Topic: NBA Discussion

[elsewhere]

just saw a replay and i wish i hadn't. definitely not for the squeamish.

Same here, my heart goes out to him. Poor guy, Cavs bench reaction tells everything you need to know.
Wish him a speedy revovery.

[Broad Spectrum]

Fuck that’s terrible just seen it, didn’t even realise when I checked the score this morning. He was going to be such an important player for them this season. Heard Brown and Tatum looked good anyway so they’ll need to step up now for sure.

Managed to get tickets for the Celtics game in London in January as well this morning, was looking forward to seeing Hayward in action.

[Yiannis]

Fucking hell. It's grim. Sorry to mention this now but is it season over for him?

[elsewhere]

Fucking hell. It's grim. Sorry to mention this now but is it season over for him?

fractured left ankle, broken tibia. I think it's a success if he comes back for the play-off's.

[Broad Spectrum]

fractured left ankle, broken tibia. I think it's a success if he comes back for the play-off's.

Yeah exactly. And even then, I doubt he’d get back into the team during the play-offs having not featured for 8/9 months. Poor guy really feel for him.

[elsewhere]

Yeah exactly. And even then, I doubt he’d get back into the team during the play-offs having not featured for 8/9 months. Poor guy really feel for him.

Yep, he is one of the most likeable guys in the league and has such a role model family too. Even if the healing process goes smooth, I don't think Celtics will rush him just for him to play in the conference finals (if they make it that far) because there is also mental healing process and he will get very limited minutes for a few months once he is ready. I hope his MRI results are better than expected and I am sure they will get a world class surgeon to repair his ankle and let's wish he is back as a similar type of player he was before the injury.

[elsewhere]

By the way, Skip Bayless is a total scumbag,  thanks to Demar Derozan for calling him out.

[RedSince86]

I cannot believe that Skip Bayliss gets $5 million a year for that shitty show on Fox that's been a total flop viewers wise.

The guy is a utter narcisstic tool.

[Clayton Bigsby]

He is sad pathetic man that Skip. Hatred for Lebron is unhealthy, and all because he is worried that Lebron will be seen as better than Jordan

[LiverLuke]

he's your classic "opinionated controversial" figure that will say anything to get attention.

[elsewhere]

he's your classic "opinionated controversial" figure that will say anything to get attention.

That's exactly what he is, an attention whore that will say any controversial thing to fill his pocket. I don't even think he believes what he says. Remember, Mark Cuban has come to First Take and put him in his place for not knowing basic basketball rules like zone defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9w_XUQyJJQ

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I don't take Skip seriously, he's the ultimate troll. I do enjoy the show, Shannon is hilarious and insightful depending on what topic.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

That's exactly what he is, an attention whore that will say any controversial thing to fill his pocket. I don't even think he believes what he says. Remember, Mark Cuban has come to First Take and put him in his place for not knowing basic basketball rules like zone defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9w_XUQyJJQ

there was a great one on first take years ago where Jalen rose called skip out on his high school record (2 points a game I think) skip cried like the bitch that he is and the next day Stephen A had a go at the pair of them, one of the best bits of first take (now far better with max kellerman)

I don't take Skip seriously, he's the ultimate troll. I do enjoy the show, Shannon is hilarious and insightful depending on what topic.

is that the show where if you invite a friend round to watch you double the viewers?

[ScottScott]

I'm gonna throw it out there - LeBron did it on purpose knowing Hayward would get hurt. Come at me

[pyroparty]

  At Kyrie trying to run an offence

[Garrus]

I'm gonna throw it out there - LeBron did it on purpose knowing Hayward would get hurt. Come at me

Hi Skip, welcome to RAWK.

[Yiannis]

Judging by the score, the defense in Pacers-Nets must have been ASG levels.

[Doc Red]

Hi Skip, welcome to RAWK.

Seconded. Welcome on board the RAWK train, Skip. You'll fit right in like a glove.

[Lastrador]

Jeremy Lin fucked his knee pretty bad it seems. Poor guy, can't catch a break.

