Author Topic: The Men in Suits behind the scenes  (Read 589355 times)

Online Mighty_Red

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #480 on: January 2, 2019, 06:43:58 pm »
That isn't the point though. It is about someone with no playing or coaching experience defining a Clubs philosophy.

You're talking as if we have just plucked a random guy off the street and asked him to head up the whole organisation. Let's give the entire team some bloody credit, Edwards was part of the team that got Klopp in the first place, and we are doing brilliantly to sign all the players he wants.

Our transfer strategy (both incoming and outgoing) has improved massively and it is not solely down to Klopp.

What you are saying that, in a hypothetical situation 3/4 years into the future, a guy who has shown promise in the current setup will not gain the expertise needed to help make the the club make it's next managerial appointment? The keyword being "help", he isn't the big boss of everything and that's why the setup is currently working.
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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #481 on: January 2, 2019, 06:47:05 pm »
A single training session is about 60-120 minutes. One morning session per week isn't going to massively impact his role, and he really only needs to do it once per week (and even then, there's nothing stopping him from skipping a session when needed).

Cheers PoP, agree with all of that.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #482 on: January 2, 2019, 06:47:48 pm »
I dont get that mate.  If we were looking to hire a new manager how would Edwards, or anyone else at LFC know how that particular manager took training sessions before we hired them?

I doubt Levy has invited Woodward down to watch Pochetino take a training session

I have a library of every current Premier League manager's training sessions. Some I got myself, and some I got from other coaches doing their visits, and others are available on the internet. I have training sessions and season plans from Barca, the Milans, the two Madrids, Leeds, Forest, Middlesbrough, Ipswich, Derby, some Irish teams, Porto, Benfica, Ajax, MLS teams, Betis, Oviedo, and more.

I'm just a scrub with a U7 Coaching Manual ;D

The information is attainable at every level. Knowing what to look for, though, is the trick, and there are Chairmen and DoF's who don't know what to look for, and they make stupid appointments as a result. There was one in 2013 that gave us all great entertainment for most of the season, for a start ;D
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #483 on: January 2, 2019, 06:49:52 pm »
You're talking as if we have just plucked a random guy off the street and asked him to head up the whole organisation.

Isn't that what United did with Woodward? ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #484 on: January 2, 2019, 06:52:09 pm »
Why does it matter as long as that person has the ability to do so?

What evidence can you provide that Edwards has the ability to define a philosophy and identify someone who can implement it

You were so obsessed Edwards couldn’t do this role previously due to him being a laptop guy and have been proven ever so wrong, so why are you still banging that drum?

No let's be a bit more precise Craig the point I made was that he wouldn't be able to do the role as defined in his job. description. The point I made was that a laptop guy shouldn't be in charge of running the Football side of a Club. More specifically defining the Clubs phillosophy, style of play and player recruitment. You know what a DoF/SD is supposed to do.

For me it is clearly Klopp who defines our philosophy, it is Klopp who defines our style of play and it is Klopp as shown by the VVD signing is in charge of transfers.

You are looking to portray Edwards as an amazing DoF/SD. If that is the case then in a traditional DoF/SD system the Coach is the expendable one.

So that raises the question if we had to lose one of them tomorrow are you really suggesting that you would choose to keep Edwards.
« Last Edit: January 2, 2019, 06:57:02 pm by Al 555 »
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #485 on: January 2, 2019, 06:52:09 pm »
I have a library of every current Premier League manager's training sessions. Some I got myself, and some I got from other coaches doing their visits, and others are available on the internet. I have training sessions and season plans from Barca, the Milans, the two Madrids, Leeds, Forest, Middlesbrough, Ipswich, Derby, some Irish teams, Porto, Benfica, Ajax, MLS teams, Betis, Oviedo, and more.

