Topic: The Top Six Mini-League Thread... Sponsored by TENA

[newterp]

Theres probably good reason to panic, but what do you expect, to get top 4 without winning any games? At some stage youll need to stop worrying about what other people are doing and just win a couple of football matches, get the points, and thatll be that. If you dont, then you dont deserve to get there, because another team would have got more points.

ain't much stage left..... 

[Alan_X]

Theres probably good reason to panic, but what do you expect, to get top 4 without winning any games? At some stage youll need to stop worrying about what other people are doing and just win a couple of football matches, get the points, and thatll be that. If you dont, then you dont deserve to get there, because another team would have got more points.

Well if you're going to use logic and calm reasoning...

[Rush 82]

Well if you're going to use logic and calm reasoning...

Especially around these parts...

[PeterTheRed ...]

Utd and City will both win comfortably.

Because we have easily beaten Swansea at home, and Boro only have 12 draws in the league this season? Like I said, Boro and Swansea will be anything but a walk in the park for them over the weekend.

[KennyDaggers]

I understand the importance of it but it's grim that we're having such big topics discussing a 4th place finish.

We should be discussing titles not this modern game 4th place nonsense.

[jillcwhomever]

I understand the importance of it but it's grim that we're having such big topics discussing a 4th place finish.

We should be discussing titles not this modern game 4th place nonsense.

This is Klopp's first full year and you want a title already?  Give him a chance to build up to it first, he hasn't even got his first choice players in yet. It's about progression, you can't just walk straight in and win a title, we need to build. Once we have the pieces in place, then we can talk about challenging for titles. For now we need to improve on consistency, there will be no title until we can do that. It maybe nonsense the top four, but a team still needs to learn how to win titles. If it was that easy a lot more teams would be doing it.

[Lycan]

Top four might not be a trophy and it should never, ever be celebrated like it is one. Being in it is a great way to attract players that can possibly help your side win titles and trophies though.

[TheShanklyGates]

I understand the importance of it but it's grim that we're having such big topics discussing a 4th place finish.

We should be discussing titles not this modern game 4th place nonsense.

It's grim that we're all obsessing over a top 4 race but at least we actually have a a top 4 race to obsess over for once. We haven't been anywhere near it really for all but one season since Rafa.

[Lycan]

Yeah, we've got to start from somewhere.

[Giono]

You have just listed the main reasons as to why we will probably drop points against West Ham away. They are not good which makes it more worrying.

At least Southampton will try play a bit in our home game.

Que?
Can West Ham defend? Do they have a manger that can set-up a rigid defence?
Can Southampton? I think they can. 

[PeterTheRed ...]

I understand the importance of it but it's grim that we're having such big topics discussing a 4th place finish.

We should be discussing titles not this modern game 4th place nonsense.

Since we sacked Rafa back in 2010, we finished in the top 5 only once. From that perspective, finishing in the top 4 this season would be a very good achievement.

[Giono]

Since we sacked Rafa back in 2010, we finished in the top 5 only once. From that perspective, finishing in the top 4 this season would be a very good achievement.

There were a few posters in RAWK that with predictions that we would look back on Rafa's tenure as a bit of a golden age. Not me. I was disappointed, but not that dramatic. However history has proved them right. And we should rightly feel that 4th is an accomplishment these days. Not just because of our recent history, but also because of how competitive the top of the league has become over those 7 years.

[DG]

There were a few posters in RAWK that with predictions that we would look back on Rafa's tenure as a bit of a golden age. Not me. I was disappointed, but not that dramatic. However history has proved them right. And we should rightly feel that 4th is an accomplishment these days. Not just because of our recent history, but also because of how competitive the top of the league has become over those 7 years.

There's an even more grim way of looking at it:

Rafa's final season is very often considered the failure, if you like. Those who backed his sacking thought it unacceptable, myself included to some extent although I was firmly in the "must see improvement next season" camp. But we managed 63 points that year, and this season will be only the second time we've bettered it since.

