Author Topic: Atheism  (Read 189411 times)

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2840 on: September 2, 2023, 08:27:18 pm »


Sorry for your loss.

The church are still providing this, but I guess its a less popular vehicle for community spirit.
I got chatting to this girl recently, she was telling me she goes to church every Sunday  morning.  She doesn't believe in God. Shes a school teacher now  and is nervous of socialising with her old mates in case anything gets a bit raucous and her pupils find out so goes to church for the company.  For context she's 35.

We buried my mates Dad recently, he wasn't religious, but spent a lot of time in church, on his death bed he specified that a certain Reverend do the funeral. I chatted to the Reverend who knew the deceased
wasnt religious but was a popular member of the flock non the less. They also knew about his regular solo trips to Thailand.

As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2841 on: September 2, 2023, 09:03:01 pm »
We buried my mates Dad recently, he wasn't religious, but spent a lot of time in church, on his death bed he specified that a certain Reverend do the funeral. I chatted to the Reverend who knew the deceased
wasnt religious but was a popular member of the flock non the less. They also knew about his regular solo trips to Thailand.
My condolences, Kenny.

I'm from a Catholic background. Both my Mum and Dad would call themselves (Irish) Catholics, but have been non-practicing for many years. Both parents were unhappy with the Church for various reasons, but my Dad thoroughly disliked the impersonal nature of Catholic funerals. When my Dad passed away nearly two years ago, he was cremated (as per his wishes - and uncommon for Irish Catholics), and we used a Reverend who was recommended to us. The Reverend acted a MoS, and the service was full of music my Dad liked or held particular significance. It was about telling my Dad's story, including anecdotes, and remembering who he was. We also put together an order of service which was more like a mini life story, with moving, important and funny pictures. There was virtually no religious content to the service. My Dad would have loved it - I just wish that he could have been there to see it.

In my experience, if the ceremony is religious or not has little to do with whether or not a funeral is an uplifting experience. If the service respects the person who dies (Irish priests seem incapable of this), and aims to celebrate the essence of the person who has died, it will be a good experience. After the service for my Dad's brother (which my Dad thoroughly disliked because of its impersonal nature), the last thing we could for my Dad was to respect his wishes and give him the sendoff he would have wanted and deserved.
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2842 on: September 2, 2023, 09:11:03 pm »


very similar experiences, the Reverend hardly mentioned God apart from one Our Farther. Just stories of the deceased's  life, made better by the fact he actually knew him, also a cremation.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2843 on: September 2, 2023, 09:14:18 pm »
very similar experiences, the Reverend hardly mentioned God apart from one Our Farther. Just stories of the deceased's  life, made better by the fact he actually knew him, also a cremation.
My brother’s funeral was in Church.

Hard line atheist, gay, killed himself….  The vicar did a tremendous job of it, I have to be honest.

But then funerals are more for the loving than the dead, and I think my mum and dad appreciated it.
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2844 on: September 2, 2023, 09:19:01 pm »
My brother’s funeral was in Church.

Hard line atheist, gay, killed himself….  The vicar did a tremendous job of it, I have to be honest.

But then funerals are more for the loving than the dead, and I think my mum and dad appreciated it.

I hate funerals, specially jewish ones. You have to escort the coffin to the grave site, by rolling it along on a gurney and then all step up and put a shovel of dirt on top and then leave. The sound of dirt hitting a coffin is a terrible noise.

Sorry for your loss Tepid.
« Last Edit: September 2, 2023, 09:25:51 pm by Chakan »

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2845 on: September 2, 2023, 09:22:02 pm »
Crap, tepid. If you have posted about this before, I did not know of it before now. My sincere condolences.

I think, generally speaking, we feel OK (or even uplifted) about a funeral if the wishes of the deceased are respected. And in the main, this is how the living will feel best about it too.

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Offline Riquende

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2846 on: September 2, 2023, 09:22:18 pm »
Sorry for your loss.

