Author Topic: Typhoid Trump: the not-smart, corrupt, coward, loser, thread  (Read 4601965 times)

Offline Zeb

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57560 on: September 21, 2019, 05:59:01 pm »
Impeachment is not a technical decision, it is political. You are talking about overthrowing a duly elected president. You can't do it if the people of the country are not on board. And they aren't yet.

I'm talking more about the checks and balances provided for within the US constitution to prevent abuses of power by an elected official. Political decision, yes, or he'd have been impeached already for what came out with Mueller's investigation. And understandable that Dems want everyone to be jumping up and down demanding it first, of course, especially in the absence of any sizable portion of the GOP willing to say anything about it. Not full reality of how it's meant to work though, is it? Or Nixon would never have been impeached.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57561 on: September 21, 2019, 07:02:23 pm »
I'm talking more about the checks and balances provided for within the US constitution to prevent abuses of power by an elected official. Political decision, yes, or he'd have been impeached already for what came out with Mueller's investigation. And understandable that Dems want everyone to be jumping up and down demanding it first, of course, especially in the absence of any sizable portion of the GOP willing to say anything about it. Not full reality of how it's meant to work though, is it? Or Nixon would never have been impeached.

Checks and balances only work is both Republicans and Dems believe in it. Clearly they don’t .

Offline Zeb

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57562 on: September 21, 2019, 08:04:22 pm »
Checks and balances only work is both Republicans and Dems believe in it. Clearly they don’t .

True with impeachment proceedings leading to impeachment. At same time, when does the political calculation change for the Dems if Trump is using the power of the presidency to unlawfully/illegally set out to nobble the 2020 Dem candidate? They may end up in precise same spot come February 2021. It's not like US media have shown any signs of learning from 2016.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57563 on: September 21, 2019, 09:17:00 pm »
Just think it might be easier to erode his defences first...including the perv on the supreme court

Not sure those two are touchable as long as Trump as in place to be honest.  Removing the head makes them vulnerable because if Trump's guilt is proven then they have to justify the unquestioning support they've provided.

McConnell could be at risk in his own re-election bid, which might erode his ability to give Trump his continuing blank check support though.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57564 on: September 21, 2019, 09:18:56 pm »
True with impeachment proceedings leading to impeachment. At same time, when does the political calculation change for the Dems if Trump is using the power of the presidency to unlawfully/illegally set out to nobble the 2020 Dem candidate? They may end up in precise same spot come February 2021. It's not like US media have shown any signs of learning from 2016.

I think what you mean is impeachment proceedings leading to a conviction? 

Of course as things stand it's unlikely t he GOP will convict, but as I said, there's a dozen or so retiring GOP senators who strictly speaking have nothing to lose.  But even without a conviction, Trump's impeachment will stand on record for eternity.
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Offline vagabond

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57565 on: September 21, 2019, 09:27:53 pm »
Imagine if the situation was reversed and the GOP had control of congress. There's no way they wouldn't have acted by now. Democrats just don't know how to be a majority.
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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57566 on: September 21, 2019, 09:32:54 pm »
I'm talking more about the checks and balances provided for within the US constitution to prevent abuses of power by an elected official. Political decision, yes, or he'd have been impeached already for what came out with Mueller's investigation. And understandable that Dems want everyone to be jumping up and down demanding it first, of course, especially in the absence of any sizable portion of the GOP willing to say anything about it. Not full reality of how it's meant to work though, is it? Or Nixon would never have been impeached.

With Nixon, the Dems controlled both houses. Even with that, they had to wait for public opinion to turn and it was the tapes of Nixon actually planning to obstruct justice before the pressure popped. What convinced Nixon to step down and take a deal is that he was told that GOP politicians were starting to turn because of public opinion in their states/districts.

I don't think Trump should be be impeached until public opinion actually supports it. That is when Moscow Mitch will move. That means continuing the current investigations until public opinion turns.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57567 on: September 21, 2019, 09:42:13 pm »
Imagine if the situation was reversed and the GOP had control of congress. There's no way they wouldn't have acted by now. Democrats just don't know how to be a majority.

Think it's more a case the Democrats overthink things whereas the GOP just act.  Public perception seems to matter less to the GOP.  That said they squabble when in power and struggle to get anything done.

GOP couldn't wait to impeach Clinton.  He's arguably done worse than what he was ultimately impeached over though, which I think is why the result was going to be split along party lines.
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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57568 on: September 21, 2019, 09:44:29 pm »
Imagine if the situation was reversed and the GOP had control of congress. There's no way they wouldn't have acted by now. Democrats just don't know how to be a majority.

