Topic: FSG (*)

[ToneLa]

Al mate, are you happy with our current league standing and chances this season?

[Narwin Dunez]

I don't understand how anyone could want us to spend MORE when we made a fucking loss.

Spend smarter - definitely. But the club/company is making a loss. We want to be self sustainable not another sugar daddy tumor on the testicle that is the Premier League.

[Eeyore]

We are in 4th place fourteen points of top place and out of all competitions. We are playing in a League that sees our top teams get humiliated in Europe whenever they face a top team.

So no I am not happy.

The really sad thing is that people even ask the question. It just shows how far standards have fallen.

Are we moving forwards or are the teams around us going backwards. We are up against teams like Arsenal and United that are pale imitations of the teams of the mid noughties. The same goes for City who have gone over the hill big time. Spurs and Chelsea are very well organised but nothing to write home about.

For me we should be doing much much better as was shown by our form in the first half of the season. The reality though is that we have a hugely expensive, hugely imbalanced squad that is high on effort but with very little world class talent.

The real indictment though is that Leicester have shown that you don't have to be anything special to win the League at the moment. We though are being brainwashed into thinking that putting up a real fight for top 4 is somehow an achievement.

[Narwin Dunez]

Would you agree that we've spent enough money, but it's not been spent smartly enough? And that expertise rather than effort/willingness is the problem?

[Eeyore]

Would you agree that we've spent enough money, but it's not been spent smartly enough? And that expertise rather than effort/willingness is the problem?

I agree completely Le Jake.

I have been banging on about it for years. Buy cheap buy twice. The problem though is that FSG came in with the pre-conceived idea that the best and brightest people didn't currently work in Football. They have constantly tried to re-invent the wheel instead of just recruiting top football people with the nous to take us forward.

The perfect example.

From JWH's open letter from 2012.

After almost two years at Anfield, we are close to having the system we need in place. The transfer window may not have been perfect but we are not just looking at the next 16 weeks until we can buy again: we are looking at the next 16 years and beyond. These are the first steps in restoring one of the world's great clubs to its proper status.

It will not be easy, it will not be perfect, but there is a clear vision at work.

We will build and grow from within, buy prudently and cleverly and never again waste resources on inflated transfer fees and unrealistic wages. We have no fear of spending and competing with the very best but we will not overpay for players.


For me they have good intentions and get a lot of the theory right but crucially they simply aren't capable of delivering those good intentions. For the love of god just bring in people with the ability to deliver instead of taking punts on the likes of Edwards.

[Eeyore]

Lol totally deluded, as per usual zero context in your post.

Context you don't even come up with content mate  .

Here is context since FSG's arrival we have been a permanent fixture in the list of the top ten richest Clubs on the planet. We haven't got close to performing at that level under FSG.

A year or two before FSG's arrival we were ranked the number one side in Europe now we are in 34th place. http://www.ecaeurope.com/tabbed-content/club-ranking/

CONTEXT.

[ToneLa]

When is Al EVER happy?

I'll let the man himself answer that... I'd guess he was last happy under Rafa?

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

I've been wondering for a while so I'll just ask: What does it mean if a topic is starred?

[ToneLa]

Thought it meant the mods are watching it?

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Thought it meant the mods are watching it?

don't they watch everything? 

[ToneLa]

maybe extra closely

[istvan kozma]

Context you don't even come up with content mate  .

Here is context since FSG's arrival we have been a permanent fixture in the list of the top ten richest Clubs on the planet. We haven't got close to performing at that level under FSG.

A year or two before FSG's arrival we were ranked the number one side in Europe now we are in 34th place. http://www.ecaeurope.com/tabbed-content/club-ranking/

CONTEXT.

Nothing in your post clarifies why going into this season, LFC should be finishing ahead of both Manchester Clubs and Arsenal. The fact you're rambling on about a year or 2 before FSG took over sums up my point about you hardly ever putting things into context when trying to make your point. Maybe you shouldn't be so 1 eyed when making an argument and try and use a bit of context, just a thought.

[Eeyore]

Nothing in your post clarifies why going into this season, LFC should be finishing ahead of both Manchester Clubs and Arsenal. The fact you're rambling on about a year or 2 before FSG took over sums up my point about you hardly ever putting things into context when trying to make your point. Maybe you shouldn't be so 1 eyed when making an argument and try and use a bit of context, just a thought.

What does 'Nothing in your post clarifies why going into this season, LFC should be finishing ahead of both Manchester Clubs and Arsenal.' actually mean.

[istvan kozma]

What does 'Nothing in your post clarifies why going into this season, LFC should be finishing ahead of both Manchester Clubs and Arsenal.' actually mean.

