Author Topic: Re: Brendan Rodgers to remain at LFC - pointless speculation in here please...  (Read 177362 times)

Offline Kopenhagen

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Here is a thought, if it was forced on him, then you have to assume the club had a plan to replace these guys ready to go. I can't imagine Werner saying "Brendan you need to ditch your assistants, but I have no fucking clue who you should bring in."  So why havent they been replaced right away?

To be fair, it hasn't even been officially announced that we've parted ways with Pascoe & Marsh yet. They very well could have someone lined up. All we know is what the Club/FSG leak to the media.
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'They' didn't get lucky.

We made some good signings, we have a good manager and we performed well as a team - not just Suarez either, Sturridge, Sterling, Coutinho and Gerrard in that deeper role were all fantastic.

Arsenal have never spent the sort of money the 3 sides around them have, even United never really consistently spent the sort of money Chelsea and City did (until recently), it's not only about that.


You clearly think it is, but I think you're going to go disappointed even if the owners sell up, as I really cannot see anyone coming in and spending £1bn on the club then also pumping in vast amounts on top. There are very very few people in this world who have that sort of ability, and even fewer willing to do so.

I wouldn't call it lucky but a number of things went our way. Suarez didn't get banned for a start and scored near enough a goal a game for the first two thirds of the season. Sturridge stayed fit for most of the season and played in 29 of the 38 League games. Gerrard had an unbelievable turn around in regard to injuries going from a permacrock to a constant starter.

Add in the fact that of the teams who finished above the season before United, Chelsea, Spurs and Everton changed their manager and things fell quite nicely for us.
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Offline KiNki

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Cut to the chase  you want the same kind of owners Chelsea and City have, as much as i have a few misgivings about FSG they were never going to buy us a fantasy style squad

who's bigger than liverpool?

Offline Fromola

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Cut to the chase  you want the same kind of owners Chelsea and City have, as much as i have a few misgivings about FSG they were never going to buy us a fantasy style squad

i'd be happy with owners who are prepared to get the best manager, scouts, chief executive, DOF ergo players that our money can buy. FSG have not done that.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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Why did Rafa get rid of Pako?

Wasnt something about him leaking tactics to Chelsea or at the very least being to friendly with them.

I maybe wrong but that's the way I remember it.
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No mate id be happy with an Atletico Madrid set up , solid manager and staff ,when you sell world class players you replace them with players of the same ilk and not down grades.

So you want a club who plays in a league with a big 2 and then the next two league positions (for CL) are near enough a shoe in?

So you want a club which uses 3rd party ownership to buy players?

So you want a club which is in a country which makes signing players from South America fairly easy?


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They can give anyone a game on their day ,i would be more than happy with that,we where humiliated in so many respects last season it was devastating some times and i have only seen us lift 1 league title the year i started supporting the club ,even some of the bad seasons during the 90's we were never as bad as some of the games last season.

Even in a league with only a big 2 (not big 5) they have won the league once since 96. They haven't even been runner up during that time. They've won the Copa once since 96. They've won 1 CL since 1976.


They have been in a great place in recent years, for sure, but there are so many reasons why it's not exact simple to replicate what they do.

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i'd be happy with owners who are prepared to get the best manager, scouts, chief executive, DOF ergo players that our money can buy. FSG have not done that.

Which is the whole crux of the issue.

The irony is that everyone is held to account for their actions at the Club except FSG.
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Offline lukeb1981

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Another bandwagoner.

I have a suggestion. Manchester is just down the street (if you live in Liverpool) if you don't its just a different URL. They have the oil millions you desperately want, it won't cost you much to throw out your Liverpool curtains, and order a sky blue pair  and an Aguero poster for your bedroom wall.
You forgot the wallpaper i bought and the lamp shade and bollox what will i do with my cape now, you dont have to invest the money city have or Chelsea have but there is a standard you need to invest if you want to be in the Champions league and if you dont invest that much or at least buy clever then you dont qualify and fall further behind and im no fucking band wagoner i have supported this club club through thick and thin and spent a hell of a lot to go see matches,the point i was making is FSG dont invest enough to keep us competitive for top 4 positions.

Offline lukeb1981

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So you want a club who plays in a league with a big 2 and then the next two league positions (for CL) are near enough a shoe in?

So you want a club which uses 3rd party ownership to buy players?

So you want a club which is in a country which makes signing players from South America fairly easy?


Even in a league with only a big 2 (not big 5) they have won the league once since 96. They haven't even been runner up during that time. They've won the Copa once since 96. They've won 1 CL since 1976.


