Author Topic: A change in Venezuela?  (Read 59171 times)

Offline JongWK

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A change in Venezuela?
« on: December 8, 2015, 03:44:05 pm »
If you haven't been watching the news from Venezuela lately, the opposition won a landslide victory on Sunday's parliamentary elections. It has, at the very least, secured 113 of the 167 seats in the unicameral Assembly, which would allow it to pass laws and override a presidential veto, censure ministers, and (crucially) change the constitution or replace both the electoral commission and the supreme court.

I can't see a sudden end to all the social policies implemented by Chavez, though. Removing them at once would be too traumatic for a country on the brink of complete and utter bankruptcy. That said, they do need to address the oil subsidies and food shortages.  It's a given that there will be a wide amnesty for current political prisoners. There might be a recall referendum against Maduro next year.

Is this the end for Maduro and Cabello? Or will they fight back from the corner they painted themselves into? Do you think there will be a power struggle within the ruling party?
 
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #1 on: December 8, 2015, 05:25:45 pm »
Have to say I find the resurgence of the Right, in Venezuela but also elsewhere, thoroughly depressing.

Le Pen and her followers are reaping rewards for the cumulative effects of Charlie Hebdo and the latest Paris atrocities, Trump seems to speak for an ever-increasing number of U.S nut-jobs with every ott outburst and even in advanced and enlightened democracies (in Scandinavia for example) the rise of homophobia, xenophobia and right-wing rhetoric is seemingly on the increase.
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Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #2 on: December 8, 2015, 06:49:16 pm »
Its amazing how the Saudi's dropping the price of oil can effect and radically alter the path countries take.

Offline Libertine

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #3 on: December 9, 2015, 02:10:14 pm »
Have to say I find the resurgence of the Right, in Venezuela but also elsewhere, thoroughly depressing.

Le Pen and her followers are reaping rewards for the cumulative effects of Charlie Hebdo and the latest Paris atrocities, Trump seems to speak for an ever-increasing number of U.S nut-jobs with every ott outburst and even in advanced and enlightened democracies (in Scandinavia for example) the rise of homophobia, xenophobia and right-wing rhetoric is seemingly on the increase.

You can't seriously compare the right in Venezuela with Le Pen, Trump et al? Chavez and his idiot successor have destroyed their country and economy - one of the resource richest countries in the region and they impoverished it through corruption and incompetence, not to mention dictatorial policies like locking up their political opponents. Don't be fooled by the socialist and revolutionary rhetoric - they've done nothing but hugely damage the image of left wing politics in the world.

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #4 on: December 9, 2015, 07:34:12 pm »
Me on Sunday when I heard the results:



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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #5 on: December 9, 2015, 07:55:58 pm »
Me on Sunday when I heard the results:





Elitist pig.

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #6 on: December 9, 2015, 10:34:00 pm »
Me on Sunday when I heard the results:





You deserve it!

I've no idea what the future holds, but it must be great to be rid of the old lot.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #7 on: December 9, 2015, 10:58:39 pm »
Very interesting times in Latin America. Kirchner and Maduro defeated in recent elections, Dilma facing a possibly illegal and domed to fail but still significant impeachment process.

I have no idea whether it's for the best, and my knowledge of individual countries is not great. But to see chavismo and peronismo defeated in the same year is fairly remarkable. And god only knows what will be of Brazil, with a possibly lame duck president teetering over fragmented legislative support and record low levels of popularity.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #8 on: December 9, 2015, 11:01:55 pm »
Socialism always fails. Why some people think that it will succeed in one country after it failed in so many others before I will never know.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #9 on: December 9, 2015, 11:34:03 pm »
Socialism always fails. Why some people think that it will succeed in one country after it failed in so many others before I will never know.

