Topic: Liverpool 0 - Real Madrid 3 FT

[El Lobo]

I agree with this. For me the problem isn't being outplayed by Madrid, they were sensational to be honest, it's the fact that we made basic defensive mistakes yet again.

Make no mistake though, had we played as we did last night against pretty much 90% of Premier League teams, we would have won.

You think?

If we'd gifted City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton or Southampton the goals we did last night I can't see how that side would then have scored three goals required to win. That's less than 90%

For me we've got to get Manquillo or Flanno into the side at RB. For now I think we're frankly stuck with Skrtel, Lovren and Mignolet but Sakho MUST come back in when he's fit and a new keeper is a must in January. CM should be Hendo, Can and Allen but we all know Stevie isn't getting dropped so three of the four works. And then two of Sterling, Coutinho and Lallana. And I don't honestly think we've got much choice now but to try Borini up top.

[Funky_Gibbons]

This I think comes down to more than just Mario. He clearly isn't suited to playing the lone role - he just isn't. Perhaps we're trying to change him and yes, we've seen signs of him adapting somewhat (chasing back, closing down etc) but it will take time to change a player's natural game.

Maybe we should play Sterling up with him. Maybe Gerrard should play off of him now Can seems to be available again after injury and could slot into the CM spot further back. Perhaps we should give Borini some minutes up there with him. I think it's particularly unfair of the fans and especially the media to keep on singling out Balotelli for criticism despite us seemingly not trying to adapt to him a bit and give him some help up top - we can't just expect him to change his game totally over night and slot into our way of playing, we should be helping him.

It's more of a failing on our part to adequately address the departure of Suarez. Perhaps we can get Origi back in January, who knows, but without Sturridge our lack of attacking threat is pretty woeful.

You say he doesn't suit a lone striker role but he has had more shots per game than any other striker in the Premier League and he has missed some fairly clear chances during that time.

He also had a chance to play in Sterling when the score was 0-0 but decided to try and take on a defender so how will playing with a partner help him if he deosn't use them?

[Tom_B]

You think?

If we'd gifted City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton or Southampton the goals we did last night I can't see how that side would then have scored three goals required to win. That's less than 90%

For me we've got to get Manquillo or Flanno into the side at RB. For now I think we're frankly stuck with Skrtel, Lovren and Mignolet but Sakho MUST come back in when he's fit and a new keeper is a must in January. CM should be Hendo, Can and Allen but we all know Stevie isn't getting dropped so three of the four works. And then two of Sterling, Coutinho and Lallana. And I don't honestly think we've got much choice now but to try Borini up top.

The first goal was a gift? I don't think so. Even the second one, although poor defensively, relied on a perfect header. The third was like Villa again.

My point is really that had we played like we did in the first 15-20 minutes, we would already be ahead, and the game would be different.

[Kopite B205]

The morning after the night before.....I haven't felt this gutted for a long time.

[El Lobo]

The first goal was a gift? I don't think so. Even the second one, although poor defensively, relied on a perfect header. The third was like Villa again.

My point is really that had we played like we did in the first 15-20 minutes, we would already be ahead, and the game would be different.

Nah the first was excellent build up and a great finish, but still should have been defended a lot better. But that's why I said we'd need three to win, not four. The second was a good header but the build up was scandalously poor defending from probably half a dozen players. And the third just speaks for itself. We're playing a side with a front six that cost well in excess of £200 million, they didn't need gifts.

We created some nice moments and probably should have had a goal or two, but then I fear if we had they'd have just turned up the gas and could quite easily have got another couple. But defensively right now we're so all over the shop that we're going to give any side in the division a chance, not just good ones. If we don't decide on a settled back four, and ditch the consistent under performers, there's no way it's suddenly going to change.

[liverressie]

Imagine if it had been Gerrard doing it. Nobody would have given a flying f***!

Absolute nonsense to make such a big deal out of it. Just have Brendan tell him off and leave it at that.

Agenda-driven bollocks at its finest

Yes! that's very true! In addition, it makes things funnier as it takes 2 players in action for swapping shirt. However, only 1 of them being blamed and being talked about in news headline.

If I didnt watch the game, I would think Balo swapping his shirt with himself!

[harryc]

One of the glaring differences last night was our lack of pace last night in midfield, Apart from Raheem when ever we had the ball and tried to break we just looked ponderous.