They have been in a great place in recent years, for sure, but there are so many reasons why it's not exact simple to replicate what they do.
Craig in fairness im talking about the way they have been set up for the past 3-4 seasons , they have built well for the way they are today

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You forgot the wallpaper i bought and the lamp shade and bollox what will i do with my cape now, you dont have to invest the money city have or Chelsea have but there is a standard you need to invest if you want to be in the Champions league and if you dont invest that much or at least buy clever then you dont qualify and fall further behind and im no fucking band wagoner i have supported this club club through thick and thin and spent a hell of a lot to go see matches,the point i was making is FSG dont invest enough to keep us competitive for top 4 positions.

We've spent a lot more than Arsenal have over the last 5 years. Christ I'd image we have over the last 15 years.

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Craig in fairness im talking about the way they have been set up for the past 3-4 seasons , they have built well for the way they are today

Do you think that happened over night? Or do you think there was some trial and error involved finding some competitive edges over the higher spending teams above them until they hit upon this current set up?

Offline KiNki

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i'd be happy with owners who are prepared to get the best manager, scouts, chief executive, DOF ergo players that our money can buy. FSG have not done that.

bingo.

Offline lukeb1981

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Do you think that happened over night? Or do you think there was some trial and error involved finding some competitive edges over the higher spending teams above them until they hit upon this current set up?
If they get the next set up right id gladly eat my words,but the majority of things have been a fuck up so far ,selling Torres and buying Carroll ,Selling luis and not replacing him,sacking Kenny (which is why i will never like them),letting Rodgers come in without experienced staff,Camolli, that media fella that wanted to post shit through someones letter box, just one fuck up to another,not bringing in a proper MD,DOF this next move needs to be spot on.

Offline Passmaster Molby

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i'd be happy with owners who are prepared to get the best manager, scouts, chief executive, DOF ergo players that our money can buy. FSG have not done that.

Exactly. It's not all about having owners who are sheikhs or oil barons who splurge hundreds of millions of pounds on the squad, it's about having owners who will simply get the best possible manager and staff out there available to them and then give them as much money and resources as they possibly can to ensure they can be successful.

It really isn't rocket science, but I feel FSG are trying to be too clever for their own good and making things far more complicated than they really should be.

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We've spent a lot more than Arsenal have over the last 5 years. Christ I'd image we have over the last 15 years.

We have also recouped a lot more in players sales as well Craig. The Net spend is pretty close around about 5 mil a season.
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Offline Twelfth Man

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http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/pako-ayestaran-linked-liverpool-fc-9405931?

So they still know fuck all
Oh fucking great. Knew it would be too good to be true. Watch them employ some cheap as chips clowns. Or maybe do away with the concept of assistant coaches altogether. A bit like making do with just one fit or suitable striker like in Rodgers first and last seasons.
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Offline lukeb1981

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We've spent a lot more than Arsenal have over the last 5 years. Christ I'd image we have over the last 15 years.
True ,the blueprint for how they play is what keeps them competitive and i remember Rafa going on about how much they invested in youth and how much money they paid kids got them the best young crop of players coming through , in fairness that seems to be an area we are excelling in now and that was down to Rafa, just a pity borrell and pep are not part of that set up now.

Offline tommy LFC

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I think FSG are waiting for the new stand to come into use, wait for us to qualify for the CL and then they'll be looking to cash in for a huge profit. With the new stand, CL, new disgustingly high tv deals and they fact they got us for a bargain... they'll be rolling in it.
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You can't gauge what a player is worth off a transfer fee alone because the total cost of the player includes wages. So, for Lallana we basically paid half of what Arsenal paid for Sanchez. Is Lallana worth half a Sanchez? To me he is for his quality; he just needs to be fit. Then there is a question of whether a transfer is a success and you can't judge that off the first season so you're wrong on that count too.

I wouldn't say Lallana is worth half of Sanchez. He was a good player for a mid table club in the PL for 2 season and is 26 years old. By comparison, Sanchez had pllayed for the most successful club in Europe in the last decade in the biggest matches in the biggest competitions. His track record was far superior to that of Lallana.

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The very fact that Lallana is from the EPL is why he's worth so much so there's no point iffing about another league. We bought Lallana from Southampton after he had a PFA POTY nominated season.

That's another reason the transfer was disappointing. We bought him from the PL presumably to avoid the settling in period. Therefore, that makes it even more disappointing that he hasn't hit top form right way.

Either way, strictly looking at quality, age and what he has accomplished prior to joining us, he is not worth more than £10-12 million. It's no surprise to me that Brendan is the one that FSG have chosen to blame for our transfer failures.

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Exactly. It's not all about having owners who are sheikhs or oil barons who splurge hundreds of millions of pounds on the squad, it's about having owners who will simply get the best possible manager and staff out there available to them and then give them as much money and resources as they possibly can to ensure they can be successful.

It really isn't rocket science, but I feel FSG are trying to be too clever for their own good and making things far more complicated than they really should be.