I'm just a scrub with a U7 Coaching Manual ;D

The information is attainable at every level. Knowing what to look for, though, is the trick, and there are Chairmen and DoF's who don't know what to look for, and they make stupid appointments as a result. There was one in 2013 that gave us all great entertainment for most of the season, for a start ;D

Surely Celtic....?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #486 on: January 2, 2019, 06:55:05 pm »
Let’s be honest, as with any signing, be it player, coach or manager, we will source information and options from multiple sources who will all be specialists in their field.

If that means Edwards seeks coaching advice from someone (maybe Klopp himself, for example) then he will do so. I also doubt it will be just him making the final call, as has been the case previously.

Anyway, this all seems very premature to get worked up about  ;D

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #487 on: January 2, 2019, 06:59:25 pm »
Let’s be honest, as with any signing, be it player, coach or manager, we will source information and options from multiple sources who will all be specialists in their field.

If that means Edwards seeks coaching advice from someone (maybe Klopp himself, for example) then he will do so. I also doubt it will be just him making the final call, as has been the case previously.

Anyway, this all seems very premature to get worked up about  ;D

They’re all doing a cracking job

His job description by the way....

‘The 37-year-old is being promoted into a newly-created role as part of a restructuring of the football operations. Edwards will now lead the club’s overall football development, including player identification, acquisitions, sales and retention, as well as taking primary responsibility for reviewing and implementing improvements to the training ground environment and infrastructure.’

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/241881-reds-appoint-michael-edwards-as-sporting-director

I guess it might be possible that his role, even though it has the same title as Zool, might have different responsibilities.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #488 on: January 2, 2019, 07:03:52 pm »
They’re all doing a cracking job

His job description by the way....

‘The 37-year-old is being promoted into a newly-created role as part of a restructuring of the football operations. Edwards will now lead the club’s overall football development, including player identification, acquisitions, sales and retention, as well as taking primary responsibility for reviewing and implementing improvements to the training ground environment and infrastructure.’

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/241881-reds-appoint-michael-edwards-as-sporting-director

I guess it might be possible that his role, even though it has the same title as Zool, might have different responsibilities.


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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #489 on: January 2, 2019, 07:04:31 pm »
this thread has gone off the rails

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #490 on: January 2, 2019, 07:06:25 pm »
this thread has gone off the rails

In what way?  ;D

It’s about as close to ‘on subject’ as you could get.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline wige

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #491 on: January 2, 2019, 07:08:19 pm »
What evidence can you provide that Edwards has the ability to define a philosophy and identify someone who can implement it

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/michael-edwards-liverpool-fsg-klopp-12124673

https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/9m3i3r/revealed_secrets_of_the_jurgen_klopp_revolution/

"But then there was Edwards’ work. He will not interview on-the-record, and he is peeved that there are now one or two photos of him on Google: for years he could go incognito to spy on targets. These included managers, into whose recruitment Liverpool pour as much research as when they sign players. That sounds commonsense but Southampton are the only Premier League rival to scout coaches similarly. Maurizio Sarri’s impact at Chelsea is no surprise to Edwards, who has monitored and admired the Italian since his 2012-15 stint at Empoli.

Edwards’ team compiled a 60-page dossier on Klopp. He spoke to journalists, players, colleagues. A rival option was dismissed after Edwards spent five days in the same hotel observing the candidate: how he was with people, his planning of training. At one point he sat anonymously nearby and listened to Klopp on the phone.

The key signings of the Klopp era have been made via meticulous research, combining Graham’s data with the scouting reports. Edwards challenges the orthodoxy of clubs watching a player once, then sending a scout back a few weeks later to see them again. Liverpool watch in blocks of 15-20 games to get a true picture of consistency and performance. There is emphasis on how players train, and every January scouts go around the world to watch European clubs at their winter break camps. Edwards himself stood by the side of a pitch in Marbella watching Salah practise with Basel"

Which took 2 minutes to google.