What? Is the Republican party growing or shrinking from their actions? Or have they shown themselves to have no patriotism, no ethical code, and no policy other than fixing elections. That's the playbook they use.

Trump would not be President if it wasn't for Paul Ryan and Moscow Mitch. And you say the Dems are weak? Not as weak as those guys.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57569 on: September 21, 2019, 09:54:32 pm »
With Nixon, the Dems controlled both houses. Even with that, they had to wait for public opinion to turn and it was the tapes of Nixon actually planning to obstruct justice before the pressure popped. What convinced Nixon to step down and take a deal is that he was told that GOP politicians were starting to turn because of public opinion in their states/districts.

I don't think Trump should be be impeached until public opinion actually supports it. That is when Moscow Mitch will move. That means continuing the current investigations until public opinion turns.

That's not going to happen.  If there's one thing this White House excels at, it's obfuscation.  They're breaking laws to do that, as it keeps the evidence that would turn public opinion against them out of the public domain.  When it's subpoenaed, the subpoenas are ignored, and they send Giuliani onto CNN to drop his pants and confuse everyone.

It's the Art of the Con.  But it works, because when laws aren't enforced those who break them are free to act with impunity.  Trump's playing the political version of The Purge.

Declaring impeachment makes ignoring all those information requests much more difficult - and a much more serious matter.  As long as this goes unchecked the precedent being set is that a president is above any law - if those who can refuse to hold him to account.  Enough's enough.

The only way to shake the apple tree of public opinion now is to actually impeach imo.  And even then, Trump really could outright murder somebody live on FOX and he'll still have people who will back him regardless. 

Trump's weapon is fear.  The Democrats have Pelosi has to stop being afraid.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 09:56:10 pm by Red Berry »
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Offline vagabond

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57570 on: September 21, 2019, 10:02:11 pm »
What? Is the Republican party growing or shrinking from their actions? Or have they shown themselves to have no patriotism, no ethical code, and no policy other than fixing elections. That's the playbook they use.

Trump would not be President if it wasn't for Paul Ryan and Moscow Mitch. And you say the Dems are weak? Not as weak as those guys.


I think we can draw a distinction between breaking protocol and using your power to achieve your policy ends (Mitch stonewalling the supreme court judge appointment), and using your power to literally safeguard the validity of your democratic process. Republicans do the former. Democrats do neither. This is not a normal situation. The guy is literally asking for foreign aid in cheating his way into a second term. If the gloves don't come off now, then when? It's all well and good saying you have to follow the book and only bring charges if he leaves office or you win the senate, but what guarantee do you have that he wont steal those elections too?
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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57571 on: September 22, 2019, 01:49:52 am »
That's not going to happen.  If there's one thing this White House excels at, it's obfuscation.  They're breaking laws to do that, as it keeps the evidence that would turn public opinion against them out of the public domain.  When it's subpoenaed, the subpoenas are ignored, and they send Giuliani onto CNN to drop his pants and confuse everyone.

It's the Art of the Con.  But it works, because when laws aren't enforced those who break them are free to act with impunity.  Trump's playing the political version of The Purge.

Declaring impeachment makes ignoring all those information requests much more difficult - and a much more serious matter.  As long as this goes unchecked the precedent being set is that a president is above any law - if those who can refuse to hold him to account.  Enough's enough.

The only way to shake the apple tree of public opinion now is to actually impeach imo.  And even then, Trump really could outright murder somebody live on FOX and he'll still have people who will back him regardless. 

Trump's weapon is fear.  The Democrats have Pelosi has to stop being afraid.

Trump understands one thing...fighting stuff in the courts. He's good at it.

Do you see them cooperating any more than they do because of the name of the enquiry?

He will obstruct and be uncooperative until the courts force him to do it. When will that be? A long friggin' time from now.

I don't see that as a way to beat him. Look what happened this week with Lewandowski. The Dems got nothing. And the GOP got a chance to frame it.


Trump and the GOP that gives him free reign should be tried in the court of public opinion...in the election. 






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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57572 on: September 22, 2019, 03:38:52 am »

The New York Times
An Abrupt Move That Stunned Aides: Inside Trump’s Aborted Attack on Iran
 Peter Baker, Eric Schmitt and Michael Crowley
7 hrs ago


WASHINGTON — By the time President Trump met with congressional leaders on the afternoon of June 20, he had already decided to retaliate against Iran for shooting down an American surveillance drone. But for once, he kept his cards close to the vest, soliciting advice rather than doing all of the talking.

