Author Topic: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas  (Read 236742 times)

Offline Jonny_H

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1960 on: January 30, 2020, 12:06:44 pm »
That could have already happened for this season - the sale for Aston Villa was effectively a ballot in all but name!
Exactly there is a reasonable chance this has happened. I had 19 last season and so far 18 this season as missing Villa. I put on feedback that whether they stick with current system or move to ballot people in guaranteed should not be put into a ballot or all members sale for any games. As like this season you could be leaving someone with full credits out of the ground for a title winning match.


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Offline davidsteventon

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1961 on: January 30, 2020, 12:38:26 pm »
I know us members on 19 are not guaranteed but the reality is for years and years with effort we’ve been able to maintain. And a bit of good luck.

That notification says...

Thanks for supporting LFC over the years.
From next year you will attend 3 less games because we care more for the new fans than you.
Warmest regards.
LFC.

Offline matt_lfc

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1962 on: January 30, 2020, 01:04:56 pm »
I know us members on 19 are not guaranteed but the reality is for years and years with effort we’ve been able to maintain. And a bit of good luck.

That notification says...

Thanks for supporting LFC over the years.
From next year you will attend 3 less games because we care more for the new fans than you.
Warmest regards.
LFC.

13+ Would still be guaranteed all 19 games as per the original post.


The Club is exploring removing the ‘1st come 1st served’ sales for matches where the Club cannot guarantee that tickets will be available to all that apply, and introducing a ballot process as the alternative.

Sales where Members are guaranteed a ticket based on the number of games recorded in the previous season would remain unchanged, ie. In 2019/20 the sales that were in place for Members with 13+ games.

How it would work

Those Members not guaranteed a ticket would be able register for the ballot for every game they wish to attend.
There would be two ballot registration periods, one for games to be played up to 31 December, the other for all remaining games until the end of the season.  Both registration periods would take place well in advance of each ticket sale, a minimum of 2 weeks prior.
In each registration period, there would be separate ballots for selected matches based on eligibility criteria , ie the 2019/20 sale in place to Members with 4+ games, and the sale in place to all Members.
Members would be randomly selected via an independent ballot process undertaken by Civica Election Services, (formerly Electoral Reform Services), who the Club used for last season’s cup final ticketing ballots.
Those successful in the ballots would be guaranteed a ticket.

Offline RebeccaLFC

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1963 on: January 30, 2020, 01:10:09 pm »
13+ Would still be guaranteed all 19 games as per the original post.


The Club is exploring removing the ‘1st come 1st served’ sales for matches where the Club cannot guarantee that tickets will be available to all that apply, and introducing a ballot process as the alternative.

Sales where Members are guaranteed a ticket based on the number of games recorded in the previous season would remain unchanged, ie. In 2019/20 the sales that were in place for Members with 13+ games.

How it would work

Those Members not guaranteed a ticket would be able register for the ballot for every game they wish to attend.
There would be two ballot registration periods, one for games to be played up to 31 December, the other for all remaining games until the end of the season.  Both registration periods would take place well in advance of each ticket sale, a minimum of 2 weeks prior.
In each registration period, there would be separate ballots for selected matches based on eligibility criteria , ie the 2019/20 sale in place to Members with 4+ games, and the sale in place to all Members.
Members would be randomly selected via an independent ballot process undertaken by Civica Election Services, (formerly Electoral Reform Services), who the Club used for last season’s cup final ticketing ballots.
Those successful in the ballots would be guaranteed a ticket.

13+ Sales remain unchanged. So currently 13 + only guarantees you a minimum of 16.

They never put newly promoted clubs in the 13+ sale, unless it’s the last fixture of the season. I assume the Norwich one was an anomaly this year.

So we would still have to enter ballots for 3 games. 

Offline swoopy

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1964 on: January 30, 2020, 01:10:48 pm »
I hate having to purchase tickets / apply for a ballot for games being played in December in July! If they want to help slightly cut down on the number of tickets getting passed on etc. they should stop putting tickets on sale in July for games played 5 months later. Wait until the TV Fixtures are confirmed and then a few more will only buy for games they are able to attend, instead of speculatively buying / applying for something they have not even the slightly idea of if they can go to.

Offline nickyd186

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1965 on: January 30, 2020, 01:12:05 pm »
I hate having to purchase tickets / apply for a ballot for games being played in December in July! If they want to help slightly cut down on the number of tickets getting passed on etc. they should stop putting tickets on sale in July for games played 5 months later. Wait until the TV Fixtures are confirmed and then a few more will only buy for games they are able to attend, instead of speculatively buying / applying for something they have not even the slightly idea of if they can go to.

Exactly put every game on sale 28 days before the match like the old postal applications.
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Offline Jonny_H

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1966 on: January 30, 2020, 01:23:11 pm »
13+ Would still be guaranteed all 19 games as per the original post.