Oh yeah and our technical ability to control the ball was on a different level to Real but maybe when your shot of confidence that's no great surprise.

[stonty]

Dodgy keeper, clueless back-four & a square-peg upfront.
Rinse & repeat ,, rinse & repeat

[hollger]

We looked a bit shit at times, but the first two goals there's a handful of players in the world who score them. People going on like Jamie Vardy and the like will score them against us every week. The set piece one is an issue as ever, it seems we have no luck in that respects though, the ball always seems to end up bouncing around in our box for some reason. After that we attacked when we could, we also then got counter attacked by the best counter attacking team on the planet. I was gutted we lost but people need to be not writing everything off now

Agreed, I think that Kroos should have been closed down prior to him sending the cross to Benzema but it's not like it was just slung in and hope for the best. He played in a quality cross and the header was just sublime. Johnson is guilty of not doing more to prevent it, but it's still not an easy finish.

The third goal I think was as much unlucky as it was poor defending. I mean the ball hits Pepe in the lower face/shoulder and could have gone anywhere, but he then manages to react quicker than Skrtel who's coming down from his attempt at clearing the cross. Mignolet comes out and spreads himself (perhaps he should dive in with his hands?) but it's just not enough.

They were clearly easing off in the second half and we seemed to do a lot better, but they still could and should have had a 4th (Ronaldo), perhaps a 5th (Rodriguez).

The reality is that we're not quite good enough to compete with the likes of these teams yet. We've been out of the CL for years and our manager was taking charge of his what, 3rd European fixture against one of the finest managers around and one of the top few teams in world football. We've played 8 league games and a few more cup/European matches since we lost the 3rd best striker in the world, integrating a lot of new (and young) players and coping with injury to one half of most of our goals from last year, along with players like Allen and Can.

There are clearly areas we need to work on. The manager knows this, he admits it in his press conferences and interviews - hopefully things actually get done and we start to look more solid at the back as the season goes on. Rodgers isn't a fool.

[creed111]

I think more than the result itself that is getting people is two things

1) The seemingly inherent, systematic flaws that have been noticeable since Brendan's 1st year.

2) The fact that we just watched James and Kroos perform sonnets on our patch, mere months after joining Real. Meanwhile we see Markovic, Balotelli and to lesser extents Moreno and Lovren barely make an impact, and it leaves you wandering. I rate in one way or another every player we got this summer, but after FINALLY having the allure of CL football back it hurts knowing we didn't go get one superstar. After missing out on Costa, Mckhitryan and Willian last summer. One massive reason I wanted CL back last season so we can finally have the pull to attract top players in their prime. We failed to do that I feel. Fabregas, Costa, Mandzukic, Rakitic, Sanchez, and Kroos have all moved and slotted in seamlessly

On a side note: what I thought we did well last summer was balance our purchases between promise ans veteran. Luis Alberto... then the 27 year old Iago. Sakho... but also Toure. This summer I felt we missed that crucial balance.

[hollger]

You say he doesn't suit a lone striker role but he has had more shots per game than any other striker in the Premier League and he has missed some fairly clear chances during that time.

He also had a chance to play in Sterling when the score was 0-0 but decided to try and take on a defender so how will playing with a partner help him if he deosn't use them?

More shots per game doesn't mean he suits a particular role though, does it? Where are those shots from? Does that count free kicks? Blocked shots? Anyway, stats don't really mean a thing when it's clear to see that Balotelli isn't suited to being the focal point of an attack. Brendan's said as much as does the man himself  in interviews since joining us. I read one when he was at Milan (in World Soccer, I think it was from) where he said the same thing - "I prefer to play with a partner". He's not the kind of player who thrives on chasing balls over the top, he likes to link play and move it around the spaces - see his interchange with Gerrard recently, for example.

Agreed though, he does make some poor decisions. However many strikers (including Suarez) are guilty of the same, doesn't mean that determines they're a better for a particular role.

[mabbympb]

I didnt realise how much better man for man their players would be. Touch, passing, movement, fitness, pressing, pace, finishing. Best team i have seen play.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

still pissed at that shirt swop

fucking waster

It's a non-incident blown up so the media can have some bollocks to hit us with.

A more productive idea would be to look at our shocking defence and see how to fix it, but that doesn't sell papers and get knickers all a-twist so no-one's arsed.