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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #492 on: January 2, 2019, 07:15:47 pm »
Stalker Edwards  :o

Offline wige

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #493 on: January 2, 2019, 07:30:23 pm »
Think the wider point to this is the fallacy that the running of Liverpool Football club, or any elite European club, is, should be or was ever run by one person. It's a collective effort.

FSG bought us when we were at probably our lowest ebb for around 15/18 years. Sure, we'd not yet slipped to that lowly league position under Hogson, but we were crippled with debt, weak in terms of squad depth and bleeding elite players at an alarming rate. They, by their own admission, "didn't know football - but would learn".

It's always annoyed the hell out of me that people expected that learning to be like a binary switch. Well they've been here X long, they should know by now. Nonsense. It is, and was, an ongoing process. Mistakes had to be made, learned from, and all this while the game and market continued to change around them.

We now sit in a position where we have the highest quality squad I've seen in my adult/conscious period of supporting the club. We have one of the world's elite managers and his chosen staff in place. They're supported by a young, but experienced, guy in Edwards, and some pretty fucking intelligent guys ahead of them. Henry, Werner, Gordon et al may be reclusive, but they've proven that they'll invest, and they've got a track record of success in a highly competitive futures market alongside the sporting success and development of the Red Sox.

They've no doubt learned that in this game, you can't just succeed by that Moneyball methodology (though I don't know enough about the Red Sox to know if that was 100% of the reason for their success there) Instead they've learned, they've fucked up, they've built a sustainable profitable business which reinvests into the club, and ultimately, the team. They've listened to and built rapport with the supporters - again, by making mistakes and learning from them.

We have a team, a collective, a group of people, all pulling in the same direction. Big portions of that are down to the Manager at the time and the DoF, but it's ridiculous to say it's a choice between them, or that they do it all alone.

I used to run a small team in my line of work. Every 2/3 months or so, new features and developments would come out and we'd have the opportunity to request new items, inherit some, or adapt existing solutions. My director and I would have a high level conversation, but all of this tied into the wider way the company works, available development resource, available budget, value added, etc etc - but that research and analysis was carried out by the whole team. The whole team would meet to discuss pros/cons, where the most gains were to be made, etc etc etc. It all fed back in to the ultimate goal - to be a successful business.

Now, Football is more than a business, but I'd be stunned if Klopp, Edwards etc etc don't work in similar ways. They have a high level direction, along with the commercial side - "Be successful, win things, make money" That will have been broken down into smaller, tangible goals and targets - Play attractive football, win games, sign commercial deals, keep fans happy etc. Then further smaller steps and so on. Manageable, achievable, delegated.
« Last Edit: January 2, 2019, 07:36:29 pm by wige »

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #494 on: January 2, 2019, 07:43:01 pm »
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/michael-edwards-liverpool-fsg-klopp-12124673

https://www.reddit.com/r/LiverpoolFC/comments/9m3i3r/revealed_secrets_of_the_jurgen_klopp_revolution/

"But then there was Edwards’ work. He will not interview on-the-record, and he is peeved that there are now one or two photos of him on Google: for years he could go incognito to spy on targets. These included managers, into whose recruitment Liverpool pour as much research as when they sign players. That sounds commonsense but Southampton are the only Premier League rival to scout coaches similarly. Maurizio Sarri’s impact at Chelsea is no surprise to Edwards, who has monitored and admired the Italian since his 2012-15 stint at Empoli.

Edwards’ team compiled a 60-page dossier on Klopp. He spoke to journalists, players, colleagues. A rival option was dismissed after Edwards spent five days in the same hotel observing the candidate: how he was with people, his planning of training. At one point he sat anonymously nearby and listened to Klopp on the phone.

The key signings of the Klopp era have been made via meticulous research, combining Graham’s data with the scouting reports. Edwards challenges the orthodoxy of clubs watching a player once, then sending a scout back a few weeks later to see them again. Liverpool watch in blocks of 15-20 games to get a true picture of consistency and performance. There is emphasis on how players train, and every January scouts go around the world to watch European clubs at their winter break camps. Edwards himself stood by the side of a pitch in Marbella watching Salah practise with Basel"

Which took 2 minutes to google.



