Author Topic: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig  (Read 99531 times)

Offline tubby

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #360 on: November 17, 2016, 03:41:47 pm »
Spoiler
I think he scalped her.
[close]

Agreed.

Spoiler
One thing on the theory of Bernard being a host version of Arnold, that suggests that literally no one who has worked in the park the whole of Bernard's time there has ever seen Arnold, which would be a bit of a stretch as he's the co-founder.  Surely someone must know what the actual Arnold looked like.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #361 on: November 17, 2016, 03:59:09 pm »
Agreed.

Spoiler
One thing on the theory of Bernard being a host version of Arnold, that suggests that literally no one who has worked in the park the whole of Bernard's time there has ever seen Arnold, which would be a bit of a stretch as he's the co-founder.  Surely someone must know what the actual Arnold looked like.
[close]
Spoiler
Isn't that the idea behind the different timeline theory? If there's a ~30-year gap between some of the scenes we're seeing (Delores and William being in the past and the MiB being present for example) then there's every chance no-one is there now from Arnold's time.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #362 on: November 17, 2016, 04:16:28 pm »
Did anyone else spot this in episode 6 I think?



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Offline tubby

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #363 on: November 17, 2016, 04:17:22 pm »
Spoiler
Isn't that the idea behind the different timeline theory? If there's a ~30-year gap between some of the scenes we're seeing (Delores and William being in the past and the MiB being present for example) then there's every chance no-one is there now from Arnold's time.
[close]

Spoiler
But this is one of the biggest companies in the world, surely people would be aware of who the two geniuses behind it are?  I'm struggling to see how no one at all in the MiB's timeline would know what the other person who created the hosts looked like, especially in the era of tech they have at their disposal.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #364 on: November 17, 2016, 04:26:59 pm »
Spoiler
But this is one of the biggest companies in the world, surely people would be aware of who the two geniuses behind it are?  I'm struggling to see how no one at all in the MiB's timeline would know what the other person who created the hosts looked like, especially in the era of tech they have at their disposal.
[close]
Spoiler
I'd guess that Arnold and Ford have locked themselves away in 'Westworld' for most of their lives, creating the hosts and story lines, access to them is probably very limited and the technology and security is controlled by them.........the old reclusive genius's
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Offline oojason

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #365 on: November 17, 2016, 06:26:55 pm »
Did anyone else spot this in episode 6 I think?





Aye, and a few statues, armour and clothes too where Elsie is in part of the episode too - a nod/homage to Medieval and Roman Worlds in the original film :)
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Offline Igor Tripod Biscan

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #366 on: November 17, 2016, 06:46:36 pm »
SO there are 3 episodes left and they are doing a second series, cant help but think there will be a bullshit cliff-hanger like most tv programmes these days

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #367 on: November 17, 2016, 06:48:32 pm »
Did anyone else spot this in episode 6 I think?





It doesn't look like anything to me
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Offline oojason

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #368 on: November 17, 2016, 06:57:55 pm »
SO there are 3 episodes left and they are doing a second series, cant help but think there will be a bullshit cliff-hanger like most tv programmes these days


According to Jimmi Simpson (William) it won't be a cliffhanger...

http://screenrant.com/westworld-season-1-finale-cliffhanger/

but you never know...
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Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #369 on: November 17, 2016, 07:07:57 pm »
SO there are 3 episodes left and they are doing a second series, cant help but think there will be a bullshit cliff-hanger like most tv programmes these days


They will have finished filming ages before they got renewed, probably ages before they even started showing series one.

Edit: The wrap party was in May.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 07:10:03 pm by my last name. »
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Offline cptrios

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #370 on: November 18, 2016, 05:14:15 am »
Watched 1-7 this week as I had some time off.

Spoiler

The reveal of Bernard as an android was spoiled for me, but that entire scene is amazing and I watched it several times in reaction videos on YT to see people slowly work it out for themselves.

I believe this is set across two timelines. William is the Man in Black. When Bernard went into Ford's private room with Theresa he couldn't see the door, but then we've already seen him in that room before with Dolores, haven't we? Bernard is an android replicate of Arnold, who we see in the past interviewing Dolores and other androids. He discovers Dolores is obtaining free will and lets her grow. This will have a big impact later on, as something she does will change William and he'll begin his more villainous approach, trying to discover how she awakened. William starts with a white hat, symbolic of a hero, and now wears all black, the self-chosen villain of the game to see it through. He'll be an anti-villain. I'm not convinced that in the present at ep 7 he is aware that the AI has become self aware. Maybe he'll be the first guest to discover this.

