Topic: So the commercial office of LIVERPOOL FC will be London huh

[Chakan]

@Trend Answer these 2 questions for me.

1. Would you still support Liverpool if we were relegated to division 3?

2. Would Dunkin Donuts still throw $20m per year at us if we got relegated to division 3?

[thisyearisouryear]

@Trend Answer these 2 questions for me.

1. Would you still support Liverpool if we were relegated to division 3?

2. Would Dunkin Donuts still throw $20m per year at us if we got relegated to division 3?

I know it is not for me but :
1. Yes
2. No

PS Sorry I am bored of making the same points again and again. This seemed rather more interesting.

[thisyearisouryear]

And you have touched upon the inherent dichotomy of our problem on this thread.   Its the notion between interdependence and  segregation (of the people of LFC and product).  Both need to be strong to be a sustainable winning organization while retaining the core elements of what makes the city, people, and culture so special.  Inclusiveness is a part of this.
 

This is probably the first point of the 'other side' in this debate that I agree with. But I feel to be able to do that, first we need to get to a position of strength . Meaning become a force that we were in past. And unfortunately to do that, we first need to get the monies. I get your point, trust me i do, but I feel right now we are playing catch up. We are not in a position to dictate terms as we wish. We need to compromise a bit right now I guess.

[The 5th Benitle]

Please stop saying this...it makes my teeth hurt

Sorry, my bad.

[Dave D]

Quite a few people with their knickers in a twist in this thread.

I would be grateful if the FSG shills could tell me which of the names below will be moving to London and if those jobs will be replaced.

I find it bizarre that the chief commercial officer will be moving to an office that's not the commercial HQ. But if people with connections to FSG are telling me that the Commercial HQ/Head Office/Office will still be in Liverpool, then who am I to argue.

Here's the quote from billy again.

We’re targeting early November for the offices to actually open. A handful of staff are in London already and more will be moving down from our Liverpool partnerships team.

[Timbo's Goals]

As long as you continue your discussion about the London office and see a point in it, my accusation of you being disrespectful to me and people like me will stand.   

What do you think ? That I type bullshit when I get offended by seeing bullshit? I don't.   

This was my way of saying that your discussion about this office being in London and you getting offended by that is of the same level as me getting offended when you say something like that about fans like me. You think that there is a point in it but there isn't any and when you (or I) argue that "No there is something wrong in this, can't you see?" then people on the other side think of it to be a discussion with a hollow reasoning and then there are the people in the middle of it all who do not feel any of these extreme emotions of giving a fuck and not giving one who try to figure out what the fuss is all about and eventually pick a side and work their assess off to prove their points which they think can contribute to the discussion and there by making a "strong" case.

This thread has gone too far with no point just like my argument of you being disrespectful to me which is only 4 to 5 posts old.


I never use a smiley as a decoy.

 

You know what?

I've read your post half a dozen times and I still can't make head nor fuckin tail of it. My limited brain capacity simply won't compute it. Either that or it's fuckin gobbledeygook.

But on the 50/50 chance you're still offended please accept my sincere apologies as no offence was intended to any poor soul who happened to be born outside of Liverpool. Even Kansas City.   

[The 5th Benitle]

Quite a few people with their knickers in a twist in this thread.

With respect, that's because for some reason you seem to be under the impression that the LFC office is moving from Liverpool to London, which is utterly wrong in every regard.

The commercial team are moving from Boston to London.The main LFC headquarters remains in Liverpool.

[CraigDS]

I find it bizarre that the chief commercial officer will be moving to an office that's not the commercial HQ.

You seem to be confusing corporate and commercial.

The London office will be the commercial office.

However that makes up just a part of the entire business that is LFC, which all falls under the control of the Corporate HQ, which is headed by Ayre and based in Liverpool, and is moving nowhere.

[Timbo's Goals]

Dave Dee/5thB et al [except for the fella I can't make head nor tail of] 

One thing that would be ridiculous would be if we were all debating [endlessly droning on as several helpful fleeting visitors have so helpfully pointed out] a sense of umbrage that had no basis whatsoever. So just to clarify, here's the extracts from the Echo piece which caused me to oscillate around the room. 

