Author Topic: So the commercial office of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh  (Read 102425 times)

Offline CraigDS

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #640 on: October 17, 2014, 02:58:59 pm »
If I were to say READ THE FUCKING THREAD CRAIG - would that be classed as sniping?

 ;D

I think it's clear that I've read the thread, however I'm confused why you'd actually MAKE someone travel 5 hours a day to do their job just so they live in Liverpool.

Do you get annoyed that Gerrard, Dalglish, Hansen, Rodgers live (lives?) in Southport and not Liverpool?

Offline Latenight Surfer

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #641 on: October 17, 2014, 02:59:19 pm »


The fans in Singapore - or a huge swathe of them at any rate - love the club with a fanatical devotion. I don't begin to fathom it but it is clearly - and very touchingly - the case.



I don't care what your opinion is about this office being in London and I cannot understand as to why this argument is still continuing. But I am certainly able to understand that there is some disturbance with this decision and some people along with you are not happy with it which is fine by me as I read these posts and try to understand the emotion behind it. Clear.

But what you just said shows a lack of respect to me and people like me who do not have to prove anything to anyone regarding why and how we support our team. If you cannot understand people like me and why or how we support our team then it is your problem because I have met people from the city of Liverpool they showed me how wonderful it can be if we joined hands and people like you are not going to change my opinion about the city or it's people.

BTW I am not from Singapore or Thailand or a guy who sits with his fat ass on an armchair in front of his T.V munching popcorn and tweeting simultaneously while watching the match, but I am a red who cannot go to Anfield on a regular basis during match days not because he won't but because he can't. So.. DO.NOT.SAY.THAT.AGAIN.
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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #642 on: October 17, 2014, 03:17:26 pm »
I don't care what your opinion is about this office being in London and I cannot understand as to why this argument is still continuing. But I am certainly able to understand that there is some disturbance with this decision and some people along with you are not happy with it which is fine by me as I read these posts and try to understand the emotion behind it. Clear.

But what you just said shows a lack of respect to me and people like me who do not have to prove anything to anyone regarding why and how we support our team. If you cannot understand people like me and why or how we support our team then it is your problem because I have met people from the city of Liverpool they showed me how wonderful it can be if we joined hands and people like you are not going to change my opinion about the city or it's people.

BTW I am not from Singapore or Thailand or a guy who sits with his fat ass on an armchair in front of his T.V munching popcorn and tweeting simultaneously while watching the match, but I am a red who cannot go to Anfield on a regular basis during match days not because he won't but because he can't. So.. DO.NOT.SAY.THAT.AGAIN.

Help

 ;D


Latenight here's my response to an earlier misinterpretation of what I said

 
Were my comments intended as snide and condescending then your criticism might have carried some justification. As it was what I said was genuine and heartfelt. I do not understand the level of devotion for a football club 5,000 miles distant. However, I know such devotion is for the most part manifestly genuine and heartfelt and I do find it very moving to witness it from afar.



Nobody has any fucking thing to prove to me. The fact I don't understand such things is simply because I've never had to, since I was born and bred a Liverpudlian. That in no way means I do not accept the devotion of those such as yourself or rate it as any better or worse than my own devotion. In many respects it's actually to be admired more I guess since you hardly ever get to see the team in the flesh.

Can this be the last of these false accusations please.

 :)

Offline 4pool

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #643 on: October 17, 2014, 03:21:01 pm »
Timbo:

Your "discussion"  :D over Hogan should office in Liverpool because that is where we are, that is where we are based, along with the ancillary "discussion" over loss of jobs from Liverpool...

Why can't you make a similar stand on having Club Shops outside Liverpool?

We are based in Liverpool, always sold our merchandise from Liverpool ( i've ordered stuff from there for ages) , have warehouses full of stuff to ship Worldwide. Yet, your ok with setting up shop where the customers are?

And as I posted before, the club have free worldwide shipping which they are running right now. http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/172568-free-worldwide-delivery-online-now So no need for shops outside L postal code is there?

Why is a commercial office any different to club shops?

The core of Liverpool FC is still in Liverpool.