The Club is exploring removing the ‘1st come 1st served’ sales for matches where the Club cannot guarantee that tickets will be available to all that apply, and introducing a ballot process as the alternative.

Sales where Members are guaranteed a ticket based on the number of games recorded in the previous season would remain unchanged, ie. In 2019/20 the sales that were in place for Members with 13+ games.

How it would work

Those Members not guaranteed a ticket would be able register for the ballot for every game they wish to attend.
There would be two ballot registration periods, one for games to be played up to 31 December, the other for all remaining games until the end of the season.  Both registration periods would take place well in advance of each ticket sale, a minimum of 2 weeks prior.
In each registration period, there would be separate ballots for selected matches based on eligibility criteria , ie the 2019/20 sale in place to Members with 4+ games, and the sale in place to all Members.
Members would be randomly selected via an independent ballot process undertaken by Civica Election Services, (formerly Electoral Reform Services), who the Club used for last season’s cup final ticketing ballots.
Those successful in the ballots would be guaranteed a ticket.
The problem is 13+ will not guarantee all tickets as it stands. This season it has only guaranteed 17.


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Offline FTH

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1967 on: January 30, 2020, 01:23:29 pm »
As someone who attends every game regardless, I much prefer the current bulk sales instead of having to work 19 sales around my work commitments.

Offline davidsteventon

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1968 on: January 30, 2020, 02:04:38 pm »
The problem is 13+ will not guarantee all tickets as it stands. This season it has only guaranteed 17.

Yeah this is what I was trying to say but I’d said 3 and yeah this year was 2.
The message to me is sorry you can’t go to 2 games next season.
That’s how I read it. For my situation.

Offline Tiz Lad

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1969 on: January 30, 2020, 02:44:21 pm »
Yeah this is what I was trying to say but I’d said 3 and yeah this year was 2.
The message to me is sorry you can’t go to 2 games next season.
That’s how I read it. For my situation.

Think that's how most of us on 19 read it.

Currently 1 in 12 chance of winning a ballot. Given under this system anybody can buy a membershipm, fill in a form and enter ballots. They'd have put in zero effort with the website and for that reason I would expect a massive increase in membership numbers and that 1 in 12 chance will probably rise to 1 in 15 or 1 in 20

Offline scouser102002

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1970 on: January 30, 2020, 02:50:47 pm »
Yeah this is what I was trying to say but I’d said 3 and yeah this year was 2.
The message to me is sorry you can’t go to 2 games next season.
That’s how I read it. For my situation.

Agreed. We know now we can get those final 2 games but they are taking that away and saying you’re going into a prize draw for them instead with very slim odds of being successful

Offline redgriffin73

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1971 on: January 30, 2020, 03:00:17 pm »
Think that's how most of us on 19 read it.

Currently 1 in 12 chance of winning a ballot. Given under this system anybody can buy a membershipm, fill in a form and enter ballots. They'd have put in zero effort with the website and for that reason I would expect a massive increase in membership numbers and that 1 in 12 chance will probably rise to 1 in 15 or 1 in 20


People want something for nothing nowadays, that's the problem. I've seen this being discussed on FB and the general consensus is that the club should make it as easy as possible for them to apply and get tickets. God forbid you have to put some work in to build up loyalty.

All of us on 13+ are gonna be praying the first and last games of the season are newly promoted sides!
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

Offline matt_lfc

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1972 on: January 30, 2020, 03:05:42 pm »
People want something for nothing nowadays, that's the problem. I've seen this being discussed on FB and the general consensus is that the club should make it as easy as possible for them to apply and get tickets. God forbid you have to put some work in to build up loyalty.

All of us on 13+ are gonna be praying the first and last games of the season are newly promoted sides!

But by what your saying 'putting the work in' sometimes your job dictates how much work you can put in.

Someone on a computer all day or a flexiable job or no job can whereas a lorry driver for instance can't...

The drops off tickets atm are luck of the draw and more or less a ballot anyway, but only to those who are on the ticketing page at a specfic time of day when 10 tickets come up and then blame bots for taking them.

A ballot where your given a time frame to apply and an email to comfirm succesfull or not suits all.

Offline redgriffin73

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1973 on: January 30, 2020, 03:32:11 pm »
But by what your saying 'putting the work in' sometimes your job dictates how much work you can put in.

Someone on a computer all day or a flexiable job or no job can whereas a lorry driver for instance can't...

The drops off tickets atm are luck of the draw and more or less a ballot anyway, but only to those who are on the ticketing page at a specfic time of day when 10 tickets come up and then blame bots for taking them.

A ballot where your given a time frame to apply and an email to comfirm succesfull or not suits all.