It means what it says.

[DangerScouse]

Context you don't even come up with content mate  .

Here is context since FSG's arrival we have been a permanent fixture in the list of the top ten richest Clubs on the planet. We haven't got close to performing at that level under FSG.

A year or two before FSG's arrival we were ranked the number one side in Europe now we are in 34th place. http://www.ecaeurope.com/tabbed-content/club-ranking/

CONTEXT.

Spot on Al. The value of their asset has improved hugely though so they'll be happy about that. Their equivalent of winning trophies I suspect.

[Eeyore]

It means what it says.

Context is having a wage bill of £201.8m in the 15/16 season and finishing 2 points behind West Ham, 3 points behind Southampton and 21 points behind Leicester.

Not chatting shit about finishing above both Manchester Clubs and Arsenal.

[istvan kozma]

Context is having a wage bill of £201.8m in the 15/16 season and finishing 2 points behind West Ham, 3 points behind Southampton and 21 points behind Leicester.

Not chatting shit about finishing above both Manchester Clubs and Arsenal.

Lol proving again you don't use context, what has the parts that I've bolded got to do with where LFC currently sit in the league this season?
Btw you claiming somebody else is 'chatting shit' is a shocking lack of self awareness.

[liverpool185]

A year or two before FSG's arrival we were ranked the number one side in Europe now we are in 34th place. http://www.ecaeurope.com/tabbed-content/club-ranking/

CONTEXT.

Sometimes when I read your posts I have to think to myself whether your actually being genuine or just coming up with this nonsense just for the sake of it.

When FSG arrived the whole club was destroyed on and off the pitch. You clearly do not understand how long it takes for a club to get back where it was and the time and effort to get it right, you think we can go from the brink of no club to back being the number one in Europe in a few years? 

You mention the likes of City, Chelsea, United, Arsenal and Spurs. Tell me when was the last time they had to deal with such horrific circumstances our club has had to go through? They have all had either unlimited money backing them or in United's and Arsenal's case they have been a stable club for years.

Leicester has shown fuck all to be honest, it was a 1 in a million absurd win.

Jurgen Klopp has said this season top 4 would be an achievement and is our main objective for the season, is he talking bollocks and brainwashing us? Judging by your comments you made about him yesterday I would of thought you agree he is talking bollocks.

We have no divine right to be the best anywhere these days, this isn't the 70's 80's anymore where we were buying the league, constantly breaking transfer records for players, splashing the cash. Their are clubs backed by some of the richest people in the world and clubs around Europe that are much more of a pull than we are, I don't think you realise that and you are stuck in the 70's and 80's and you think because of what we did in the past we some right to be number one. Football these days is probably the most competitive i have ever seen it.

If we get top 4 this season, it will be an achievement as we have only finished their once since the club got destroyed. Then we can start hopefully buying better players with the more income we will generate.

FSG have made mistakes but I feel they are doing the right things at the minute with the new stand and hiring a world class manager, think some slack should be due, but at the moment I think your more interested in fighting and want to protest over every little thing.

[Eeyore]

Lol proving again you don't use context, what has the parts that I've bolded got to do with where LFC currently sit in the league this season?
Btw you claiming somebody else is 'chatting shit' is a shocking lack of self awareness.

We sit 4th mate and are out of all competitions are you really suggesting that this is some kind of achievement ?

[liverpool185]

Even when we announced the new stand you had to come out with some nonsense about ''we'll see how it's financed before making a judgement'' that shows me that no matter what they do you will never be happy and will always be cynical about them.

[istvan kozma]

We sit 4th mate and are out of all competitions are you really suggesting that this is some kind of achievement ?

If you put things into context, (which you hardly ever do) LFC finishing the season with a CL place is a step forward.

[plura]

We sit 4th mate and are out of all competitions are you really suggesting that this is some kind of achievement ?

Well yes since the top goal for the season is top qualify for the CL in a top 4 position. So I'd say we're on track at least.
Obviously a shame that the cups didn't go that well this season. But ask anyone and it's always been to be in the top 4.

[Eeyore]

Sometimes when I read your posts I have to think to myself whether your actually being genuine or just coming up with this nonsense just for the sake of it.

When FSG arrived the whole club was destroyed on and off the pitch. You clearly do not understand how long it takes for a club to get back where it was and the time and effort to get it right, you think we can go from the brink of no club to back being the number one in Europe in a few years? 

I read your posts and one word comes to hyperbole. Destroyed on and off the pitch, that is absolute garbage mate. In 09-10 the season FSG took us over we were the 8th richest team in the World in terms of income. We had lost in a European semi final in extra time six months before they arrived. We had one major problem debt which was wiped out the moment the Club was sold.