Shit socialism like shit capitalism will always fail. A balance of the two is needed to have a stable, strong economy which looks after all.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2015, 03:07:21 am »
Elitist pig.
;D and proud ;D

Joke aside, I believe in fairness, in people working for people and sharing the load in equal ways, in a government that protects people and that everyone has the same opportunities and it's up to them to take them or not, but Chavismo was, is and will be shit. What they ended up doing with Venezuela was a big shitty mess (and don't say it is Maduro's fault, because this started with Chavez), now we have the highest inflation in the world, rampant insecurity and shortage of every single basic supply that you can think of. I think I was lucky because I managed to get out of the country last January, to look for a better future somewhere else, with the help of my friends and working my arse off to change just enough money (that I am entitled to exchange but that doing so is one of the most annoying and bureaucratic thing you could ever do) and was definitely lucky where I am now. My whole family and most of my friends are still there, living day to day what I left almost a year ago, which already was a desperating situation that is now 10 times worse. When I think that I'm going to visit them for christmas and they tell me to bring them medication or food, it breaks my heart, this year people that I've known has been killed due to insecurity, and many other things have happened...

You have no idea how happy I am that the government doesn't have full power on something for once, I just hope the parliament manages to focus on trying to rebuild the country with the things they can do instead of going for vendettas, because then, this election would have been a big waste of time. I want my country to be back on their feet and hopefully return one day again, to work for my retirement plan, have a little bed a breakfast in a nice beach in the caribbean sea.

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Offline JongWK

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2015, 03:34:02 pm »
Government-run companies are firing their workers that voted for the opposition. Before the elections, bosses had ordered them to bring a cellphone picture of their ballot, to verify that they had voted for the government.
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Offline Packalacky

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2015, 08:31:53 am »
Good news everyone. The socialist paradise that is Venezuela has:

Venezuela frees Pepsi workers it arrested for not making enough Pepsi

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2015, 07:42:49 pm »
Like a broken alarm. Without fail...

Don't broken alarms fail?
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Offline zebenzui

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2015, 08:18:33 pm »
Don't broken alarms fail?

It certainly fails at one thing.

EDIT: Another thread on the Corbyn-lock chopping block. This one may not even break into a second page.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 08:26:26 pm by zebenzui »

Offline JongWK

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2015, 02:27:12 pm »
Of course Maduro's regime was not going to accept the results despite what it said...

Quote
Venezuela's Supreme Court has suspended the inauguration of three opposition MPs who were due to take office next week.

The move follows legal challenges by the governing socialist party of President Nicolas Maduro. The suspension removes the opposition coalition's super-majority which gave it extensive powers to challenge President Maduro. The opposition had called the challenge a "judicial coup".

The court approved injunctions against the election victories of three opposition MPs and one from the governing Socialist Party while it hears a legal challenge against them. The court also agreed to hear legal challenges to the election of another six opposition deputies but dismissed requests for similar injunctions. The court's website did not detail the arguments underlying the legal challenges by the governing Socialist Party.

As a result, four MPs are blocked from taking office when the new Congress opens on 5 January, while the other five will be allowed to take office while the court hears the legal challenge against them. A two-thirds majority gives the opposition key powers it would not have with fewer seats.
Among them is the power to remove Supreme Court judges, appoint key officials such as an independent attorney general, and passing constitutional amendments subject to ratification by referendum.

'Dysfunctional democracy'
The secretary-general of the opposition MUD coalition, Jesus Torrealba, earlier condemned the challenges to the results.
"You can't use legal tricks to steal something the voters didn't want to give you," he said.
"We're not living in a functional democracy," he added.
In an open letter to UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and senior international officials, he said: "The country, the region and the world are facing a judicial coup attempt against the Venezuelan people's decision as expressed at the ballot box.
"The ruling party's irresponsible behaviour is pushing the entire country to the brink of disaster, which would have grave consequences for the entire region."

Venezuelan Foreign Minister Delcy Rodriguez defended the legal challenges, saying: "We also have to be careful and vigilant over the law. These legal challenges are revealing that there were concrete irregularities which could have altered the results of (the elections). We are using legal means and we have not called for violence."

Even if the opposition were to lose the three seats, it will still hold a majority in the 165-seat National Assembly, which for the past 16 years has been dominated by the President Maduro's Socialist Party. Outgoing National Assembly president Diosdado Cabello called a number of extraordinary sessions last week at which 13 new Supreme Court judges and 21 substitute judges were named.

