. Local as well as others. Take it or leave it but that's how it is for real. Quit the pot shots at him and debate the topic.

2 - SP on right tracks re how they could handle a legitimate exchange but then that's not to say a pdf ticket can't be touted. Happens a lot for hospitality tickets sadly where such an exchange exists

3 - Prices are frozen for 18/19. It's nice but always the desire will be for prices to go down because they are high and they are painful and even more so when a fixture changes dates and the train fare you have boxed off has gone up too. It gets on my billy goats gruff when a price rise is on the cards for any football fixture because it's not as if monetary increases for desired revenue don't come in other shapes and sizes is it (think TV deals etc)?

[sminp]

season ticket prices to be frozen again for 2018/19 season.....

Not just season tickets, all tickets will be frozen.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/286253-liverpool-fc-to-freeze-ticket-prices-for-2018-19

Good work FSG although it won’t get recognised by many of the idiots who have been kicking off in this thread before any prices were announced, they’ll just find something else to whinge about instead.

[Alf]

Considering how far apart the club and the other members of the forum were when they met last month this seems a sensible idea to freeze ticket prices.

[the 92A]

Not just season tickets, all tickets will be frozen.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/286253-liverpool-fc-to-freeze-ticket-prices-for-2018-19

Good work FSG although it won’t get recognised by many of the idiots who have been kicking off in this thread before any prices were announced, they’ll just find something else to whinge about instead.

Discussing ticket prices, a system for buying tickets that has evolved and is clearly not working for fans or club, discussing how to overcome the disenfranchisement of sections of our support, discussing the real problem of touting certainly isn't whinging or kicking off.

As for idiots, I'd reserve that for people who jump into threads they haven't read and unthinkingly shit on the table.

[the 92A]

Probably all seen it and many have made similar arguments for a longtime but Vincent Company makes sense and reinforces the point that even from a business point of view, with seat revenue becoming less of factor in overall revenue, if you see things purely from an increasing income point of view you are missing a trick.

Liverpool would gain tremendous kudos leading such an approach, and what's the business BS, increase 'buy in' from their support home and abroad and increase their 'customer base', with Klopps football and tapping properly into our product market especially abroad massive opportunities if you take the chance.  Most fans buy into a club for life and one of the reasons so many are attracted to our club, that's won little recently is the sense of us being a bit different, fighting with our backs against the wall and that came from the support, the Kop, European nights. We all know that that's seriously on the wain to the point of embarrassment at times. I doubt we get to Istanbul without that wall of noise in the semi vs Chelsea, up there with St Etienne 77, financially how much was that worth to the club? With the slick marketing of FSG imagine what they could sell if that ground became the 1 nil start it used to be? cheaper than fucking up one transfer you can have the market mans dream

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/05/manchester-city-vincent-kompany-premier-league-drop-prices

[CraigDS]

I'm not sure cheaper prices means a better atmosphere, I mean it'll only massively increase demand for tickets and make them harder to get. Would need to go hand in hand with plenty of other initiatives too.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Nice to see Kompany speaking out and understanding that there are different types of full stadium