What you are describing here is analysis mate. What Edwards was doing was collecting data and compiling a dossier. That is what analysts and scouts do. That is what Liverpool did half a century ago. What they didn't do was to allow Twentyman to choose managers or to decide how Liverpool would play.

Comolli is a perfect example he could identify good players, he used a similar methodology in identifying players but that didn't mean he had a philosophy or could build a team. Suarez and Carroll in the same window proved that.

Football is all about knowing how you want to play, recruiting the right players, coaching and above all emphasing players positive attributes whilst negating their shortcomings.

Klopp is a master at that. People talk about us signing fantastic players but is that really the case. In 2018 we went for out and out quality but before that did we sign good to very good players and Klopp turned them into world beaters. He has a track record of doing that.

Robertson, Mane and Shaqiri are good examples. Robertson was seen as someone with great energy, good going forward but a little suspect defensively. Mane was seen as a temperamental attacking player. Shaqiri was seen as talented but lazy wide player with a questionable attitude.

Mane now works his nuts off, has switched sides and is brilliant at protecting Robbo. Robbo has been a revelation. The problem though was that switching Mane for Coutinho meant we were less creative. Klopp remedies that by turning Shaqiri into a whirlwing central attacking force.

Salah has gone from a 20 goal a season winger to a 50 goal a season attacker. Bobby has been a revelation as a false 9, Gini has been transformed from a goal getting 10 into an eight or even a six. Milner was brilliant as a Left back, Gomez has been transformed defensively.

Now an analyst could measure their output but could he build a team like that or even have the knowledge to identify a Coach who is capable of staying ahead of the curve.

"Ohhh-kayyy"

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #495 on: January 2, 2019, 07:45:11 pm »
The club is absolutely flying so Al has to find a complete non issue to endlessly moan about.

Happy 2019 RAWK.

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #496 on: January 2, 2019, 07:49:55 pm »
The club is absolutely flying so Al has to find a complete non issue to endlessly moan about.
Tbf it can also be quite hilarious at times. Like him claiming FSG are doing a poor job with the Red Sox :lmao .

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #497 on: January 2, 2019, 07:53:41 pm »
What you are describing here is analysis mate. What Edwards was doing was collecting data and compiling a dossier. That is what analysts and scouts do. That is what Liverpool did half a century ago. What they didn't do was to allow Twentyman to choose managers or to decide how Liverpool would play.

Comolli is a perfect example he could identify good players, he used a similar methodology in identifying players but that didn't mean he had a philosophy or could build a team. Suarez and Carroll in the same window proved that.

Football is all about knowing how you want to play, recruiting the right players, coaching and above all emphasing players positive attributes whilst negating their shortcomings.

Klopp is a master at that. People talk about us signing fantastic players but is that really the case. In 2018 we went for out and out quality but before that did we sign good to very good players and Klopp turned them into world beaters. He has a track record of doing that.

Robertson, Mane and Shaqiri are good examples. Robertson was seen as someone with great energy, good going forward but a little suspect defensively. Mane was seen as a temperamental attacking player. Shaqiri was seen as talented but lazy wide player with a questionable attitude.

Mane now works his nuts off, has switched sides and is brilliant at protecting Robbo. Robbo has been a revelation. The problem though was that switching Mane for Coutinho meant we were less creative. Klopp remedies that by turning Shaqiri into a whirlwing central attacking force.

Salah has gone from a 20 goal a season winger to a 50 goal a season attacker. Bobby has been a revelation as a false 9, Gini has been transformed from a goal getting 10 into an eight or even a six. Milner was brilliant as a Left back, Gomez has been transformed defensively.

Now an analyst could measure their output but could he build a team like that or even have the knowledge to identify a Coach who is capable of staying ahead of the curve.



You can't just label everything in those articles - and the many other examples that you could find on the web - as "data" it's much more than that.