Since David "only sell the family silverware once" Moores sold to H&G, we became a club based in the Cayman Islands run in Dallas and Colorado. Now we're owned and run from Boston.

But the core is and always will be based in Liverpool. I don't think we'll ever be any different no matter what the money men do. We are Liverpool Football Club and everyone knows we're based in Liverpool no matter an office in London or one at 82 Brookline Avenue, Boston, MA 02215.



Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #644 on: October 17, 2014, 03:21:41 pm »
Do you get annoyed that Gerrard, Dalglish, Hansen, Rodgers live (lives?) in Southport and not Liverpool?

Sefton is merseyside (greater liverpool), same with rafa on the Wirral.
Gerrard is formby isn't he? So that's even closer.

And to be honest I'm not really arsed that ballotelli has got a house in Msnchester or collymore lived with his ma in staffordshire (players come & go)  It's the office and the executive position that's important. It matters. It sets a precedent. what happens when the hot-shot head of media wants to run LFC tv out of the same office? how can billy turn him down?



Offline CraigDS

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #645 on: October 17, 2014, 03:25:29 pm »
Sefton is merseyside (greater liverpool), same with rafa on the Wirral.
Gerrard is formby isn't he? So that's even closer.

And to be honest I'm not really arsed that ballotelli has got a house in Msnchester or collymore lived with his ma in staffordshire (players come & go)  It's the office and the executive position that's important. It matters. It sets a precedent. what happens when the hot-shot head of media wants to run LFC tv out of the same office? how can billy turn him down?

I was more being facetious with the player locations.

It sets no precedent other than employees living and working where it is best for the CLUB. Hence why those who manage and work in the Dublin club store live and work in Dublin. Those who manage the Thai social media channels live and work in Thailand.

Timbo said he doesn't care if Hogan has to travel every day to London to do his job, he should live and be based in Liverpool. I'm simply pointing out that it's a little ridiculous to have that view IF to do his job to the best of his ability he is best placed working in London.

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #646 on: October 17, 2014, 03:26:46 pm »
My bad,


Please stop saying this...it makes my teeth hurt
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #647 on: October 17, 2014, 03:28:45 pm »
Please stop saying this...it makes my teeth hurt

Sorry, my bad.

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #648 on: October 17, 2014, 03:31:57 pm »
I get all that. The point remains: selling corporate sponsorship and investment at all does not fit that ethos. Either we don't bother with such capitalist commercial activities, or it doesn't matter if it's done from the moon. Fuck it, we're sponsored by a bank; not a co-operative credit union.

I am with you on the emotional core of this issue.  However, I think we get caught up in language and where we get our information from.

We need to challenge the idea that selling corporate sponsorship and investment are contrary to our core values.  They do not have to be.
Second, it is a mistake to set up an either/or scenario with our business activities.  Seeking profit and doing so by retaining our values are interdependent upon one another.  We need a balance of capital's hubris to pursue profit with a healthy dose of community loyalty, and recognition of cultural values of the club.  When one is elevated too far, the other suffer mightily.  Each requires the resistance of the other to work well. 

Lastly, I could not agree more with our sponsorship.... Standard chartered is nothing to align with really ----> especially after money laundering relationships with Iranians and many examples of malfeasance over the past decade.  This leads us to my biggest point of contention.  We, as supporters, cannot throw up our hands and say fuck it.   It matters.   

And we see the effects of these decisions every day if we look close enough.
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Offline kavah

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #649 on: October 17, 2014, 03:32:42 pm »
Timbo:

Your "discussion"  :D over Hogan should office in Liverpool because that is where we a





How can he best represent our city when he doesn't know the first thing about it?

If you were asked to do the same thing wouldn't you want to live there? Experience it? Meet the people? Go to melwood, town on a Friday, Kirkby, halewood, Birkenhead. Walk up oakfield road on a non-match day and think about what this club is all about? Frankly I'm embarrassed for the fella not wanting any of that.

Offline Latenight Surfer

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #650 on: October 17, 2014, 03:36:26 pm »
Help

 ;D


Latenight here's my response to an earlier misinterpretation of what I said

 
Nobody has any fucking thing to prove to me. The fact I don't understand such things is simply because I've never had to, since I was born and bred a Liverpudlian. That in no way means I do not accept the devotion of those such as yourself or rate it as any better or worse than my own devotion. In many respects it's actually to be admired more I guess since you hardly ever get to see the team in the flesh.