I have interpreted it, I believe correctly.

Hogan is the main man for the commercial business as well as for several other by no means insignificant operations [see highlighted bits]. As such this means by definition that the entire commercial operation [as well as those other roles] will have a London HQ and will be run from there.



The Reds’ chief commercial officer has recently relocated from Boston to the UK to lead the club’s new London office.

Since his appointment in May 2012, Hogan’s time has been divided between Merseyside and Fenway Sports Group’s headquarters in Boston.

However, Liverpool’s owners have now decided to have him based permanently in London in order to strengthen ties with current commercial partners and also to attract more new deals.

“It’s an important step forward for the club and for the commercial department,” said Hogan, who has moved to the capital with his wife and four children.

“We’re targeting early November for the offices to actually open. A handful of staff are in London already and more will be moving down from our Liverpool partnerships team.

He has overall responsibility for the Reds’ sponsorship, ticketing and hospitality sales, retail and merchandise, tours and friendlies as well as the club’s soccer schools.

[Chakan]

I don't think anyone has argued that. Dave D seems to think we are closing something down in Liverpool and moving it to London. Which isn't happening, in anyway shape or form.

Liverpool Football Club HQ will be still be in Liverpool, the commercial side of the business will be in London.

[CraigDS]

Just because he is the head of those things and based there does not mean all the others who work under him will be. There will be plenty of people on here who are the head of whatever for their business they work for, yet could be managing people who are up and down the country. I know in the past I have managed people across 5 different locations and been based somewhere totally separate to all of them.

It's clear some who were based in Liverpool will move down there, the article says as much, and that is unfortunate, however it takes nothing away from where this company is run from on a daily basis, and that is between the Liverpool City Centre offices and Melwood.

[Dave D]

With respect, that's because for some reason you seem to be under the impression that the LFC office is moving from Liverpool to London, which is utterly wrong in every regard.

The commercial team are moving from Boston to London.The main LFC headquarters remains in Liverpool.

You seem to be confusing corporate and commercial.

The London office will be the commercial office.

However that makes up just a part of the entire business that is LFC, which all falls under the control of the Corporate HQ, which is headed by Ayre and based in Liverpool, and is moving nowhere.

If you're both being feed information from the club, come out and say it. Us dolts only have quotes from Billy to go on here.

Now, any chance on answering my question above on how many job losses in Liverpool this move will create?

[CraigDS]

If you're both being feed information from the club, come out and say it. Us dolts only have quotes from Billy to go on here.

Now, any chance on answering my question above on how many job losses in Liverpool this move will create?

No job losses.

[Chakan]

If you're both being feed information from the club, come out and say it. Us dolts only have quotes from Billy to go on here.

Now, any chance on answering my question above on how many job losses in Liverpool this move will create?

0

How many do you think there will be?

[Dave D]

0

How many do you think there will be?

0 hopefully.

0 job losses and 0 jobs taken out of the local economy.

[Chakan]

0 hopefully.

0 job losses and 0 jobs taken out of the local economy.

Ok so we're in agreement then. I think. So it's a non issue.

[The 5th Benitle]

If you're both being feed information from the club, come out and say it. Us dolts only have quotes from Billy to go on here.

Now, any chance on answering my question above on how many job losses in Liverpool this move will create?

We aren't being fed information from the club, we are just reading properly.

[CraigDS]

0 hopefully.

0 job losses and 0 jobs taken out of the local economy.

There may be some taken out of the local economy, however does appear he will be building a team down there according to the bit that was on the offy site.

I think it's a little short termism to look at any jobs moving to the London office as a negative too. Yeah definitely in the short term some jobs have been moved from the local area, however if the London office is a success then given approx 60% of our revenue is spent on wages (vast majority of which are to employees in the local area) the amount spent on wages in the local area should rise dramatically.

[CraigDS]

We aren't being fed information from the club, we are just reading properly.

Well, I'm not being fed information....