The first article describes how Edwards was first a player, then started off the field work in 2003. That's 15 years of working under different philosophies, different managers, different owners, different situations. Sure - he could have just done nothing but focus on his role as data analyst, but he'll also have had the opportunity and exposure to so much more in those roles and clubs.

Yes - the Manager is a huge, crucial part of this all. The wider point though is about creating sustainable success. Klopp has said previously that he's not sure what the future holds, and I'm pretty sure he's mentioned that 7 years will probably be it for him. Edwards should, and the articles above already show he has been, scouting the next replacement. He doesn't need to "define a philosophy" - we already have one; Succesful, attacking football while developing the players we buy and those that come through the academy. All (such a small word for such a huge task) he has to do is identify, from the world's collection of coaches, the best one to take over.  Some of that will be through data - win rates, trophies, blah blah blah, but also, crucially, the non-data - personality, integrity, inter-personal skills, drive, determination etc etc etc.

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #498 on: January 2, 2019, 08:10:59 pm »
Why does it matter as long as that person has the ability to do so?

You were so obsessed Edwards couldn’t do this role previously due to him being a laptop guy and have been proven ever so wrong, so why are you still banging that drum?

Because to do otherwise would be an admission...
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #499 on: January 2, 2019, 08:15:58 pm »
The club is absolutely flying so Al has to find a complete non issue to endlessly moan about.

Happy 2019 RAWK.

Except I am not moaning Craig.

Just challenging the notion that this is part of some cunning plan. For me it is very simple our fortunes changed when our owners stopped trying to re-invent the wheel and brought in a World Class manager. What some of us have been asking them to do for years.

That we have kicked on not because FSG and Edwards learned from their mistakes but because we finally started bringing in proven World Class players who have improved us in the here and now. Something some of us have been asking them to do for years.

Now some posters are ignoring the abilities of Klopp and trying to kid us that it was just a learning curve come good. 
"Ohhh-kayyy"

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #500 on: January 2, 2019, 08:17:02 pm »
Cant believe Edwards helped identify really good players who fit with the coach.

Seriously, using the fact that the players we signed are better here than they were elsewhere as a negative against anybody is mad. Isnt that good scouting when others do it? Isnt that what good recruitment is? Signing players who fit in with what a coach needs/likes so they can make them better?

I know the answer is moving the goalposts but stll


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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #501 on: January 2, 2019, 08:18:36 pm »
Except I am not moaning Craig.

Just challenging the notion that this is part of some cunning plan. For me it is very simple our fortunes changed when our owners stopped trying to re-invent the wheel and brought in a World Class manager. What some of us have been asking them to do for years.

That we have kicked on not because FSG and Edwards learned from their mistakes but because we finally started bringing in proven World Class players who have improved us in the here and now. Something some of us have been asking them to do for years.

Now some posters are ignoring the abilities of Klopp and trying to kid us that it was just a learning curve come good. 

No one has done that.

About 3 posts above you said those players weren't world class, and that Klopp had developed them. Now they were bought as world class?

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #502 on: January 2, 2019, 08:26:26 pm »
Cant believe Edwards helped identify really good players who fit with the coach.

Seriously, using the fact that the players we signed are better here than they were elsewhere as a negative against anybody is mad. Isnt that good scouting when others do it? Isnt that what good recruitment is? Signing players who fit in with what a coach needs/likes so they can make them better?

I know the answer is moving the goalposts but stll



Except he didn't did he. He was involved in the decision to bring in Benteke AND Bobby in the same window. We had a farcical situation in which our recruitment team and our previous manager both recruited players for their own ends.

The change in our recruitment policy and the way the team has developed is for me down to Klopp best evidenced by his refusal to sign anyone but VVD.
"Ohhh-kayyy"

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #503 on: January 2, 2019, 08:27:39 pm »
No one has done that.

About 3 posts above you said those players weren't world class, and that Klopp had developed them. Now they were bought as world class?