Thanks. I didn't really want to dwell on the funereal aspect of things, but I suppose that too is an important part of the community spirit. In this case it was eye-rollingly about the 'glory of God' and all that. Very happy-clappy modern CofE stuff with a 'worship group' playing up-tempo songs about heaven etc. I'm sure it was right up my Aunt's alley but seemed less about her and more about her place in the church.

Maybe that's the crux of the issue? Can we be both important as individuals and also maintain a strong sense of community? Are we primarily ourselves, or part of the tribe?
"The nicest thing about quotes is that they give us a nodding acquaintance with the originator which is often socially impressive."

~ Kenneth Williams, with whom I'm noddingly acquainted. Socially impressed?

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2847 on: September 2, 2023, 09:24:54 pm »
My brother’s funeral was in Church.

Hard line atheist, gay, killed himself…. 
The vicar did a tremendous job of it, I have to be honest.

But then funerals are more for the loving than the dead, and I think my mum and dad appreciated it.

Sorry you experienced the first part, must have been fucking awful.
Glad the vicar did a good job though.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2848 on: September 2, 2023, 09:28:37 pm »
Thanks. I didn't really want to dwell on the funereal aspect of things, but I suppose that too is an important part of the community spirit. In this case it was eye-rollingly about the 'glory of God' and all that. Very happy-clappy modern CofE stuff with a 'worship group' playing up-tempo songs about heaven etc. I'm sure it was right up my Aunt's alley but seemed less about her and more about her place in the church.

Maybe that's the crux of the issue? Can we be both important as individuals and also maintain a strong sense of community? Are we primarily ourselves, or part of the tribe?
A close friend of mine died nearly 20 years ago under tragic circumstances. She was only 27. The service was conducted by some sort Evangelical group. It was really messed up - as was my deceased friend - and nearly everyone in attendance loathed it all. My friend was messed up the Church, so it sat extremely uncomfortable with us.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2849 on: September 2, 2023, 09:31:21 pm »
I hate funerals, specially jewish ones. You have to escort the coffin to the grave site, by rolling it along on a gurney and then all step up and put a shovel of dirt on top and then leave. The sound of dirt hitting a coffin is a terrible noise.

Sorry for your loss Tepid.
It was 15 years ago, my kids were born two weeks later…. Didn’t have much time to dwell on it to be honest.  And in many ways it made my mum and dads life easier …

Just remember the coffin being bloody heavy though!  I’m not sure why we couldn’t have had a trolley for it.


“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2850 on: September 2, 2023, 09:33:29 pm »
As a hardcore, fundamentalist, atheist (yes I know its an oxymoron)
I've told my family to spend as little as possible on the funeral, to the extent if I die in the street, dont pay to have my body moved, just let the council deal with it.
Spend the cash on a holiday. 

left instructions with two mates each part of very different groups of friends to organise a free bar. Both of them are minted so thats fine.

'



As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Chakan

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2851 on: September 2, 2023, 09:33:57 pm »
It was 15 years ago, my kids were born two weeks later…. Didn’t have much time to dwell on it to be honest.  And in many ways it made my mum and dads life easier …

Just remember the coffin being bloody heavy though!  I’m not sure why we couldn’t have had a trolley for it.


When my mum passed we absolutely refused to do a funeral. Getting cremated is against the Jewish religion, but we did it anyway (mom's wishes) then we waited a month and had a "celebration of life" party for her. Was so much better. The we went on a family vacation and spread her ashes in the sea.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2852 on: September 2, 2023, 09:38:28 pm »
When my mum passed we absolutely refused to do a funeral. Getting cremated is against the Jewish religion, but we did it anyway (mom's wishes) then we waited a month and had a "celebration of life" party for her. Was so much better. The we went on a family vacation and spread her ashes in the sea.
I know someone who got their mum buried in a non consecrated grave yard on the new forest…. A nice spot…
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2853 on: September 2, 2023, 09:43:10 pm »
When my mum passed we absolutely refused to do a funeral. Getting cremated is against the Jewish religion, but we did it anyway (mom's wishes) then we waited a month and had a "celebration of life" party for her. Was so much better. The we went on a family vacation and spread her ashes in the sea.