President Maduro has convened a meeting of socialist supporters for January to set the course for the "Bolivarian revolution", which his party advocates.
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Offline 24/7

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2015, 05:56:50 pm »
Just a word of warning here.

Anyone - and I mean ANYONE - deraiing this thread into yet another fuckawful tedious bitchfest about Corbyn will be looking at an extended holiday from the entire site, y'dig?


Views and opinions on Venezuelan policy by Venezuelan politicians and the effects of said policies on Venezuelan people are, of course, welcomed, especially (but of course not exclusively) by people from there, or close to people from there or from people who have been there.

I was there a couple of years ago and it was fuck-awful then. To be told it's 10 times worse now is just beyond capability to believe. Massive queues for even the basics, children dying from absence of basic medicines, people being shot at places of study, worship or even just on the streets, robberies on buses commonplace (having to take the absolute minimum cash needed out with you and even then splitting up between pockets, socks, whatever, taking all your jewellery off, no watch, the most basic mobile phone, photocopy of your passport, pretending to understand Spanish when your companion suddenly switches from English to local slang as code for shutthefuckuparoundheretheywillkillyou! - all very real, all very frightening, by the way)............these things shouldn't be happening in the country with the world's largest oil reserves.

Socialism? Venezuela? Hahahahaha :lmao

Maduro getting a right spanking in the elections is possibly (hopefully!) the best thing to happen to that country for a while but as has already been mentioned it's going to take a very long time to reverse the damage that Chavez & Maduro have inflicted.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 06:00:25 pm by 24/7 »
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2015, 06:00:17 pm »
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline 24/7

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2015, 06:01:09 pm »
Even if they DO say "Jehovah!"
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2015, 06:06:50 pm »
PS - drawing comparisons between opponents of Maduro with supporters of the likes of Le Pen is at best offensively naive and at worst a studied insult to the intelligence of people suffering desperately from rampant crime, institutionalised corruption and worse.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2015, 07:59:39 pm »
PPS - there was a post earlier about the solution to social housing (deleted by another mod - I was okay with the version that I edited, since it was at least on topic once the Corbyn stuff had been deleted).

I'll say this - I've seen the 'social housing' put up for the poor. It's.............poor! Cheapest quality, put up hurriedly, inadequate for the problems that exist!

Caracas has the largest slum in the whole of South America - putting up some cheap apartments isn't going to change that in a hurry, especially since many of those were put up to 'compensate' some people forcible removed from the path of a cable car. That's a great way, by the way, to get a really good close-up peek into how those slums are constructed. Just don't speak when on them. There's no fucking escape cos all the fucking stations are in the fucking slums in the fucking first place! What a spectacular waste of money - but it bought a few more votes for the Chavistas, eh? Gotta love that "third way"!
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Offline marko35s

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2015, 08:05:05 pm »
;D and proud ;D

Joke aside, I believe in fairness, in people working for people and sharing the load in equal ways, in a government that protects people and that everyone has the same opportunities and it's up to them to take them or not, but Chavismo was, is and will be shit. What they ended up doing with Venezuela was a big shitty mess (and don't say it is Maduro's fault, because this started with Chavez), now we have the highest inflation in the world, rampant insecurity and shortage of every single basic supply that you can think of. I think I was lucky because I managed to get out of the country last January, to look for a better future somewhere else, with the help of my friends and working my arse off to change just enough money (that I am entitled to exchange but that doing so is one of the most annoying and bureaucratic thing you could ever do) and was definitely lucky where I am now. My whole family and most of my friends are still there, living day to day what I left almost a year ago, which already was a desperating situation that is now 10 times worse. When I think that I'm going to visit them for christmas and they tell me to bring them medication or food, it breaks my heart, this year people that I've known has been killed due to insecurity, and many other things have happened...

You have no idea how happy I am that the government doesn't have full power on something for once, I just hope the parliament manages to focus on trying to rebuild the country with the things they can do instead of going for vendettas, because then, this election would have been a big waste of time. I want my country to be back on their feet and hopefully return one day again, to work for my retirement plan, have a little bed a breakfast in a nice beach in the caribbean sea.