Times President Trump has argued that his decision not to attack Iran was an expression of long-overdue restraint by a nation that has wasted too many lives and dollars overseas.

“Why don’t you go after the launch sites?” a Republican lawmaker asked.

“Well,” Mr. Trump replied with a hint, “I think you’ll like the decision.”

But barely three hours later, Mr. Trump had changed his mind. Without consulting his vice president, secretary of state or national security adviser, he reversed himself and, with ships readying missiles and airplanes already in the skies, told the Pentagon to call off the airstrikes with only 10 minutes to go. When Vice President Mike Pence and other officials returned to the White House for what they expected would be a long night of monitoring a military operation, they were stunned to learn the attack was off.

That about-face, so typically impulsive, instinctive and removed from any process, proved a decision point for a president who has often threatened to “totally destroy” enemies but at the same time has promised to extricate the United States from Middle East wars. It revealed a commander in chief more cautious than critics have assumed, yet underscored the limited options in a confrontation he had set in motion.

Three months later, some of Mr. Trump’s own allies fear the failure to follow through was taken by Iran as a sign of weakness, emboldening it to attack oil facilities in Saudi Arabia this month. Mr. Trump argues his decision was an expression of long-overdue restraint by a nation that has wasted too many lives and dollars overseas.

But he finds himself back where he was in June, wrestling with the consequences of using force and the consequences of avoiding it, except now Iran is accused of an even more brazen provocation, and the stakes seem even higher.

As Mr. Trump again weighs retaliation against Iran, this time for the Saudi attacks, the choice he made in June is instructive in the insight it provides into how the president approaches a life-or-death decision committing American forces against an enemy.

This account of that day in June is based on interviews with White House aides, Pentagon officials, military officers, American and foreign diplomats, members of Congress and outside presidential advisers, most of whom asked not to be identified describing private conversations.

The aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln in August. The ship was prepared to launch an attack against Iran on June 20, but the final order never came.
That day clearly stays with Mr. Trump, who has ruminated on it over the past week.

“When I was running, everybody said, ‘Oh, he’s going to get into war, he’s going to get into war, he’s going to blow everybody up, he’s going to get into war,’” he told reporters on Friday. “Well, the easiest thing I can do — in fact, I could do it while you’re here — would say, ‘Go ahead, fellas, go do it.’ And that would be a very bad day for Iran.”

But as eager as he is to fight with 280 characters on Twitter, Mr. Trump has proved profoundly reluctant to fight with live ammunition on a real battlefield. “For all of those that say, ‘Oh, they should do it, it shows weakness,’” he said, “actually, in my opinion, it shows strength.”

Proportional Response

Mr. Trump came to office fixated on Iran as an enemy to be confronted. In abandoning the nuclear agreement negotiated by President Barack Obama in 2015 on the grounds that it was a bad deal, Mr. Trump set himself on a collision course with Tehran that was bound to test him.

Strained by the “maximum pressure” sanctions that Mr. Trump has imposed, Iran this summer acted out aggressively, targeting oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman and vowing to reconstitute its nuclear program. The overnight downing of the Global Hawk drone in June seemed to climax a campaign of escalation that would draw in Mr. Trump.

Hours after the drone was destroyed, the president’s team met for breakfast at 7 a.m. in the office of John R. Bolton, then the national security adviser. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, were joined by two acting secretaries of defense, Patrick M. Shanahan, who had just announced his resignation and was days away from departing, and Mark T. Esper, his designated replacement.

At the meeting, several strike options were discussed. The Pentagon’s preferred plan was to attack one of the missile-laden Iranian boats that the United States had been tracking in the Gulf of Oman. American forces would warn the Iranians to evacuate the vessel, videotape them doing so, then sink the boat with a bomb or missile strike.

Democrats suggested caution, warning that a military strike could destabilize the region and play into Iran’s hands.
The end result would be zero casualties, which Mr. Shanahan and General Dunford argued would be a proportional response to the downing of a $130 million drone that had itself resulted in no loss of life.

Mr. Bolton and Mr. Pompeo were concerned that would not be decisive enough and pushed for strikes on Iranian soil. Mr. Bolton argued for what was described as a “comprehensive list” of targets, but only so many could be hit if the operation was to be carried out quickly, so the officials settled on three Iranian missile batteries and radars.