So not only was his tenure here a bit of a golden age, his far and away worst season has only been bettered twice in seven years. And that's not even considering the kind of position we were in at the time.

[killer-heels]

There's an even more grim way of looking at it:

Rafa's final season is very often considered the failure, if you like. Those who backed his sacking thought it unacceptable, myself included to some extent although I was firmly in the "must see improvement next season" camp. But we managed 63 points that year, and this season will be only the second time we've bettered it since.

So not only was his tenure here a bit of a golden age, his far and away worst season has only been bettered twice in seven years. And that's not even considering the kind of position we were in at the time.

To be fair, Rafa had some team. Considering the players we had, we were terrible.

[Filler.]

Rafa's final season is very often considered the failure, if you like.

Oh it was very much a failure alright. Sorry, but the revisionism with Rafa has become absurd. He should never have been hounded out. We all had our issues... but that was a sad and sorry shitstorm. Please god less of the shitstorm.

Where were you/we when you saw Roy hold aloft the scarf? We'll all remember that for fucking ever.

[drmick]

There's an even more grim way of looking at it:

Rafa's final season is very often considered the failure, if you like. Those who backed his sacking thought it unacceptable, myself included to some extent although I was firmly in the "must see improvement next season" camp. But we managed 63 points that year, and this season will be only the second time we've bettered it since.

So not only was his tenure here a bit of a golden age, his far and away worst season has only been bettered twice in seven years. And that's not even considering the kind of position we were in at the time.

His worst season, points wise, was his first, not his last.

[didi shamone]

His worst season, points wise, was his first, not his last.

Yes but he's right in what he said. His last season was considered his failure.  There was a little cup win in the first as I recall.

[Suareznumber7]

I understand the importance of it but it's grim that we're having such big topics discussing a 4th place finish.

We should be discussing titles not this modern game 4th place nonsense.

Gotta walk before you can run

[God's Left Peg]

To be fair, Rafa had some team. Considering the players we had, we were terrible.

Really???

[nico 8]

There were a few posters in RAWK that with predictions that we would look back on Rafa's tenure as a bit of a golden age. Not me. I was disappointed, but not that dramatic. However history has proved them right. And we should rightly feel that 4th is an accomplishment these days. Not just because of our recent history, but also because of how competitive the top of the league has become over those 7 years.

For those who hounded Rafa out- let his unwarranted dismissal be a lesson. We now have a world class manager in Klopp who understands the club and the city and is a proven winner. As a fan base we need to be patient and give him and the team support. On that topic- our home support ( and as an OTT might be accused of not having any standing ) I believe, have been too selective in their support which has disappointed Klopp. Our support is nowhere near as vocal as that of Dortmund. Whilst our highest point may have do reached higher our average level falls well short. We are simply not doing enough.

[MNAA]

Gut says that there will be results going our way before we take on Watford. Hoping that will turn out to be true ...

[_Redman]

To be fair, Rafa had some team. Considering the players we had, we were terrible.

Are you serious?? who bought them players?? Premier league was much more competitive back then (2005-10), challenging for the CL every year and even sending 3 teams on the semis. The standard of the top teams in the league now is much lower.

[Redman78]

Are you serious?? who bought them players?? Premier league was much more competitive back then (2005-10), challenging for the CL every year and even sending 3 teams on the semis. The standard of the top teams in the league now is much lower.

At the same time Spurs are stronger and obviously man city are a lot stronger, I think it's harder to qualify for cl now. 

[killer-heels]

Because we have easily beaten Swansea at home, and Boro only have 12 draws in the league this season? Like I said, Boro and Swansea will be anything but a walk in the park for them over the weekend.

Yes, the game against Boro will be a walk in the park for City. Its an absolute banker for most top teams.

Utd will beat Swansea. Swansea have lost their last 6 on the road after they beat us and have scored just 2 goals. Its another banker win for Utd.

[rob1966]

Really???