Sounds like the direction South Africa is busy taking too.
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Offline Kochevnik

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #22 on: January 2, 2016, 03:18:07 am »
As a person from another country currently suffering through what South America terms "socialism" these days (Bolivia), Venezuela's election results give me hope.  No doubt there will be court challenges and stalling as the corrupt regime is removed from power, but it seems that the days of unchecked power for Chavez and then Maduro are finally over.  Thank goodness.

In my own country we have sort of been able to ameliorate the effects of the so-called socialists through constitutional challenges and a fairly broad grass roots movement in the eastern part of the country, though we are certainly suffering economically as a nation.  Oddly, I think that NOT having massive oil reserves like Venezuela has actually helped as everything Morales and MAS did was an immediate disaster rather than taking 10 years to manifest the way it did up there.  As a result we've sort of got a weird stalemate with the moment, with everything moving more towards the MAS but slowly enough that it's not brought us to the brink of starvation like it did for the poor Venezuelans.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #23 on: January 5, 2016, 06:59:43 pm »
Exciting times ahead, happy for you Kat.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2016, 04:18:39 pm »
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2016, 04:31:39 pm »
There was also this a few days ago - but I guess it doesn't attract as much attention as oil :wave

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-35564646

Venezuela opposition to speed up plans to oust Maduro

The new opposition-controlled National Assembly in Venezuela plans to speed up moves to oust the government of Nicolas Maduro as economic woes deepen.

Parliament speaker Henry Ramos Allup said proposals would be presented in a matter of days - rather than months.

A day earlier, President Maduro was given backing by the Supreme Court for a declaration of economic emergency, giving him greater powers.

Venezuela is facing a shortage of many staple goods and rampant inflation.

Its economy is heavily dependent on oil exports and has suffered substantially in the past year given the sharp fall in crude oil prices in international markets.

Energy rationing has been imposed, blamed by government ministers on critically low water levels caused by drought at 18 of the country's hydro-electric dams.

'No time to wait'

The National Assembly speaker and other opposition leaders had previously announced they planned to challenge Mr Maduro in six months' time.

But Mr Ramos now says the country cannot afford to wait.

"Nobody doubts now that that six-month timeframe is too long," he said.

"It is not we who impose the timing, it is the needs of the country."

"In the next few days we will have to present a concrete proposal for the departure of that national disgrace that is the government," he told a news conference.

A national food crisis was declared by the Venezuela's National Assembly on Thursday.

Venezuela has one of the highest inflation rates in the world, running at more than 140% in 2015.

Mr Ramos called on President Maduro to revoke the decree on emergency measures.

And he also attacked the Supreme Court over the decree, saying if what it "has done is not a coup, I don't know what to call it".

Most if not all Supreme Court judges have been appointed either by Mr Maduro or his predecessor, the late Hugo Chavez.

The court has not ruled against the government since Mr Chavez came to power in 1999.

Recall referendum.

Mr Maduro defended the court's ruling and said the measures were necessary to deal with the crisis.

"This decision was taken by the highest court of the country, in accordance with the constitution," said Mr Maduro.

His decree was issued on 14 January. It is valid for 60 days and it can be renewed by the president.

The government says businessmen linked to the opposition have been hiding basic staples such as flour, sugar and toilet paper as part of a strategy to undermine the economy and oust Mr Maduro's democratically elected government.

He was elected in April 2013 to a six-year term, replacing Mr Chavez, who died of cancer after 14 years in office.

The Venezuelan constitution says that a referendum to replace the president can be called any time after the first three years of his term, which will be in April 2016.

Four million signatures are needed to trigger a recall referendum.