Can this be the last of these false accusations please.

 :)

As long as you continue your discussion about the London office and see a point in it, my accusation of you being disrespectful to me and people like me will stand.   :odd

What do you think ? That I type bullshit when I get offended by seeing bullshit? I don't.   :moon

This was my way of saying that your discussion about this office being in London and you getting offended by that is of the same level as me getting offended when you say something like that about fans like me. You think that there is a point in it but there isn't any and when you (or I) argue that "No there is something wrong in this, can't you see?" then people on the other side think of it to be a discussion with a hollow reasoning and then there are the people in the middle of it all who do not feel any of these extreme emotions of giving a fuck and not giving one who try to figure out what the fuss is all about and eventually pick a side and work their assess off to prove their points which they think can contribute to the discussion and there by making a "strong" case.

This thread has gone too far with no point just like my argument of you being disrespectful to me which is only 4 to 5 posts old.


I never use a smiley as a decoy.

 :)


« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 03:56:33 pm by Latenight Surfer »
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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #651 on: October 17, 2014, 03:36:43 pm »
How this has gotten to 17 pages is beyond me.  You've got to love international breaks....

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #652 on: October 17, 2014, 03:37:43 pm »
Yet any old idiot can do it apparently.

Well, given it's been in Boston up to now without even a moment of complaining from anyone what so ever and with great success, it would apparently there is simply an alternative.

Well, we bring in about £100m currently, compared to over £200m for the likes of United, Bayern, Madrid, etc.

This is offside.
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Offline CraigDS

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Offline kavah

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #654 on: October 17, 2014, 03:40:20 pm »
How this has gotten to 17 pages is beyond me.  You've got to love international breaks....

Ha ha

You know that is how ISIS got going.

Offline Pistolero

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #655 on: October 17, 2014, 03:47:37 pm »
How this has gotten to 17 pages is beyond me.  You've got to love international breaks....

Another poster who has read the thread title and the amount of pages - and not the actual thread.....read some of the contributions and you'll see that its one of the best debates that's been on here for a while


They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #656 on: October 17, 2014, 03:51:14 pm »
Of course that's the kind of people we want to deal with. Big business. Welcome to the world.

There is too much of this in my opinion.  Tacitly accepted the current status with removed, but seemingly educated quip about how the world really works.  Well, that's from the perspective of capital.  We do not have to internalize and repeat it. 

Tony Benn is often cited here in the US with the idea if we can find resources to exploit people, surely we can find the same ones to nurture them.  I wholly reject the notion that we must accept and become complicit with monied power's narrative of the lived experience.

Historically, this is the only way change is adopted, by small groups of committed people like ourselves who see the problems and cannot stand by and do nothing. 

*** btw this is not directed at Chakan, it is more of a language trigger than direct challenge to the person.
THIS IS ANFIELD SIGN:
It’s there to remind our lads who they’re playing for and to remind the opposition who they’re playing against! - Bill Shankly

We have everything we need - Jurgen Klopp

You need to get more wives mate, it fixes everything. Apart from then you have loads of wives, which is a nightmare.  -  Djozer

Offline kavah

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #657 on: October 17, 2014, 03:56:37 pm »
Trend is not destiny. Wise words once again.

By the way until this thread - I'm a bit word blind - have always thought your user name was trendyanthony so I pictured you as a mulleted Italian with a gold chain. Re-evaluation in progress.

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #658 on: October 17, 2014, 04:01:20 pm »
Another poster who has read the thread title and the amount of pages - and not the actual thread.....read some of the contributions and you'll see that its one of the best debates that's been on here for a while
I just spent the last hour reading the thread & still don't see how it has gotten to 17 pages  .  How about you stop jumping to conclusions?

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #659 on: October 17, 2014, 04:02:11 pm »
LFC’s Official Website announced this on 6 October 2014.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/171916-lfc-announces-london-office-opening

Amazing that the article on the official website solicited not one single comment to its article. 