[paulrazor]

It's a non-incident blown up so the media can have some bollocks to hit us with.

A more productive idea would be to look at our shocking defence and see how to fix it, but that doesn't sell papers and get knickers all a-twist so no-one's arsed.

it was bad form

im as pissed at the defence as anyone. i just posted in that thread about it. for the amount of money spent on it we look ripped off. its had some significant investment in recent years and fuck all to show for it. its gotten worse

[stevied]

Thought Madrid were absolute class, they did what they needed to do in the first half and cruised the second half, me, i would give Mignolet a rest we need to change something at the back, if its a communication thing then we need to change something, i like Mignolet but this is getting worse by the week, if Sakho was fit i would drop one of Skertl or Lovren not sure which one either, it just needs a shake up, Johnson shouldnt be first choice anymore, off the pace and his threat going forward seems to have gone, other than that i dont see we can do too much , oh and up front, show Balo the door, tell Lambert he is playing every week and giove the flair players someone who shows for them and is a threat in the box

[Caffeine]

How come everyone in the squad gets rotated except the guy who needs it most? Headscratcher.

[L666KOP]

On the shirt swap.

It only hurts because we were getting bummed, and Mario has had a poor start.

I don't believe that Brendan didn't know at the time, not for one minute. I've been in the dressing room a few times, it's not a huge place, there's no way Mario sneaks in with no shirt on, and a white one in his hands.

If Pepe asks him for a swap, Mario should just tell him to hang on while they get down the tunnel, or tell him "after the game".

He's naïve.

He may even have known he was being subbed, it might well have been the end of 'his game'.

I will say though, if I was manager, in exactly the same position, I'd have subbed him for doing it. It's not something I want to see.

But like others have said, it's certainly not the biggest problem, not by a long stretch.

[RedSoc]

On the shirt swap.

It only hurts because we were getting bummed, and Mario has had a poor start.

I don't believe that Brendan didn't know at the time, not for one minute. I've been in the dressing room a few times, it's not a huge place, there's no way Mario sneaks in with no shirt on, and a white one in his hands.

If Pepe asks him for a swap, Mario should just tell him to hang on while they get down the tunnel, or tell him "after the game".

He's naïve.

He may even have known he was being subbed, it might well have been the end of 'his game'.

I will say though, if I was manager, in exactly the same position, I'd have subbed him for doing it. It's not something I want to see.

But like others have said, it's certainly not the biggest problem, not by a long stretch.

If people are going to hang Mario out to dry over the shirt swap, I think we should also look at the likes of Johnson, smiling and chummying it up with Ronaldo.
Its not the same thing, but its not the attitude I want to see from our players in a 'must not lose' game.

[Ron]

How come everyone in the squad gets rotated except the guy who needs it most? Headscratcher.

Maybe because Sturridge is injured ?

[TSC]

Haven't seen us involved in such a one sided first half since Istanbul.  Unfortunately there was no 2nd half miracle.  That was the disappointing aspect.  Madrid toyed with us 2nd half.  Maybe they were under orders from Ancelotti to do so because of the game at the weekend, or maybe simply out of respect for LFC. 

We've big problems all over the pitch.  Can't score, can't stop conceding, a midfield which is a bit meh and changes every game.  It's chalk and cheese compared to last season. 

What we can't afford to do of course is lose v Hull on Saturday.  Need to get a win to keep things from snowballing because I'm sure a defeat in that manner in front of a hopeful if not expectant kop last night will have hurt both players and manager.  I hope it has anyway.

[sushared]

getting a strong feeling one team with 6 points might get out of the grp with Basel beaten yesterday. so might be Rodgers has to park a bus in Madrid and Bulgaria to get the 2nd place.

[Purdy]

The shirt swap is bad and I'm sure will never happen again but some of the things he is being called is fucking pathetic, didn't Phil and Sakho do the same with Chelsea players last year? That's worse in my eyes, utter fucking scum that club

[L666KOP]

If people are going to hang Mario out to dry over the shirt swap, I think we should also look at the likes of Johnson, smiling and chummying it up with Ronaldo.
Its not the same thing, but its not the attitude I want to see from our players in a 'must not lose' game.

Yep.

Again, not something I want to see.