[elsewhere]

With the pace of the game, nowadays we see too many season ending injuries. Jeremy Lin is also one of the nicest guys in the league. Too bad he won’t play rest of the season. By the way Celtics statement also says Hayward unlikely to be back in 2017-18 including the play-off’s.

[Shaved Crossbar]

At Kyrie trying to run an offence

You know I thought he looked decent against the Cavs. And then last night was a nightmare.

It's funny how quickly people just decide to blindly believe in narratives like 'budding superstar' and 'held back by LeBron' when in reality, without LeBron (both pre-return and when he sat), the Cavs were awful under Kyrie's guidance. He'll get better and so will his ball movement but the Celtics are really gonna struggle this year. There is definitely a world in which they don't make the top 6 and struggle for the playoffs, how many top seeds do you know that turned over all but 5 players and have a first and second year player starting? 538 has them projected at 37 wins without Hayward. Jaylen and Tatum have big shoes to fill and while they'll probably both have good seasons, it's just another flaw for a Celtics team that lost everything that was good about it last year. Long term they'll still probably be great but this year there's gonna be a lot of pain in store for anybody that expected them to challenge the Cavs. Early hot take prediction: knocked out in the first round by the Bucks or Raptors.

[pyroparty]

You know I thought he looked decent against the Cavs. And then last night was a nightmare.

It's funny how quickly people just decide to blindly believe in narratives like 'budding superstar' and 'held back by LeBron' when in reality, without LeBron (both pre-return and when he sat), the Cavs were awful under Kyrie's guidance. He'll get better and so will his ball movement but the Celtics are really gonna struggle this year. There is definitely a world in which they don't make the top 6 and struggle for the playoffs, how many top seeds do you know that turned over all but 5 players and have a first and second year player starting? 538 has them projected at 37 wins without Hayward. Jaylen and Tatum have big shoes to fill and while they'll probably both have good seasons, it's just another flaw for a Celtics team that lost everything that was good about it last year. Long term they'll still probably be great but this year there's gonna be a lot of pain in store for anybody that expected them to challenge the Cavs. Early hot take prediction: knocked out in the first round by the Bucks or Raptors.

Yep, it was weird. The narrative should have been woah, woah what the fuck are you doing, you are a great sidekick not a leader instead he seems to have had a load of smoke blown up his arse that the nasty superstar is holding him back. Like you mention pre LeBron the Cavs sucked and Kyrie + the second unit in recent years, dear god, was bad, really bad. He's great to watch when on it, I'd back him to knock one down with 10seconds left in a close game and he'll no doubt have plenty of nights where he lights it up but he's never in a million years a leader of a team, a great playmaker nor capable of dragging a team finals, championships etc. Put him on last years Thunder for example and I reckon they have a losing record and get nowhere near the play offs instead of what Russ did.

Speaking of OKC, looking forward to tonight! Russ has some help again!

[Buggy Eyes Alfredo]

Remember, Mark Cuban has come to First Take and put him in his place for not knowing basic basketball rules like zone defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9w_XUQyJJQ

For anybody who has seen not seen his recent interview with Snoop.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/geisAnF6w9A" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/geisAnF6w9A</a>

I am secure admitting to the fact that I am a fanboy.

[elsewhere]

For anybody who has seen not seen his recent interview with Snoop.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/geisAnF6w9A" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/geisAnF6w9A</a>

I am secure admitting to the fact that I am a fanboy.

He has been active against Trump and there has been serious talks about him potentially running for the president. My vote is for him if Dirk is his vice president

[Shaved Crossbar]

Speaking of OKC, looking forward to tonight! Russ has some help again!

This is his chance to show he's not selfish and boneheaded. It's a criticism that's plagued him ever since the early years with Durant and their playoff failures (where injuries and youth combined to deny them success, as much as more than any failings of Westbrook). Now he's got his version of Wade and Bosh, and they really could be special enough to at least contend with the Warriors. I think people are sleeping on them. Went into more detail earlier but they literally just have to play as they did last season, ie Westbrook everything, and they could out-do (last season's version) of Houston. If they actually gel properly and Russ shares the ball in a well coached scheme then things could get very interesting.