Mr. Trump bristled at the idea of getting the United States into a new war.
The same advisers reconvened along with more officials at 11 a.m. in the Situation Room to brief the president. The meeting lasted for about an hour as various possibilities were discussed.

Four officials said that striking the three targets would result in about 150 casualties, a number derived from Iranian manning doctrine for these particular facilities, including operators, maintenance personnel and security guards.

How much Mr. Trump was paying attention to that part of the briefing or what he absorbed was not clear in hindsight to some officials. But they said the casualty estimates were included as part of the target package presented to the president.

‘Loose and Stupid’

The national security team emerged from that meeting convinced it had a decision from Mr. Trump to strike, and soon the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln and other ships and aircraft were on the move, preparing for an attack around 9 p.m. Washington time, or just before dawn in the region.

Still, there continued to be pushback from Pentagon civilians and General Dunford. They argued that killing as many as 150 Iranians did not equate to the shooting down of a drone and could prompt a counterstrike by Iran that would escalate into a broader confrontation.

Moreover, General Dunford argued that a sustained conflict in the Middle East would require the United States to divert more forces to the region, including from the Pacific theater, which would benefit China.

Mr. Trump seemed to be nursing doubts of his own, partly because of reports that the Iranian commander who shot down the drone had acted on his own, not on specific orders of the national government. Just after the Situation Room meeting, he sat down with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada, who was visiting, and floated that scenario.

“I find it hard to believe it was intentional, if you want to know the truth,” Mr. Trump told reporters in the Oval Office shortly after noon. “I think that it could have been somebody who was loose and stupid that did it.”

Mr. Bolton argued that it mattered little if Tehran gave the order or gave its commanders so much authority that they could take such action on their own. But it clearly did matter to Mr. Trump.

It also mattered that he had been so critical of past presidents for being too quick to pull the trigger. In the days leading up to this moment, he had talked with Tucker Carlson, the Fox News host, who reminded him that he had come to office to get out of endless wars, not start a new one.

If he allowed himself to be pulled into a new conflict by the same people who got the United States into Iraq, then Mr. Trump could forget about his chances for re-election, Mr. Carlson told him.

And beyond his own electoral prospects, Mr. Trump bristled at the idea of a wider war. “People underestimate how much emotionally he does not like the idea of Americans dying needlessly,” said Christopher Ruddy, a friend and the chief executive of Newsmax.

‘Genuinely Worried’

At 3 p.m., Mr. Trump convened a dozen congressional leaders from both parties in the Situation Room, a rare act of inclusion. Mr. Pence, Mr. Pompeo, Mr. Shanahan, Mr. Esper, Mr. Bolton and Pat A. Cipollone, the White House counsel, joined the meeting.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi was late because she was meeting with Mr. Trudeau, and the group debated waiting for her, but with so much history of animosity between Democrats and Republicans, there was no small talk and the room fell into an awkward silence. Finally, they decided to go ahead with the discussion.

Mr. Trump rambled on about how bad Mr. Obama’s deal had been and insisted over and over again — one lawmaker estimated a dozen times — that his pressure campaign would force Iran to the bargaining table.

He seemed less certain about what to do in response to the drone shootdown. Democrats suggested caution, warning that a military strike could destabilize the region and play into Iran’s hands.

Mr. Trump, for once, did not reject their views. Indeed, he seemed concerned about an overreaction. “At the end of the day, the impression I got was that the president was genuinely worried about stumbling into a broader conflict,” said Representative Adam Smith, Democrat of Washington and chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.

“I think it was good that the president asked us over,” he added. “And he was inclusive. He didn’t just bring us over there to bark at us for an hour and a half. He listened. Which, frankly, surprised me a little bit.”

Mr. Trump disclosed no decision to the lawmakers, but forces were already in motion, and more than 10,000 sailors and airmen were on the move. The plan called for Tomahawk cruise missiles to be fired from at least two Navy ships in the region. Carrier-based fighter/attack planes would not participate in the original strike, but would be launched into the air above the North Arabian Sea to counter any attempt by the Iranians to retaliate.

Mr. Trump still had time to rethink it — the military calculated the “go/no go” point at which the first stage of the operation would begin and it would no longer be possible to call off.

‘The Order Didn’t Come’

As the hour approached, Mr. Trump was given the estimate that 150 Iranians would be killed in the attack. The president later said publicly that it came when he asked his generals, but in fact, multiple officials said the estimate was delivered to him by a White House lawyer who got it from a Pentagon lawyer.