Interesting as its very similar to what I posted about my own funeral wishes.

I have a  large very private garden so told them to look into whats cheaper digging a big hole in the garden or paying for a cremation



As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2854 on: September 2, 2023, 10:07:45 pm »

Interesting as its very similar to what I posted about my own funeral wishes.

I have a  large very private garden so told them to look into whats cheaper digging a big hole in the garden or paying for a cremation


I don’t really think I care what happens to be honest. I will know sweet FA about it.  I suppose I should write something meaningful to be read out just in case….
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2855 on: September 2, 2023, 10:17:44 pm »
I don’t really think I care what happens to be honest. I will know sweet FA about it. 

Exactly

Quote
I suppose I should write something meaningful to be read out just in case….

Ill leave the speeches to the nobheads left behind, Ive organised a free bar, what more do they want
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2856 on: September 2, 2023, 10:28:56 pm »
Exactly

Ill leave the speeches to the nobheads left behind, Ive organised a free bar, what more do they want
Sausage rolls and mini sausages

;D
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline thejbs

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2857 on: September 2, 2023, 10:45:02 pm »
Just before I turned 40 I started getting mad pulsatile tinnitus. Fast forward 2 years and I’ve no hearing in one ear and a 40% loss in the other. This is one of the shittiest things that could’ve happened to me as 50% of my income involves making music.

Anyway, I just got diagnosed with a small tumour. Thankfully, it appears to be benign, but it really got me thinking of my mortality. On chatting through death plans with my wife she dismissed my very humanist plans. She instead says I should have a big long catholic funeral to troll my atheists mates. I like that idea.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2858 on: September 3, 2023, 11:03:05 am »
Just before I turned 40 I started getting mad pulsatile tinnitus. Fast forward 2 years and I’ve no hearing in one ear and a 40% loss in the other. This is one of the shittiest things that could’ve happened to me as 50% of my income involves making music.

Anyway, I just got diagnosed with a small tumour. Thankfully, it appears to be benign, but it really got me thinking of my mortality. On chatting through death plans with my wife she dismissed my very humanist plans. She instead says I should have a big long catholic funeral to troll my atheists mates. I like that idea.

Yes. A full Requiem mass with the priest in black robes, plenty of incense and holy water.

And the service in Latin.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2859 on: September 3, 2023, 06:31:40 pm »
Yes. A full Requiem mass with the priest in black robes, plenty of incense and holy water.

And the service in Latin.

My wife assured me she’ll find the oldest, slowest priest in the business. And a good rainy winter day would be ideal for any burial.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2860 on: September 3, 2023, 10:49:25 pm »
My wife assured me she’ll find the oldest, slowest priest in the business. And a good rainy winter day would be ideal for any burial.

Decided on whether or not to have an open coffin in the parlour? :D

Offline lobsterboy

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2861 on: September 4, 2023, 10:50:22 am »
If you want proof there's no God look at all the wealthy racist vile Tories packing out his churches in the shires.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2862 on: September 4, 2023, 10:55:32 am »
If you want proof there's no God look at all the wealthy racist vile Tories packing out his churches in the shires.

Wouldn’t the counter argument be packed out mosques, pretty much everywhere, and full churches in South America.

Offline Robinred

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2863 on: September 4, 2023, 12:10:21 pm »
Some very thoughtful posts on this page; yet not one in response to Iska’s long diatribe.

Good. It’s not worthy of a response, being so full of claptrap.
"The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology...as long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth." Mikhail Bakunin

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2864 on: September 4, 2023, 12:25:39 pm »
Some very thoughtful posts on this page; yet not one in response to Iska’s long diatribe.