The governing Socialist Party suffered a heavy defeat in December's legislative election. It lost control of the National Assembly for the first time in 16 years.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2016, 11:51:17 pm »
Slowly, surely this pathetic authoritarian experiment is coming to its tawdry end. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/18/venezuela-president-raises-fuel-price-by-1300-and-devalues-bolivar-to-tackle-crisis

Tackle crisis? he's basically throwing napalm on the fire. My heart fills up with sorrow and sadness when I think about how is this going to get better, if it's going to get better at all.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2016, 02:35:49 am »
http://www.theguardian.com/global/2016/may/18/venezuelans-on-food-shortages-economic-crisis-blighting-daily-lives-maduro

Venezuelans on the food and economic crisis blighting their daily lives

Food shortages and soaring black market prices are making life a misery for people across the country

The clubbing districts of Las Mercedes and San Ignacio in Caracas are as packed as ever, despite the economic crisis gripping Venezuela. But there is one notable difference: a lack of Polar beer. Empresas Polar SA, the country’s largest food and beverage company, has halted beer production because, it says in a statement on its website, it cannot obtain the foreign currency it needs to purchase malted barley.

“Nightlife still exists in the city because some people are going out of their way to find a distraction, an escape, from the usual drama the country finds itself involved in. Caracas is hectic, as always, but there is an air of dread pervading the city,” says Luis, a twentysomething programmer from Venezuela’s capital.

Closure of the country’s largest brewery is a tiny window into the deepening crises besetting the country, and an indication of the economic and political chaos gripping Venezuela.

“Everywhere I go, even in the better neighbourhoods of Caracas, nearly every single supermarket or grocery during the whole day, every single day, has hundreds of people in line waiting outside. It is simply impossible to obtain any products that have their price controlled by the government legally any more,” says Luis.

The president, Nicolás Maduro, declared a 60-day state of emergency on Friday, and has threatened to seize the closed factories to reverse the country’s economic woes. Empresas Polar SA’s owner, Lorenzo Mendoza, a fierce critic of Maduro and one of several business owners to cease production across the country, has blamed government mismanagement for the crisis.

According to Venezuelans who responded to a Guardian callout, the situation is worsening. They must choose between long queues in the searing heat to buy basic supplies, with the knowledge they may leave empty-handed, or turn to black market traders – known as bachaqueros – who sell basic products at eye-watering prices.

“We’re supposed to have access to basic foodstuffs on a particular day of the week, according to the final number of your ID card, but usually the products I need are not available,” says Cristina, a 60-year-old translator and conference producer from Caracas. “I have not been able to get milk, sugar or cornflour in about four or five months. Toilet paper is an issue, as well as soap and deodorant. I refuse to buy these products from the bachaqueros since I consider them crooks,” she says.

For those whose ID numbers fail to return supplies, their only option is to buy from the country’s illegal traders – who wait on the streets overnight to purchase goods as soon as stores open.

“There’s a woman who sells diapers at 11 times their value from 171 to 2,000 Venezuelan bolívars [£11-£139], and another that sells rice at almost three times its value,” says social media manager Andrea Ramírez, 24, from Caracas.

“Unless you stay overnight, praying the bachaqueros don’t cut the line with violent threats, you can’t find deodorant, shampoo, soap, flour, rice, pasta, margarine, milk, formulas for babies, diapers, oil, beans, sanitary pads, toilet paper, you name it. Conversation always circles around food; what people didn’t find and what they need. The only way to buy them is on the black market.”

Several hundred people looted a truck carrying kitchen rolls and shampoo after it crashed in Tachira state in western Venezuela on Thursday. In Mérida, a city in the Andes mountains of north-western Venezuela, looters stole chicken from a state-run supermarket on Wednesday and a day later, a group of hooded motorcyclists attempted to steal 650 sacks of flour as they were being delivered to a depot in the city.

Asdrúbal, a 25-year-old computer engineer who lives in Mérida, has seen the situation become increasingly militarised under the 60-day state of emergency.

“The most striking thing of this state of emergency is that you see the military patrolling the supermarkets all the time. I live in an area dominated by the Tupamaros, a paramilitary group that supports the government. It’s very distressing sometimes.

“The government-owned Mercal food store in my neighbourhood only sells food to those who are self-declared and proven Chavistas. This has made life very difficult for those who don’t agree with the government party,” he says.

Looting has been reported across the country. In the first four months of 2016, 107 episodes of looting, or attempted looting, were recorded.