No I didn't I said in the last year or so we have started signing ready made world class players.

As for people saying that it was just a learning curve and FSG just had to learn from their mistakes then this is a pretty good example.

It would work differently on the transfer side, but it’s because we’d have a different manager with a different system of football. The insights from the playing side would be different - the players they target might have a different profile. But that’s one part of the whole team in place.

The Director of Football is the one who should also play a part here - having a longer term vision of the style of football. That continuity in style of football is not only a club identity, it makes business sense! Imagine going from an attack minded manager to a Mourinho, and facing a mass clear out as the current crop of players don’t fit well enough in the system of the new manager. So, that means, when/if Klopp leaves, they need to bring in another manager with a similar system of football to make use of the crop of players.

The crop of players is churned more than the manager, but it’s also important to buy the right type of players for that system (of course, the manager wants this more than anyone as he’s managing the football on the pitch!)

 So whatever happens, the crop of players at any one time should fit in with the managers philosophy. But that philosophy should be guided by the DoF when choosing the next crop of managers. It’s like a modern day version of the bootroom - and hopefully should be a system which finally catapults us to sustained success and competitiveness at the highest level. Something only a handful of clubs like Real Madrid and Barcelona seem to have managed so far, with the likes of Us, Chelsea and Man City building towards it in our leagues. That is to say, a system which is competitive for the highest honours despite the football manager in place. Man Utd have painfully found out the pitfalls of not having such a system in place post Ferguson. Under Mourinho and 100s of millions of investment in the team, they’ve just found out the pitfalls of not having that overarching philosophy in place - if they had, it would have guided them away from a Mourinho and Van Gaal.

So Klopp’s a massive part of it, but it should still work well in terms of us being competitive without him. It’s important to have that DoF above a manager because the management cycle is pretty short in the high level game now. That’s how the clubs who always compete for the CL and leagues do it on a sustained basis. Look at the amount of managers Barcelona and Real Madrid have had the last 10-15 years! Didn’t stop them constantly competing for leagues/CL (maybe one off season here or there in either competition, but they’re always at the top competing in general). We’re trying to build that here and it’s brilliant to see it working so effectively.

It started with Comolli and throughout the process it had more than a few teething problems. But it was a football system that produced top top level attacking footballers. Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling, Coutinho were brought in and/or nurtured in that Football management system. The attacking philosophy of football saw them play attacking football under at least 2 managers, and they were showcased in PL and European competition as outstanding attackers. They were sold for more than 250m, an incredible generation of value by those who brought them in and trained them on the pitch. That has had a direct impact on us being able to buy Alisson and Van Dijk on top of the big money spent on the likes of Keita, Salah, Mane and Fabinho. And they seem to have hit home runs with not only them, but in the nurturing of Trent and Gomez and the incredibly cheap purchases of Robertson and Shaqiri. It’s an even bigger generation of value by the new management team in Edwards, Klopp and Gordon.

That is because the system now is firing on all cylinders - they’re a proper management team. There’s a philosophy in place to bring attacking football to Anfield. So they bring Klopp in and given the previous management’s top job in bringing through the likes of Coutinho et al, there was a massive investment possible for Klopp to build his ideal team. They all work well together as evidenced by the way we play football as well as the results.

Congratulations to those at the top of the club having the foresight to put this system in place. Despite the teething problems along the way, this is what it has currently developed into. And it looks like it’s finally firing on all cylinders that we are now competing for the top honours. A CL final and now sitting top of the PL with massive matches almost every other week. I hope it continues to develop the football team for years to come and successfully wins and competes for the biggest honours every season.
« Last Edit: January 2, 2019, 08:30:39 pm by Al 555 »
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Offline wige

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #504 on: January 2, 2019, 08:34:26 pm »
No I didn't I said in the last year or so we have started signing ready made world class players.

As for people saying that it was just a learning curve and FSG just had to learn from their mistakes then this is a pretty good example.