Pentagon lawyers typically prepare casualty estimates drawn from manuals listing how many personnel are believed to work at certain foreign facilities. One official said that White House lawyers demanded an estimate because they had to fill out a memo justifying military action under the president’s Article II powers as commander in chief.

Advocates of the strike angrily assumed the lawyers had pulled an end-run around the process and complained that the estimate was just a formula that did not account for the fact that the attack would be conducted at night when few if any personnel would be on duty.

Why Mr. Trump suddenly latched onto the estimate at this point rather than when casualties were discussed at the earlier meeting remains a mystery to many officials. Some assumed he was influenced by Mr. Carlson or other allies that his re-election would be jeopardized and was looking for cover.

But when the decision came, Mr. Pence, Mr. Pompeo and Mr. Bolton were all out of the White House, and the president did not call them for input. Instead, he told the Pentagon to call off the attack.

General Dunford called Gen. Kenneth F. McKenzie, the head of the Central Command in Tampa, Fla., with new orders from the White House: The strike was off. The Tomahawk missiles stood down. Attack planes were called back.

In the command center of the Abraham Lincoln, Rear Adm. Michael E. Boyle, the commander of the carrier strike group, had been waiting for the final order to attack. “All the systems were on, all the lights were green, we were waiting for the order,” Admiral Boyle recalled. “And the order didn’t come.”

‘The Most Reluctant’

When the president’s top advisers returned to the White House and learned what happened, they were flabbergasted. Mr. Pompeo was described as incredulous, Mr. Bolton as aggravated.

The advisers were stunned all over again the next morning when Mr. Trump took to Twitter to reveal that he had been “cocked and loaded” for a strike and then called it off. There was no need to publicly disclose how close they had come to acting, they thought; by doing so, the president risked making it look like he had blinked.

The moment was all too reminiscent to them of Mr. Obama, who had warned Syria that using chemical weapons on civilians during its civil war would cross a “red line” prompting American action, only to back off the threat when Damascus ignored him in 2013. Like Mr. Trump, Mr. Obama was mindful of getting the United States into another Middle East war, but the failure to follow through did lasting damage to his reputation.

Also like Mr. Obama, Mr. Trump would find another way that had its own merits. Mr. Obama reached a deal with Russia to remove Syria’s chemical weapons arsenal, which he argued did far more to save lives than a momentary strike would have, even though Syria later cheated. In Mr. Trump’s case, he launched a cyberstrike that did considerable damage to Iran’s ability of targeting shipping with no loss of life.

But now allies like Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, and advisers like Mr. Bolton, who left the White House this month after deep disagreements with Mr. Trump, including over the aborted strike, argue that marching up to the line of a military operation and then calling it off only emboldened Iran.

“The president’s repeated failure to militarily respond to Iranian actions has been a serious mistake,” said Reuel Marc Gerecht, a former C.I.A. official at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a group dedicated to countering Iran’s influence. “To believe the reverse requires a certain deep dive into new-age, oh-so-Western psychology, where crippling caution becomes a virtue.”

Some said Mr. Trump has only himself to blame. “Trump is in a box of his own making,” said Philip Gordon, who was a Middle East adviser to Mr. Obama. “He has put in place policies — ‘maximum pressure’ on Iran — guaranteed to provoke an aggressive Iranian response, but he’s not prepared to respond aggressively in turn, and the Iranians know it.”

“So now he has to either back down or go down that slippery military slope,” he added, “a terrible dilemma he should have considered before he went down this road in the first place.”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/an-abrupt-move-that-stunned-aides-inside-trumps-aborted-attack-on-iran/ar-AAHDJQm?ocid=spartanntp
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57573 on: September 22, 2019, 08:38:09 am »
There may come a time when the US feel they need to interfer and do something about Iran. But it's positive that the lunatic in the White House for once showed some calm.

        * * * * * *


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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57574 on: September 22, 2019, 01:23:02 pm »
I think we can draw a distinction between breaking protocol and using your power to achieve your policy ends (Mitch stonewalling the supreme court judge appointment), and using your power to literally safeguard the validity of your democratic process. Republicans do the former. Democrats do neither. This is not a normal situation. The guy is literally asking for foreign aid in cheating his way into a second term. If the gloves don't come off now, then when? It's all well and good saying you have to follow the book and only bring charges if he leaves office or you win the senate, but what guarantee do you have that he wont steal those elections too?