From the appointment of Kenny in January 2011 to the end of the season we accrued the joint third most points in the League. That run included beating Chelsea at Stamford bridge as well as tonking City and United 3-0 and 3-1.

You mention the likes of City, Chelsea, United, Arsenal and Spurs. Tell me when was the last time they had to deal with such horrific circumstances our club has had to go through? They have all had either unlimited money backing them or in United's and Arsenal's case they have been a stable club for years.

Hyperbole again United stable, leveraged to death by the Glazers and changing their manager most seasons.

Leicester has shown fuck all to be honest, it was a 1 in a million absurd win.

Jurgen Klopp has said this season top 4 would be an achievement and is our main objective for the season, is he talking bollocks and brainwashing us? Judging by your comments you made about him yesterday I would of thought you agree he is talking bollocks.

We have no divine right to be the best anywhere these days, this isn't the 70's 80's anymore where we were buying the league, constantly breaking transfer records for players, splashing the cash. Their are clubs backed by some of the richest people in the world and clubs around Europe that are much more of a pull than we are, I don't think you realise that and you are stuck in the 70's and 80's and you think because of what we did in the past we some right to be number one. Football these days is probably the most competitive i have ever seen it.

If we get top 4 this season, it will be an achievement as we have only finished their once since the club got destroyed. Then we can start hopefully buying better players with the more income we will generate.

FSG have made mistakes but I feel they are doing the right things at the minute with the new stand and hiring a world class manager, think some slack should be due, but at the moment I think your more interested in fighting and want to protest over every little thing.

Again when did the Club get destroyed mate ?

Was it when we were getting 86 points in 08-09 and spanking Madrid in the CL.

[liverpool185]

Again when did the Club get destroyed mate ?

I suggest you read this and get yourself educated on the mess those two cowboys caused at this club... but as you said they didn't destroy the club, never heard such nonsense in my life, it's a border line parody act now from yourself, I think i'll leave this thread now because it's reached unrivaled levels of stupidity. 

[ToneLa]

We sit 4th mate and are out of all competitions are you really suggesting that this is some kind of achievement ?

Beats the shit out of being 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th

Al, mate, you don't sound happy with LFC. What drives you to post about FSG every single day? Are FSG really that bad to you?

[jambutty]

We sit 4th mate and are out of all competitions are you really suggesting that this is some kind of achievement ?

When you compare the world class players on the top 6 teams, we come up the shortest and the youngest.

We've pounded them all.

That's progress and achievement.

[oojason]

I suggest you read this and get yourself educated on the mess those two cowboys caused at this club... but as you said they didn't destroy the club, never heard such nonsense in my life, it's a border line parody act now from yourself, I think i'll leave this thread now because it's reached unrivaled levels of stupidity. 

I like Brian Reade - he's a good red and and a top man - but if you think anyone needs to read that slanted book to educate themselves on what really happened during those years you do really need to educate yourself (and have a look at Al's posts during that that time as well).

[IzeOfAnfield]

Can anyone really be shocked with how FSG have been handling the club during their tenure? They came in knowing pretty much nothing and have made some poor decisions, but slowly they're figuring it out. The club has come a seriously long way from Hodgson, and with  correct investment and Klopp at the helm I don't see how we won't be successful. While I think having oil money like Chelsea or Man City would certainly make Klopp's life easier in the transfer market, I think FSG has plenty of money for Klopp. He's not going to spend money for the sake of it and he's certainly cautious on transfers. No way he makes a mistake like taking a 16m flyer on Balotelli. If FSG let Klopp have free reign I don't think we'll have much to complain about on this front come next Fall.

[Eeyore]

When you compare the world class players on the top 6 teams, we come up the shortest and the youngest.

We've pounded them all.

That's progress and achievement.

Is it or is it just the case that the Premier League is incredibly weak. If we were regularly beating Ferguson's United with the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez in their pomp, or Mourinho's Chelsea with the likes of Makelele, Robben etc or hows about an Arsenal side with the likes of Henry, Bergkamp and Viera then yes it would be an achievement but we are not.

In the last six seasons in total English sides have only had a team get through to the last eight of the Champions League on five occasions. Less than 1 quarter finalists per season is frankly embarrassing and shows how poor this League is.

The other thing is you completely ignoring us getting beat by teams in relegation trouble, sneaking past Plymouth, getting knocked out of the FA Cup by Wolves at Anfield or getting beaten home and away in the League Cup by Southampton.

We have a real problem at the end of this season if we qualify for the Champions League. This season we have benefited massively from our lack of fixtures with not being in Europe. That is going to change hopefully we will be in the CL and playing twice a week for most of the season. We currently have a squad palpably short in terms of depth and hugely imbalanced.