Your post said 'ignoring the abilities of Klopp' the one you've quoted clearly doesn't.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #505 on: January 2, 2019, 08:39:49 pm »
Except I am not moaning Craig.

Just challenging the notion that this is part of some cunning plan. For me it is very simple our fortunes changed when our owners stopped trying to re-invent the wheel and brought in a World Class manager. What some of us have been asking them to do for years.

That we have kicked on not because FSG and Edwards learned from their mistakes but because we finally started bringing in proven World Class players who have improved us in the here and now. Something some of us have been asking them to do for years.

Now some posters are ignoring the abilities of Klopp and trying to kid us that it was just a learning curve come good.

Um.....is that not learning from their mistakes Al?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #506 on: January 2, 2019, 08:52:08 pm »
Your post said 'ignoring the abilities of Klopp' the one you've quoted clearly doesn't.

Of course it does. Coaches of the ability and the willingness to commit to a Club long term are incredibly rare.
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Offline wige

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #507 on: January 2, 2019, 08:53:50 pm »
Of course it does. Coaches of the ability and the willingness to commit to a Club long term are incredibly rare.

'So Klopp's a massive part of it'.

Yep. Ignored.

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #508 on: January 2, 2019, 08:54:58 pm »
Like I said - off the rails! Lol.

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #509 on: January 2, 2019, 08:56:47 pm »
Like I said - off the rails! Lol.

Yeah, sorry for being a part of that. Will leave it now!

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #510 on: January 2, 2019, 08:58:08 pm »
Um.....is that not learning from their mistakes Al?

Frankly no. It is a bit like someone telling you that you push the handle down to open the door. Instead of that you spend 5 years trying to find a different way. Then after 5 years you give up and push the handle down. You might call it learning from your mistakes I call it wasting 5 years.

Shock horror you combine the resources of one of the richest Clubs in the World with a visionary manager and you get a very good Football team. Who would of thought it eh.
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Offline The Last Known Survivor

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #511 on: January 2, 2019, 08:59:03 pm »
Except I am not moaning Craig.

Just challenging the notion that this is part of some cunning plan. For me it is very simple our fortunes changed when our owners stopped trying to re-invent the wheel and brought in a World Class manager. What some of us have been asking them to do for years.

That we have kicked on not because FSG and Edwards learned from their mistakes but because we finally started bringing in proven World Class players who have improved us in the here and now. Something some of us have been asking them to do for years.

Now some posters are ignoring the abilities of Klopp and trying to kid us that it was just a learning curve come good.


Why can't it be both. We got a world class manager and our behind the scenes football side of it improved as well. They are not mutually exclusive, in fact I would guess it is a fairly symbiotic relationship..

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #512 on: January 2, 2019, 09:02:47 pm »
Why can't it be both. We got a world class manager and our behind the scenes football side of it improved as well. They are not mutually exclusive, in fact I would guess it is a fairly symbiotic relationship..

I think this is a fair point, but as a rebuttal, the real value of metrics would be seen in our ability to bring in many top class young players who are nearly first-team ready, and I'm not sure we see any of that. Ultimately, for me, metrics cuts out the scouting noise and lets you focus your efforts in a more efficient way (which is why it didn't work under Rodgers, because we were anything but efficient then).

But the basis of scouting still comes down to the same things - speed, skill, stamina, intelligence and workrate/lifestyle. Apart from Robinson, I'm not sure we've unearthed any hidden gems. Our transfer work so far in the past year has been old-school traditional - find good players with a good set of skills and make sure they fit the tactical plan, then pay what's needed to get them.
Better looking than Samie.

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #513 on: January 2, 2019, 09:03:39 pm »
Frankly no. It is a bit like someone telling you that you push the handle down to open the door. Instead of that you spend 5 years trying to find a different way. Then after 5 years you give up and push the handle down. You might call it learning from your mistakes I call it wasting 5 years.