For the standards Rafa had set, yes we were. Fully understandable with the c*nts at the top of the club being in all out war with each other. 7th placed league finish, out of the CL at the group stage, out of the FA Cup in R3 v Reading, League cup to Arsenal, not convinciing in the Europa even tough we made the semis, it was a poor season. Rafa was entitled to one though, he'd given us so many great seasons before it that he deserved that one to be written off as just one of those things.

As for the current season, as others have said, its still early days for Klopp, we are about where we can realistically expect to be. Its not a disaster if we fail to get CL - I honestly believe the players he wants will come anyway as they will want to play for him and know that they WILL get CL and will be challenging for the title and the CL, but like anyone I want to see CL back at Anfield and really want us to get top 4 this season. I also feel it won't be too early for him, he knows the CL and will do well, the players just need to show that they want the stage too - its 4 cup finals, just go out and win them all.

[killer-heels]

As for the current season, as others have said, its still early days for Klopp, we are about where we can realistically expect to be. Its not a disaster if we fail to get CL - I honestly believe the players he wants will come anyway as they will want to play for him and know that they WILL get CL and will be challenging for the title and the CL, but like anyone I want to see CL back at Anfield and really want us to get top 4 this season. I also feel it won't be too early for him, he knows the CL and will do well, the players just need to show that they want the stage too - its 4 cup finals, just go out and win them all.

Its very doubtful we will get our first choice players. Klopp is a big name but many players turned us down so how much he is a draw is questionable. Also, we are a maybe team for the CL so there is no gurantees here.

That said, we can still get good players even if they are 2nd and 3rd choice.

[the_red_pill]

Hahaha - that sweaty ballbag Mourinho saying we've got an "unfair advantage" in "the race for the top 4".
Apparently, facing your biggest opponents earlier in the season puts everyone else at a disadvantage. *faceplam*

And then there is this beauty...

‘First of all, I think we have played 18 more matches than Liverpool [this season],’ said Mourinho.

[rob1966]

Its very doubtful we will get our first choice players. Klopp is a big name but many players turned us down so how much he is a draw is questionable. Also, we are a maybe team for the CL so there is no gurantees here.

That said, we can still get good players even if they are 2nd and 3rd choice.

I'm an optimist as far as footy is concerned. I think we'll get most of the ones we want. Some we'll miss, but as far as I'm concerned I'd rather we got players who wanted to get us there rather than players who will turn us down because we're not there yet. One season out of the CL isn't going to harm their careers.

[rob1966]

Hahaha - that sweaty ballbag Mourinho saying we've got an "unfair advantage" in "the race for the top 4".
Apparently, facing your biggest opponents earlier in the season puts everyone else at a disadvantage. *faceplam*

He's a comedy figure now, pathetic little man.

[the_red_pill]

He's a comedy figure now, pathetic little man.

Just edited my post- he's complained about the fact they have had 18 more matches than us.

[killer-heels]

I'm an optimist as far as footy is concerned. I think we'll get most of the ones we want. Some we'll miss, but as far as I'm concerned I'd rather we got players who wanted to get us there rather than players who will turn us down because we're not there yet. One season out of the CL isn't going to harm their careers.

To be fair joining us is there any real confidence that we will make CL? We have been in there once since 2010.

The players we are going for can provably choose refular CL sides. We can however get the players that maybe the others are not that arsed about but we can get more out of. Mane and Wijnaldum are classic examples.

[jillcwhomever]

Hahaha - that sweaty ballbag Mourinho saying we've got an "unfair advantage" in "the race for the top 4".
Apparently, facing your biggest opponents earlier in the season puts everyone else at a disadvantage. *faceplam*

And then there is this beauty...

Klopp gave the perfect response to that. Pointed out we had the same challenge last season when we were in the Europa League. So basically just get on with it Mourinho. All that needs to be said on the subject.

[Chris~]

If a player joins us just because we qualify for the champions league this year I think they're pretty mad. Basing a big career move on the basis of a couple points swing seems crazy to me. We need to start getting there more often to start attracting better players, getting this year will hopefully be the start of that, but really don't think one season makes a huge difference to the level of player we can attract.