For parts of the game last night it looked to me like the players were playing the occasion rather than the team in front of them.

[TSC]

If people are going to hang Mario out to dry over the shirt swap, I think we should also look at the likes of Johnson, smiling and chummying it up with Ronaldo.
Its not the same thing, but its not the attitude I want to see from our players in a 'must not lose' game.

Why was Johnson even on?  Is Manquillo injured?

[L666KOP]

Haven't seen us involved in such a one sided first half since Istanbul.  Unfortunately there was no 2nd half miracle.  That was the disappointing aspect.  Madrid toyed with us 2nd half. Maybe they were under orders from Ancelotti to do so because of the game at the weekend, or maybe simply out of respect for LFC. 

We've big problems all over the pitch.  Can't score, can't stop conceding, a midfield which is a bit meh and changes every game.  It's chalk and cheese compared to last season. 

What we can't afford to do of course is lose v Hull on Saturday.  Need to get a win to keep things from snowballing because I'm sure a defeat in that manner in front of a hopeful if not expectant kop last night will have hurt both players and manager.  I hope it has anyway.

Sad, but true.

We huffed and puffed a bit, but they kept us at arms length quite easily. If anyone looked likely to score it was them.
I'd venture a guess that had Madrid no game at the weekend they could have really embarrassed us. They did their warm down in the second half.

A shit defence, and no cutting edge are not the flaws to your game that will result in anything but being taught a lesson against the likes of Madrid.

[Upinsmoke]

Feelings this morning? Proud of some individuals, they gave there all, the ones that keep costing us though? Well I'm sure they are trying there best, but it's not good enough for lfc, one good play doesn't even up a bad one that keeps resulting in goals conceded, that's not how it works. Mignolet did some good things last night, then he throws it out the window. Johnson halted Ronaldo a few times, just to switch off (more than switch off, he just doesn't bother) and look at benzema four times and let's him have a free header.

These are players that keep making mistakes, over and over again.

I keep to-ing and fro-ing in my head between: is it the system at fault, is it individuals? “ I can't make up my mind. What is clear though, we conceded 43 goals on Brendan's first season, with a centre half pairing of Jamie Carragher/Skrtel and Agger with Pepe Reina in goal.

Now Skrtel got dropped midway through the season because he was atrocious (still better than he has been since carragher retired though). And Jamie played alongside Agger I think.
Come the end of the season Jamie retires and Reina isn't wanted and goes on loan to Napoli. Okay we say, we bring in Sakho and Kolo and Mignolet. We might do better, younger legs and a keeper who just kept Sunderland up. We concede more goals, own goals, calamities than were used to seeing, but at the same time Mignolet is still making good shot stopping saves and Skrtel is scoring at both ends.

This summer we sign Lovren (not including full backs here as they aren't as much as a problem) for a further 20m, this doesn't solve the issue Skrtel has in general play as Lovren preferred position is left centre back. We also fucked off Agger and let Reina go permanently.

We're on course for an even worse defensive record. We've spent a lot of money, got worse, and fucked legends off just to get there. Not making much sense this.

Agger is better than any ball playing centre half we have, Reina is better than Mignolet at distribution, because we keep surrendering possession back to the opposition with these little chipped balls out to the wing, or we will pass it round our own area playing risky for Mignolet to hoof it anyway.

We've regressed massively at the back, a combination of poor players and poor management in that area.

[Gnurglan]

But I can't stop thinking that someone like Rafa would have laid a trap for them.

For all Brendan's strengths he us still a junior in terms of experience at the top level.

Rodgers has a different approach to the game. But let's compare with Real Madrid. If they had to, they'd be able to play a compact game and keep it tight at the back. On other days, they can control the ball and dominate the game. Like yesterday. We can perhaps do the latter, but while they have two options, we only seem to have one. When we're the better side, it works. When we're not, we're picked apart.
It's surprising to me, because Rodgers has shown an ability to adapt. Players have improved under him and he found a way to utilise Suarez' strengths, which transformed him into a world class player. Yet, when we talk defence, or our defensive game, we seem to go from bad to worse. During the first season, it wasn't a real worry. We were changing our approach and were bound to make some mistakes. Last season we had a fantastic attack that solved the problem for us. Now? It's like we're back where we started and it doesn't feel right.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Why was Johnson even on?  Is Manquillo injured?