Not one GOP politician has commented on this latest abuse. They have no balls once again.

How is this guy gonna get impeached when the other party has no testicular fortitude? But these self-serving  aholes will control any senate hearings to determine his guilt? And you expect a happy outcome?

Trump's a symptom of a corrupt party of grifters. Only an election will fix the real problem.
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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57575 on: September 22, 2019, 02:03:28 pm »
Farmers hqve recieved 28 billion from Trump to bail them out...automakers got 12b in 2008 to save them.


And who is the socialist?


]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-19/farmers-say-trump-s-28-billion-bailout-isn-t-a-solution
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 02:15:16 pm by Giono »
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57576 on: September 22, 2019, 02:43:47 pm »
I think what you mean is impeachment proceedings leading to a conviction? 

Yeah, brain farting. :) Thank you.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57577 on: September 22, 2019, 02:44:00 pm »
Farmers hqve recieved 28 billion from Trump to bail them out...automakers got 12b in 2008 to save them.


And who is the socialist?


]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-19/farmers-say-trump-s-28-billion-bailout-isn-t-a-solution

Good point.

It's ironic when Republicans can't see it. They accuse Sanders of being a socialist and think Trump will save them from socialism. And it's Trump who, through his own actions, has decided to put the farmers on the government's payroll.

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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57578 on: September 22, 2019, 03:02:03 pm »
Good point.

It's ironic when Republicans can't see it. They accuse Sanders of being a socialist and think Trump will save them from socialism. And it's Trump who, through his own actions, has decided to put the farmers on the government's payroll.

Corporate socialism of the worst kind goes on for decades. But the repugs make people fearful that any kind of redistribution to actual people will make them lazy and unambitious...

And make no mistake...farm payments are not going to ma and pa farmers. They are going to corporate farms mass-producing single crops for export like soy, corn, wheat.

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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57579 on: September 22, 2019, 03:03:24 pm »
Good point.

It's ironic when Republicans can't see it. They accuse Sanders of being a socialist and think Trump will save them from socialism. And it's Trump who, through his own actions, has decided to put the farmers on the government's payroll.

For people under 50 in America, socialism ain't such a dirty word. And if Mitch McConnell and Trump are against it...it's gotta be good. :)
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57580 on: September 22, 2019, 05:46:22 pm »
Trump understands one thing...fighting stuff in the courts. He's good at it.

Do you see them cooperating any more than they do because of the name of the enquiry?

He will obstruct and be uncooperative until the courts force him to do it. When will that be? A long friggin' time from now.

I don't see that as a way to beat him. Look what happened this week with Lewandowski. The Dems got nothing. And the GOP got a chance to frame it.


Trump and the GOP that gives him free reign should be tried in the court of public opinion...in the election.

The court of public opinion will judge them even more harshly if they defy subpoenas relating to an impeachment enquiry.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57581 on: September 22, 2019, 05:47:42 pm »
Trump understands one thing...fighting stuff in the courts. He's good at it.

Do you see them cooperating any more than they do because of the name of the enquiry?

He will obstruct and be uncooperative until the courts force him to do it. When will that be? A long friggin' time from now.

I don't see that as a way to beat him. Look what happened this week with Lewandowski. The Dems got nothing. And the GOP got a chance to frame it.


Trump and the GOP that gives him free reign should be tried in the court of public opinion...in the election.


He's good at losing cases.
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Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57582 on: September 23, 2019, 01:18:10 am »

He's good at losing cases.
And money, and businesses, how many times has this supposedly "master businessman" declared bankruptcy?

Offline Chakan

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57583 on: September 23, 2019, 01:21:25 am »
And money, and businesses, how many times has this supposedly "master businessman" declared bankruptcy?
 

4 times

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57584 on: September 23, 2019, 01:41:58 am »
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57585 on: September 23, 2019, 06:09:02 am »

He's good at losing cases.

His goal is to delay and wear people down. It's what he is doing now.
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Offline leroy

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57586 on: September 23, 2019, 07:37:53 am »
Impeachment is not a technical decision, it is political. You are talking about overthrowing a duly elected president. You can't do it if the people of the country are not on board. And they aren't yet.

Not moving impeachment is a political decision. Holding him to account for his actions through the appropriate mechanism is not "overthrowing a duly elected president".  The appropriate mechanism is being ignored for political reasons.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 07:40:19 am by leroy »

Offline leroy

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57587 on: September 23, 2019, 07:45:14 am »
Trump understands one thing...fighting stuff in the courts. He's good at it.