I believe that Arnold died but I don't know how yet. I think its too cheap to have him be killed by Ford. We know Ford is a sick fuck after what he did to Theresa and I think maybe Dolores kills Arnold somehow, resulting in Ford sticking her in a horrible loop where she is raped and killed after witnessing her family be slaughtered every day until the end of days, as revenge.

Ford's utter humiliation of Theresa was beyond savage, this is a closed-off woman that he sent Bernard after so he could learn more about her. When she attempted a powerplay on him, he not only revealed that the only man she had feelings for was a robot (this meant he was designed to do this), but orders him to execute her, a complete show of 100% control.

Ford obviously likes playing God, I think Arnold wanted the AI to be free outside of WW and co-exist with humanity but Ford wasn't ready for that and wanted everything within. Expect some bullshit to come soon because Arnold now is literally the Deus Ex Machina of this show, the god in the machine. I think the maze is freedom for the androids. I don't think its a doorway or anything like that. I have this joke that at the end of the maze is an android dressed up in period drama clothes reciting Shakespeare in a loop. There's a violent delight at the violent end of the maze, an awakening for the hosts.

I also think Bernard will reawaken as Arnold and kill Ford. I haven't been able to link together why I think "Arnard" will kill Ford but at the same time not have his death be directly related to Arnold, but hey there's more to come from Hopkins' character. Perhaps Ford wants to replace everyone outside of Westworld, in the real world, with a host, and he can play God with the planet as his playground, and that's not what Arnold intended.

Maeve will be the leader of the robo revolution, but also a martyr. She'll go too far and be killed off just before the spark becomes a flame. I think Dolores tries to do this early on in the past and is given a hard reset, but in time (aka a couple more seasons) take on the role of revolution leader that hears the voice of God, all Jean D'Arc like.
[close]

Spoiler
This might seem like an obnoxious point, but I think it's important to note that, as far as we know, none of the hosts is a true AI. They're pretty damn close, especially Bernard, but they're still capable only of what they're programmed to be. They do have more processing power than a human brain, according to Felix, and this is used to simulate intelligence really well. Maeve, for example, seems to be self-aware, and maybe she is, but it's a self-awareness that's been designed to fit her character. Even her dialogue is "scripted" in a way, using an inference engine,with only a bit of leeway for improvisation. The hosts, therefore, are far more complex, advanced versions of the characters in Crusader Kings 2 (quite possibly the best non-narrative video game ever made, btw). Their personalities are boiled down to a series of IF-THEN reactions rather than a spontaneous, creative decision-making process.

From Ford's conversation with Bernard about the bicameral mind, etc., we know that Arnold was trying to give them that consciousness and creativity through almost mystical means. I'm guessing that's what the maze is - some kind of series of situations/decision points designed to spark a true AI organically out of the existing framework.
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Offline oojason

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #371 on: November 21, 2016, 03:24:18 am »
episode 8 spoiler -
Spoiler
Seems Bill & Ted's excellent adventure all but confirmed... Maeve is one bad tweetybird to Sylvester - Felix will be next?  What an episode - not quite sure what was going on - but good to know Logan will be the right hand man of the King... (R+L=MiB ;))
[close]

Need a deep and dreamless slumber after that.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 03:53:21 am by oojason »
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Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #372 on: November 21, 2016, 05:28:27 pm »
Well I'm thoroughly confused!
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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #373 on: November 21, 2016, 05:31:32 pm »
Spoiler
cracking episode, was the woman who was Bernards wife on the phone conversation the tech on the park we see during the Dolores flashback?
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Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #374 on: November 21, 2016, 06:11:14 pm »
Spoiler
cracking episode, was the woman who was Bernards wife on the phone conversation the tech on the park we see during the Dolores flashback?
[close]
Spoiler
No, different actress.
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Offline Trada

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #375 on: November 21, 2016, 08:57:28 pm »
Episode 8 what an Episode information overload. 
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Offline Gili Gulu

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #376 on: November 21, 2016, 09:49:27 pm »
Possible clue about MiB = W.

Spoiler
Another clue pointing towards the Man in Black being William:

When the MiB and Teddy found the blonde lady host lying on the ground, he recognised her, and commented that he thought they had "retired her".

She was the host who met William when he first arrived at the park.
[close]
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 09:53:07 pm by leftfooter »
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Offline oojason

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #377 on: November 22, 2016, 12:24:53 am »

Some interesting analysis and breakdown of what occurred in Episode 8 here - http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/westworld-season-1-episode-8-trace-decay-who-is-wyatt  (you may not agree with all of it - or share the author's viewpoints - but it does make sense for the main part, so far...)