I'm just talking about the bulk sales, not the all-day refreshing, but I appreciate not everyone can be online at 8.15am either. But all clubs must have this issue, I know some start their sales at 9am, although I know some do sales on Saturdays too. There will always be people that sale times don't suit though. 8.15am isn't great for me either to be honest, I've had to take time off to sit and get them many times over the years - even worse are the random 11am or 2pm cup sales, but I still don't want a ballot for them. No way could I sit and do the constant refresh of the late sales. We used to have to queue outside the ground, imagine asking people to do that now!

I just feel like this ballot idea will massively lower everyone's chances. People think it sounds an easy solution for them now, until they find they are number 50,000 on the ticket waiting list! Maybe just the late drops should be a ballot, or just a specific number from the bulks? I know everyone wants the solution to be the one that suits them best though!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 03:42:51 pm by redgriffin73 »
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

Offline MacKon

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1974 on: February 3, 2020, 07:31:51 pm »
It's not your customer number which you use to login etc., but what exactly is this number? I've sourced a tout but I'm not sure if his facebook name is his real name too. Besides, his membership cards and season tickets might be in different names.
150-200 quids a ticket on most occasions unless it's something really rare and difficult to buy (like Atletico away - 500 pounds!), also selling Man Utd and sometimes other clubs.
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Offline bertiemee

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1975 on: February 3, 2020, 09:03:15 pm »
It's not your customer number which you use to login etc., but what exactly is this number? I've sourced a tout but I'm not sure if his facebook name is his real name too. Besides, his membership cards and season tickets might be in different names.
150-200 quids a ticket on most occasions unless it's something really rare and difficult to buy (like Atletico away - 500 pounds!), also selling Man Utd and sometimes other clubs.

report it to the club

Offline MacKon

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Offline FranklyRed

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1977 on: February 5, 2020, 06:43:15 pm »
There must be quite some people selling their match tickets. Up here in The Netherlands there are more than 10 footballtravel agencies who sell trips. Loose tickets from > 300 Euros.
Not to forget only ticket agencies. And that is only my country. In 1994 I was one of the first 1000 member of the then first Int. Supporters Club. I just sent an e-mail/fax ... to the club if I could somehow buy a ticket and it was arranged in a day... well early days of the internet and my first time ever to Anfield. Nowadays it is hardly impossible to get tickets when you do not want to pay the inflated prices. 
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Offline Shanklygates

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1978 on: February 5, 2020, 08:23:03 pm »
Hope you've passed on the details of these ticket agencies to the club :) The touting is on "an industrial scale" they said  >:(
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Offline Milly B

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1979 on: February 6, 2020, 09:32:36 am »
Dawson Travel in Ireland selling one day trip including ticket for Chelsea in May for €2800!!!!

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1980 on: February 6, 2020, 09:48:09 am »
Dawson Travel in Ireland selling one day trip including ticket for Chelsea in May for €2800!!!!

Surely this is illegal?
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Offline Tommypig

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1981 on: February 6, 2020, 09:59:41 am »
Surely this is illegal?

not really say its a dugout ticket (which are legal to transferred) he can argue its face value or a gift and the charge is for the accomodation and flight

Offline fowler_dk

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1982 on: February 6, 2020, 11:24:56 am »
Hope you've passed on the details of these ticket agencies to the club :) The touting is on "an industrial scale" they said  >:(

Many of these agencies are not doing it illegal. Several of the very well known and respected travel agencies here in Denmark also sell football packages. They buy hospitality tickets and then add hotel and maybe flights and then sell them on at very high prices but I am sure that Liverpool knows that these agencies buy the hospitality packages.

When we checked into Marriott last Friday a lot of other people was also checking in and most of them were handed envelopes with tickets from a travel agency.

Offline FTH

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1983 on: February 6, 2020, 12:28:39 pm »
Many of these agencies are not doing it illegal. Several of the very well known and respected travel agencies here in Denmark also sell football packages. They buy hospitality tickets and then add hotel and maybe flights and then sell them on at very high prices but I am sure that Liverpool knows that these agencies buy the hospitality packages.

When we checked into Marriott last Friday a lot of other people was also checking in and most of them were handed envelopes with tickets from a travel agency.
It's legalised touting and needs clamping down on.

Offline 30fiver

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1984 on: February 6, 2020, 12:33:01 pm »
It's legalised touting and needs clamping down on.

The club charging 500/600 per hospo ticket that was 250/350 last season is just as bad

Offline Milly B

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1985 on: February 6, 2020, 12:41:05 pm »
Watched the Shrewsbury replay Tuesday night on the worldwide feed, at half time there was no analysis or ad breaks, it just had the camera on from the main stand side looking across at the centenery and bar the 2 blocks at either end of the upper centenery the other 7 blocks were 99% empty, which seems like there's a huge amount of hospitality seats going on in there now, as the other 3 sides of the ground were around 60% at half time, this is another reason why regular tickets have become so hard to come by in recent times in my opinion.