RAWK on the other hand is now on 16 pages and counting.

Hence why RAWK stands for Repetitive Anal Winging Killjoys

Just Craig: I admire your resolve and patience in continuing to argue with the Dolts on this Thread.

Now, this is just the worst kind of devolution.  Granted Dave D did not do the conversation any favors, but to rehash the "why are we having this conversation" meme now seems like a slap in the face to so many who have contributed uniquely to this thread for all sides.

If we take this post for example, there are so many problems as to mask some of the real issues (especially for those who have not spent time reading the thread). 

1.  LFC's website's portrayal of the issue
2.  Putting down RAWK'ian analysis
3.  Siding, and Making Judgments as newcomer to the thread about the quality of the people here (as if you have read the content).

I, too, appreciate Craig, but not for putting up with us "Dolts", but for staying engaged, offering his opinion (which is valued) and having the sack to think for himself (even as I disagree with him).  Now, I could see less of the occasional "old man" slight stuff, but we all have our stuff. 

There is much more honor in this than coming in with an opinionated hard-on and posting a drive-by insults.   
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 04:17:25 pm by Trendisnotdestiny »
THIS IS ANFIELD SIGN:
It’s there to remind our lads who they’re playing for and to remind the opposition who they’re playing against! - Bill Shankly

We have everything we need - Jurgen Klopp

You need to get more wives mate, it fixes everything. Apart from then you have loads of wives, which is a nightmare.  -  Djozer

Offline Pistolero

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #660 on: October 17, 2014, 04:06:15 pm »
I just spent the last hour reading the thread & still don't see how it has gotten to 17 pages  .  How about you stop jumping to conclusions?

So you dont approve of the thread...but you spent an hour reading it?  ;D.....
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Offline Chakan

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #661 on: October 17, 2014, 04:08:31 pm »
There is too much of this in my opinion.  Tacitly accepted the current status with removed, but seemingly educated quip about how the world really works.  Well, that's from the perspective of capital.  We do not have to internalize and repeat it. 

Tony Benn is often cited here in the US with the idea if we can find resources to exploit people, surely we can find the same ones to nurture them.  I wholly reject the notion that we must accept and become complicit with monied power's narrative of the lived experience.

Historically, this is the only way change is adopted, by small groups of committed people like ourselves who see the problems and cannot stand by and do nothing. 

*** btw this is not directed at Chakan, it is more of a language trigger than direct challenge to the person.

But right now you are standing by and doing nothing about it? Have you organized protests and written letters and shown them that this will not stand? No , you're arguing about it on an internet forum.

Right now London is where is the money is. We're going where the money is.

We want to sell them our product. We go to them.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 04:10:20 pm by Chakan »

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #662 on: October 17, 2014, 04:09:20 pm »
So you dont approve of the thread...but you spent an hour reading it?  ;D.....

It would be better if you too spent some more time in reading the whole thread then maybe you can come up with a better conclusion.  :lickin
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Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #663 on: October 17, 2014, 04:09:54 pm »
As long as you continue your discussion about the London office and see a point in it, my accusation of you being disrespectful to me and people like me will stand.   :odd

What do you think ? That I type bullshit when I get offended by seeing bullshit? I don't.   :moon

This was my way of saying that your discussion about this office being in London and you getting offended by that is of the same level as me getting offended when you say something like that about fans like me. You think that there is a point in it but there isn't any and when you (or I) argue that "No there is something wrong in this, can't you see?" then people on the other side think of it to be a discussion with a hollow reasoning and then there are the people in the middle of it all who do not feel any of these extreme emotions of giving a fuck and not giving one who try to figure out what the fuss is all about and eventually pick a side and work their assess off to prove their points which they think can contribute to the discussion and there by making a "strong" case.

This thread has gone too far with no point just like my argument of you being disrespectful to me which is only 4 to 5 posts old.


I never use a smiley as a decoy.

 :)

Help us understand this "thread too far" narrative as my interest in this "why now" response is riveted upon your above post.