Episode 9 promo (don't watch until you're up to date and have watched episode 8) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWX2NjN6SuY
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Offline Red_Irishman

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #378 on: November 22, 2016, 12:27:11 am »
Some interesting analysis and breakdown of what occurred in Episode 8 here - http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/westworld-season-1-episode-8-trace-decay-who-is-wyatt  (you may not agree with all of it - or share the author's viewpoints - but it does make sense for the main part, so far...)

Episode 9 promo (don't watch until you're up to date and have watched episode 8) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWX2NjN6SuY
That's the promo for episode 9.
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Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #379 on: November 22, 2016, 12:57:45 am »
Spoiler
really don't know why Felix has played into Muave's hands so much. Even the other guy, they must be able to do something before she wakes up in the room with them. No idea why he didn't brick her, then was shocked about what she did and what she's planning to do.
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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #380 on: November 22, 2016, 02:55:14 am »
Spoiler
really don't know why Felix has played into Muave's hands so much. Even the other guy, they must be able to do something before she wakes up in the room with them. No idea why he didn't brick her, then was shocked about what she did and what she's planning to do.
[close]

Spoiler
Curiosity has gotten the better of Felix the cat. He wants to see where all this goes. It'll cost him his life once he realises he's let her go too far.
[close]

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #381 on: November 22, 2016, 04:33:55 am »
A little bit disappointed with that episode.

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #382 on: November 22, 2016, 09:42:53 am »
Spoiler
Curiosity has gotten the better of Felix the cat. He wants to see where all this goes. It'll cost him his life once he realises he's let her go too far.
[close]

Spoiler
Isn't it more that she's basically alive at this point, so to blank her would be really killing her now? Initially I think curiosity was part of it, combined with the fact that they know memories don't ever really go away with hosts and appear really vividly to them, so any betrayal before now would've potentially led to her coming back aware of what's happened. They could have taken her to a programmer but from the outset Mauve has had secrets about them that could get both of them fired. It's a little bit of a stretch, but given she's potentially much stronger and smarter than both of them and this is completely uncharted territory, it's not too far fetched to think they'd be terrified of anyone finding out and not thinking clearly.
[close]

Possible clue about MiB = W.

Spoiler
Another clue pointing towards the Man in Black being William:

When the MiB and Teddy found the blonde lady host lying on the ground, he recognised her, and commented that he thought they had "retired her".

She was the host who met William when he first arrived at the park.
[close]

Spoiler
I didn't recognise her as the host that met William but she did walk past Dolores when she was watching Mauve and some others dance.
[close]

Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #383 on: November 22, 2016, 09:45:26 am »
Re Felix/Mauve:

Spoiler

I thought the fact that she referred to Felix's obnoxious mate as a '14' in the intelligence department meant that he was a host, as presumably Felix is - hence the instant healing thing - or would that work on humans too? If he's a 14, the notion of her, now a 20 or whatever the max is, means she was always going to outsmart them.

[close]
Could be totally wrong though.
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Offline Avens

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #384 on: November 22, 2016, 09:51:30 am »
Re Felix/Mauve:

Spoiler

I thought the fact that she referred to Felix's obnoxious mate as a '14' in the intelligence department meant that he was a host, as presumably Felix is - hence the instant healing thing - or would that work on humans too? If he's a 14, the notion of her, now a 20 or whatever the max is, means she was always going to outsmart them.

[close]
Could be totally wrong though.

Spoiler
I'm sure she was saying even when she herself was only a 14 Sylvester wasn't a match for her. Let alone now that she's maxed out. That's how I took it.
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Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #385 on: November 22, 2016, 09:53:17 am »
Spoiler
I'm sure she was saying even when she herself was only a 14 Sylvester wasn't a match for her. Let alone now that she's maxed out. That's how I took it.
[close]

Spoiler
Ah, OK. I perhaps misheard that one ;D
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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #386 on: November 22, 2016, 10:01:49 am »
Spoiler
Ah, OK. I perhaps misheard that one ;D
[close]

Spoiler
I still don't get Felix's motivations though. I suppose he might be curious but this is going a tad far. When they could have the host decommissioned and problem solved. It's the one storyline that's annoying me a little. The rest of it, I'm happy with the things I don't understand.
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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #387 on: November 22, 2016, 10:14:58 am »
Spoiler
I still don't get Felix's motivations though. I suppose he might be curious but this is going a tad far. When they could have the host decommissioned and problem solved. It's the one storyline that's annoying me a little. The rest of it, I'm happy with the things I don't understand.
[close]

Spoiler
Mauve knows that he was reprogramming a bird in his downtime right? It feels insignificant now but when all of this first started it was enough to get him fired. There's no way the programmers would have decommissioned Mauve without first interacting with her to see what's wrong, during which time she could have told them all about the bird.
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Offline Mr Mingebag Squid

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #388 on: November 22, 2016, 12:26:11 pm »
A little bit disappointed with that episode.