He has far more experience in Europe and in general.
I know he's lots of people's least favourite but it's not a bizarre choice or anything really.
Asking Manquillo to keep Ronaldo quiet is a big ask for a very young lad who has less than 10 games for us.
Johnson should theoretically have been the right choice.
Problem is, he's not a thoery, he's reality and that comes with brainfarts aplenty these days.

[RedSoc]

Why was Johnson even on?  Is Manquillo injured?

Johnson seems to have a divine right to play when 70 percent fit. As does Allen. I'm not a fan of either.

We are in danger of writing off 16 million quid with this rubbish about Balotelli though. He is not the player I would have signed, Cavani should have been bought as a priority no matter the cost, and Balotelli as a supplementry striker.

Either way, singling out a shirt swap when we should be concentrating on why Rodgers persists with ignoring Lucas, doesn't seem to have any tactics or game plan etc.
We have bigger problems than Balotelli..

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

If people are going to hang Mario out to dry over the shirt swap, I think we should also look at the likes of Johnson, smiling and chummying it up with Ronaldo.
Its not the same thing, but its not the attitude I want to see from our players in a 'must not lose' game.

Same thing as I thought. I actually said to my mate how do we know Brendan hasn't said to Mario your coming off and thought it was the best time to do it. He was wrong either way, but I mean its not the end of the world, and to be fair who the fuck comes back from 3 nil down in the champions league?!

[DonkeyWan]

It's a non-incident blown up so the media can have some bollocks to hit us with.

A more productive idea would be to look at our shocking defence and see how to fix it, but that doesn't sell papers and get knickers all a-twist so no-one's arsed.

Innit. Who gives an honest to god shit whether he swapped shirts at half-time or full-time? They all get two anyway, they all change their shirt at half time so they are not running out with a wet top.

[Jookie]

Dodgy keeper, clueless back-four & a square-peg upfront.
Rinse & repeat ,, rinse & repeat

you missed out no proper defensive midfielder to protect our dodgy defence

and lack of goals from midfield.

Apart from that you nailed it.

[AB LFC]

Why not start with Lallana in the first place? We needed a fast energetic start and we got it but we needed an end product and Balotelli was hopeless yet again, slowing down our play completely. Another fail for Rodgers. As mentioned before, he is tactically naive far too much.

[Caston]

Ben Smith ‏@BenSmithBBC  45 seconds ago
Coutinho swapped shirts with Oscar and Sakho with Eto'o at half-time v #CFC last season. Clearly wrong but Balotelli a convenient scapegoat

[DonkeyWan]

Ben Smith ‏@BenSmithBBC  45 seconds ago
Coutinho swapped shirts with Oscar and Sakho with Eto'o at half-time v #CFC last season. Clearly wrong but Balotelli a convenient scapegoat

Good, glad somebody has said it.

Focus on the shit defence Rodgers, not the misfiring striker. Misfiring strikers don't win games. Shit defenders lose games.

[hollger]

So I presume then, Mr Ben Smith, that your BBC Sport department will be changing it's front page to reflect that?

Nah, thought not.

[rob1408]

Ben Smith ‏@BenSmithBBC  45 seconds ago
Coutinho swapped shirts with Oscar and Sakho with Eto'o at half-time v #CFC last season. Clearly wrong but Balotelli a convenient scapegoat

Balotelli's crime was getting caught by the cameras, I imagine quite a few players swap shirts at halftime.  Personally, I don't like it, but it's probably quite common.

[Purdy]

Good, glad somebody has said it.

Focus on the shit defence Rodgers, not the misfiring striker. Misfiring strikers don't win games. Shit defenders lose games.

Did Rodgers not say it himself after the match and he would deal with it the same way?

[plura]

Why not start with Lallana in the first place? We needed a fast energetic start and we got it but we needed an end product and Balotelli was hopeless yet again, slowing down our play completely. Another fail for Rodgers. As mentioned before, he is tactically naive far too much.

Yes! Why start like we did, the high pressing, etc with one player we all know is not suited for that type of play at all. In another formation/tactic he can make sense, but yesterday!? Nah.

[CLOCKSPEED]

"Mario Balotelli was hauled off at the break having swapped shirts with Pepe as he left the field (we don’t know whether the two were related). His antics may prove a handy distraction for Rodgers but they are just that: a distraction."