For me the problem is that FSG is an investment group that gets investment because of it's USP of number crunching. Given that can Henry just copy what makes other clubs successful.
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Offline Kopenhagen

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Why did Rafa get rid of Pako?

Wasnt something about him leaking tactics to Chelsea or at the very least being to friendly with them.

I maybe wrong but that's the way I remember it.

Accused of talking to Barcelona & Athletic behind Rafa's back, if I recall correctly. Was placed on gardening leave too, so I guess he had some sensitive information?
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We have also recouped a lot more in players sales as well Craig. The Net spend is pretty close around about 5 mil a season.

You sure that's true mate? The last 5 year net spend I saw had Arsenal at around £100m and ourselves at £160m. If you add in the 2 years prior it's an even bigger gap.

Offline lukeb1981

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Oh fucking great. Knew it would be too good to be true. Watch them employ some cheap as chips clowns. Or maybe do away with the concept of assistant coaches altogether. A bit like making do with just one fit or suitable striker like in Rodgers first and last seasons.
I did find it hard to believe that Pako would come back as an assistant.Not saying it wont happen but it would be strange ,he seems to have moved on from that especially as he has a better cv than Rodgers ,i wouldnt be surprised if he was the manager coach though again the start of the season.

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Which is the whole crux of the issue.

The irony is that everyone is held to account for their actions at the Club except FSG.



Who do you want FSG to be accountable to? They are the owners. They are there to make changes when everyone else is not living up to the standards which is what they are doing now.
« Last Edit: June 7, 2015, 05:29:43 pm by LFC_when_it_suits »

Offline adamski29

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Cut to the chase  you want the same kind of owners Chelsea and City have, as much as i have a few misgivings about FSG they were never going to buy us a fantasy style squad







They didn't have to buy us a "fantasy squad" though all you would expect is that after we qualified for cl last year and had such good press with the type of football that we played, that they would have taken advantage of that and bought even one real quality player preferably two. But they didn't even do that against all common sense.

Mabey it was the setup to aquire transfers that led to that but a large part of that is there policy. In any event it was them that put that recruitment system in place so all roads lead back to them anyway.

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You sure that's true mate? The last 5 year net spend I saw had Arsenal at around £100m and ourselves at £160m. If you add in the 2 years prior it's an even bigger gap.

I got it from here Craig.

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier-league-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons
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Offline chopperchittar

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Why did Rafa get rid of Pako?

Wasnt something about him leaking tactics to Chelsea or at the very least being to friendly with them.

I maybe wrong but that's the way I remember it.
My understanding was he was going for managers jobs behind Rafa's back
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Offline lukeb1981

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Who do you want FSG to be accountable to? They are the owners. They are there to make changes when everyone else is not living up to the standards which is what they are doing now.
They had a chance after they sacked Kenny to start fresh with a young Manager, they should have put assistants in to help him and DOF and head scout to guide him and get what players he needed to fit the style of play, they just through together a sham of a committee and let Rodgers have free reign ,it was set up for failure before it even got going , surely they have have to be held accountable for being irresponsible in that regard.

Offline Vorg

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Well how did we do without him Craig? Seriously he dug us out of the shit in so many games,but the point i was making was FSG have not invested enough to finish 1st,2nd or 3rd in this league and that they got lucky that we finished 2nd because the level of investment didnt match that finish .

We have spent over £350 million over last 5 years. Only Chelsea (sugar daddy owner), Man City (sugar daddy owner), and Man United (second biggest revenue in the world, almost £200 million more per year than us) have spent more, and our spending is almost level with Man United. We have spent almost £100 million more than Arsenal during last five years. During Rodgers' tenure alone, we have spent more than £210 million on new players. The amount of money available has not been a problem during FSG's rule, but the way the money has been spent.

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Who do you want FSG to be accountable to? They are the owners. They are there to make changes when everyone else is not living up to the standards which is what they are doing now.

Surely that is only true if the owners are capable of making those decisions. For me they are not and need to hand over the responsibility of running the Club to people who do.
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Offline Twelfth Man

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Surely that is only true if the owners are capable of making those decisions. For me they are not and need to hand over the responsibility of running the Club to people who do.
Dabblers, a rabble of Wall Street gamblers and Hollywood execs who regard running sports organisations as a hobby. They want to be involved, in the same way you wouldn't hire someone to go cycling for you, if that is your thing.
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We have spent over £350 million over last 5 years. Only Chelsea (sugar daddy owner), Man City (sugar daddy owner), and Man United (second biggest revenue in the world, almost £200 million more per year than us) have spent more, and our spending is almost level with Man United. We have spent almost £100 million more than Arsenal during last five years. During Rodgers' tenure alone, we have spent more than £210 million on new players. The amount of money available has not been a problem during FSG's rule, but the way the money has been spent.