Why is too far again?
THIS IS ANFIELD SIGN:
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We have everything we need - Jurgen Klopp

You need to get more wives mate, it fixes everything. Apart from then you have loads of wives, which is a nightmare.  -  Djozer

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #664 on: October 17, 2014, 04:10:58 pm »
There is too much of this in my opinion.  Tacitly accepted the current status with removed, but seemingly educated quip about how the world really works.  Well, that's from the perspective of capital.  We do not have to internalize and repeat it. 

Tony Benn is often cited here in the US with the idea if we can find resources to exploit people, surely we can find the same ones to nurture them.  I wholly reject the notion that we must accept and become complicit with monied power's narrative of the lived experience.

Historically, this is the only way change is adopted, by small groups of committed people like ourselves who see the problems and cannot stand by and do nothing. 

*** btw this is not directed at Chakan, it is more of a language trigger than direct challenge to the person.

And Trotsky said that socialism cannot survive in one country alone; if asked, I'm sure he'd agree that one football club cannot reject the trappings of modern corporate football alone and remain competitive.

And it must be said, our club schmoozing with corporate sponsors is way, way down the list of the evils of capitalism.
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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #665 on: October 17, 2014, 04:11:22 pm »
Help us understand this "thread too far" narrative as my interest in now piqued.

17 pages and counting
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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #666 on: October 17, 2014, 04:15:16 pm »
Trend is not destiny. Wise words once again.

By the way until this thread - I'm a bit word blind - have always thought your user name was trendyanthony so I pictured you as a mulleted Italian with a gold chain. Re-evaluation in progress.

You found me!  You finally found me. :D    I guess the witness protection program will have to move me from Kansas :)

btw, this is a google search and is not me

« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 04:50:29 pm by Trendisnotdestiny »
THIS IS ANFIELD SIGN:
It’s there to remind our lads who they’re playing for and to remind the opposition who they’re playing against! - Bill Shankly

We have everything we need - Jurgen Klopp

You need to get more wives mate, it fixes everything. Apart from then you have loads of wives, which is a nightmare.  -  Djozer

Online mgs88

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #667 on: October 17, 2014, 04:21:48 pm »

So you dont approve of the thread...but you spent an hour reading it?  ;D.....

Like I said the boredom of an international break and a Friday off work... Thank god we play real football this weekend haha.

Offline TSC

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #668 on: October 17, 2014, 04:28:37 pm »
I just spent the last hour reading the thread & still don't see how it has gotten to 17 pages  .  How about you stop jumping to conclusions?

If you've spent all that time reading it and still wonder about the point of it then simply avoid it.  Frankly I'm surprised you wasted an hour on a thread which holds little interest.  Usually takes me a couple of posts to exit a thread I find uninteresting.

Offline kcbworth

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #669 on: October 17, 2014, 04:30:29 pm »
As long as you continue your discussion about the London office and see a point in it, my accusation of you being disrespectful to me and people like me will stand.   :odd

What do you think ? That I type bullshit when I get offended by seeing bullshit? I don't.   :moon

This was my way of saying that your discussion about this office being in London and you getting offended by that is of the same level as me getting offended when you say something like that about fans like me. You think that there is a point in it but there isn't any and when you (or I) argue that "No there is something wrong in this, can't you see?" then people on the other side think of it to be a discussion with a hollow reasoning and then there are the people in the middle of it all who do not feel any of these extreme emotions of giving a fuck and not giving one who try to figure out what the fuss is all about and eventually pick a side and work their assess off to prove their points which they think can contribute to the discussion and there by making a "strong" case.

This thread has gone too far with no point just like my argument of you being disrespectful to me which is only 4 to 5 posts old.


I never use a smiley as a decoy.

 :)




I'm 100% with you on this

Online mgs88

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #670 on: October 17, 2014, 04:31:53 pm »

If you've spent all that time reading it and still wonder about the point of it then simply avoid it.  Frankly I'm surprised you wasted an hour on a thread which holds little interest.  Usually takes me a couple of posts to exit a thread I find uninteresting.

Nothing better to do kept me reading. But I will be staying clear now...

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #671 on: October 17, 2014, 04:32:30 pm »
But right now you are standing by and doing nothing about it? Have you organized protests and written letters and shown them that this will not stand? No , you're arguing about it on an internet forum.

Right now London is where is the money is. We're going where the money is.