Good. It’s not worthy of a response, being so full of claptrap.


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Offline thejbs

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2865 on: September 4, 2023, 11:21:53 pm »
Some very thoughtful posts on this page; yet not one in response to Iska’s long diatribe.

Good. It’s not worthy of a response, being so full of claptrap.

Didn’t know where to start, so just left it at that.

Offline Peabee

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2866 on: September 5, 2023, 12:51:29 am »
I understand why people want to believe in some higher power and afterlife, as it must be comforting. But we’re no more necessary than the first single cell microbe in even just the lifespan of the Earth. There’s no reason to our existence, but we have to give it meaning. We have - maybe unfortunately for other life forms - evolved enough to consider those questions, which could be said gives us a responsibility to the planet and its ecosystem, instead of just destroying it in a fight to the bottom for resources and the burning of those resources. We’ll destroy each other before we evolve enough to shed our base instincts. The planet will be fine of course.

Wars, racism, xenophobia, homophobia, Donald Trump being elected, etc, prove a material amount of humans still act on their base primal instincts (which have served their purpose along the way admittedly), rather than using their intelligence to fight the worst of those instincts. We’re all deluded, in different ways, and religion is maybe the biggest delusion. I understand it though, it’s easier than thinking about the reality of us being primitive life forms flying through the universe on a big rock with a fragile atmosphere.

But it’s humbling to acknowledge what we don’t know far outweighs what we do know. But that doesn’t mean we should revert to magical thinking to fill those unknown unknowns.

Atheism, in my opinion, is the logical way forward for humanity to strip its base instincts and to be truly civilised and advanced. And, as even the Pope acknowledged, religion is being used more than ever to excuse horrific behaviour and even government policies.
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Offline lobsterboy

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2867 on: September 6, 2023, 01:45:50 pm »
we do have an afterlife.
All the molecules that make us go on to make new organisms, fuel new processes and those of us who have offspring pass our genes on through them. That is how we live on. We borrow from existence then pass it forward.
And I prefer this reality to the abrahamic death cults trying to make me afraid of not living by their rules and following their lies for their gain. Live for today, live for the now and not for myths and lies of control.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2868 on: September 6, 2023, 01:50:25 pm »
Some very thoughtful posts on this page; yet not one in response to Iska’s long diatribe.

Good. It’s not worthy of a response, being so full of claptrap.

Was that the one were the religious funeral was better because they could tie a life back 2000 years?

Fuck that.
I'm having my life tied back to a supernova billions of years ago because that's were the stuff that makes me comes from.
The most explosive event in the known universe is far better than the fake news about a middle eastern hippy.

Offline thejbs

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2869 on: September 6, 2023, 11:02:14 pm »
we do have an afterlife.
All the molecules that make us go on to make new organisms, fuel new processes and those of us who have offspring pass our genes on through them. That is how we live on. We borrow from existence then pass it forward.
And I prefer this reality to the abrahamic death cults trying to make me afraid of not living by their rules and following their lies for their gain. Live for today, live for the now and not for myths and lies of control.

I recently was listening to a minister at a wedding marvelling at how the gold rings had been dug from the ground and forged into rings “by man”. If he discovers that gold on earth was (most likely) formed when massive neutron stars collided billions of years ago, before arriving on earth via interstellar asteroids 4 billion years ago, his mind will be blown.

That’s the thing with religion. They believe they’re thinking big, but they’re really so confined in their thinking.

Offline Peabee

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2870 on: September 6, 2023, 11:41:01 pm »
we do have an afterlife.
All the molecules that make us go on to make new organisms, fuel new processes and those of us who have offspring pass our genes on through them. That is how we live on. We borrow from existence then pass it forward.
And I prefer this reality to the abrahamic death cults trying to make me afraid of not living by their rules and following their lies for their gain. Live for today, live for the now and not for myths and lies of control.

Good points. Our atoms will be used again.
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2871 on: September 7, 2023, 11:30:49 am »
Good points. Our atoms will be used again.