Offline daindan

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1986 on: February 6, 2020, 01:08:28 pm »
Watched the Shrewsbury replay Tuesday night on the worldwide feed, at half time there was no analysis or ad breaks, it just had the camera on from the main stand side looking across at the centenery and bar the 2 blocks at either end of the upper centenery the other 7 blocks were 99% empty, which seems like there's a huge amount of hospitality seats going on in there now, as the other 3 sides of the ground were around 60% at half time, this is another reason why regular tickets have become so hard to come by in recent times in my opinion.

Around front 12 rows of upper kenny is hospitality

Offline Danny Boy

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1987 on: February 6, 2020, 01:35:49 pm »
Around front 12 rows of upper kenny is hospitality

Not sure if all of them are hospitality but they do have plusher seats as I'm just a few across in CE2 and they're different to mine.

Offline FTH

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1988 on: February 6, 2020, 03:48:20 pm »
Not sure if all of them are hospitality but they do have plusher seats as I'm just a few across in CE2 and they're different to mine.
They are hospitality but get re-sold as general tickets if needed.

Offline daindan

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1989 on: February 6, 2020, 03:59:32 pm »
They are hospitality but get re-sold as general tickets if needed.

Front 12 rows of the kenny in the plusher seats are all seasonal hospitality, not even sold game by game by the club anymore

Offline Danny Boy

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1990 on: February 6, 2020, 04:05:21 pm »
Front 12 rows of the kenny in the plusher seats are all seasonal hospitality, not even sold game by game by the club anymore

That's mad, I had no idea of that. So actually the ratio of STH in Upper Kenny is pretty low then if majority is seasonal hospo/members sales.

Offline Schmarn

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1991 on: February 6, 2020, 04:10:45 pm »
The club charging 500/600 per hospo ticket that was 250/350 last season is just as bad

They were £250 for Isla Gladstone/Anny Road in the first half of this season including the City game.  They doubled the prices for the second half of the season once it became clear we were going to win the league.

As others have said, it's basically supply and demand but the current prices are now so high that it rules it out for most people even on a one off basis.

Still, there's always F5 for the true supporters...

Offline FTH

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1992 on: February 6, 2020, 04:52:01 pm »
Front 12 rows of the kenny in the plusher seats are all seasonal hospitality, not even sold game by game by the club anymore
I had 4 tickets there but was 4 years ago now, must have changed.

Offline AR48

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1993 on: February 13, 2020, 09:28:01 pm »
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/13/football-tickets-being-resold-on-stubhub-at-huge-profit-full-scale

Wow. So frustrating! Around 5% of tickets are resold on stubhub alone per match...


Offline ScubaSteve

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1994 on: February 13, 2020, 10:33:15 pm »
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/13/football-tickets-being-resold-on-stubhub-at-huge-profit-full-scale

Wow. So frustrating! Around 5% of tickets are resold on stubhub alone per match...

You should see the price of the tickets on stub hub for the Chelsea game..funnily enough all on the US stub hub not UK.

The club aren’t bothered never will be

Offline DangerScouse

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1995 on: February 13, 2020, 10:46:21 pm »
You should see the price of the tickets on stub hub for the Chelsea game..funnily enough all on the US stub hub not UK.

The club aren’t bothered never will be

I'm not sure your last line is entirely true. There's unquestionably been a more concerted effort to address touting in recent seasons. The recent fan update is proof of that.

Offline scouser102002

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1996 on: February 13, 2020, 11:01:42 pm »
They are adamant fan update was nothing to do with tackling touting though and they are going to let STHs change names.

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1997 on: February 13, 2020, 11:59:27 pm »
You should see the price of the tickets on stub hub for the Chelsea game..funnily enough all on the US stub hub not UK.

The club aren’t bothered never will be
not sure what they can do as it’s legal in the us to sell english football tickets

Offline 30fiver

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1998 on: February 14, 2020, 08:07:16 am »
They are adamant fan update was nothing to do with tackling touting though and they are going to let STHs change names.

It was though in some aspects, as you cannot transfer unless you have proof the current name on the card with dob and address etc exists

That's why touts couldn't transfer memberships into real names, because they required the details on the card to be a legit person already

Offline Kenny19

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Re: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas
« Reply #1999 on: February 14, 2020, 04:09:11 pm »
Just read the following about Dortmund:

Borussia Dortmund have asked anyone who has paid more than the face value price for a ticket to send in the details of their ticket to the club.
The person who has bought the ticket will receive NO punishment but they can then track the original source of whoever bought it.

If true hope many clubs will take note and do this as well