The crux though is how much has been spent on CEO's, DoF's, Managers, Scouts etc because for me we tend to cheap out in key areas. Look at Arsenal they have one of the top managers in World Football, one of the biggest and best scouting networks in world football and have had a series of big hitters in the vice chairman CEO role.
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They had a chance after they sacked Kenny to start fresh with a young Manager, they should have put assistants in to help him and DOF and head scout to guide him and get what players he needed to fit the style of play, they just through together a sham of a committee and let Rodgers have free reign ,it was set up for failure before it even got going , surely they have have to be held accountable for being irresponsible in that regard.

So their biggest crime is not sticking to their original plan of what they wanted all along?

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The crux though is how much has been spent on CEO's, DoF's, Managers, Scouts etc because for me we tend to cheap out in key areas. Look at Arsenal they have one of the top managers in World Football, one of the biggest and best scouting networks in world football and have had a series of big hitters in the vice chairman CEO role.

Our biggest issue with spending is how much Rodgers has wasted in transfer funds on the players that he wanted. As I mentioned, the TC has done a good job signing players. It's Brendan's hand picked players who have been expensive flops.

Offline lukeb1981

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So their biggest crime is not sticking to their original plan of what they wanted all along?
Sticking to it and making sure they get the best people in for them positions and giving the cash to those people to carry out their role as best they can , like every company in every walk of life , they have just half arsed everything up till now and stuttered from one mistake to another ,that was forgiveable in the first 1 or 2 seasons but this is the fifth they should have a solid structure in place by now .

Offline lukeb1981

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Our biggest issue with spending is how much Rodgers has wasted in transfer funds on the players that he wanted. As I mentioned, the TC has done a good job signing players. It's Brendan's hand picked players who have been expensive flops.
Thats where an experienced crew around him might have pulled the reigns in and and pointed him in right direction(well thats a nice way of putting it)

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So their biggest crime is not sticking to their original plan of what they wanted all along?

If you were going to be rational about it then you set out the structure first and then recruit within that structure. A logical way for me would of been to get football nous on to the board. Recruit a DoF and then the board and the DoF would recruit a head coach / manager.

Instead of that Henry interfered recruited Rodgers who didn't want a DoF brought in over his head and we ended up with a mish mash that has never worked. Now we have Mike Gordon a man with no background having a go at fixing things.
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Offline Halcyon Lissome

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I wouldn't say Lallana is worth half of Sanchez. He was a good player for a mid table club in the PL for 2 season and is 26 years old. By comparison, Sanchez had pllayed for the most successful club in Europe in the last decade in the biggest matches in the biggest competitions. His track record was far superior to that of Lallana.

Sanchez had the better pedigree, no doubt, but are you saying Lallana is not even worth half a Sanchez?

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That's another reason the transfer was disappointing. We bought him from the PL presumably to avoid the settling in period. Therefore, that makes it even more disappointing that he hasn't hit top form right way.

Either way, strictly looking at quality, age and what he has accomplished prior to joining us, he is not worth more than £10-12 million. It's no surprise to me that Brendan is the one that FSG have chosen to blame for our transfer failures.

We bought him because he was a PFA POTY level player and whenever he has been fit for us he has played well. His settling in has been affected because of injuries, not his quality.

Your appraisal of him is a joke. You need to look around and see how much players are worth these days - Shane Long went to Southampton, the same time we bought Lallana, for 12m.

We have spent over £350 million over last 5 years. Only Chelsea (sugar daddy owner), Man City (sugar daddy owner), and Man United (second biggest revenue in the world, almost £200 million more per year than us) have spent more, and our spending is almost level with Man United. We have spent almost £100 million more than Arsenal during last five years. During Rodgers' tenure alone, we have spent more than £210 million on new players. The amount of money available has not been a problem during FSG's rule, but the way the money has been spent.

Transfers go beyond that 5 year period which is why despite spending a lot it still isn't enough. All you have to do is look at the squad values of the teams in the top 4 to understand this.
« Last Edit: June 7, 2015, 06:00:40 pm by Halcyon Lissome »
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Our biggest issue with spending is how much Rodgers has wasted in transfer funds on the players that he wanted. As I mentioned, the TC has done a good job signing players. It's Brendan's hand picked players who have been expensive flops.

I am not sure that is true though the biggest problem for me is the lack of joined up thinking. Take Lovren for instance if you want him to play his natural game then you need a defensively solid athlete outside him who will cover when he pushes on trying to win the ball. Clearly Rodgers wanted Bertrand to be that player unfortunately the TC bought Moreno instead who is the complete opposite of what we needed outside Lovren.

You don't often get complete footballers and the key is often to get players that compliment each other. Whilst a TC might get you good individuals it is unlikely to get you a joined up vision and players that compliment each other. That is why I would rather have an experienced DoF who helps recruit the manager and then signs players who fit within the blueprint of the Club.
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