We want to sell them our product. We go to them.

Chakan, this is a common misunderstanding of how action works. 

First, I am sitting not standing (although, it would be better for my posture if I were standing by the keyboard).

Second, having this discussion is a form of action; its cognitive, formation of arguments, and isolating the most productive elements. Its called critical thinking, and writing on a blog is what millions of people do every day as they begin action or share the daily action.

Three, creating change is a process.  We all come to at different times, points in our life circumstances, and with different skills

Four, this thread did not exist two weeks ago.  However, the feelings Timbo and others write about have.  We should be afforded the ability to sort this out as a process rather than simplistic question --------> what have you done about this Mr. Expert resistance guy (especially as means to shut down further conversation).

Five, I would be more than happy to contribute my efforts here for Liverpool FC.  I may be a contradiction, living in Kansas City, but I would be happy to serve.  So, do not diminish my passion for LFC by asking "what have you done for me lately" -  It is obvious by my posting here is that I do care about the club.

Six, Liverpool FC are more than product.  This product is already known and celebrated around world.  Cozying up to the financial elite in London is an excuse for some other agenda. 
THIS IS ANFIELD SIGN:
It’s there to remind our lads who they’re playing for and to remind the opposition who they’re playing against! - Bill Shankly

We have everything we need - Jurgen Klopp

You need to get more wives mate, it fixes everything. Apart from then you have loads of wives, which is a nightmare.  -  Djozer

Offline Chakan

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #672 on: October 17, 2014, 04:41:17 pm »
Six, Liverpool FC are more than product.  This product is already known and celebrated around world.  Cozying up to the financial elite in London is an excuse for some other agenda. 

I understand change is a process, it's not going to change overnight (if at all for that matter).

To me, you and any supporter in the world Liverpool is more than product, in fact I don't even consider it a product at all. To anyone who is doing business with us financially, sponsorship and whatnot, Liverpool is product plain and simple. If that product is doing well people want to be associated with it, if that product isn't delivering it will get dropped. If it makes no financial sense to a business to be associated with that product then they aren't going to do invest it in or lend their name to it.

I'm not sure what other agenda you're alluding to there?

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #673 on: October 17, 2014, 04:41:32 pm »
And Trotsky said that socialism cannot survive in one country alone; if asked, I'm sure he'd agree that one football club cannot reject the trappings of modern corporate football alone and remain competitive.

And it must be said, our club schmoozing with corporate sponsors is way, way down the list of the evils of capitalism.

Actually, it is pretty connected if you look at the financial centres in London, club banks, and their practices, but I digress. 

There is concept called Gresham's Dynamic that is relevant here.  This is when "bad actors" in the market place (oligopolies or financial companies breaking the rules etc.) push out or it make it impossible for "good actors" to do business without replicating the business practices.   This is a concept bandied around in heterodox econ departments across the country.   

Essentially, the business networks created from schmoozing push us farther down the rathole of corporate ownership, and there is always the same meme -----> we need more money.   Like Tony Benn said, if we can find money to exploit, we can find money to nurture. 
This is not a difficult concept.  We know where this leads.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 04:54:35 pm by Trendisnotdestiny »
THIS IS ANFIELD SIGN:
It’s there to remind our lads who they’re playing for and to remind the opposition who they’re playing against! - Bill Shankly

We have everything we need - Jurgen Klopp

You need to get more wives mate, it fixes everything. Apart from then you have loads of wives, which is a nightmare.  -  Djozer

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #674 on: October 17, 2014, 04:49:53 pm »
I understand change is a process, it's not going to change overnight (if at all for that matter).

To me, you and any supporter in the world Liverpool is more than product, in fact I don't even consider it a product at all. To anyone who is doing business with us financially, sponsorship and whatnot, Liverpool is product plain and simple. If that product is doing well people want to be associated with it, if that product isn't delivering it will get dropped. If it makes no financial sense to a business to be associated with that product then they aren't going to do invest it in or lend their name to it.

I'm not sure what other agenda you're alluding to there?

And you have touched upon the inherent dichotomy of our problem on this thread.   Its the notion between interdependence and  segregation (of the people of LFC and product).  Both need to be strong to be a sustainable winning organization while retaining the core elements of what makes the city, people, and culture so special.  Inclusiveness is a part of this.
   