You're disappointed with everything to be fair.
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Offline Salger

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #389 on: November 22, 2016, 01:41:22 pm »
Possible clue about MiB = W.

Spoiler
Another clue pointing towards the Man in Black being William:

When the MiB and Teddy found the blonde lady host lying on the ground, he recognised her, and commented that he thought they had "retired her".

She was the host who met William when he first arrived at the park.
[close]

Another clue about the MiB from Episode 8 -

Spoiler
The MiB says that the park 'reveals one's true self', which is something William has said in a previous episode.
[close]
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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #390 on: November 22, 2016, 03:05:11 pm »
I reckon the MiB is Logan
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Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #391 on: November 22, 2016, 03:09:40 pm »
I reckon the MiB is Logan
he's got the dress code down
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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #392 on: November 22, 2016, 03:15:40 pm »
I think the mib being Logan would be too obvious, he starts off as a heartless twat from the earlier timeline. (Although I can see myself fucking multiple brasses and drinking/shooting anything for the most part too)
William evolving from the nice guy into a heartless cnut over the years is a  much better fit imo.
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Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #393 on: November 22, 2016, 03:26:04 pm »
And I don't think Logan has the veneer of a nice guy in the real world.

Here is where I'm confused

Spoiler
Williams and Delores show up to the town and it's long-buried, suggesting that that timeline, has years and years before it and years after it if  MiB is William. So this place has been around for exactly how long?
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Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #394 on: November 22, 2016, 03:36:58 pm »
And I don't think Logan has the veneer of a nice guy in the real world.

Here is where I'm confused

Spoiler
Williams and Delores show up to the town and it's long-buried, suggesting that that timeline, has years and years before it and years after it if  MiB is William. So this place has been around for exactly how long?
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Spoiler
park has been open over thirty years and was in testing mode before that for at least a couple (during which Arnold died)
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get thee to the library before the c*nts close it down

we are a bunch of twats commenting on a website.

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #395 on: November 22, 2016, 03:45:38 pm »
Enjoying this. Grown on me. Last two episodes in particular.

Offline saoirse08

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #396 on: November 22, 2016, 04:09:11 pm »
"Show, don't tell," as the Delos woman says to the head writer in Westworld. Well, so far anyway, that was the only episode in the series which has overdone the narrative exposition at the expense of showing. Strength of the series, thus far, has been its ability to show us several narrative strands without explicitly telling us how they are linked. We still don't know entirely...Still enjoyed it, but previous 2/3 episodes had been absolutely enthralling, I thought.
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Offline Gili Gulu

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #397 on: November 22, 2016, 04:40:36 pm »
And I don't think Logan has the veneer of a nice guy in the real world.

Here is where I'm confused

Spoiler
Williams and Delores show up to the town and it's long-buried, suggesting that that timeline, has years and years before it and years after it if  MiB is William. So this place has been around for exactly how long?
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Spoiler
The tech guy explained to Maeve that human's memories are fuzzy, but hosts memories are perfect to the point that it's like they are reliving them. Dolores is re-taking the same journey she made 30 years previously with William, so sometimes she's in the present, and sometimes she's re-living her memory of being with William in the past, and there also seems to be a third even earlier timeline where the town is just built and they are training the hosts.
 
That's why she sees the town as it was, and also with everything gone except for the church steeple.
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« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 04:43:40 pm by leftfooter »
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Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #398 on: November 22, 2016, 04:45:55 pm »
Spoiler
The tech guy explained to Maeve that human's memories are fuzzy, but hosts memories are perfect to the point that it's like they are reliving them. Dolores is re-taking the same journey she made 30 years previously with William, so sometimes she's in the present, and sometimes she's re-living her memory of being with William in the past, and there also seems to be a third even earlier timeline where the town is just built and they are training the hosts.
 
That's why she sees the town as it was, and also with everything gone except for the church steeple.
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Spoiler
Yep, makes sense. I think my head was still stuck in the two-timer theory, and it's actually three-timer. or more.
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Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Westworld - HBO's next thingamajig
« Reply #399 on: November 22, 2016, 06:02:17 pm »
Seen the first 7 so far and im really enjoying it.