The problem is double edged we need to recruit first team starters in a number of key positions as well as increasing the depth of the squad. This time there is no lottery ticket to cash in with a £65m Suarez, a £50m Torres or a £49m Sterling knocking about. We need major investment in the summer because we made a loss in the last accounts as well as having an incredibly high wage bill which gives us very little wiggle room.

Yes we will have increased TV revenues but so will our domestic competitors which will only push prices even higher with the huge wage increases being offered to Coutinho, Lallana and even Lovren.

So for there are a couple of things FSG can do loosen the purse strings by putting in the equity for the Main stand and to get back to the kind of scouting that allowed us to bring in really top players who are on the cusp of breaking through instead of paying well over the top for Prem proven players with good stats.

For me it is now make or break for FSG they have the manager they want, they have a real chance of getting on the CL gravy train almost by default. So we need to stop making excuses for them regarding lack of knowledge or even more bizarrely pretending they took over a basket case of a Club.

They have been here six and a half years now and have a truly exceptional opportunity to smash through the glass ceiling and compete with Europe's elite. Klopp has got the bottle for the fight have FSG ?

[NaivetyinBlack]

Well no one can say you aren't relentless.   

[ToneLa]

High wages = FSG are backing us financially!!
High Wages = sign we are failing since we aren't winning owt yet, FSG out!!

[jambutty]

The failing FSG.

Sounds like Trump's New York Times.

Seeing a record jump in subscriptions, btw.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

They're spending too little! They're spending too much! They're spending too little! They're spending too much! They're spending too little!


The same person is saying this.

I don't get it.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Ok Al. I see where you want to take this.

If you're unable to acknowledge that a good chunk of those increases came during the season and therefore will also be reflected in this seasons performance then not much left to discuss here.

This is mindboogling. There is no way Al doesn't understand this. It just doesn't fit in with his agenda.

Tying up your best players to set yourself up to push on for success in times to come is used as a stick to beat the owners with. That is utterly ridiculous.

[El Lobo]

This is mindboogling. There is no way Al doesn't understand this. It just doesn't fit in with his agenda.

Tying up your best players to set yourself up to push on for success in times to come is used as a stick to beat the owners with. That is utterly ridiculous.

Just let it die

It keeps dropping, just let it get relegated to the second page!!

[redk84]

I have been banging on about it for years. Buy cheap buy twice. The problem though is that FSG came in with the pre-conceived idea that the best and brightest people didn't currently work in Football. They have constantly tried to re-invent the wheel instead of just recruiting top football people with the nous to take us forward.

Hesitant to get into all this but it's hard not too agree with the above, or Al's overall frustration.

We all want Liverpool to be competing at the top surely, I think we're heading that way with Klopp but Al's concerns on whether he'll be backed in the market appropriately I can understand.

If we have the opportunity to obtain the right players for our club they will need paying the big bucks straight away otherwise they won't come. And what this team needs is some serious star talent injected into it. In my opinion, and I'm not talking wholesale changes even.

But if Klopp actually prefers buying only cheaper players, or "value for money" if that;s what its called well......this route to the top is gonna be long and there's gonna have to be patience.

Cos what's said in front of a microphone in front of journalists is always the god's honest truth right? (But I guess that's all we have to go on)

One thing for sure is that Klopp must now be at a stage where he is completely sure of who he wants gone from this set of players and what sort of players he wants in. I really do hope whoever we get in isn't judged too harshly off the bat but there is such a massive light shining on our recruitment at the moment, more so than in recent history that I think our recruitment will be very interesting this summer.

Every other day the Echo or someone in the press is mouthing off about how we are going to spend and spend big etc. So..............let's see

[El Lobo]

Hesitant to get into all this but it's hard not too agree with the above, or Al's overall frustration.

Al doesn't have an overall frustration, Al has a very obvious agenda against the owners which seeps into literally every aspect of him supporting the club. Its why the vast majority of his thousands of posts have been slating FSG. And its worded very well, and occasionally makes a fair point, but its dragged down by the fact that there is literally nothing these owners could do for him not to slag them off. Which makes any debate absolutely redundant because he's absolutely anchored to this belief that FSG are only in it for the money, don't care about the club, don't know about football, don't know about sports, and he knows exactly what is needed to make us successful again.

Everyone should be frustrated generally over the last seven years, because we've missed opportunities. But constantly going back to the past, again and again, and whinging about things that happened five years ago is absolutely pointless. We've moving forward, and this thread is just a haven for people who are generally negative, pessimistic supporters and has contributed to a pretty large wave of negativity spreading over the forum over the last six months or so.

