Topic: Jon Flanagan

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

Yeah if it turns out he's innocent and it's a case of mistaken identity then I'll hold my hands up but I just found it funny that the first thing that'd someone would put when one of our players is a arrested and charged with assault is 'he's not been convicted yet'.

He's been charged with common assault? So it's a police charging decision and unless it's domestic wouldn't have gone to the CPS. If there was no evidence mate he wouldn't have been charged, he'd of been interviewed and had his say. Hes just been a bit of a melon, won't be the last

[Tesco tearaway]

Yeah if it turns out he's innocent and it's a case of mistaken identity then I'll hold my hands up but I just found it funny that the first thing that'd someone would put when one of our players is a arrested and charged with assault is 'he's not been convicted yet'.

Why wouldn't a Liverpool supporter defend a Liverpool player?
It's only the same as when Gerrard got arrested isn't it?

[gazzalfc]

He was only kept in the summer due to Clynes injury and uncertainty over TAA and Gomez ability in the 1st team

Now we're into conversations over if Clyne gets back in the 1st team when fit. So he's 4th choice.

Even before his stupidity of getting arrested he was struggling on loan at Burnley and featuring in the U23's occasionally.

Regardless of any form of justice, Klopp wont want to touch him now. Cancel his contract if convicted or move him on ASAP so he can rebuild his career

[rob1966]

He's only accused of assault, he hasn't been convicted.

According to reports, it's common assault he's been charged with and there is no mention of a battery charge, so from reading the stuff below, it is only the threat of violence thats involved.

An assault takes place when the Defendant causes the victim to apprehend the use of immediate, unlawful physical violence upon them. In a common assault charge, no physical violence needs to follow the threat; just the fear experienced by the victim is inclusive of this charge. If physical violence does occur immediately after an assault, the Defendant will also be charged with a battery offence.
The Mens Rea (guilty mind) of a common assault is that the Defendant either intentionally or recklessly causes the victim to fear some degree of contact or violence. In the case R v. Ireland it was determined that a common assault can occur without verbal warning or action. Several silent phone calls made to the victim, which caused them to fear violence in the immediate future, constituted an assault offence.

http://www.grayandcosolicitors.co.uk/section-39-common-assault/

[stoz]

Did all the do-gooders want Gerrard shipped out of the club in December 2008?

[nick_8589]

Did all the do-gooders want Gerrard shipped out of the club in December 2008?

“Do-gooders” as in people who don’t like criminal behaviour, good god, Gerrard was given leeway maybe he should maybe he shouldn’t but if he’d been found guilty I for one would have hoped the would have been sacked regardless, now Flanagan isn’t Gerard and we aren’t on a title run and he’s not even getting games  so there’s little reward for the club sticking their neck on the line for him, as far as I’m concerned he’s potentially damaged his and the clubs reputation by behaving like a little scally, he should know better, I’d imagine he’d probably be on his way in any event and that his contract features some sort of criminal behaviour clause so he isn’t owed any money to cancel his contract, it’s pretty much a no brainier for the club, you have a potential liability who’s not a key player and isn’t likely to be getting game time anyway so just get rid.

[Pistolero]

“Do-gooders” as in people who don’t like criminal behaviour, good god, Gerrard was given leeway maybe he should maybe he shouldn’t but if he’d been found guilty I for one would have hoped the would have been sacked regardless, now Flanagan isn’t Gerard and we aren’t on a title run and he’s not even getting games  so there’s little reward for the club sticking their neck on the line for him, as far as I’m concerned he’s potentially damaged his and the clubs reputation by behaving like a little scally, he should know better, I’d imagine he’d probably be on his way in any event and that his contract features some sort of criminal behaviour clause so he isn’t owed any money to cancel his contract, it’s pretty much a no brainier for the club, you have a potential liability who’s not a key player and isn’t likely to be getting game time anyway so just get rid.