[_Redman]

Spurs - Arsenal, what do we want on that?? Of course Arsenal are rivals but a defeat on that might see them without motivation against the mancs next week??

[vblfc]

For the standards Rafa had set, yes we were. Fully understandable with the c*nts at the top of the club being in all out war with each other. 7th placed league finish, out of the CL at the group stage, out of the FA Cup in R3 v Reading, League cup to Arsenal, not convinciing in the Europa even tough we made the semis, it was a poor season. Rafa was entitled to one though, he'd given us so many great seasons before it that he deserved that one to be written off as just one of those things.

As for the current season, as others have said, its still early days for Klopp, we are about where we can realistically expect to be. Its not a disaster if we fail to get CL - I honestly believe the players he wants will come anyway as they will want to play for him and know that they WILL get CL and will be challenging for the title and the CL, but like anyone I want to see CL back at Anfield and really want us to get top 4 this season. I also feel it won't be too early for him, he knows the CL and will do well, the players just need to show that they want the stage too - its 4 cup finals, just go out and win them all.

[/b]. Like the last sentence and made me think.  Even with our shaky days, we can have cup final experiences now. Just beat Watford. First final. And then watch the energy grow match by match. Isnt this what its all about? Get behind Klopp and our boys final by final. Isnt matches with real meaning what we want?  Like it, I'm in.

[Lycan]

Spurs - Arsenal, what do we want on that?? Of course Arsenal are rivals but a defeat on that might see them without motivation against the mancs next week??

A draw. But I wouldn't be too upset if Spurs won.

[JackWard33]

Spurs - Arsenal, what do we want on that?? Of course Arsenal are rivals but a defeat on that might see them without motivation against the mancs next week??

Arsenal are going to struggle in both those games I think - especially vs Spurs. Wouldn't be surprised to see them lose both they're terrible at the moment

[jillcwhomever]

If a player joins us just because we qualify for the champions league this year I think they're pretty mad. Basing a big career move on the basis of a couple points swing seems crazy to me. We need to start getting there more often to start attracting better players, getting this year will hopefully be the start of that, but really don't think one season makes a huge difference to the level of player we can attract.

I understand what you mean, but maybe they sense we are a team that is developing and for some players that in itself is an attraction. There is also the added incentive of working with a manager like Jurgen Klopp, say nothing of the fact that we do have a great European history. For some players they like challenges, they're not all about just trophies. Some players want to be at a place when they feel they can progress their careers and stretch themselves. Going to places like City and Chelsea is pointless unless you're the top notch, as you will spend endless time sitting on the bench. At Liverpool you have a better chance of developing and playing on a regular basis, and progressing your career.

[drmick]

I understand what you mean, but maybe they sense we are a team that is developing and for some players that in itself is an attraction. There is also the added incentive of working with a manager like Jurgen Klopp, say nothing of the fact that we do have a great European history. For some players they like challenges, they're not all about just trophies. Some players want to be at a place when they feel they can progress their careers and stretch themselves. Going to places like City and Chelsea is pointless unless you're the top notch, as you will spend endless time sitting on the bench. At Liverpool you have a better chance of developing and playing on a regular basis, and progressing your career.

Hierarchy of what foreign players rank as reasons for choosing a PL club:

1. Wages
2. Champions League football
3. London

I think things like a club's history, and who the manager is, are considered much less important. We are always going to lose out to City, Utd, and Chelsea if they after the same players. Nearly always will lose out to Arsenal. And potentially in the not too distant future, we might see players choose Spurs, like Siggurdsson did.

[jillcwhomever]

Hierarchy of what foreign players rank as reasons for choosing a PL club:

1. Wages
2. Champions League football
3. London

I think things like a club's history, and who the manager is, are considered much less important. We are always going to lose out to City, Utd, and Chelsea if they after the same players. Nearly always will lose out to Arsenal. And potentially in the not too distant future, we might see players choose Spurs, like Siggurdsson did.

You're entitled to your opinion but I am more optimistic than that. Each to their own.