Is he?  His success in that area seem to primarily be centred around bullying small players with bankruptcy through protracted litigation.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57588 on: September 23, 2019, 11:58:15 am »
Is he?  His success in that area seem to primarily be centred around bullying small players with bankruptcy through protracted litigation.

His goal is to delay and wear people down. It's what he is doing now.

It's not about winning when it comes to court cases with Trump.  It's a war of attrition and resources, as with the small players he could prolong the litigation beyond their financial capacity to fight it. 

And right now, it's all about stalling.  His tactics prevent evidence from spilling into the public arena that could damage him politically and economically. 

We're at the point now where we should be seeing arrest warrants issued for those in defiance of subpoenas, but when you're talking about cabinet members, heads of departments - not least of which the Depart of Justice itself - that's some messy shit right there.

Police/FBI removing key political figures from offices in handcuffs?  That looks like a coup; when ironically it's the guys in charge who are doing a slow, coup-by-stealth, and The Democrats are just trying to follow the rule of law.
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57589 on: September 23, 2019, 12:06:00 pm »
Trump confirms he raised Bidens in Ukraine call

Quote
President Trump has confirmed that he raised the subject of former Vice-President Joe Biden and his son in a July phone call with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky.

Mr Trump is facing allegations that he pressured Ukraine to investigate his potential 2020 rival, which he denies.

But his admission about the phone call fuelled calls for Democrats to launch impeachment proceedings in Congress.

Adam Schiff, a senior Democrat, said Mr Trump may have "crossed the Rubicon".

Mr Schiff, the influential head of the House Intelligence Committee, had previously opposed impeachment.

Hunter Biden became a director at Ukrainian natural gas company Burisma in 2014 while his father was Barack Obama's vice-president with a key role in US policy towards Ukraine.

Quote
Mr Trump told reporters on Sunday that the 25 July call with Mr Zelensky was "congratulatory" but mentioned corruption and "largely the fact that we don't want our people, like Vice-President Biden and his son, creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine".

But he insisted he had done "absolutely nothing wrong". He has previously accused the whistleblower of being "partisan" and said he knew all his phone calls to foreign leaders were listened to by US agencies.

While Mr Trump suggested a transcript could be released, senior Trump administration officials said it would be inappropriate for private conversations between world leaders to be made public.

The Wall Street Journal has quoted sources as saying Mr Trump had urged Mr Zelensky about eight times to work with his lawyer Rudy Giuliani on an investigation into Hunter Biden, but had not offered anything in return.

When Hunter Biden joined Burisma in 2014, questions were raised about a potential conflict of interest for his father. Ukraine was undergoing a political transition after its pro-Russia president was forced out of office, and the elder Biden was making frequent trips to the country.

In 2016, Mr Biden pushed the Ukrainian government to fire its top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, whose office had been investigating the oligarch owner of Burisma.

In a speech last year at a think-tank he boasted of having used a billion-dollar loan guarantee to successfully force Mr Shokin out.

"I looked at them and said 'I'm leaving in six hours: if the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money'," he said.

Mr Trump and his allies accuse Mr Biden of having acted to protect his son. However, several western governments and major financers of Ukraine's government also wanted Mr Shokin dismissed because he was seen as a barrier to anti-corruption efforts.

Mr Shokin had also shown little appetite for pursuing Burisma.

In May this year, Ukraine's then prosecutor general said there was no evidence of wrongdoing by Joe or Hunter Biden.

Joe Biden has said he has never spoken to his son about his business dealings.

Democrats have been split on whether they should seek to impeach Mr Trump over alleged wrongdoing.

However this latest story - which Mr Trump's opponents allege could amount to inviting foreign interference in the 2020 election - appears to have pushed some senior Democrats closer to backing such a move.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said that if the whistleblower complaint was not turned over to Congress the Trump administration would "be entering a grave new chapter of lawlessness which will take us into a whole new stage of investigation".

Ms Pelosi, like Mr Schiff, has thus far resisted demands for impeachment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49793408

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57590 on: September 23, 2019, 01:06:09 pm »
Quote
However this latest story - which Mr Trump's opponents allege could amount to inviting demanding foreign interference in the 2020 election - appears to have pushed some senior Democrats closer to backing such a move.

The GOP and their cronies at FOX will no doubt pooh pooh the "no evidence" line being put out by Ukraine - all the while using the Mueller reports as toilet paper.