LMAM, Tucker and Ariza is an enviable arsenal of wings for Houston and Eric Gordon is playing like a guy that wants to start. Their win over the Warriors despite CP3's injury and acclimatisation failure, AND the Warriors going shit-hot from 3, was super impressive. I know people talk about them having a puncher's chance but it really could be as much as 30-40% imo.

[mallin9]

You know I thought he looked decent against the Cavs. And then last night was a nightmare.

It's funny how quickly people just decide to blindly believe in narratives like 'budding superstar' and 'held back by LeBron' when in reality, without LeBron (both pre-return and when he sat), the Cavs were awful under Kyrie's guidance. He'll get better and so will his ball movement but the Celtics are really gonna struggle this year. There is definitely a world in which they don't make the top 6 and struggle for the playoffs, how many top seeds do you know that turned over all but 5 players and have a first and second year player starting? 538 has them projected at 37 wins without Hayward. Jaylen and Tatum have big shoes to fill and while they'll probably both have good seasons, it's just another flaw for a Celtics team that lost everything that was good about it last year. Long term they'll still probably be great but this year there's gonna be a lot of pain in store for anybody that expected them to challenge the Cavs. Early hot take prediction: knocked out in the first round by the Bucks or Raptors.

Your points are well made, they're valid, and I'm a turrrrrible gambler, but I think you're wrong and the Cs will evolve and adapt quickly as the season progresses. 50+ wins. I trust Brad Stevens like I do Klopp

[deFacto please, you bastards]

OKC have no bench whatsoever, one player on their bench has scored, and he has 4 points!

[Anywhichwayicant]

There's something special about that Markkanen for the Bulls. Raw, but hugely, hugely talented.

I'll be keeping an eye on him.

[Fiasco]

There's something special about that Markkanen for the Bulls. Raw, but hugely, hugely talented.

I'll be keeping an eye on him.

Isn't he supposed to be a lights out shooter for a 7 footer?



Looking forward to seeing how Lonzo Ball gets on now on his debut.

[Shaved Crossbar]

Your points are well made, they're valid, and I'm a turrrrrible gambler, but I think you're wrong and the Cs will evolve and adapt quickly as the season progresses. 50+ wins. I trust Brad Stevens like I do Klopp

I think Stevens is great but he just doesn't have the tools at his disposal now. Guys who played above 10 minutes last season, in order, vs this season's roster:

Historically good Isaiah > Kyrie = at best a wash, likely a downgrade
All-D candidate Avery > sophomore Jaylen = (huge?) downgrade
40% 3 shooter and plus defender Crowder > rookie Tatum = huge downgrade
Horford > Horford = a wash or downgrade
Smart > Smart = improvement?
Kelly Olynyk > Aron Baynes = not seen AB so can't comment
Amir Johnson > Marcus Morris = imo downgrade, others would say a wash
Jaylen rookie > Abdel Nader rookie = downgrade
Rozier, Jerebko, Green and Zeller > Rozier and rookies = downgrade

On a pure player for player basis they've definitely gotten worse. Then you factor in continuity; the Celtics roster last season was shaped around the previous season's team; from 15/16 they only lost 2 of the top 8 players by minutes (and that was Sullinger+Turner becoming Horford and Jaylen). This year they've lost their top 3 players by minutes, and 5 of the top 7, as well as Jerebko, Green and Zeller who've been giving them solid minutes for years. Teams with good ball movement don't come together overnight, young teams don't win much anyway.

[Shaved Crossbar]

Looking forward to seeing how Lonzo Ball gets on now on his debut.

I love Beverley.

[Gerry Attrick]

I'd expect Boston to give up a ton of points this season. Crowder and Bradley are huge losses.

[Gerry Attrick]

As for the Raps, nice start. We got a win without DeRozan and Lowry doing the heavy lifting. Depth is definitely a concern but we should still be good for a top 6 spot in the East.