“People are assaulting you over a bag of flour, punching each other in the queues and supermarkets, wreaking havoc. I live in Caracas but I don’t hang out because I would get murdered,” says Rey, an18-year-old student. “I don’t eat the same any more, in fact, I eat much less due to the lack of food, I’m allowed to buy one canilla [Venezuelan baguette] only, that’s my quota,” he says.


Food scarcity and empty cupboards in Venezuela - in pictures
 View gallery
Maduro has blamed the crisis on drops in global oil prices, a drought cutting the country’s main power source, and an economic war waged by rightwing opponents. The opposition says that the economic policies of Maduro and his predecessor, Hugo Chávez, are responsible.

“If I compare my situation with that of the majority of my fellow citizens I may feel privileged, but very far from the level of life I was used to, not that many years ago,” says Federico, a 55-year-old journalist, author and university professor from Caracas.

“I don’t eat bread any more, not even our national corn bread arepa. Supermarkets are dramatically empty, and you can see the long lines in front of them. And there’s never enough for everyone. Thousands of people only have time to provide for their homes. What about their jobs?” he says.

Under the country’s constitution a referendum can be called to remove a president from office once they have served half their term. Opponents claim 600,000 people have signed a petition calling for a referendum – more than triple the number needed to begin a recall. But the president, whose approval rating is low, has vowed to see out his term, due to end in 2019.

“After work I drive around to supermarkets to look for food every day. I try to buy for me and for my family, who live in the countryside where the situation is worse. I don’t have time to rest. I am really tired and angry,” says Isabel, 53, who works for a home supplies retailer.

“The state of emergency isn’t improving anything. It is not making us eat better. There is only the black market and it is too expensive … this economic model of regulations is only making us poor, without any groceries, and hungry,” she says.

 :'(
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2016, 09:18:04 am »
It's a bloody mess. Sorry Lady B.

You don't often hear these days from those over here, in the UK, who assured everyone that Venezuela was a model socialist democracy. I wonder who'll be blamed?
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2016, 02:26:12 pm »
What happened in Venezuela wasn't socialism, it never was. Chavez created nothing, build up nothing and destroyed everything. What Maduro is doing is finishing it off and stealing all the money left. Anyone who compares it with Democratic Socialism and the ideas behind it is completely wrong.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2016, 02:39:48 pm »
Not sure why my post was deleted, is there anything wrong with sharing an opinion on socialism as someone who actually experienced it rather than just talking about it?

On topic, Lady_brandybuck, I said the same, didn't I? Ideas are fine, from ideas to practice it always gets ugly and wrong though.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 02:41:26 pm by child-in-time »
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2016, 02:49:58 pm »
It's an interesting question, for sure. Not least because the current leaders of the Labour party - Corbyn, McDonnell, Milne and Abbott - were all on record praising Venezuela as a model of 21st century socialism or as representing a socialist alternative to neo-liberalism. John Pilger did that famous interview with Chavez in which he was virtually genuflecting before the great leader.

I'd like to know what they think of it all now.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2016, 03:01:18 pm »
Not sure why my post was deleted...
Cos you showed wilful repetition of a point already made and you also failed utterly to show any degree of empathy to a fellow red whose family is suffering very real hardships and dangers every day. Keep that up mate and you can have a Beatle Week off.

Oh and shanklygirl you can fuck right off with the snidy Chavezanistas [sic] remark too, as well as the smug hit-and-run tactic of posting a tweet pic and saying fuck all about it. For the record, I disagree strongly with Corbyn on his point and I doubt he has sufficient knowledge of the subject to make such a statement.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 03:02:59 pm by 24/7 »
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Offline Packalacky

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2016, 03:01:36 pm »
What happened in Venezuela wasn't socialism, it never was. Chavez created nothing, build up nothing and destroyed everything. What Maduro is doing is finishing it off and stealing all the money left. Anyone who compares it with Democratic Socialism and the ideas behind it is completely wrong.

That's interesting since it wasn't long ago that people on the far left were queuing up to set Venezuela as a socialist model to follow under Chavez. But now that it's gone tits up it's no longer a socialist country and never was.