Still, who needs a demand to release information that is being withheld, when we can rely on old Donnie himself to eventually spill the beans?
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57591 on: September 23, 2019, 01:21:12 pm »
So all the other shit he's done is fine but this is the final straw...


Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57592 on: September 23, 2019, 01:40:42 pm »
The GOP and their cronies at FOX will no doubt pooh pooh the "no evidence" line being put out by Ukraine - all the while using the Mueller reports as toilet paper.

Still, who needs a demand to release information that is being withheld, when we can rely on old Donnie himself to eventually spill the beans?
When politicians and "advisors" of both camps are up to their necks in dodgy business dealings with foreign governments...
Why would any of them want the spotlight shining into those dark places ?

Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57593 on: September 23, 2019, 01:55:05 pm »
Not moving impeachment is a political decision. Holding him to account for his actions through the appropriate mechanism is not "overthrowing a duly elected president".  The appropriate mechanism is being ignored for political reasons.


It is not a legal decision. They impeached Clinton because he misled people about a blowjob. It was not a crime.

It is political. The only people that can determine that it is worthy of replacing the president is the senate. They are the judge, the congress is just the district attorney. The DA can bring any case they want in front of the judges...but won't get a conviction.

Trump will frame it as a witchhunt. The senate will justify that interpretation by claiming there is no reason for impeachment. And the GOP will go into the election cohesive and on message. The election won't be about the border, guns, trade, etc. It will all be eclipsed by an imoeachment that went nowhere.

Instead the Dems should continue the investigations. Revelations are what Trump fears, not impeachment. He's welcoming it. 

 
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Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57594 on: September 23, 2019, 01:58:38 pm »
It's not about winning when it comes to court cases with Trump.  It's a war of attrition and resources, as with the small players he could prolong the litigation beyond their financial capacity to fight it. 

And right now, it's all about stalling.  His tactics prevent evidence from spilling into the public arena that could damage him politically and economically. 

We're at the point now where we should be seeing arrest warrants issued for those in defiance of subpoenas, but when you're talking about cabinet members, heads of departments - not least of which the Depart of Justice itself - that's some messy shit right there.

Police/FBI removing key political figures from offices in handcuffs?  That looks like a coup; when ironically it's the guys in charge who are doing a slow, coup-by-stealth, and The Democrats are just trying to follow the rule of law.

Exactly. He lawyers up and wears people down.

I prefer that the Dems continues the pressure and then take the arguement to the people that the GOP senators up for election are doing nothing about Trump and really nothing legislatively at all.
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57595 on: September 23, 2019, 02:00:09 pm »
It is not a legal decision. They impeached Clinton because he misled people about a blowjob. It was not a crime.

Perjury and obstruction are crimes.

Offline Chakan

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57596 on: September 23, 2019, 02:01:18 pm »
There's no point in starting impeachment proceedings when you 100% know the outcome.

It's like trying to convict someone who has bought the entire courtroom process from the jury to the judge.

Offline Giono

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57597 on: September 23, 2019, 02:49:21 pm »
There's no point in starting impeachment proceedings when you 100% know the outcome.

It's like trying to convict someone who has bought the entire courtroom process from the jury to the judge.

Agree. It is better to take the evidence that the judge and jury need to be replaced.

However, in the meantime keep the evidence popping up with court processes and subpoenas. My bet is Trump does poorly under some water torture....drip drippung corruption evidence and financial exposure.
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57598 on: September 23, 2019, 02:53:16 pm »
Agree. It is better to take the evidence that the judge and jury need to be replaced.

However, in the meantime keep the evidence popping up with court processes and subpoenas. My bet is Trump does poorly under some water torture....drip drippung corruption evidence and financial exposure.

Yup keep the pressure on and keep trying to show trump for what he is, a complete buffoon and scam artist. But impeachment while the GOP still control the senate is a non starter.

Offline Mumm-Ra

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #57599 on: September 23, 2019, 03:01:04 pm »
Only two presidents have been impeached and neither were removed from office. But they have gone down in history with that stain on their name, and the whole world got a front row seat for the proceedings (well, for Clinton anyway). Clinton getting impeached for the Lewinsky thing was obviously nonsense, but if you don't think it affected his legacy and history's perception of him you are crazy. He will forever be linked with that. Impeaching Trump will not be successful but you'd hope it will lay bare what he's done, and the pressure put on him will have its effects