[mallin9]

Shaved C- All good points about the Cs and I find myself nodding and doubting my prediction, with the exception of the Canadian Sensation and FAMOUS DIRTY PLAYER (still, still, still this blows my mind, that Kelly O was The Guy called out) Kelly Olynyk being better than Baynes.  Kelly has some talent but also loves a brain fart and had the killer instinct of a teletubby.  How often would the ball end up in his hands after textbook rotation.....and he'd freeze rather than chuck?  Or take a dribble into a far worse shot?  Olynyk probably had an outrageously good sense of humor (...he IS Canadian) but I think Baynes, while not a world beater, is a huge upgrade.

That Cs team last year was so much fun, but so soft around the rim at times.  I didn't grasp just how much they shook up the roster, to your points, probably too much!  But I never believed that team last year could do big things.

[elsewhere]

On the other hand, now that Lin is out as well, the pick Cavs got from Celtics more even more valuable.

Knicks looked terrible as expected but being primary option can actually help Porzingis' growth. He is nevertheless an All Star this season imo.

[Broad Spectrum]

Think you’ve forgotten about Olynyk’s 26 points against the Wizards in the play-offs! They’ll miss Crowder on the defence as well, it was hardly a strength of theirs last season, as Horford isn’t exactly the most imposing centre as he struggles to defend the rim. Shame Hayward is out as well, no doubt he would have helped there massively. And they’ll also miss Johnson, despite his limited minutes, he was a good defensive sub. Saying that, thank god they kept Smart weren’t they considering throwing him into the Thomas deal?

Either way, they’ll do well to stop Embiid & Simmons tonight.

[Shaved Crossbar]

Either way, they’ll do well to stop Embiid & Simmons tonight.

Philly are actually favourites by the bookies.

[elsewhere]

Rough loss’s that for Lakers, looked terrible and the shooting at times was awful. No energy or passion and Lakers just flat out terrible on offense & defense. Luke Walton needs to be more aggressive. He’s pussifying this Lakers team. Losing by 16 to the Clippers is embarrassing. But yes I know it’s work in progress.

I am afraid Lonzo Ball won't live up to expectations just like Russell, he looked scared of Beverley. Actually D'angelo Russell now looks good in Nets. If they are not a play-off team this year, I don't see free agents like Paul George coming there.

[Fiasco]

I love Beverley.

That was some welcoming to the NBA from Beverley. He took no mercy on the kid. Constantly at him all game, he wore him down and in the second half drained a three right over him and Ball just looked dejected at that point.

3 points, 1-6 shooting. Think he ended up with a fair few rebounds and a handful of assists. You have to factor in opening night nerves and give him time to adjust but I just don't ever see him nearly justifying the hype. His shooting motion is the weirdest thing I've seen.

[Shaved Crossbar]

Ty Lue did well. Kyrie goes and the Cavs run some strong offensive sets, can't be a coincidence? Mainly for Korver but it bodes well for Isaiah's integration. LeBron dictated from second gear. Wade shouldn't be on the court as the same time as LeBron, he needs to accept a Manu type role. His ball movement is decent but the spacing really destroys them. Wade can chill wide open at 24 feet and nobody on either team gives a flying fuck. D Rose against a big is still money. Cavs' rim protection non existent.

Cavs have great depth in terms of scorers, so LeBron really should be able to conserve energy much better than last year - Green, JR, Korver, Rose, Wade, Crowder, and Love can all comfortably get 15 on a given night - that's 7 potential 15 point scorers without LeBron and Isaiah. Add bits from Channing, Shump and TT and that's a lot of easy RS wins. They should get 55 easily, I think Vegas lines have them at 51.5 and I'm choosing the over on that.

In terms of the Warriors, if they can minimise Wade's minutes and get Green to buy in on D, then a rotation of Isaiah, JR, Crowder, LeBron, Love, Rose, Green, TT is decent. Klay and KD will abuse Isaiah but he could abuse Zaza and tire Durant in return.