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2016, 03:19:17 pm »
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/05/venezuela-is-falling-apart/481755/?utm_source=atltw

This is a terrific piece in the Atlantic Monthly. As always with a failing economy, a discredited ideology, and an autocratic state, the power on the street belongs to organised gangs linked to corrupt politicians. Those who have suffered most from this whole wretched experiment have been the poor.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2016, 03:23:37 pm »
Cos you showed wilful repetition of a point already made and you also failed utterly to show any degree of empathy to a fellow red whose family is suffering very real hardships and dangers every day. Keep that up mate and you can have a Beatle Week off.
But the point still stands though, doesnt it? The ruling socialist party is to blame for whats happening, whats wrong with saying it on a discussion board and/or associating it to the very same (repetitive over time, regardless of place, cultures, ethnics, races, etc) failures of this system in the past? When it was all good, they took the credit, didnt they?

Sorry, Lady_brandybuck, heres me hoping better times are ahead of you and your country.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2016, 01:41:13 pm »
Good stuff from Nick Cohen on why some sections of the western left fell in with the Chavez autocracy:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/22/radical-leftwing-tourists-pimps-dictatorship-hugo-chavez-venezuela-sex-tourism

......For their part, political tourists are stuck in a sexless marriage to a Britain that offers them no excitement. The proletariat has refused their entreaties to revolt. Their radical fantasies are never fulfilled. So they, too, scour the world. For years, the top radical tourist destination, the political equivalent of the Pattaya Beach brothel, has been Chavista Venezuela. Hollywood stars, the leaders of the British Labour party and Spanish “popular resistance”, and every half-baked pseudo-left intellectual from Noam Chomsky to John Pilger has engaged in a left orientalism as they wallowed in “the other’s” exotic delights......
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2016, 06:51:44 pm »
Good stuff from Nick Cohen on why some sections of the western left fell in with the Chavez autocracy:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/22/radical-leftwing-tourists-pimps-dictatorship-hugo-chavez-venezuela-sex-tourism

......For their part, political tourists are stuck in a sexless marriage to a Britain that offers them no excitement. The proletariat has refused their entreaties to revolt. Their radical fantasies are never fulfilled. So they, too, scour the world. For years, the top radical tourist destination, the political equivalent of the Pattaya Beach brothel, has been Chavista Venezuela. Hollywood stars, the leaders of the British Labour party and Spanish “popular resistance”, and every half-baked pseudo-left intellectual from Noam Chomsky to John Pilger has engaged in a left orientalism as they wallowed in “the other’s” exotic delights......


Powerful article that.  I suppose Venezuela is a bit of a niche topic for most people, but the support given to the regime by figures who would probably consider themselves 'progressives' should be of huge embarrassment to them now. 

Presumably as the result of some algorithm The Guardian use the article leads you to another by none other than Seumas Milne containing admiring gems about Venezuela having 'ejected western neoliberal orthodoxy, and challenged imperial domination'.  He goes on to write that Venezuela's, '...experiments in direct democracy and success in bringing resources under public control offer lessons to anyone interested in social justice and new forms of socialist politics in the rest of the world.'

Cohen must be hoping Milne doesn't come back to his old job anytime soon!

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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2016, 08:55:44 am »
...Cohen must be hoping Milne doesn't come back to his old job anytime soon!

All is not well at the Grauniad, hasn't been for some time if you follow Street of Shame in Private Eye.

Now I don't particularly like the Evening Standard, but it's free and so I picked up a copy last week when in London each evening to read on the Tube travelling back from work to the hotel.

It had an interesting piece here.

More damaging for Viner is her closeness to Seumas Milne, who she has allowed to go “on leave” as director of communications for Jeremy Corbyn. Rusbridger supporters imply that Milne could bring about a “Corbynisation” of the paper’s comment pages.

I've found that Newspapers comments on other newpapers are often the most honest reporting they ever do and since Rusbridger has severed all ties to the Grauniad now, what you say may well come to pass.
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Re: A change in Venezuela?
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2016, 08:47:39 am »
The Grauniad assured us that it would all be alright in 2013. Such astute political and economic commentary.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/07/venezuela-not-greece-latin-america-oil-poverty
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