Shock horror you combine the resources of one of the richest Clubs in the World with a visionary manager and you get a very good Football team. Who would of thought it eh.

And on that note  ;D
Yeah, sorry for being a part of that. Will leave it now!
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #514 on: January 2, 2019, 09:08:17 pm »

Why can't it be both. We got a world class manager and our behind the scenes football side of it improved as well. They are not mutually exclusive, in fact I would guess it is a fairly symbiotic relationship..

Because the evidence suggests otherwise. We didn't gradually get better. In the summer before Klopp arrived our recruitment team and Gordon brought in Benteke and Bobby in the same window. They also replaced Pascoe and Marsh with Gary Mac and O'Driscoll as coaches. So it wasn't a gradual improvement right up until Klopp arrived we were making ridiculous decisions. Klopp changed our fortunes.
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Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #515 on: January 2, 2019, 09:14:12 pm »
Because the evidence suggests otherwise. We didn't gradually get better. In the summer before Klopp arrived our recruitment team and Gordon brought in Benteke and Bobby in the same window. They also replaced Pascoe and Marsh with Gary Mac and O'Driscoll as coaches. So it wasn't a gradual improvement right up until Klopp arrived we were making ridiculous decisions. Klopp changed our fortunes.

And it's not possible they learned from mistakes and that is why Klopp was brought in, or that he has taught them and Edwards a thing or two about recruiting, so again, they've learned.

But no, let's go for

Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #516 on: January 2, 2019, 09:14:33 pm »
Because the evidence suggests otherwise. We didn't gradually get better. In the summer before Klopp arrived our recruitment team and Gordon brought in Benteke and Bobby in the same window. They also replaced Pascoe and Marsh with Gary Mac and O'Driscoll as coaches. So it wasn't a gradual improvement right up until Klopp arrived we were making ridiculous decisions. Klopp changed our fortunes.

The whole backend changed too though, and has evolved since too.

Klopp is a massive massive reason for our fortunes currently. He isn’t the only reason though.

We’ve seen top managers here, and at other clubs, under shite (and even slightly incompetent) owners achieve absolutely nothing.

Christ youve even banged the drum yourself for years that a manager needs top support behind the scenes.

Offline McrRed

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #517 on: January 2, 2019, 09:22:08 pm »
Because the evidence suggests otherwise. We didn't gradually get better. In the summer before Klopp arrived our recruitment team and Gordon brought in Benteke and Bobby in the same window. They also replaced Pascoe and Marsh with Gary Mac and O'Driscoll as coaches. So it wasn't a gradual improvement right up until Klopp arrived we were making ridiculous decisions. Klopp changed our fortunes.
The decision making was skewed because we had a hybrid system. One that was flawed, as previously stated.
Once the hybrid was removed, and there was a clear direction (under the aforementioned world class manager) the already fantastic scouting system could flourish.
Bobby Firmino is a great buy.
Benteke wasn't.
Salah was good... but this good? We didn't have to fight for him. But the metrics we'd identified were good and history tells the rest.

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #518 on: January 2, 2019, 10:02:37 pm »
I have a library of every current Premier League manager's training sessions. Some I got myself, and some I got from other coaches doing their visits, and others are available on the internet. I have training sessions and season plans from Barca, the Milans, the two Madrids, Leeds, Forest, Middlesbrough, Ipswich, Derby, some Irish teams, Porto, Benfica, Ajax, MLS teams, Betis, Oviedo, and more.

I'm just a scrub with a U7 Coaching Manual ;D

The information is attainable at every level. Knowing what to look for, though, is the trick, and there are Chairmen and DoF's who don't know what to look for, and they make stupid appointments as a result. There was one in 2013 that gave us all great entertainment for most of the season, for a start ;D


Cheers for the reply. :thumbup


You sick fuck  :o

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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Michael Edwards set to become Liverpool's sporting director
« Reply #519 on: January 2, 2019, 10:04:37 pm »
Better looking than Samie.