[Timbo's Goals]

I don't think anyone has argued that. Dave D seems to think we are closing something down in Liverpool and moving it to London. Which isn't happening, in anyway shape or form.

Liverpool Football Club HQ will be still be in Liverpool, the commercial side of the business will be in London.

Absolutely. Totally agreed except to add that any commercial enterprise in Liverpool is clearly going to be downsized as staff move to London.

And just to clarify my own stance a tad more.

I'm all for a London office. Totally for it. Indeed, it would be fucking ridiculous and a dereliction of responsible management not to have a commercial office in the most important financial centre not just of UK but arguably the world. And I'm all for Hogan and his team staying down in London at that office for whatever periods are commensurate with any deals they are compelled to make down there.

Where I differ so fundamentally from the proposed establishment is that I see no reason at all why the base for any such ventures down in London cannot be masterminded from Liverpool City centre and concluded each time in view of the Liver Birds/river mersey. I just do not see the problem.

I'm no Billy Big Bucks but I have worked for various firms in places away from their head office when my base has been the head office. Often I could be away from the head office for weeks on end.

The point myself and others are making is that no matter what volume of work [wining/dining = work - go figure] has to be conducted down in the capital it can surely be made to work quite readily with Hogan and his team operating out of a Liverpool city centre base. The psychology in such a decision is surely obvious. A world renowned Liverpool footballing institution operating its entire business out of its actual/spiritual city home. 

[4pool]

How can he best represent our city when he doesn't know the first thing about it?

If you were asked to do the same thing wouldn't you want to live there? Experience it? Meet the people? Go to melwood, town on a Friday, Kirkby, halewood, Birkenhead. Walk up oakfield road on a non-match day and think about what this club is all about? Frankly I'm embarrassed for the fella not wanting any of that.

If I were asked to do it, hell yeah i'd move to Liverpool.

But i'm a Liverpool supporter and have been for 60 years. Mum is from Kirkdale, Gran is buried in Anfield cemetery, so i'd have no problems.


Then again, you're asking the wrong person. The previous Company I worked for I started as a regional sales manager with my own area ( Pacific Northwest/Alaska and Western Canada.) So i was remotely based. Then promoted to the Dallas sales and marketing office which was an office not anywhere near Corporate HQ ( Southern Illinois).

Our office flourished but after 15 years Corporate decided to close the Taj Mahal ( at least that's what the locals back at the plant called it  ). I relocated to 55 miles away in Evansville, Indiana and commuted 110 miles every day. Then received another offer back in Dallas and moved back in 2000.

In talking to the VP of Engineering back in Illinois recently, he bemoaned the closing of the office, the loss of all the people we had, and that things never were the same. Business has suffered and those now heading that brand have little clue. We excelled because we had people with industry knowledge and then they turned to people in a similar industry but not the specific one we were in thinking they could do just as well. ( i could go into more detail but don't want to hijack the thread).


So I can see the benefits of having an office with the right people not needing to be based in the home office. You have to produce for the company and justify why that office is there. I'd heavily suspect FSG has looked at the numbers and potential and made their decision to open the London office. If it doesn't produce it will be closed with fanfare stating it's time to move back to Liverpool.   

[CraigDS]

A world renowned Liverpool footballing institution operating its entire business out of its actual/spiritual city home.

Not it's entire business. A part of it's business for reasons you've just explained yourself.

As Ayre has said, the potential sponsors will 100% be coming up here, but the initial leg work is down there - and hopefully that initial leg work is being carried out every single day, so it makes sense for them to be there every single day and not commuting from up here. I'd rather they spent an extra 20 hours a week working for us, than commuting.

[Timbo's Goals]

. If it doesn't produce it will be closed with fanfare stating it's time to move back to Liverpool.   

Ha ha.

Like your style 4P.

We could then have the same debate only in reverse.

Baggsy being the fella I can't make head nor tail of

 

[Dave D]

Fair enough lads, it's Friday evening, time to start drinking.

I don't know how some people can be so sure about certain things without having inside information.

I'll wait for FSG's reply to the open letter that's being composed.