  ....internet forums and sanctimonious bollocks eh....perfect bedfellows

[stoz]

“Do-gooders” as in people who don’t like criminal behaviour, good god, Gerrard was given leeway maybe he should maybe he shouldn’t but if he’d been found guilty I for one would have hoped the would have been sacked regardless, now Flanagan isn’t Gerard and we aren’t on a title run and he’s not even getting games  so there’s little reward for the club sticking their neck on the line for him, as far as I’m concerned he’s potentially damaged his and the clubs reputation by behaving like a little scally, he should know better, I’d imagine he’d probably be on his way in any event and that his contract features some sort of criminal behaviour clause so he isn’t owed any money to cancel his contract, it’s pretty much a no brainier for the club, you have a potential liability who’s not a key player and isn’t likely to be getting game time anyway so just get rid.

Must be hard for you watching the current side then, when Firmino plays.

And also watching some of the DVD's of some.of the great European and FA Cup finals

[nick_8589]

Must be hard for you watching the current side then, when Firmino plays.

And also watching some of the DVD's of some.of the great European and FA Cup finals

Well quite, Is it really that controversial to think less of people who break the law, as I said Gerrard was good enough to stick by (plus not guilty), I can understand that decision, I can see what the club gets out of it, ditto everyone else, Flanagan is not, hes probably going anyway, he’s just given us an excuse to cut our ties with no cost.

[Alf]

Innocent until proven guilty.

[BigTroubleInLittleChina]

“Do-gooders” as in people who don’t like criminal behaviour, good god, Gerrard was given leeway maybe he should maybe he shouldn’t but if he’d been found guilty I for one would have hoped the would have been sacked regardless, now Flanagan isn’t Gerard and we aren’t on a title run and he’s not even getting games  so there’s little reward for the club sticking their neck on the line for him, as far as I’m concerned he’s potentially damaged his and the clubs reputation by behaving like a little scally, he should know better, I’d imagine he’d probably be on his way in any event and that his contract features some sort of criminal behaviour clause so he isn’t owed any money to cancel his contract, it’s pretty much a no brainier for the club, you have a potential liability who’s not a key player and isn’t likely to be getting game time anyway so just get rid.

Well arent you a loyal supporter. He could have kicket someones leg, or just pushed somebody. Luis bit two people for fuck sake.. He’s in His twenties and was probably provoked. Didnt Sterling punch a girl or donethibg, and now hes Englands new hope...

[Johnnyboy1973]

Is it really that controversial to think less of people who break the law

It smacks of snobbery (some might think that controversial) to think you're better than someone who was culpable of speeding, pushing someone over etc.

[Tjfruits]

Loved flanno, what a man. This is deffinetley it for him though, hopefully he can carve out a career

[BarryCrocker]

Announce Flanagan's prison sentence.

A 5 year contract at Everton.

[nick_8589]

Well arent you a loyal supporter. He could have kicket someones leg, or just pushed somebody. Luis bit two people for fuck sake.. He’s in His twenties and was probably provoked. Didnt Sterling punch a girl or donethibg, and now hes Englands new hope...

You’re presuming that I don’t know what’s happened, don’t make that presumption.

Look have I said he’s reprehensible, have I said he should have the book thrown at him, no, I’ve said he’s been stupid and he could make the club look bad and as he’s not producing on the pitch, the club wouldn’t be getting anything in return for looking bad, so he should be let go.

I support Liverpool FC, I’ve long given up the notion of supporting players, who let’s be honest would ditch us in a heartbeat if the offer was good enough, so for me the club comes first not the players.

[nick_8589]

It smacks of snobbery (some might think that controversial) to think you're better than someone who was culpable of speeding, pushing someone over etc.

See it’s easy to say that, when you don’t have to deal with the fallout of people “just speeding” it’s a great laugh trying to get bits of people off the road, I don’t think I’m better than anyone, I just find it hard to be flippant about these things, sorry about that, but it’s a consequence of what I do for a living.