THIS IS ANFIELD SIGN:
It’s there to remind our lads who they’re playing for and to remind the opposition who they’re playing against! - Bill Shankly

We have everything we need - Jurgen Klopp

You need to get more wives mate, it fixes everything. Apart from then you have loads of wives, which is a nightmare.  -  Djozer

Offline Chakan

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #675 on: October 17, 2014, 04:58:10 pm »
And you have touched upon the inherent dichotomy of our problem on this thread.   Its the notion between interdependence and  segregation (of the people of LFC and product).  Both need to be strong to be a sustainable winning organization while retaining the core elements of what makes the city, people, and culture so special.  Inclusiveness is a part of this.
   
So you think opening up a commercial branch in London is segregating the Liverpool brand? Now if we were moving our HQ from Liverpool to London then yes I would agree with you, but we're not. We opening up a commercial branch in London. Which means instead of being in Boston we're now represented in London.

As stated numerous times, London in where the money is. It's an ease of use for many of the companies we want to deal with. It's a convenience for them not to have to fly to Liverpool or use the train or use whatever mode of transport they need to get to Liverpool. Most of the companies we probably want to deal with , more than likely have an office setup somewhere in London. So it would be a convenience for them to organize a meeting at their offices in London. Or come to our office in London. We're competing with Arsenal, Chelsea, Man United who already have offices in London for the signature of a business that probably have an office already in London. So to make us more appealing as a company/brand/product we're opening a convenient office in London to deal with people there.

I don't see what's so hard to grasp.

Offline Latenight Surfer

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #676 on: October 17, 2014, 05:04:16 pm »
I'm 100% with you on this

Thanks mate.
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Offline redmark

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #677 on: October 17, 2014, 05:08:00 pm »
Actually, it is pretty connected if you look at the financial centres in London, club banks, and their practices, but I digress. 

There is concept called Gresham's Dynamic that is relevant here.  This is when "bad actors" in the market place (oligopolies or financial companies breaking the rules etc.) push out or it make it impossible for "good actors" to do business without replicating the business practices.   This is a concept bandied around in heterodox econ departments across the country.   

Essentially, the business networks created from schmoozing push us farther down the rathole of corporate ownership, and there is always the same meme -----> we need more money.   Like Tony Benn said, if we can find money to exploit, we can find money to nurture. 
This is not a difficult concept.  We know where this leads.

And Tony Benn would (quite rightly) spend that money on education, housing and the NHS. It's not the same money. It's not remotely the same amount of money. It's arguably not even 'real' money, just one corporate vanity project funding another corporate vanity project.

Dunkin' Donuts have a few million to spend on some vanity project (and football sponsorship is vanity). They're going to spend it on us or another club. If we said "please don't give us the money, spend it on better wages for your workers or better prices to your suppliers", they'd give it to Chelsea etc instead.

That's the other point here - in global financial terms, we're talking miniscule amounts of money. Football, to counter the modern cliché, is still pretty small business.

There are campaigns to fight about global capitalism. There are campaigns about corporate tax avoidance undermining UK social provision and, ultimately suppressing wages by forcing austerity measures.

(and literally as I type this, a text from unicef appealing for ebola relief funds).

Taking a stand on corporate sponsorships is miniscule stuff. Off to donate to unicef.
Stop whining : https://spiritofshankly.com/ : https://thefsa.org.uk/join/ : https://reclaimourgame.com/
The focus now should not be on who the owners are, but limits on what owners can do without formal supporter agreement. At all clubs.

Offline thisyearisouryear

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #678 on: October 17, 2014, 05:15:08 pm »
I have probably never contributed to any thread as much as I have to this one. But I really think every nook and corner that could have been explored, has been. There is no way there will ever be any common ground on this. Whenever I come back, I see the same points being repeated again and again.

And Dave D - don't dilute what Timbo and others have so painstakingly tried to put across so far.

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Re: So the commercial epicentre of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh
« Reply #679 on: October 17, 2014, 05:21:04 pm »
Just checking in...groundhog day.
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