[Chakan]

<snip>

I think I tried to explain this on the other page. We're competing with Man United, Arsenal and Chelsea who already have an office in London, we want to be right amongst the potential options. Right now we're situated all over the place in the commercial market. Some are in London, some are in Boston , some are Liverpool. Most of the clients we want to woo, I would hazard a guess , would have an office in London. Maybe i'm wrong, I don't think so, but I could be. So I guess FSG looked at it and said we want to consolidate the commercial aspects of the business, where's the best place to do that.

Considering commercially , the other 3 teams are far ahead of us , we need a base of operations. Why should companies have to fly into Liverpool to begin a discussion on sponsoring Liverpool or throwing millions at us. Why shouldn't they have the convenience of being able to schedule a meeting at 2'o clock on a Thursday afternoon without their assistant having to check flights times/train tickets/hotel rooms/what have you.

We want to make it the easiest possible situation for the companies to give us their money. London makes it convenient for them. Liverpool doesn't. I don't care how technological we've become when you are trying to get someone to give you their money you need to be in their face selling.

On the flip side, why should we keep flying/training/driving up to London to see clients? I have no idea how much that costs, but surely that adds up?

[4pool]

Ha ha.

Like your style 4P.

We could then have the same debate only in reverse.

Baggsy being the fella I can't make head nor tail of

 

 

Most offices are closed due to failure to reach or exceed targets.

At my previous Company we exceeded our sales goals every year but one of those 15. ( 7th or 8th year we were there. iirc) That year we sold more than the previous year but missed our goal by about 1%. The closing of our office was more political than a reflection of failure to achieve targets.

[Anfield Ed]

If it enables them to do their job better then who cares where the location of the commercial department is?

I've been reading this thread and keeping an open mind to both arguments but a couple of things:-

1) Are we taking business away from Liverpool by making this move?

2) Have FSG done this on a whim? Or have they done their research like all competent organisations do. After doing their research and making this move to London, do they believe this will enable us to attract more business.

3) Have they hidden this piece of information from the public and misled any supporters about this and in doing so increasing the suspicious nature of the supporters?

The answers are no we are not taking away business from Liverpool in regards to the commercial department. No FSG have not taken this decision on a whim and would have done their research on this. No they haven't hidden or tried to hide this information from us. They have been up front about this too us.

If we attract more business by having the commercial department in London which in turn helps the club have more money to make us more self sufficient to buy players or increase our resources then that is a decision I am fine with.

I really don't get the aggression to this move. I would if they made the move from Liverpool to London but they haven't. True I'm not a scouser but I have been to the city many many times so I hope I understand the club and the city and its values and beliefs.

But in this regard and in this instance I do not see the major issue.

I await Timbo and Dave's abuse

[Latenight Surfer]

You know what?

I've read your post half a dozen times and I still can't make head nor fuckin tail of it. My limited brain capacity simply won't compute it. Either that or it's fuckin gobbledeygook.

But on the 50/50 chance you're still offended please accept my sincere apologies as no offence was intended to any poor soul who happened to be born outside of Liverpool. Even Kansas City.   

I don't know about your brain mate, but if someone else too cannot understand what I've said, THEN I'll explain what I said because I think everyone did except you.

Now as far as your apology is concerned, I accept it mate and sorry to you from my side if you think that I have been rude to you in anyway with my replies and for the fact that you had to read one of them a half-a-dozen times and still not understand what I said. 

[Black Bull Nova]

I'm just a sad bastard who resents any more money entering the swill pool down there, knowing that some money (e.g. The shop that sells the light bulbs to the office being owned by a Chelsea fan) might end up at Stamford Bridge is enough for me to take a natural position alongside my chip.

That's how sad I am.

[Chakan]

I'm just a sad bastard who resents any more money entering the swill pool down there, knowing that some money (e.g. The shop that sells the light bulbs to the office being owned by a Chelsea fan) might end up at Stamford Bridge is enough for me to take a natural position alongside my chip.

That's how sad I am.

That's a fine position to take mate, and there's nothing wrong with feeling like that, but end of the day that doesn't bring any money to the commercial side of Liverpool FC. That's what they care about.