Ably summarised in Jimmy Webb’s song “The Highwayman”.

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Online GreatEx

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2872 on: September 12, 2023, 11:45:07 pm »
I kind of agree with the premise that abandonment of the church has weakened community ties. Hell, I've read a bit about life in the dark and middle ages and it seems that even in those superstitious times most people treated church as a purely social occasion. Apparently many congregants would mill about chatting and doing business while the priest droned on in incomprehensible Latin. We don't really have that central meeting point in modern lives; population growth makes it untenable anyway. I live in a small quiet suburb where the local Cafe sort of serves the purpose; there's a group of blokes I chat with two or three times a week.

I've been to a few funerals both secular and religious. The worst was a dour religious one where the vicar clearly knew nothing of the deceased and just talked about God and Jesus, basically felt like the deceased was an irrelevance. But the best was also a religious one; a uni mate of mine who left his profession to become a vicar and whose wife and mother of his 4 kids died suddenly from heart failure at 40. I remember him as a lovely but also quite gruff and introverted fellow at uni, who had a small circle of friends but didn't really engage with student life and was happy to go straight home after classes. Yet his church had clearly turned his life around because here was speaking brilliantly with deep emotion but tremendous composure in front of a church that was absolutely packed with friends, about 900 at my estimation. Even though I can't bring myself to buy into the mythology, I am proud of the meaning and fulfilment he's found in life.

I don't buy the idea that objective moral anchors can only be formed through religion. For example, racism and homophobia are completely wrong - these are immutable truths to me which are impervious to political tides, and they're also truths that the church has had a patchy and inconsistent relationship with. Maybe a prescriptive text helps some people to hold the line, I don't need it.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2023, 11:47:46 pm by GreatEx »

Offline thejbs

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2873 on: September 14, 2023, 06:53:46 am »
My uni mate’s dad had a humanist funeral. Since I knew him, he had dementia so I had no relationship with him, really. But at his funeral I got an amazing sense of who he was and his passions. I learned about his young life, his uni life, the books he wrote, the music he loved. I got a real sense of the man I never knew.

Then, a few weeks later my mate’s mum died of cancer. An amazing, endlessly gifted women who was like a second mum to me as a teenager. Her big catholic funeral may as well have been that of a stranger. It was infuriating. A stranger wouldve learned nothing about her, only that she was a mum to three and a granny. Nothing about her amazing art skills or her love of music. No anecdotes to show off her sense of humour. I don’t blame the priests, but rather the institution.

Religious funerals bring me no peace. On the other hand, a big Irish wake really does.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2874 on: September 17, 2023, 01:44:41 am »
Some very thoughtful posts on this page; yet not one in response to Iska’s long diatribe.

Good. It’s not worthy of a response, being so full of claptrap.

I didn't originally see they/their (don't know Iska's pronouns, sorry) reply, as I posted just before going on holiday and we'd moved to a new page directly after when I was checking in. I did go and have a quick scan after your post and saw a mention of it being they/their last ever RAWK post so the whole thing wasn't worthy of even reading, let alone responding to.

I'll only quickly say good riddance. Excuse my hyperbole, but some of the stuff Iska posted honestly did chill me a little when I read it, it was an occasional reminder that there's a real darkness still among us, lurking under the mask of civility, that would happlily stand by and let others suffer for the sake of a society that's more comfortable for themselves and those others deemed acceptable. What makes it even worse is that they/their convince themselves of some kind of righteousness, as if even a cursory glance at the history of they/their 'Faith' doesn't immediately sweep the rug from out under that sad delusion.

Hopefully the numbers of people like Iska are dwindling, but the fervour of they/their fearfulness can still easily be weaponised.
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2875 on: September 17, 2023, 09:08:33 am »
I didn't originally see they/their (don't know Iska's pronouns, sorry) reply, as I posted just before going on holiday and we'd moved to a new page directly after when I was checking in. I did go and have a quick scan after your post and saw a mention of it being they/their last ever RAWK post so the whole thing wasn't worthy of even reading, let alone responding to.