[MPowerYNWA]

“Do-gooders” as in people who don’t like criminal behaviour, good god, Gerrard was given leeway maybe he should maybe he shouldn’t but if he’d been found guilty I for one would have hoped the would have been sacked regardless, now Flanagan isn’t Gerard and we aren’t on a title run and he’s not even getting games  so there’s little reward for the club sticking their neck on the line for him, as far as I’m concerned he’s potentially damaged his and the clubs reputation by behaving like a little scally, he should know better, I’d imagine he’d probably be on his way in any event and that his contract features some sort of criminal behaviour clause so he isn’t owed any money to cancel his contract, it’s pretty much a no brainier for the club, you have a potential liability who’s not a key player and isn’t likely to be getting game time anyway so just get rid.

I bit of fisty cuffs when being provoked and knowing that person is a high profile target, is not really cause to end someone's career is it? People do make mistakes. Let's keep the lynch mobs for the more serious offenders shall we?

[BigTroubleInLittleChina]

You’re presuming that I don’t know what’s happened, don’t make that presumption.

Look have I said he’s reprehensible, have I said he should have the book thrown at him, no, I’ve said he’s been stupid and he could make the club look bad and as he’s not producing on the pitch, the club wouldn’t be getting anything in return for looking bad, so he should be let go.

I support Liverpool FC, I’ve long given up the notion of supporting players, who let’s be honest would ditch us in a heartbeat if the offer was good enough, so for me the club comes first not the players.

Well, if its as serious as you implicate, then kull him with fire. Hazard kicked a child, Stevie G GOT HIS goons to beat up a dj.. If this isnt a Chad Evans thing there is no reason he cant come back. Just my opinion, but i live in norway so it doesn’t really matter. I just Loke The guy...

[nick_8589]

Well, if its as serious as you implicate, then kull him with fire. Hazard kicked a child, Stevie G GOT HIS goons to beat up a dj.. If this isnt a Chad Evans thing there is no reason he cant come back. Just my opinion, but i live in norway so it doesn’t really matter. I just Loke The guy...

I’ve never said he shouldn’t have a career or that it was in anyway serious, what I’m saying is that he’s been silly and he’s not enough of an asset to the club, to justify keeping him for me. He probably should be a division  lower anyway if we’re being honest, all discussions about non football things aside.

[kennedy81]

A 5 year contract at Everton.

Steady on, no need to go medieval on him.

[nick_8589]

I bit of fisty cuffs when being provoked and knowing that person is a high profile target, is not really cause to end someone's career is it? People do make mistakes. Let's keep the lynch mobs for the more serious offenders shall we?

Sorry but if you’re talking about the Gerrard stuff, he was charged with affray wasn’t he that’s not a minor offence, like I said he was not guilty so it’s mute, you’d be looking at time for that normally if indicted but that’s a separate debate.

[Johnnyboy1973]

See it’s easy to say that, when you don’t have to deal with the fallout of people “just speeding” it’s a great laugh trying to get bits of people off the road

At no point have I suggested it is. I'm not underplaying the offence. Furthermore, if you're talking about getting bits of people of the road, then as you know, the offence wouldn't simply be speeding, would it.

I don’t think I’m better than anyone

When I read this, it sounds like you do.

Is it really that controversial to think less of people who break the law

It sounds like you think you're better than law breakers because you don't or maybe, like many in society; do but just haven't been caught - on those occasions or that one occasion.

Maybe you mean it in terms of disappointment in law breakers or that the thought is fleeting?

[Johnnyboy1973]

what I’m saying is that he’s been silly and he’s not enough of an asset to the club, to justify keeping him for me.

So, what you're saying is, is that if he was a star and had been silly, then we should take a different approach. But, cos he's been silly and isn't all that, then we should bin him.

The biggest disappointment is that you work in the criminal justice system, you may even be a police officer and see absolutely nothing wrong in the inequality of action to take, that you are suggesting.