[DangerScouse]

 We've moving forward, and this thread is just a haven for people who are generally negative, pessimistic supporters and has contributed to a pretty large wave of negativity spreading over the forum over the last six months or so.

Disingenuous nonsense.

This thread sparked into life the week we were effectively knocked out of 3 competitions, a situation which warranted a discussion on the depth of our squad and consequently spending and transfer policy, a situation that is directly linked to our absentee owners.

I know plenty of fans who are somewhat disillusioned to different degrees with the owners ambitions and their long term plans for the club. You can try and disparage such people all you like, but those feelings are justified in my eyes.

[Dave D]

I’m not sure why people highlighting the massive increase in the wage bill should be seen as a bad thing. Unless we’re paying Jürgen £20m per year or £20m for joining us, it can’t be simply explained away. If some people see that as an attack on FSG and their inability to run a successful club or business, so be it.

I remember the days of Moore and parry on this forum. I remember the things that were said about them. Things that would have FSG crying themselves to sleep at night were merely laughed off on this and every other forum because that’s the way it was, that’s the way it always was. The fans would rip into whoever the current owner, chairman or suit on the board without a second thought.

That however all changed with the introduction of hicks and gillett. Millions spent on PR and an attempt to influence opinion across all media resulted in fans turning on each other. The naivety of some fans, combined with the shills and PR representatives constant muddying of the waters with every issue, allowed the shit stains to continue in their position a lot longer than they should have. Their attempts to influence as many journalists, bloggers, podcasters and forum moderators, resulted in the blame being focused on the manager at the time. The end result being Rafa was fucked out of the club before the parasites.

http://www.prweek.com/article/634373/news-analysis-americans-wooed-liverpool

Despite being rushed, the takeover was a major PR success.

Vero Communications managing director Mike Lee, who has been advising Liverpool since last November, says: ‘From a comms perspective, the key was to manage the story that changed direction in the midst of the takeover. The success was to create a positive feel throughout despite some difficult moments.'
Gillett and Hicks' ‘belief in sport' and past achievements were emphasised, as was their financial clout.

The team also highlighted the strength of Gillett and Hicks as a unit, to pre-empt any claims they would not work together. Local newspapers and Liverpool fans were targeted as a matter of priority.

On the day of the deal, the Americans provided a PR masterclass.

Gillett and Hicks revealed details of conversations they had already had with local heroes such as Steven Gerrard. Meanwhile, Liverpool pumped out the message that ‘this is in the club's best interest', and the majority of fans - perhaps tired of the three-year wait for new owners -were happy to believe it.

The Liverpool Echo and official Liverpool FC website ran exclusive interviews with Gillett and Hicks following the announcement of their purchase to the London Stock Exchange.

Desperate to convince everyone that the club was in safe hands, this was their big chance to be believed – and they knew it.

‘Gillett’s winsome soundbite was one of several designed to reassure supporters that respect for Liverpool FC’s heritage was riding tandem with the duo’s sporting passion and business acumen.

A few years later, not much changed. NESV rode into town with dollar signs in their eyes and dreams of stealing a sports franchise. While they were busy telling us “We’re not going to have a lot to say, our actions will hopefully speak for us.” They were also hiring PR firms to portray them in a positive light. The exact same firm hicks and gillett hired, second time is the charm I guess.

http://www.verocom.co.uk/case-studies/fenway-sports-group-liverpool-fc/

To help ensure NESV's takeover of Liverpool FC was seen by local, national and international media and stakeholders as positive for the Club. Position NESV as an organisation that can be trusted, is credible and has a compelling vision for the Club's future.

Same shit, different names. It appears that for a lot of people these days, they only need to be told that they’re the prettiest girl in the room to have their heads turned by slick PR.

It doesn’t matter who our owners are or who our owners will be in the future. They will always be held to account and they will always be questioned when the accounts throw up concerns.

If they don’t wish to address these concerns, then we can only go by what we currently have in front of us. Which certainly doesn’t paint them in a positive light.

[CraigDS]

It doesn’t matter who our owners are or who our owners will be in the future. They will always be held to account and they will always be questioned when the accounts throw up concerns.

If they don’t wish to address these concerns, then we can only go by what we currently have in front of us. Which certainly doesn’t paint them in a positive light.

The problem is you've no fucking idea what the accounts show. You've zero idea if it is a concern or not. You've seen a rise and you want answers, not that you're really entitled to them, or in any position to need an answer to them.

What next, a demand to know how much we're paying for tea bags? What rate we're paying for leccy at Melwood? Just how much fabric softener they're using on the players socks?