[Black Bull Nova]

That's a fine position to take mate, and there's nothing wrong with feeling like that, but end of the day that doesn't bring any money to the commercial side of Liverpool FC. That's what they care about.

I know, that's business, my gripe probably extends far past this particular thread. I think its a sympton rather than a problem in itself in that this is the only country I know where business people, celebrities and tourists often think no further than one single location, not even the French have that one.

[john_mac]

Fuck it, there'll be a few migrating South in the morning!

Up the Pool

[SlowRap]

On the contrary, I think, with regards to the arguments being made here about investing in the city itself, creating jobs and wealth. If those are the criteria, the manufacture of Liverpool FC merchandise, shirts etc within the city of Liverpool, employing hundreds of people, would be far more significant than the location of a commercial operation employing a small number of highly paid commercial executives and a few admin support staff.

I still haven't had a response from the moral brigade regarding this. Why can't we hire locals to make and sell all our kits, in a factory built in Liverpool? Why do we outsource this to places with cheap materials and labour? Think of the jobs this'll create.

Replace the "cheap materials and labour" with "close to business clients and transport links" and I do not see much of a difference, I argue that making our kits in Liverpool is far more morally justified argument than having our marketing base here.  What's the evidence to suggest that all the commercial operations are currently happening on Liverpool's soil?

[Johnny Foreigner]

Did you even read my reply?

How the hell can you come away from reading it and STILL think the HQ is moving from Liverpool?

Read this...

THE LIVERPOOL FC HEADQUARTERS IS NOT MOVING FROM LIVERPOOL.

Sorry mate and I say this with all due respect..

The top dog is moving to london and parts of staff has been announced to move down to london. In any organisation of size - this means the commercial HQ of LFC is in London..Its more than closeness to airports and sponsors; its a different way of thinking..

The same way of back and forth happens in most large organisations where the companys origin is considered to be in the backwaters.. It takes strength to fight back the yuppies and johnnycomelatelys..

[Johnny Foreigner]

No job losses.

No job losses.

Please...  Positions are being moved from Liverpool to London.. 2.08 Euston-lime street on the best connection both ways..

Two months best case; standard procedure - and you get a different org.chart

[Johnny Foreigner]

The top dog is Ian Ayre he's in Liverpool.

The commercial branch of Liverpool is setting up shop in London. The commercial branch was in London, Boston, Liverpool, they all now going to be in London.

The top dog is Ian Ayre he's in Liverpool.

The commercial branch of Liverpool is setting up shop in London. The commercial branch was in London, Boston, Liverpool, they all now going to be in London.

Top dog Ian Ayre ?

Billy working with FSG for 10+ years and closing the big deals..

Its corporate and its corporate america with its goods and its bads.. ian ayre will be joining sterling under the bus when its suitable.. after all its only business..

[Trendisnotdestiny]

That's a fine position to take mate, and there's nothing wrong with feeling like that, but end of the day that doesn't bring any money to the commercial side of Liverpool FC. That's what they care about.

It seems like you have articulated their position pretty well (as have so many others).  Could you help me understand which sponsors are more in play than before (now that we have this lovely new commercial hub in London)?

Who are the prize fish we want that require us to be in London?  Specifics? Guesses?  Absurd possibilities?  I am really asking.

Agree with Timbo here (office fine, but commercial operation centre rides up my backside like an Everton bullies' wedgie.

[CraigDS]

Sorry mate and I say this with all due respect..

The top dog is moving to london and parts of staff has been announced to move down to london. In any organisation of size - this means the commercial HQ of LFC is in London..Its more than closeness to airports and sponsors; its a different way of thinking..

The same way of back and forth happens in most large organisations where the companys origin is considered to be in the backwaters.. It takes strength to fight back the yuppies and johnnycomelatelys..

Ian Ayre, twice promoted by FSG, is top dog.

You may want to try and make it out otherwise but you're wrong.

[Solomon Grundy]

I can't believe people are still going on about this.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

If I had a pound for every time this comment was posted, I could buy the thread a pint, mate.