[SteveLFC]

Whether he is innocent or not is irrelevant to me, the courts will work that out. The thing that bothers me is that considering he isn't getting anywhere close to the first team at the moment he should be busting a gut to keep his head down and working 10 times as hard in training to get into the match day squad.

As soon as shit like this happens you know his head isn't focused on where it should be.

[joekim87]

How badly did he 'assault' someone? Was it a punch in the face or did he stomp a guy's face into a curb?

Everyone makes mistakes. I hope he learns from his and has a successful professional career. Seems like a good kid.

[Samie]

He's like our 4th choice Right Back now and struggled out on loan to Florence and elsewhere. And with that coupled with this event, his times up at LFC.

[newterp]

This thread is so circular in logic and illogic

[nick_8589]

So, what you're saying is, is that if he was a star and had been silly, then we should take a different approach. But, cos he's been silly and isn't all that, then we should bin him.

The biggest disappointment is that you work in the criminal justice system, you may even be a police officer and see absolutely nothing wrong in the inequality of action to take, that you are suggesting.

What I’m saying is the damage of the LFC brand isn’t offset by his contributions on the pitch, therefore there’s no justification for keeping him, it’s not fair you’re right but that’s business, if it we’re salah it wouldn’t be a debate.

I don’t know why you want to link LFC with the criminal justice system but they aren’t the same, football is a meritocracy, you have to earn your place and keep earning it, the right to equality under law is the same for everyone no one (should anyway) have to earn it.

[Scaryscouse]

That probably is the end of him with us. Had high hopes for him, hope he goes on to forge out a decent career.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

What's he accused of then?, chinning someone?

[nick_8589]

What's he accused of then?, chinning someone?

It’s sec39 common assault that he’s been charged with.

Common Assault, contrary to section 39 Criminal Justice Act 1988
An offence of Common Assault is committed when a person either assaults another person or commits a battery.

An assault is committed when a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend the immediate infliction of unlawful force.

A battery is committed when a person intentionally and recklessly applies unlawful force to another.

It is a summary offence, which carries a maximum penalty of six months' imprisonment and/or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum. However, if the requirements of section 40 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 are met, then Common Assault can be included as a count on an indictment. Refer to Summary offences and the Crown Court (Criminal Justice Act 1988 sections 40 and 41; Crime and Disorder Act 1998 section 51 and Sch.3 para.6, elsewhere in this guidance).

[cipher]

Feel bad for Flanagan, but realistically he wasn't getting near our first team unless we lost 3-4 wing backs.  Nowhere near good enough.  Whether it's this summer or next, he'll be moving on to play for another team.

[G Richards]

If someone has had a pop and he has stuck up for himself, I’ve no problem with that. As a player he’s not of the standard we need at LFC but he is good enough to make a good living in the game slightly lower down.

Good luck Flanno!

[Beninger]

Innocent until proven guilty.

[CraigDS]

Any truth in the rumours he's the face of the Florence mafia in Liverpool since spending time there on loan?

[Millie]

Hope some of you lot don't ever do Jury Service!

Innocent til proven guilty for fucks sake.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Sorry but if you’re talking about the Gerrard stuff, he was charged with affray wasn’t he that’s not a minor offence, like I said he was not guilty so it’s mute, you’d be looking at time for that normally if indicted but that’s a separate debate.

He was only not guilty after a court case. It would be good if you allowed that to happen for Flanagan as well.

There are dozens of sportsman over the last decade who have been charged with something only for those charges to be later dropped or for a court to rule in their favour. You can’t just hound someone out of the club before a verdict is reached.

[redtel]

Hope some of you lot don't ever do Jury Service!

Innocent til proven guilty for fucks sake.

Yep.

The presumption of innocence is an important part of our criminal law system. Basically it means that if you are accused of a crime, you don't have to prove you are innocent. Instead, it is the job of the prosecutor to prove you are guilty.

[Purple Red]

As has already been said, innocent until proven guilty. No point making snap judgements until the full facts of the case become clear.

[Dim Glas]

A 5 year contract at Everton.

well that's just cruel