I'll only quickly say good riddance. Excuse my hyperbole, but some of the stuff Iska posted honestly did chill me a little when I read it, it was an occasional reminder that there's a real darkness still among us, lurking under the mask of civility, that would happlily stand by and let others suffer for the sake of a society that's more comfortable for themselves and those others deemed acceptable. What makes it even worse is that they/their convince themselves of some kind of righteousness, as if even a cursory glance at the history of they/their 'Faith' doesn't immediately sweep the rug from out under that sad delusion.

Hopefully the numbers of people like Iska are dwindling, but the fervour of they/their fearfulness can still easily be weaponised.
Imagine Iska in 17th England, and someone was accused of witchcraft. Would Iska: 1. be their defender; 2. keep quiet out of legitimate fear and self-preservation; Or 3. be right at the front with a torch to set light to the abomination?

I do not think that comparison unfair, because we all are influenced by the times we live in. And none of here would be a fraction of what can be now, in a safish democracy, with education, and without the daily threat of the Church/state executing us in a horrific manner due to bizarre and backward superstitions. There was too much religious fervour within Iska.

Where I am being unfair is that Iska is (apparently) unlikely to read my words and have the opportunity to respond.
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2876 on: September 17, 2023, 11:31:25 am »
Imagine Iska in 17th England, and someone was accused of witchcraft. Would Iska: 1. be their defender; 2. keep quiet out of legitimate fear and self-preservation; Or 3. be right at the front with a torch to set light to the abomination?

I do not think that comparison unfair, because we all are influenced by the times we live in. And none of here would be a fraction of what can be now, in a safish democracy, with education, and without the daily threat of the Church/state executing us in a horrific manner due to bizarre and backward superstitions. There was too much religious fervour within Iska.

Where I am being unfair is that Iska is (apparently) unlikely to read my words and have the opportunity to respond.

None of us could safely claim immunity from the same kind of zealotry, superstition, cowardice I suppose. The problem of living under religious authority is that it rots good minds, as well as bad. It encourages immorality in practically everyone. Would I have been a witch burner like Iska? Probably not. But the chances are, my mind having been stuffed with priestly nonsense for years on end, I would have been in the crowd with you cheering the torchbearer on.
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2877 on: September 17, 2023, 11:55:50 am »
None of us could safely claim immunity from the same kind of zealotry, superstition, cowardice I suppose. The problem of living under religious authority is that it rots good minds, as well as bad. It encourages immorality in practically everyone. Would I have been a witch burner like Iska? Probably not. But the chances are, my mind having been stuffed with priestly nonsense for years on end, I would have been in the crowd with you cheering the torchbearer on.
Yep. Most of us, when it comes down to it, will seek self-preservation. Few people are truly courageous. And unless we are tested, we do not know. Which is why I take a dim view of people who shout 'coward' when someone (often without adequate training) has failed to act courageously in a life-treatening situation.

Very few people would attempt to defend the accused witch. You are correct: I expect, you, me, and nearly all here would have been in the crowd, cheering on Iska Witchfinder General. That kind of mob mentally is all too common, even now. Hopefully, though, most of us at RAWK would not be part of a modern mob, but would, rather, attempt to defend the present day equivalent of a witch.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2023, 12:08:48 pm by Jiminy Cricket »
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2878 on: September 17, 2023, 12:03:26 pm »
I would say that the temptation to join a mob is greater when there’s a religious warrant behind it. Not only can you torment someone, you can get the applause of Heaven too.
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #2879 on: September 17, 2023, 12:12:25 pm »
Iska returning to this thread: What the Beelzebub has happened here? Burn you heathens, burn!

* I do feel a bit guilty ribbing Iska without him being here. Hopefully he will return and read our comments. I'll feel much better then.
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